00:59:39 -!- indigaz23 is now known as indigaz2 03:34:05 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 03:56:55 -!- wvc1 is now known as wvc 08:36:29 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-791-g4d36b23325: Reduce tabcast special-casing 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 137-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d36b2332527 08:36:29 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-792-gedd230fb21: Make strenuous magic not affect divine exegesis 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/edd230fb21a6 09:16:56 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-793-g39477d2f2f: Tweak tabcast chance formula 10(35 seconds ago, 6 files, 13+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39477d2f2fc7 10:58:58 <06dolorous_84348> I've been looking into artprops regarding spirit shield, and there seems to be an oddity. The spirit shield armor ego is barred from every slot except the offhand (so shields and orbs), but since no shield or orb actually includes weight values for that ego, it's effectively not used at all, despite a check for wearing it when calculating player AC; the only actual source of spirit shield is the amulet of guardian spirit, which 10:58:58 of course isn't armor. So... does that mean the armor ego for it should be fully removed? 11:03:29 <04dracoomega> It's used by unrands, isn't it? 11:18:48 <06dolorous_84348> Only the hat of the bear spirit. 11:19:54 <06dolorous_84348> Does it still need to be an ego on its own, then? 11:36:09 doesn't moon troll leather armour use it too ? 12:16:20 -!- Amorphia is now known as theWeaver 15:27:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-907-g1eab771e70: Add missing space. 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1eab771e709f 15:27:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-908-gc0d0a7eb03: Fix indentation. 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0d0a7eb03aa 15:27:55 <09hellmonk> it used to be a hat ego long ago, interesting that it's (theoretically) allowed on offhands 15:28:28 <09hellmonk> I don't recall it ever being a shield ego 15:30:55 <06dolorous_84348> Neither do I. I've looked at it again with fresher eyes to try and at least figure out the Bear Spirit fallback problem, and the Bear Spirit fallback should be producing an artefact hat with the spirit shield ego, but is_armour_brand_ok() returns false because it's somehow reading the fallback subtype as "robe" instead of "hat," and I have no idea why that's happening. 15:36:26 <06dolorous_84348> So I've at least learned something: randart fallback code is much hairier than I thought. 15:38:44 <06dolorous_84348> Although if it worked, it would be producing literally the only (non-unrand) artefact with the spirit shield ego. 15:48:43 <09hellmonk> very strange, is it actually producing a robe as the fallback item? 15:48:56 <09hellmonk> that seems straightforwardly a bug to me 15:51:39 <06dolorous_84348> No. As far as I can tell, it's producing a hat (producing the item directly via wizard mode command doesn't do a fallback if you've generated it once before, but generating all unrands at once via Ctrl-\ does), but either the fallback check is off (makeitem.cc:1974) or I'm misunderstanding something. 15:54:27 <06dolorous_84348> I'd note that the subtype value of the robe is zero. 15:54:28 <09hellmonk> can you check what happens if the fallback item is produced via a vault or other normal generation? could be a wizmode specific thing? 15:54:41 <06dolorous_84348> I'll give it a shot. 15:59:37 <09hellmonk> I might have found the problem. We're setting force_type equal to the fallback subtype but the brand checks are checking against item.sub_type. I'm not sure the forced type is getting transferred over to the actual item until after we return from setup_fallback_randart 16:00:36 <09hellmonk> would try changing those checks and see if it works 16:04:28 <06dolorous_84348> Ok. I've put together a small vault with just the hat, and the fallback item is a hat, so that at least works. 