00:01:10 New branch created: pull/4804 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4804 00:01:10 03tianmaster02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4804 * 0.34-a0-844-g3bbd99ec7c: Fix where the quill tile does not display the fish tail correctly when merfolk is in water 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3bbd99ec7c4a 00:59:07 -!- indigaz27 is now known as indigaz2 03:32:01 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:04:28 <06mumra> would be nice if parchment shops showed the spell schools of each spell. it's even two keypresses to get into a spell description to check them 05:04:29 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420017974835937292/FAEB0DDB-BDC6-45D1-8D2E-FEE0748A9ADF.png?ex=68d3de4b&is=68d28ccb&hm=ef9aaf3bf7f9d6ba9741fa27ef5a7e7ab0104a1b5f4043be22d954b7381ae183& 05:06:45 <06mumra> rock fish + spike trap ... i feel like this is a bug, the spike trap won't shoot the rock fish on top of it 05:06:47 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420018555377946624/35AA6019-3EFD-4EE5-B861-CFC9C1D0B629.png?ex=68d3ded6&is=68d28d56&hm=8b6398a8ca681c7aa430debaf7fd156e26bfcc9289875c22a19c9816887ef8a8& 05:08:28 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-843-gd1d6a90 (34) 05:08:52 <12ge0ff> it looks like there's enough space for abbreviated schools, like "Summ/Tloc" 05:09:10 <06mumra> yeah that's what i was thinking 05:09:22 <12ge0ff> the price + name is about 50 chars, even for long spell names 05:10:30 <12ge0ff> which leaves at least 25-30 chars for console 05:16:01 <06mumra> maybe schools plus spell level 06:47:31 <06mumra> anyone noticed a weird tiles bug with ghosts? (it probably affects some other entities as well) 06:47:52 <06mumra> any time i press esc it re-randomises the ghost's appearance. it's very strange 06:48:14 <06mumra> noticing this in a necropolis 06:52:02 <02Darby> yes, I looked into it inconclusively for a while. it seems to be new to 0.34. 06:54:12 <02Darby> I would like to look into it again if I get the chance but I was unable to discern the cause at the time 07:59:15 <02Darby> well, I've found the cause and resolved it locally, but I'm too uncomfortable with how little I know of what this did or why it worked to push yet 08:12:45 <02Darby> storing the ghost titles in i_ghost appeared to cause it to constantly re-randomise. based on some incredibly vague suspicions, subtracting the size of the string from the size of i_ghost when applying hash32 and randomising seems to make its output consistent. 08:31:12 <03implojin> %git 5d013b21 08:31:13 <04Cerebot> Aidan Holm * 0.21-a0-642-g5d013b2151: Fix ghost doll cycling through parts (8 years ago, 2 files, 0+ 2-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d013b2151aa 08:31:45 <02Darby> oh cool, this has happened before 09:23:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> Spell schools + levels are indicated with colours, borders, and glyphs on the actual tile, though I'll admit people have asked for slightly more elaboration than is currently available, and reading the actual tiles will be mangled by a lot of web browsers doing poor zoom levels + the reluctance to actually let people scale to x2.0 due to barachi. 09:23:59 <02Darby> part of me wonders if this is solvable on the rc end also 09:31:31 <08wormsofcan> might be better to just make small icons like brands/egos that are both colour coded and have vague shapes 09:32:59 <08wormsofcan> are the glyphs supposed to be referencing something specific 10:01:45 <12ge0ff> %git 49a8721c84 10:01:46 <04Cerebot> DracoOmega * 0.34-a0-184-g49a8721c84: Parchment tiles by regret-index (4 months ago, 82 files, 260+ 4-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/49a8721c84f1 10:04:49 <12ge0ff> The spell school is coded via the appearance: level 1-4 is the simplest, then there's 5-7, and 8-9 is the fanciest. The border colours encode spell schools, although three-school spells choose 2 out of 3 colours randomly 10:05:17 <12ge0ff> So by the tile alone you can't tell the exact level and schools 10:06:24 <12ge0ff> (and there's also the accessibility problem, when you need to tell apart different shades of blue to know if the spell is from translocations or hexes) 10:08:31 <04dracoomega> I sort of honestly feel like if you don't know what schools the spell is, then you don't know what the spell itself is, and you should just be reading the description