01:40:53 barrydekale (L15 MDFi) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 3199: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Orc:1) 02:36:01 <11Odds> Piety logging tables are probably still useful for a while to track the effect of piety changes, right? I have a PR to improve them a little which I probably may as well merge unless we want to rip them out soon 02:51:03 <04dracoomega> Yeah, it seemed probably still worth having the data around for now, which is why I left them there 02:51:19 <04dracoomega> Should do a general review at some point before release 02:52:05 <04dracoomega> Feel free to go ahead and tweak them as you wish. 03:07:37 03CrawlOdds02 07* 0.35-a0-568-ge122667498: Track berserker piety 10(10 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e12266749850 03:07:37 03CrawlOdds02 07* 0.35-a0-569-gd0fdbe724a: Split out max piety wastage for logging 10(10 weeks ago, 6 files, 26+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0fdbe724a2b 03:07:37 03CrawlOdds02 07* 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e: Track tithing piety 10(10 weeks ago, 3 files, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c56e8410ee3 03:35:08 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:29:09 New branch created: pull/5310 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/5310 05:29:09 03Davidescu Victor02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/5310 * 0.35-a0-571-gcf0d443098: fix door breaking logic 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf0d443098f9 14:13:54 New branch created: pull/5311 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/5311 14:13:54 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/5311 * 0.35-a0-571-g691058c173: Rework Pandemonium into a finite branch 10(9 hours ago, 16 files, 170+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/691058c1734f 14:13:54 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/5311 * 0.35-a0-572-g5321eefcb7: Always generate a Pan lord lair in Pan 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 14+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5321eefcb707 14:15:25 <11Odds> Having (mostly) actually done that, I'm a little worried it's cruel. 11 levels is a long time to be railroaded if you realised you made a mistake... 14:29:14 Is there a design doc anywhere about the pan rework? I'm curious what its motivations are 14:29:28 Or at least, pan "change" 14:34:20 devwiki maybe; it's been discussed for several years at least 14:36:47 I'm a little surprised it's 11; I thought one of the points was to compress things 14:37:46 <11Odds> I believe the current average to get the runes is around 14 (though this also makes the non-big-four levels rather less shippable 14:38:31 <11Odds> (And when I say I believe it I mean I think I read it in a code comment today) 14:39:21 (meanwhile I'm a bit bemused that I initially typed "ll"; apparently I regressed to the 70s for a moment) 15:01:47 Interesting. The main reason I ask is that the idea of some sort of infinite level-based branch (i.e., not the abyss and zig doesn't count) is something that I know at least one other person views as desirable content-wise. (Personally I don't feel too strongly about it, but I am more partial to the idea of having at least some sort of "infinite content") 15:04:38 (On the other hand, grindy = bad) 15:21:26 <06regret-⸸nde※> Some of the public notes were from last version, as this has ballooned a lot in scope: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.34-Development-and-Release-Plan#hell-pan-roulette-regret-index-dracoomega 15:21:31 <04dracoomega> Well, we do explicitly warn people when entering, and as you say, the current time to exit can already often be longer. (I assume the code comment was assuming full exploration of floors also, which people often rarely do. Whereas now, you can at least count on progress to the exit being found in the Pan lord vault as soon as you see it.) 15:22:00 <04dracoomega> (Like, doesn't the message say something explicit about it possibly taking a long time before you're able to leave?) 15:26:01 <06regret-⸸nde※> The Abyss and Zigs both already feel like they're much closer to Actual Infinite Content, compared to mid-D layouts with random colours and mostly fairly old enemies. There's a certain kind of ideal and appeal to infinite randomly configured floors, but it concides poorly with both trying to make it part of extended (which emphasizes dives in the Hells already) and with being so thematically focused on just demons. (The 15:26:01 infinite brands of indistinguishable oatmeal aisle problem manifests in lots of other games already, after all.) 15:26:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> When the Roulette is started up and this is meant to replace the Hells in 50% of extended games, there's a lot of differing systems planned make each Pan floor fairly notably different from one another without anticipating people just skipping past it as hard as possible, especially when such enemy set revisions & floor rules & tiles & new terrain options mostly shouldn't actually change the current four rune floors. 15:39:39 Ahhh interesting, and thanks for the link! That all makes a lot of sense. 15:42:26 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e (34) 16:15:45 <09hellmonk> Finite pan real? 16:37:50 <06regret-⸸nde※> I've still got to do some work to convert hellion island and the others like it into subvaults of the last floor of thus-finite Pan before I'd push that at all. 16:39:49 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Draco and I are planning on splitting parts of Hell-Pan roulette between 0.35 and 0.36 rather than holding everything up on the full thing being finished, with a small chunk of Pan changes thus being planned for 0.35.) 16:46:58 (OT: If you get a mutation that caused you to grow a new hand while in whichever of Hell and Pan were picked for that seed, would that be a hellpan hand?) 22:35:57 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e (34) 22:59:48 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e 23:19:27 <11Odds> I suppose I'm not sure of the current average time to an exit, but if it gets signficantly longer with this change I do worry it's punishing for characters who realise they regret it (my 14 levels was the time to get all runes, not to an exit). Obviously a balance here - a long forced exploration + fight can be fun and rewarding 23:23:14 <11Odds> (Yeah I did nothing at all with demonic rune levels, the demonic rune, or the last floor - it's just a normal floor with an exit rather than a transit atm. Let me know if there's something on my side that would be useful there) 23:33:53 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e (34) 23:45:43 03Davidescu Victor02 {CrawlOdds} 07* 0.35-a0-571-gd0f1cbee8c: Fix breaking large doors 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0f1cbee8c62 23:56:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.35-a0-570-g6c56e8410e 23:57:13 <09hellmonk> was demonic rune getting cut in hellpan roulette? I guess it could just go on a random floor in temporary finite pan