16:28:49 03mumra02 07* 0.34-a0-909-gca541438bd: Fix targeter_explosive_beam behaviour with wall monsters 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca541438bda9 16:44:10 <06dolorous_84348> Changing those checks does seem to work; I'm properly getting an artefact spirit shield hat now for Bear Spirit; the moon troll leather armour's fallback is properly not spirit shield because it's not a hat, cap, scarf, or offhand item; the scales of the Dragon King's fallback still properly has command; Skullcrusher's fallback still properly has speed; and the hat of Pondering's fallback still properly has ponderousness. 16:44:27 <06dolorous_84348> Thanks for the pointer! 16:53:29 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-910-gcf84d1853f: Fix fallback artefact brand handling (hellmonk). 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf84d1853f5b 17:04:07 03mumra02 07* 0.34-a0-911-gb463225636: Let Spike Launcher shoot wall monsters on same tile 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b463225636fe 18:33:31 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-912-gef1816a107: Let (e)quip menu also unequip by default 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef1816a10725 19:01:12 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-794-g0c00aa96a0: Fix strenuous magic affecting wands 10(73 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c00aa96a063 19:54:58 -!- indigaz28 is now known as indigaz2 19:56:48 <07wizardike> So the area around slime walls that corrodes you is highlighted in green is console which often lets you locate walls 1 square outside loss. Except the green highlight is the exact same colour as the Slime Pits floor and doesn't tell you its there when you xv the floor, so you have to customize the floor colour to even see it. This doesn't seem ideal 19:56:49 <07wizardike> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1424953580275634196/Screenshot_2025-10-07_153826.png?ex=68e5d2ef&is=68e4816f&hm=4637d9b1e29c363299ffb794bc5f1ecb82cf81f7a27184f0404551694095ce04& 20:07:08 <07wizardike> Maybe we should add that the floor tiles are covered in slime to their description when examined and use a different colour for the Slime Pits floor or highlight? 20:07:27 <02Darby> it's definitely a question for the console players but I have never been a fan of that sort of "information loss," it's true 20:08:33 <09hellmonk> that does seem better. I can't think of a way to fix the infoleak without being deliberately misleading about the floor tiles so we may as well highlight properly 20:08:49 <02Darby> (I feel like console has a certain amount of information loss generally that has been accepted, though usually things you can learn by xv'ing tiles) 20:09:59 <09hellmonk> very minor unrelated suggestion: merge MST_MOUNTAINSHELL and MST_SEISMOSAURUS, these books currently differ by 2% cast frequency which does not seem worth preserving 20:10:46 <04dracoomega> I didn't even notice, tbh 20:10:51 <04dracoomega> So that is basically coincidence 20:11:19 <02Darby> I was like "was there a different monspell in their 'book' that was meant to separate them at one point?" 20:11:45 <04dracoomega> (I agree it's an inconsequential difference, but I'm not sure how much benefit there is from sharing as opposed to having monster-specific books. We'd only need to recreate that in future if we decide to change one or the other) 20:12:00 <09hellmonk> crawl cast frequency numbers are one of the things that make me Go Insane every time I look at them, so if there is some other reason you want them separated that's fine 20:12:24 <02Darby> one day we may see a future of transparent cast rates, but it is not today 20:13:48 <04dracoomega> I don't care that they're seperated. I guess I feel basically neutral on their organization here 20:14:59 <07wizardike> Also we are hiding this information in tiles because "its not shown in console" which is leading to the slime floors from oozomancy walls not disappearing until the walls come into view which feels like a bug to some players 20:15:00 <09hellmonk> I made a branch to clean them up and categorize them once, but concluded that you'd need too many categories for that to make sense. So it probably does just need to be a raw percent displayed and we show 5.5% cast chance or whatever 20:15:31 <04dracoomega> (I am fine with removing the internal doubling in general, to be clear) 20:15:50 <02Darby> yeah that was my thought too. no small part of me would want to make them a little rounder here and there though, yes, even if that means a few ultraminor buffs and nerfs 20:15:58 <04dracoomega> I did want to show explicit cast rate in-game, but that was going