00:59:20 -!- indigaz21 is now known as indigaz2 01:19:40 <03implojin> browsing old PRs while insomnia for easy-ish closures and I didn't realize there was this much interest in a level feeling implementation. hellmonk mentioned it in passing a couple of times but i was bedridden with pneumonia around that time and entirely missed crawl dev stuff for a while 01:21:32 <03implojin> this sounds broadly like there was wide support for a level feelings/shrines thing, if there's really that much interest maybe i'll take another look when i have the time 01:23:05 <03implojin> (i do not remember whatever was in the original tavern post and the link is dead now, rip) 03:31:54 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:14:11 level feelings ? 05:17:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-894-ga09cb41 (34) 05:22:08 <06mumra> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Level-Feelings 05:22:30 <06mumra> This is what you're looking for 05:23:12 <06mumra> I remember a discussion on it months back where a few more ideas were being tossed around 05:23:32 <06mumra> @implojin ^ 05:29:33 <06mumra> Oh wait that seems to be hellmonk's writeup from after the discussion you already linked to. Anyway it's the only source I'm aware of 06:45:59 <03implojin> close enough! thank you 06:46:56 <03implojin> apparently there was some ancient tavern discussion about this that may or may not still be findable on the wayback machine somewhere but tavern search doesn't work there so rip 07:02:40 <06mumra> just have to build the URL right https://web.archive.org/web/20210621140644/https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26016 07:03:58 <03implojin> oh, dang 07:57:34 New branch created: pull/4821 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4821 07:57:34 03Zhang Haocheng02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4821 * 0.34-a0-883-g9af3c2222c: Show failure rates of abilities in chardump 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9af3c2222cbb 08:33:44 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-772-g2ad22216c7: Move an ability enum for save compat 10(46 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ad22216c7be 08:33:44 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-773-g094aa657ab: Reduce movement prompts when tabcasting 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/094aa657abde 08:33:44 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-774-gf167a0deb1: Automatically inscribe memorized spells on start 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f167a0deb111 09:27:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-895-ga3bcf35f0e: Organise jewellery base ability strings/descs. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3bcf35f0ec9 09:27:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-896-gb46ca96979: Disentangle jewellery_effect_name(). 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b46ca9697962 09:27:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-897-geaea44af37: Deduplicate terse jewellery ego descs. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eaea44af3742 09:38:42 New branch created: pull/4822 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4822 09:38:43 03LiciTheCrawler02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4822 * 0.34-a0-895-gf622c21c89: fix: Prevent acquiring a few things with certain sacrifices 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 30+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f622c21c89cf 10:05:21 03LiciTheCrawler02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4822 * 0.34-a0-896-g9be53b60f0: Checkwhite 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9be53b60f095 11:32:53 03LiciTheCrawler02 {dolorous} 07* 0.34-a0-898-g047248ea71: fix: Prevent acquiring a few things with certain sacrifices 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 30+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/047248ea713d 13:11:08 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-899-g76d92dc445: Fix typo. 10(64 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76d92dc4457b 13:24:11 03code282802 {dolorous} 07* 0.34-a0-900-g374f6ec268: Improve plants mon descriptions 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 33+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/374f6ec268af 13:33:07 <06mumra> This updated description makes Shoals lore even more confusing ... If its sunny there then how is it also underground? 13:35:53 <12ge0ff> there's an artificial sun :kobold: 13:35:58 <02Darby> magical sunlight 13:36:05 <06regret-⸸nde※> I... would have preferred not to have merged that in at all, tbh. 13:36:58 <02Darby> might have to modify a couple other descriptions if so 13:37:28 <09hellmonk> Shoals is on some Narnia bullshit 13:37:42 skylights 13:38:01 <06regret-⸸nde※> Shoals being a bright branch, tile-wise, has zero correlation to there being any actual presence of sun in it, because most regular branches are just naturally lit without having any visible torches in them. 13:38:02 the whole dungeon is magical, why is this confusing? 13:38:14 <06dolorous_84348> Maybe adjust it to say that the light's better down there instead of referencing sunlight, then? 13:38:24 potentially with mirrors and stuff to get sunlight down there if there's no direct path 13:38:42 or optical fibres 13:38:58 <02Darby> at the least, shoals is doing something magical to put four oceans underground 13:39:05 <06regret-⸸nde※> (The only torches in any wall sets are in... D, Depths, Orc, and Crypt.) 13:39:12 <06dolorous_84348> Exactly! 13:40:48 <02Darby> (I do think that this description creates some inconsistency as currently is, although there are multiple solutions) 13:41:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Snake Pit and Spider Nest have brighter wall tiles than D, yet nobody's leaping to say they have magical fluorescence....) 