00:59:27 -!- indigaz23 is now known as indigaz2 03:32:55 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:08:51 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-723-ge448dd4 (34) 08:06:18 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4751 * 0.34-a0-710-g150327a53a: Remove MM spellcasting breakpoints 10(27 seconds ago, 4 files, 21+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/150327a53ae2 12:32:05 -!- perryprog_ is now known as perryprog 14:38:19 -!- [808]state is now known as [808]state[afk] 16:01:35 -!- [808]state[afk] is now known as [808]state 17:51:34 03Steinar Darri �orgilsson02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4765 * 0.34-a0-725-g9d7ca8dcf6: Give Demigods Clarity at XL 13 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9d7ca8dcf609 19:09:58 03code282802 {dolorous} 07* 0.34-a0-724-g1007c679b5: unify capitalization of Blorkula the orcula 10(4 days ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1007c679b550 19:21:37 03yrdzrfxndfvh02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4747 * 0.34-a0-694-ga3b0d1e526: 1st vault edits 10(4 minutes ago, 5 files, 74+ 117-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3b0d1e5261d 19:39:06 <04dracoomega> I feel like that capitalization is incorrect. As part of a proper name / title, is it not customary to capitalize all words, even those which otherwise wouldn't be? That's how it works for all other uniques. (The commit saying that more uses of lowercase than uppercase currently existed in the code is true, but virtually none of them are player-facing and I think that any which are ought to be changed to be capitalized, not the 19:39:06 other way around) 19:40:20 Blork/Blorkula was always an exception, though 19:41:27 <04dracoomega> Why, though? 19:41:51 <04dracoomega> Like, is there a reason it ought to be? 19:43:27 hm, `git log --grep` thinks Blork predates svn. was hoping to find the original commit 😦 19:44:05 <06regret-⸸nde※> ("Orcula", of course, is also far closer to being a title than "Orc" was, due to the lack of other vampire orcs.) 19:44:22 possibly some Linley thing 19:45:20 <02Darby> now, if one could fight non-unique orculas... 19:46:54 arguably we should be able to; and should similarly have species names for monster Beogh followers in general 19:47:11 (possibly reusable as player titles) 19:47:41 <02Darby> looking at Joseph, a Mercenary now 19:48:15 that said, I'm not sure we track gods for non-uniques that don't come from god penance or BiA/other invocations 19:48:37 <02Darby> I think we do? I recall code specifically stating that some orcs don't worship Beogh 19:48:50 <02Darby> it's been a while and I don't have said code in front of me, though 19:48:50 and it would probably complicate things a lot since they shouldn't have much ability to use god invocations or abilities themselves 19:50:03 <02Darby> ah yes, here it is: 19:50:33 <02Darby> cpp case BRANCH_ORC: // There are a few heretics if (one_chance_in(5)) god = random_choose(GOD_TROG, GOD_MAKHLEB, GOD_VEHUMET); else god = GOD_BEOGH; break; 19:51:02 <02Darby> I didn't actually know the list of Beogh heretics was specifically that 19:51:05 <03implojin> agree with this fwiw which is why i hadn't previously merged that pr but also do not feel strongly enough about it to act 19:51:31 <02Darby> I was not certain but Joseph, a Mercenary moved the needle a bit for me 19:51:39 <02Darby> since that's even less of a title 19:54:29 <02Darby> (had to check how that code block even looked over on the other side of the IRC bridge, seems about as readable as it's going to be) 19:54:31 and always struck me as weird 19:54:51 and it's about as readable as it'll ever be on the IRC end, yes 19:54:59 my Matrix bridge pastebins stuff instead 19:55:33 (well, "my"; it's a stock heisenbridge) 20:06:10 <06dolorous_84348> I thought it could go either way, but I went with it because "Blork the orc" was the older version instead of "Blork the Orc." 20:07:09 <02Darby> yeah, it's an entirely sensible train of thought, but I think the old standard was the inconsistent one and just stuck 20:09:30 <06dolorous_84348> And 6 out of every 7 orcs without a specified god is made to worship Beogh, while the remainder stays without a specified god. It's one of the two small bits of monster god assignment that aren't in YAML, along with having certain holy beings worship TSO unless they're in the Abyss. 20:10:17 <02Darby> ah, I think that's the code I actually remember 20:10:27 <06dolorous_84348> It's odd that other orcs aren't explicitly worshipping the heretic gods, but it would make things a lot more complicated. 20:10:37 <02Darby> and didn't know about the entirely separate code block where they worshipped one of those three gods 20:11:29 <06dolorous_84348> Maybe there's a way to set it up in YAML, but my work with YAML is basing stuff on code that's already there, since I don't know quite enough to do it from scratch. 20:12:04 <06dolorous_84348> At least all the spelling is unified one way, so it's easier to switch to the other way? 20:12:10 <02Darby> seems like 20:12:35 <02Darby> I should actually check on that holy being code. I've had an idea for some time involving giving holy beings special lines for fighting worshippers of the good gods, and a sizeable writeup for it, but now that I think about it, it would be weird on holies such as xom angels. 