of the spell 10:09:32 <06regret-⸸nde※> I'm not greatly concerned by all of this considering that our previous state was already requiring multiple keypresses to actually see what was in e.g. the book of the moon in the first place, yes. 10:10:54 <04dracoomega> (Like, the icons were never intended to be a method by which regular people tell spell schools apart. It was just a visual variety thing. The game still tells you directly what spell it is.) 10:11:23 <02Monkooky> Sure, but being able to visually scan for e.g. the fire spells in a shop would be nice if feasible 10:12:50 <02Monkooky> it's obviously an improvement for having to open Sif Muna's Tome of Effervesence, Sif Muna's Grimoire of Luminosity, and Sif Muna's Codex of Nostrums to see which ways I can purchase foxfire 10:18:08 <08wormsofcan> well if we're going to have the visual distinction with the tiles we might as well use the established visual language like this 10:18:08 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420096910336987248/parchment-prototype.png?ex=68d427cf&is=68d2d64f&hm=f562854cecdff0f11a5a2f7ff7be0f570c347e07f089ecb6769e91f8b7a133a5& 10:18:34 <06regret-⸸nde※> Doesn't this toss out the level part entirely? 10:18:35 <08wormsofcan> not a lot of wiggle room for the school icons tho 10:18:53 <02Monkooky> that's also unreadably small 10:20:33 <08wormsofcan> if we're willing to obscure the bottom of the parchment the icons can be at least 8x8 10:21:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I am willing to go and e.g. screw around more with palettes and highlights to get the schools more differentiated from each other, and would also be fine with more specific icons over the tiny sparkles current high-level spells are using if they were provided, but I am rather concerned that just regular icons will be cramming in too much information into too little space, yes- 11 schools is already struggling to make e.g. 10:21:16 the overlapping palettes of ice vs. air or translocations vs. conjurations.) 10:24:57 <04dracoomega> Like, I don't know that 'can immediately tell what spell a parchment is of by looking at it on the ground' is a realistic or even important goal, and I personally prefer the tiles we have for them now over tiny school icons next to a bland page. I don't think it helps that meaningfully with legibility (I mean, how many conj/fire spells are there, even if you could easily tell it was a conj/fire spell?) and (imo) doesn't look as nice 10:25:56 <02Monkooky> Ah, I was just hoping for 'which of these are fire spells' 10:28:41 <06regret-⸸nde※> To a certain degree, all that requires is just recognizing I mixed the letters F and M into a weird orange mess- 10:28:42 <06regret-⸸nde※> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420099565570228326/image.png?ex=68d42a48&is=68d2d8c8&hm=34f021b3719286b640a231a11128fe25ca2a6cb12dcf9861784bcef510ddfe39& 10:29:36 <08wormsofcan> slightly bigger icons 10:29:37 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420099798312292466/parchment-prototype2.png?ex=68d42a80&is=68d2d900&hm=421320776db69a8a86ca9a9e04f4f3b92dec052ea6e6071bda698b17b05dc0d0& 10:30:40 <08wormsofcan> I think the other option is to just have 1 of the schools and just use the player's skilling to show the most relevant school 10:30:54 <08wormsofcan> then we can just use the normal icon size 10:31:01 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...Dynamically changing tiles based on player skills will 100% just confuse people. 10:31:50 <04dracoomega> To say nothing of the fact that 'currently highest' and 'most relevant' are not actually the same thing 10:33:27 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I think getting more than two overlays would require an immense amount of work, currently? The second overlay was already quite a hack.) 10:33:41 <12ge0ff> having more readable parchment icons is good and everything, but something like a $ 999 gold a parchment of Eringya's Surprising Crocodile (Summ, L4) saves a lot of key presses when shopping for spells 10:34:33 <12ge0ff> (although, maybe FCC won't fit the 80 chars limit) 10:35:26 <08wormsofcan> I think we can just abbreviate the names of really long spells 10:35:51 <12ge0ff> or use the same trimming as on the I screen / in morgues 10:35:57 <08wormsofcan> just write 999 gold a parchment of Eringya's Surpris... (Summ, L4) 10:37:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> I haven't compiled a list to check immediately, but I am immediately suspicious of any system where we need to cut off a fifth of all spell names. 