13:43:23 <02Darby> probably the likely-metaphorical branch entrance tile is contributing some to that impression 13:44:03 <06regret-⸸nde※> I'm tempted to just edit the sun out of there at that point. 13:44:46 <06dolorous_84348> That would make sense, yes. 13:46:35 <02Darby> (truth be told, were we working from the ground up, I would say a truly underground ocean had the potential to be quite visually striking, but feel like the surreal daylit look is part of the flavor of Shoals now) 13:46:48 <02Darby> (I mean, in terms of how the tiles look) 13:46:53 <09hellmonk> Just make an artificial sun monster and put it on shoals 4 13:51:52 <06dolorous_84348> Along the same line, maybe make a formerly-merfolk-now-orc unique that occasionally talks about how living at the beach isn't all it's cracked up to be? 13:51:59 <06mumra> There's an Iain M Banks book "Matter" which features a Shellworld concept rather like this, it's a huge world consisting of nested shells where each floor is in effect a selft-contained world with its own oceans, artificial sunlight, gravity and everything. 13:58:57 <06dolorous_84348> Seriously, I wasn't aware this change was that controversial. 14:15:43 <06pleasingfungus> nothing attracts more controversy than trivia 14:16:26 <06dolorous_84348> I suppose so. 14:19:38 wadler's law applied to lore 😛 14:29:24 <09hellmonk> While we're at it does anyone want to bikeshed the message for luring pr 14:29:33 <09hellmonk> Open to suggestions 14:31:44 <06regret-⸸nde※> With how mediocre Shoals floor tiles (if not water tiles!) have been as undifferentiable noise for most of Crawl's development, and with such a sunny beahch premise having been an excuse to fit Abyss/Pan monsters into a non-unholy branch because they have the word "sun" in their name, I'd be more than happy to have Shoals' appearance significantly shifted away from "outdoors" to get away from people thinking it's Literally Four 14:31:44 Stacked Underground Copies Of The Ocean. 14:34:23 <06dolorous_84348> That works. Although even with the current outdoor theme, I don't get putting Abyss/Pan monsters there just because they have "sun" in their name; that's too much of a stretch. 14:39:32 <06dolorous_84348> I'll revert the change for now, and I await the coming of the hypothetical Dark Beach 🙂 14:40:49 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f: Revert "Improve plants mon descriptions" 10(56 seconds ago, 2 files, 8+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85a6fcb57ffb 14:57:25 <12ge0ff> You mean the interlevel luring PR? 14:57:46 <09hellmonk> yes 14:58:02 <12ge0ff> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4659 <-- for reference 14:59:10 <12ge0ff> there doesn't seem to be any in-game messages for dismissing monsters yet (except for debug messages) 15:00:33 <12ge0ff> (so nothing to bikeshed) 15:02:33 <09hellmonk> Just because I haven't erected the shed yet doesn't mean we can't discuss the paint job 15:39:34 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f (34) 19:23:40 <06mumra> @hellmonk What about monsters that get shafted 19:49:42 <09hellmonk> Couple ways we could solve that, not sure which would be best. 19:51:27 <09hellmonk> easiest is to just reset them as normal (but that looks weird), second easiest is to check that the monster is taking stairs before resetting (but then maybe you want to intentionally shaft something a bunch? unclear how abusable that is) third easiest would be to give monsters a larger range if they're transiting from a shaft, like 5 levels or something 19:54:12 <09hellmonk> Do monsters get the same shaft rules as the player? 19:59:10 <06mumra> Going this route, perhaps it's worth updating the level gen and remove the "endless ocean", and draw a rock wall border closer to the landmass. Make it clearly a series of flooded caves. This removes some existing issues e.g. autoexplore having to clear the whole map if you're flying, or being able to cheese monsters that can't go in deep water 20:02:47 <06mumra> Yeah generic_shaft_dest controls it for player or monsters i think 20:36:13 <02Darby> against removing the endless ocean; the openness and ocean border are as significant a part of shoals' uniqueness and surreal departure from the rest of the dungeon as the visual brightness itself (I've heard multiple players describe it as their favorite branch, and can understand why) 20:36:15 <02Darby> although I do agree it's not ideal that autoexplore insists on exploring the outer rim (mostly an "encounter krakens in the worst possible position" trap), and feel a subjective personal aesthetic clash with the perfect rectangularity of the border (contrast desolation_temple for an example of what I prefer there) 20:37:25 <02Darby> although a rectangular border fits with the square LoS so I'm content leaving that as personal feelings rather than potentially turning the endless ocean into something tactically relevant 21:54:20 03hellmonk02 07[gohome] * 0.34-a0-368-gbcec7f5e6b: Messaging cleanup and distance rework 10(4 minutes ago, 5 files, 42+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bcec7f5e6bea 21:54:20 Branch pull/4659 updated to be equal with gohome: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4659 21:54:21 <09hellmonk> I have tentatively gone with the third option, which I am not going to test because it is very late. Whoever gets around to merging it can decide if they'd rather do something else. 22:35:06 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f (34) 22:57:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f 23:14:13 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f (34) 23:55:35 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-901-g85a6fcb57f