20:13:30 <02Darby> (the tide turned against mechanical differences long before my time, but I feel like a purely dialogue easter egg would still make sense of the weirdness of fighting angels as e.g. an Ely worshipper) 20:13:49 <06dolorous_84348> Also, some things are set based on monster glyph, so profane servitors could get the wrong lines since they're 'A'. If not, I was thinking that maybe they could get the occasional line about how death makes all equal, or something similar. 20:13:58 <02Darby> good to consider 20:19:57 <06dolorous_84348> Also, since there are heretic orcs, maybe the list of altars could be expanded a bit? For example, with all the gold down there, shouldn't there be at least a few Gozag-worshipping orcs? 20:20:54 <02Darby> honestly, that heretic list feels like a mild clash with orcification flavor making orcs more sympathetic in general 20:21:07 <06dolorous_84348> Point. 20:22:46 <02Darby> (not an unjustifiable clash—they are heretics and not Beogh-worshippers, but it's definitely a selection from an older time, so there may be room to re-evaluate) 20:24:14 <06dolorous_84348> Indeed. The only god that would definitely be inappropriate for heretic orcs would be Zin, because Zin's the only un-orcifying god. 20:24:34 <06dolorous_84348> (They'd still be heretics, but not orcish ones anymore.) 20:24:57 <02Darby> is true 20:25:37 <09hellmonk> might be more interesting to expand orc altars as a selection of themed vaults 20:27:04 <06dolorous_84348> There was some commentary awhile back on having orc clerics in themed vaults, IIRC. The main difference from the orc priests would be that they could offer conversion even if you worshipped another god. 20:28:28 <06dolorous_84348> Themed vaults in general do sound good, though. 20:29:19 <09hellmonk> once the anti interlevel luring commit is in, we can add orcish excavators riding powered drilling machines that worship gozag as they dig and shoot gold at you 20:29:39 <06dolorous_84348> Which sounds totally awesome 🙂 20:39:35 <06dolorous_84348> But to go back to the idea of orc heretics, having them use god-appropriate invocations would be a lot of work for not much gain, unless maybe there was a unique worth the effort. (For similar reasons, the goblin sharper worships Nemelex and talks a lot about Nemelex, but has no invocations because coding such a complex thing as Nemelex cards for monsters would be a nightmare. The point of adding it was to have "cheeky goblin 20:39:36 saying 'Oooh! What does this card do?" to balance out "stuffy angel preaching about how Zin and Zin's Order is the One and Only True Way" more than anything else.) 20:40:19 that was actually what I was leading to with that comment 20:40:26 <02Darby> the goblin sharper is cool, yeah 20:40:36 <06dolorous_84348> Good to know. 20:40:55 I'm a little worried that noticeable gods for ordinary monsters might lead players to expect something along those lines, though 20:43:34 and, yeh, major mess if that were to come up; Beogh and Nem are the least of it. I think it'd only be viable for Makh/Trog/maybe Veh. Not even the good gods (what exactly happens if something invokes Pacification on a player?) 20:44:23 <02Darby> not to mention that random monsters using unexpected one-off abilities was already removed in the form of monster potion and scroll use 20:45:44 <02Darby> (honestly, a change that saddened me personally, as I had liked the occasional surprise of that sort from a monster, but throwing, wands, and gear remain, and it seemed like a generally successful change) 20:46:48 <02Darby> a unique could definitely explore that space as always, if a good enough design arose 20:55:31 <03implojin> i think it continues to be a good idea for usability to not give players reasons to xv every single monster they see even when they otherwise already know what it does because they need to check its spellbooks/items/weapons, but a unique with a randomish arsenal that players can learn about would be fine (but would still be better if supported with verbose tiling+comes into view descs to minimize player burden there) 20:57:05 as long as it's just a small number of uniques, sure. orc wizards became a lot easier to deal with when they didn't have the option of 3 different spellbooks 20:57:17 <03implojin> yeah. wouldn't want to go back to the days of randbooks 20:57:28 <02Darby> not sure anyone does 20:58:29 <02Darby> my comment on potions was purely personal feeling as a player at the time, I know when to defer to clear general sentiment 20:59:25 <02Darby> (but really, when I mentioned a unique exploring that space, even then I just meant "if we want a worshipper of an unexpected species / god combo, it can be reasonable in the form of a unique, no randomization necessary") 21:06:47 <06dolorous_84348> Something like Mlioglotl the Lugonu-worshipper (whom I just looked up the actual species of: thrashing horror)? 22:14:26 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-725-gf7730aa224: Fix a crash with examining submerged shops (Omelet, Darby) 10(60 seconds ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f7730aa224c3 22:35:49 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-725-gf7730aa224 (34) 22:58:54 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-725-gf7730aa224 23:30:18 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-725-gf7730aa224 (34) 23:55:55 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-725-gf7730aa224