10:37:54 <08wormsofcan> well it's for shops 10:38:45 <08wormsofcan> the problem is the player needs to check the description of the item for key information, and having to disambiguate a name is probably less likely to happen if they know the schools/level 10:39:05 oh hey. it's art people 10:39:15 did you look at my latest frilled lizard? :D 10:39:56 <02Monkooky> I do think this approach loses a fair bit visually :< 10:40:10 <08wormsofcan> even saying a parchment of a level 5 summoning/hexes spell would reduce the amount of content checking 10:40:22 <12ge0ff> These school icons could be partially obstructed by the green autopickup outline. So the best place for them could be in the middle of the parchment 10:40:25 https://imgur.com/a/wMwgekh boop. when you get a minute of course. i'm not demanding. it's just i never find you on :) 10:40:29 <02Darby> notably, even the scroll tiles use a certain amount of color on the physical scroll itself to categorize the scroll type 10:40:33 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...That just introduces a completely different knowledge check at all times? 10:40:37 <04dracoomega> I feel like cutting off the name of the spell to tell subordinate information about the spell is kind of dubious on the 'improved clarity' front (especially since multischool spells will need even more cut off) 10:41:22 <08wormsofcan> well it's a simplified version of the knowledge check books already had 10:42:36 <12ge0ff> (the width limit exists only for console, since local and web tiles can show more text) 10:42:37 <06regret-⸸nde※> Outside of the Iron Shot Saga, spell names almost never change in comparison to what books had to constantly do, though. 10:42:50 <08wormsofcan> actually do we use ! in shops 10:45:54 <03implojin> could we do a shortname longname thing where the shortname elides "a parchment of" 10:46:12 <02Monkooky> I guess all I'm looking for is having the current icons stand out more against the parchment background, and take up more of the parchment space 10:48:17 <08wormsofcan> I don't think it's a big deal how noticeable the icons are if they're not intended to actually be visually useful 10:48:41 <08nicolae> that's to swap between buy/examine in shops, isn't it? 10:49:04 <08nicolae> shorten it to 'chment. dungeoneer slang. hey pal you got any chments on ya? 10:49:05 <08wormsofcan> yeah 10:49:08 <08wormsofcan> that is true 10:49:38 <08nicolae> i wonder if it would be reasonable for the examine listing in a shop to do the spell schools and level automatically 10:50:03 <08nicolae> since if you want to look at the parchment you gotta hit ! anyway as it is, so you could save a keystroke by having the actual listing change in the shop menu 10:51:07 <08nicolae> so it goes from a - 999 gold - a parchment of Nicolae's Surprising Vault and then you hit ! to go to the peep-at menu and it changes to a - 999 gold - parchment of Nicolae's Surpri... (L9, Tloc, Summ, Earth) 10:51:26 <12ge0ff> related: imagine if you could filter parchments by school in the shop ui 10:51:28 <08nicolae> though admittedly that might be a pain in the ding dong to implement 10:51:41 <08wormsofcan> just do it with search tbh 10:52:02 <08wormsofcan> the filtering I mean 10:53:01 <02Monkooky> While it may not be the original intent, the fact that there's a consistent meaning means as long as you can see the icons clearly they will become visually useful 10:54:15 is the dev discord for crawl secret or can anyone join 10:54:18 <04dracoomega> I mean, that I am certainly in favor of, on a conceptual level 10:55:17 <02Monkooky> while not secret, it's invite only so that moderation is much easier 10:56:21 oh. poop. i was just hoping for an easier access to the artists 10:56:30 <02Darby> technically doesn't mean a whole lot in practice, I never bothered to ask to join the dev discord before I became one because following the irc logs kept me apprised of all the conversation anyway 10:56:36 <08nicolae> yeah, discord's mod tools are less useful than irc's, since discord doesn't have stuff like IP bans 10:56:50 <08nicolae> iirc 10:57:35 <08nicolae> the artists will see your posts, sometimes they just take a bit to see them/get back to you about them. sadly gammafunk refuses to pay for us to spend all day here so some of us have to do day jobs 😔 10:58:18 i can forgive that 10:58:22 <08wormsofcan> you know you can get a third school shown in the icon by just having different base colours for the scrolls 10:58:33 <06mumra> Ah ... I hadn't looked closely at the parchment tiles, i kind of assumed it was just a randomised tile 🤣 But yeah, hard to parse particularly at default zoom levels 11:00:29 <06regret-⸸nde※> We probably should just permit zooming to x2.0 and ignore the cut-offs this does to Barachi LOS at this point, honestly. 