to come with a more general reworking of how things are laid out in xv (which is a bunch of work I hadn't gotten to yet) 20:16:36 <04dracoomega> Me and Index had discussed some of the details of that in past, but it's gotten kind of backlogged with everything else 20:17:08 <02Darby> yeah, the todo list is ever-growing 20:17:49 <04dracoomega> I don't think that's deliberate? I think it's more that most effects that change out-of-los terrain in ways the player can know about usually have to go to additional effort to display the updates and this doesn't do it? (Though I may be wrong) 20:22:25 <02Darby> reminded me to look back and make sure my change to the drop shadows didn't leak anything I might've missed the first time (it doesn't, afaict) 20:24:32 <04dracoomega> Like, I think noxious bog wearing off out of LoS also does this? (Or did, at any rate) 20:24:52 <04dracoomega> It's unambiguous that it happened, but you didn't technically see it happen, etc. 20:28:27 <07wizardike> Its possible it isn't deliberate. But not doing it is slightly simpler as the floor is going to be updated when it enters view anyway and we already have a flag in the map knowledge that is updated correctly (but that we choose not to use here) 20:32:52 <07wizardike> noxious bog is a mess. It updates the map knowledge but doesn't redraw anything until it gets within los range (but doesn't actually have to be in los if blocked be a wall etc I think) 20:33:05 <04dracoomega> In any case, I am broadly in favor of updating map memory with regard to anything the player unambiguously knows 20:33:17 <04dracoomega> It's just that this is sometimes tricky to do 20:33:41 "You open the tin. It smells like worms. --More--" 20:34:00 <04dracoomega> But I think it's pretty unambiguously good behavior to do so when possible 20:34:21 <02Darby> yeah, I greatly prefer when map memory isn't "polluted" with things that you know for a fact aren't there or anywhere near there, as long as it's reasonable to actually pull off 20:35:01 <02Darby> (like, monsters have to work that way because it's important information, but...) 20:36:38 monsters> well, there is a lot of scattering sixteen Sigmunds over the map where we probably most want the last one 20:36:45 <02Darby> yeah 20:36:54 <02Darby> or yred followers' entire map is now zombies 20:36:58 <03implojin> fwiw re: this: after looking this up (lifelong tiles player) and checking it out in a console build there is actually a slight difference here, acidic floors are lightgreen and base slime floors are green (i support continued crawlcode cleanup) 20:37:16 <07wizardike> It would be nice to update map knowledge when oozomancy ends and that would also fix this problem. However, I was just using that as an example, monsters digging in the Slime Pits would also cause problems 20:37:21 <03implojin> maybe we oughta just make base slime floors brown in console or something 20:37:22 <02Darby> basically though, like Draco, I conceptually support changes to this, but am not informed enough on the implementation to make a firm statement of that 20:38:58 IDK if it's my .crawlrc but I think they are routinely a different colour too (and I'm OK with the idea that that lets you locate walls out of LOS, they look different because they _are_ different) 20:39:54 <07wizardike> Oh I think your right. The difference is incredibly small though 20:39:54 <07wizardike> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1424964424816525482/Screenshot_2025-10-07_163832.png?ex=68e5dd09&is=68e48b89&hm=269426d7694aba87f3180b774ecbb62433c84cff805f25aaa13a6db7f1f8129a& 20:40:02 <03implojin> yeah, it's so minor 20:40:10 <04dracoomega> Color is a lot harder to see when all you have of it is a tiny dot 20:40:11 <03implojin> very hard to see i'd imagine 20:40:42 <04dracoomega> (I feel I ran into this for something I was making before, and decided it had to be different than changing the floor color in console, since you'd never notice it) 20:41:26 <02Darby> I have a pretty good eye for these kinds of minor color variations and essentially have to stare at it and would still be mildly doubtful I'd notice if you dropped a brighter green dot without an obvious wall right next to it 20:41:50 <02Darby> like, the southeast corner having a wall? would never catch that here. 20:48:49 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-913-gd34000703d: