00:00:22 <06mumra> This does seem to skew things unfairly in favour of shoals. Maybe the density calculation should be used, but have an additional multiplier depending on the branch, so Zigs can have low piety returns 00:00:26 <04dracoomega> I am not sure how I feel about this now-ancient commit, to be honest. Sure, you don't get extra XP per monster from small floors, but generally the number of floor monsters generated is independent of floor size (aside from vaults, obviously), so small floors tend to be more dense and therefore you get more 'xp per floor tile', which is what I assumed the constant explore piety rate was intended to analogize. 00:01:03 <06mumra> > generally the number of floor monsters generated is independent of floor size Yeah I was thinking this. Clearing a small level can be just as hard as clearing a large level (maybe even harder) 00:01:49 <04dracoomega> (Also, regarding Zigs, kill piety in Zigs is already pretty absurd when you get to higher floors. This... does somewhat explain why I was surprised that my Dith piety gain I got in a zig was so much lower than I expected. Like, I would figure that explore piety would do worse than kill piety there, but not by quite so much) 00:02:39 <04dracoomega> (Deep water tiles in Shoals still definitely don't give explore piety, though. That was unrelated to this.) 00:03:05 <06mumra> Each Zig level having exactly the same piety also doesn't sound right of course 00:15:31 <04dracoomega> I mean, I don't think it's an inherent balance issue in 'Small floors give more explore piety than kill piety, but large floors give more kill piety than explore piety'. I think that's still a win for kill piety, on balance. (And they ought to be somewhat different from each other in texture.) 00:22:05 <06mumra> i was thinking like a linear multiplier per zig level like piety * (1 + level/54). so 50% extra piety by the final level, still outclassed by explore on kill, but at least your god slightly appreciates the danger you're in 00:23:56 <04dracoomega> Not sure what I think of special-casing them like that 00:59:25 -!- indigaz20 is now known as indigaz2 02:11:10 <06mumra> Wow ... the actual piety gain math is horrible when you dig into it 02:18:12 <04dracoomega> Looking at that cryptic 'piety denom' stuff that uses holiness for some reason? >.>; 02:18:48 <06mumra> Yep 02:18:55 <06mumra> // this is all very strange, but replicates legacy behaviour. // See the comment on piety_bonus above. int denom = piety_denom_bonus + level; if (xl_denom) denom -= you.get_experience_level() / xl_denom; int gain = denom + piety_bonus; // handle weird special cases // may modify gain/denom if (special) special(gain, denom, victim); what is going 02:18:56 on there lol 02:19:52 <06mumra> trying to figure out if piety-for-kills will overall give more piety per level as you go deeper, or if it still works out roughly even per level due to the denom 02:20:16 <06mumra> (probably easier to just look at actual numbers in game than figure out the implications of these formulae) 02:23:38 <04dracoomega> Yeah, the math is very opaque. It's not even terribly complex, but a lot of it is structured in unintuitive ways. 02:24:33 <04dracoomega> Like, the idea of passing MH_UNDEAD or MH_DEMONIC to say exactly how much relative piety should be granted for different actions is... bizarre, to say the least. (I'm sure it originally existed because someone wanted to reward kills of particular holiness more or less, but that isn't how it's actually been used in practice for a loooong time.) 03:33:11 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:09:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-920-g8c381c6 (34) 09:25:43 New branch created: pull/4829 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4829 09:25:44 03person5060502 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4829 * 0.34-a0-921-gf6ffc95753: Fix comments in floor desc 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f6ffc9575301 09:25:44 03person5060502 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4829 * 0.34-a0-922-gc679bcd27a: Add line breaks to floor desc 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c679bcd27a76 09:53:45 -!- supergeese is now known as uname-a 10:06:10 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-921-gfa3fc790c8: Add person50605 to the credits. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa3fc790c8a8 10:06:10 03person5060502 {dolorous} 07* 0.34-a0-922-gcf32860caa: Fix comments in floor desc 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf32860caac3 10:06:10 03person5060502 {dolorous} 07* 0.34-a0-923-g42f622490f: Add line breaks to floor desc 10(44 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/42f622490fcf 10:49:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-924-g48bd0ad4f3: Fix protean grace description including demonspawn mutations (Bamboolord) 10(42 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/48bd0ad4f3ad 15:41:31 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-924-g48bd0ad4f3 (34) 15:49:32 -!- indigaz26 is now known as indigaz2 16:25:17 Ge0ff (L18 SEWn) (Lair:2) 16:26:06 Lantell has been more specific 16:26:14 <12ge0ff> ^--- i forgot i can't open the detailed description of Ash curses in 0.12 16:38:29 <12ge0ff> (it's a bit surprising that this Ash crash exists in both 0.11 and 0.12) 18:11:05 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-925-g2c4840ae45: Add another time name to artefacts. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c4840ae4503 22:35:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-925-g2c4840ae45 (34) 22:58:44 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-925-g2c4840ae45 23:13:20 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-925-g2c4840ae45 (34) 23:55:37 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-925-g2c4840ae45