11:01:04 or just disable such zooming for barachim players 11:08:15 <06mumra> In webtiles i just zoom to 2x using browser zoom. Everything is way easier to see. Ideally we would detect the resolution and set a zoom level automatically if its not overridden in rc 11:10:19 <06mumra> On any HD screen 1x zoom is pretty horrible tbh. Could also do with a default alpha boost, the tiles are VERY dark if you have a monitor with good contrast 11:12:49 <02Darby> I'm familiar with the issue, but as someone who checks my own art on 3 different monitors (old computer, new computer, phone), the color profiles are so different it's difficult to set a default that looks good for everyone—the tiles were brighter and were darkened a long time ago to reach this point 11:14:27 <02Darby> (in particular, crawl screenshots look extremely dark on my phone, but perfectly fine on both my computers) 11:14:42 <02Darby> I don't think there's any unambiguous improvement for everyone to be had there 11:15:42 <08wormsofcan> wonder how this looks in the webtile view 11:15:42 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420111397685170227/parchment-prototype3.png?ex=68d4354d&is=68d2e3cd&hm=3820a9982477517c99e8c030ac582988a156104ca81aa4041bd599469af064ae& 11:15:46 <06regret-⸸nde※> The screenshot you provided that started all of this conversation, if it's really 2x using browser zoom, has turned a 32x28 tile into a 54x45 tile. 11:18:12 <08wormsofcan> @Monkooky how readable are the icons on that 11:22:10 Browsers have an interesting idea of what 2x means if so 11:24:33 <02Monkooky> color on the icons would help a lot 11:24:54 <02Monkooky> but size is certainly sufficient 11:25:38 <08wormsofcan> think we have to give up on colours on the icons imo, since they are more useful for colourblind players 11:26:34 <08wormsofcan> it's going to be challenging to have a consistent colour selection that's readable yet distinguishable 11:43:31 <06mumra> Agreed (and hence why a huge number of games have some kind of test card to calibrate the alpha when you first start) 11:43:54 <06mumra> Still, providing an alpha setting at least would be a good move 11:45:24 <06mumra> Well it is more complicated because there's the Windows desktop scaling applied first before browser zoom 11:46:14 <06mumra> In fact my browser zoom was 1.5x (just eyeballed it to fill the screen) 11:46:53 <06mumra> Then windows scaling is at 175% 11:51:53 <06mumra> Actually it may have been at 150% on that monitor. Either way it still doesn't come to 54px, I think Discord is additionally scaling the image. If you download the original image it's I think 74px 11:53:32 <06mumra> Anyway this all highlights a bigger problem, ideally we want any scaling to be a whole number otherwise the uneven sized rows and columns look REALLY bad, but display settings mess with this by applying scaling factors like 125%, 150%, 175% before the application or web page even gets to have a say 11:55:43 <02Darby> yeah, I have minimal knowledge of the web technicalities involved but the way uneven scaling hurts the pixel art is palpable, yet seemingly difficult to avoid 11:56:23 <06mumra> it affects desktop as well, at least on windows 11:59:21 <06pleasingfungus> these parchments are cool 11:59:21 <06mumra> (or maybe it doesn't) 11:59:41 <02Darby> my own local tiles install has never defaulted to uneven pixel scaling, certainly, but I have only my own computers to test by 12:00:58 <06mumra> i think window.devicePixelRatio could be used to for it in webtiles 12:02:29 <06mumra> yeah i think maybe it is handled appropriately in SDL 12:02:52 <02Darby> makes sense 12:03:19 <06mumra> but still, detecting a sensible default zoom level would be a win 12:03:22 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420123392992088146/57942AA6-2278-4D05-8B00-59C20DBFB8AD.png?ex=68d44079&is=68d2eef9&hm=75e5160923d38e751cd1a7cd9d443b1fd52675797e410587b1ca062db964f9e9& 