Make Slime floors default brown in console (WizardIke) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d34000703d28 21:19:55 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-795-g8246f18a44: Don't attempt to recast a failed tabcast 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8246f18a449e 21:41:35 <03implojin> basil popping in on the roguelikes discord :PlogChamp: 22:04:36 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-796-g2fe1338b50: Further reduce mothkin xp apt 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2fe1338b5049 22:04:36 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-797-g625ee0ee30: Tweak an unraveling safety prompt 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/625ee0ee3017 22:24:07 <03implojin> hahah yes 22:24:20 <03implojin> basil invite GET 22:29:23 <06pleasingfungus> unrelatedly, going down memory lane trying to remember why https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/214f356e7ee7987af1704ebce761d832a0f3f842#diff-c8d91c327300c206fe71ecda6ecdb2f4da6fd5d4aa0245e5f4a57c2d0f3f3983R2179 (reaching rework) was a failure 22:29:36 <06pleasingfungus> i'm starting to remember now. i think it had to do with centaurs 22:30:18 <06pleasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1424992203192795146/image.png?ex=68e5f6e8&is=68e4a568&hm=59a6d3d0edd18ede80aab1443720addf58a7ef7885e6462735e12c42e6a219cc& 22:30:18 <09hellmonk> did you ever get around to testing the interaction with cleave 22:30:27 <06pleasingfungus> heh 22:30:33 <06pleasingfungus> don't remember, think it was low on the list of issues tbh 22:30:55 <04dracoomega> Oh, I can totally see it. (There's honestly a bunch of situations where being forced to attack instead of move is a big issue. Some games lean into that in their design from the get-go - such as Necrodancer - but it's kind of a big thing) 22:31:00 <09hellmonk> Vaguely interested in this for a fork which would solve the equip swapping problem directly 22:31:22 <06pleasingfungus> right, yeah, people would unequip, walk next to centaur, reequip 22:31:23 <06pleasingfungus> and it was very goofy 22:31:27 <09hellmonk> I think brogue has weapons that work that way as well, whips maybe? Been a long time since I played it 22:31:30 <06pleasingfungus> the ability was not a success 22:31:35 <06pleasingfungus> yeah whips sounds right 22:31:37 <04dracoomega> Yeah, whips work that way 22:31:44 <04dracoomega> Of course, they work that way extremely dramatically 22:31:46 <04dracoomega> They have a ton of range 22:32:00 <04dracoomega> (Which possibly makes the whole tradeoff feel more equitable) 22:32:14 <02Darby> note that actual spears also work that way, and have the usual 2 range 22:32:29 <06dolorous_84348> And I remember the days when Crawl's whips could have the reaching brand. 22:32:31 <04dracoomega> I... didn't think so? 22:32:34 <04dracoomega> I thought they just pierced 22:32:45 <04dracoomega> But the initial target had to be adjacent 22:32:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> (5 tiles away, to be exact.) 22:33:29 <02Darby> I remember this because my last run was a war pike run and there was a somewhat silly point where I stood outside a room full of ogres and their "do not let you corridor fight them" AI caused them to all just let me reach attack the entire group to death 22:33:59 <04dracoomega> Hmmm... that is so much not matching my memory that I can't help but wonder if it was changed at some point 22:34:05 <02Darby> possible 22:34:26 <04dracoomega> It attacks an adjacent square, and the square behind it. is what the wiki says 22:35:18 <04dracoomega> Very unlike the whip description 22:35:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-913-gd34000703d (34) 22:38:08 <02Darby> ah. > New with v1.7.5: > ... > - Spears and war pikes will attack from two spaces away. 22:38:23 <02Darby> that resolves that question 22:39:54 <04dracoomega> Huh 22:58:39 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-913-gd34000703d 23:00:09 03WizardIke02 07* 0.34-a0-914-g34d59673ce: Say if a floor square is covered in slime when examining it 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/34d59673ceef 23:13:54 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-914-g34d59673ce (34) 23:48:52 -!- indigaz27 is now known as indigaz2 23:55:29 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-914-g34d59673ce