12:03:45 <06mumra> this is how the game looks by default on my laptop with a 4k screen 😛 12:06:37 <06mumra> (interestingly ... the emscripten build i was working on handled things WAY better and i don't understand why. things were scaled up by default but it wasn't just scaling up a lower resolution screen, the fonts were very crisp) 12:07:07 <02Monkooky> in that case would recommend just a darker icon 12:14:32 <05icoson> local tiles should be detecting hidpi situations, but the font sizes in that screenshot suggest you have it set so that logical pixels = device pixels 12:16:11 <05icoson> if you set game_scale=2 (or 3 or 4) it'll do something better, but there's no infrastructure to autodetect good values for that 12:19:23 <05icoson> basically I decided that it was better not to try to second guess the logical/device pixel ratio provided by the OS. Allowing changing those values on the fly in the config menu would be at least as good as trying to detect various cases 12:19:37 <05icoson> (something I was working towards when I was last actively committing but never finished) 12:22:04 <06mumra> i think something must be bugged with that situation (maybe because windows desktop scaling is also set) 12:23:14 <05icoson> what I mean is the game's font does a pretty good job of matching the system font sizes, so I think the OS is not providing a device pixel ratio that is much different from 1 12:23:17 <06mumra> the emscripten build did appear to handle it correctly which is the same sdl code. so there's some reason it's not always working on local windows 12:23:40 <05icoson> emscripten runs in a browser, right? 12:23:56 <05icoson> the browser supplies its own device pixel ratio which may not be the OS's 12:24:45 <05icoson> (there's also the fact that possibly no one who uses windows much has ever worked on this code) 12:25:17 <06mumra> i wonder if having multiple monitors is messing things up 12:25:54 <05icoson> local tiles tries to adapt to the current monitor but the code is a bit janky (and also, tbh, I probably only tested on mac) 12:26:47 <06mumra> yeah makes sense this is a windows bug (hence why emscripten worked fine, which was closer to a unix build) 12:27:46 <06mumra> there's nothing particularly unusual about my windows install 12:28:12 <05icoson> well, I still think from the screenshot it's not really a bug, just a windows setup that is not using highdpi 12:28:38 <05icoson> at least not in a way that that version of sdl can detect 12:29:45 <06mumra> it maybe needs to be done differently to look at the windows scaling setting (or maybe it's just the SDL version) 12:30:04 <05icoson> (otherwise the start button etc would not be so small) 12:30:22 <05icoson> (or whatever you call that bar these days) 12:31:30 <06mumra> it's a 4k screen remember 12:32:00 <06mumra> maybe some people would set their scaling at 200% but i like having more screen space so mine is at 150% 12:33:11 <05icoson> that makes sense but I think most likely dcss is using the same scaling as the os setting, based on the font sizes 🙂 12:33:42 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420131028781105283/2291DA4C-DA10-46DB-9605-688FFD3142CF.png?ex=68d44796&is=68d2f616&hm=3be3fc2d08bdf8e825198f4cbf7f43f37c166f5ec68445af3f917168f2bdeb4f& 12:33:48 <06mumra> this at 100% scaling 12:34:12 <06mumra> so yes the game is applying scaling 12:34:58 <05icoson> I agree that it could be good to detect and autoset game_scale to some better value for cases like that 12:35:59 <05icoson> I think in sdl it's at least possible to find the real pixel info, iirc in browser that's not possible at all in a consistent way across browsers 12:36:30 <06mumra> i think we need to look at the overall resolution, not just dpi 12:36:48 <05icoson> yeah that's what I mean, iirc in browser you can't even do that. But it should be possible in sdl 12:37:22 <06mumra> you can basically do it in browser as well i think 12:38:50 <05icoson> one of the browsers actively hid it from you when I last tried, maybe safari 12:42:44 <06mumra> that's why nobody likes safari 12:58:14 <08wormsofcan> alright cleaned up most of the parchment design elements 12:58:14 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1420137201601216724/parchment-prototype4.png?ex=68d44d55&is=68d2fbd5&hm=e7694f3d7f2982b296340b964928c8ee7c6c7eee2ee0cf8cab525301e880e1dd& 12:59:09 <08wormsofcan> we'll need to update the skill menu icons for alchemy and forgecraft to match 13:12:06 <06mumra> they really look nice 13:20:59 <06mumra> gotta say, the inventory change is insane. i'm all the way into shoals now and just been picking up all kinds of rubbish the whole game and never had to once worry about inventory 13:23:08 <06mumra> i'm thinking there's some space for a handful of new throwing items ... ? got some notes from a while back on a bit of a throwing rework and a bit more availability of inventory slots maybe helps this 13:27:33 <06regret-⸸nde※> I... appreciate the finer outlining, but I don't really like how all multi-school spells basically have no visible text on what is supposed to be instructive papers, don't really like earth and forgecraft getting much grimier colours compared to their actual spell creations / contents, and the bottom furl reads pretty weirdly with the outlining stain sometimes being very dark? Summoning getting greens because of Abjuration over 13:27:34 almost anything else also feels very weird to me, and so does using a triangle for Alchemy since even in alchemical symbols that directly means "fire". 13:31:52 <06mumra> could summoning be rainbow coloured? 13:32:33 <08wormsofcan> we're still using green for summoning (see boggarts) 13:33:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> We're also using spell-icon mauve on tesseracts. 13:34:55 <06mumra> green should logically be alchemy 13:35:03 <06mumra> summoning should be octarine 13:37:03 <08wormsofcan> alchemy is lime yes 13:37:33 <06regret-⸸nde※> There's... not really that much of a visual gap, due to how monitors work?... 13:37:57 <06regret-⸸nde※> (The mention of having to change the alchemy icon made me hesitate a fair bit on even assuming which was which.) 13:38:33 <08wormsofcan> I haven't finalized the colours due to that issue + the ice/air/necro overlap 13:39:09 make air teal ice cyan and necromancy magenta 13:39:41 <06regret-⸸nde※> Why would Necromancy be magenta? Draining energy is consistently black-turqoise. 13:39:42 <08wormsofcan> the colours are going to stay the same I just need to adjust the actual shades 13:40:24 oh, turqoise, why did i think it was magenta 13:40:33 i blame my monitor 13:50:41 like the icon on the scroll of fear looks magenta to me 13:50:44 so i figured that was necromancy 13:52:13 <06regret-⸸nde※> Cause Fear is not a Necromancy spell. 13:52:49 oh, well that's on me then 16:40:30 03Darby02 07* 0.34-a0-844-gacf2245ded: Give bee octopodes and jellyfish cats haircuts 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/acf2245dedca 18:13:28 I come requesting an invite to the secret dev discord 18:14:13 I had the invite previously but it got lost when I left all my extraneous discords in a fit of kondo-esque pique 18:23:05 is there a test suite these days? 18:30:03 not much of one 18:35:52 how is the modern codebase on the c-to-c++ spectrum 18:39:03 -!- adept74 is now known as adept7 18:40:30 pretty C++, but at a fairly old version so it'll still build on CAO (I think it's stuck at C++11?) 18:51:48 aight I know my C++ is rusty but how is `msg::force_stderr echo(maybe_bool::maybe);` valid syntax, by what mechanism are we composing force_stderr with echo 19:22:58 if you said anything in the past 6 minutes, I missed it due to a netsplit 19:39:32 -!- Amorphia is now known as Skyclad 20:35:23 `update_screen(); // ???` 21:09:38 <06mumra> You misunderstand, this is constructing a class instance named echo. It's an instance of class msg::force-stderr 21:12:52 I realized that eventually, I was caught off-guard by seeing a class with a lowercase name 21:15:52 <06mumra> yeah i frequently find that particular syntax a bit confusing 21:16:33 <06mumra> when almost every other language i work in has something more along the lines of foo = new bar() for class construction 22:04:05 `// The backslash in ?\? is there so it doesn't start a trigraph.` 22:26:48 sorry, I still think in terms of C 22:27:35 …and it still works that way, it just gets actual C++ folks up in arms because they tend to forget C++ is mostly C 22:35:30 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-844-gacf2245ded (34) 22:36:11 -!- Skyclad is now known as Amorphia 22:58:34 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-844-gacf2245ded 23:13:22 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-844-gacf2245ded (34) 23:55:37 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-844-gacf2245ded