00:59:08 -!- indigaz22 is now known as indigaz2 01:23:20 <07a​crobat> found two issue about new orbs. 1. when monsters use stardust orb, if player is located on different floor, its cooldown never recover no matter how much time passes. I'm not sure if this is actually a bug or if it can be easily fixed. 2. when picking up orbs that scales with evo skill, m menu should display evocation skill (as when picking up wands), but currently it does not. 01:23:20 <07a​crobat> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1402205319056068618/1.PNG?ex=689310f7&is=6891bf77&hm=857ea2d81fc5aec80ae8399a97ef1dc51700d227fe6dfc2669f1c2d3c137a5ce& 03:32:35 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:33:33 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-556-g32989d1 (34) 06:51:47 03nlavsky02 07* 0.34-a0-557-g67d493afc1: fix: let certain orbs activate Evocations training (acrobat) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 25+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/67d493afc1b7 07:16:07 <07a​crobat> 3. when you kill a monster 'with poison' while wearing pyromania orb, the explosion occurs on the next turn the monster dies, not the turn they die. 07:16:08 <07a​crobat> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1402294101235339365/pyro.mp4?ex=689363a7&is=68921227&hm=cdb23e2b64756e0dc1e835bbb34472aa87a35d1ed944e846ba080c4071c2bd1a& 07:51:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-558-gb13c4b51f1: Add a milestone for seeing your first zot orb statue 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b13c4b51f177 07:51:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-559-gd7cdb239b7: Fix Bane of Claustrophobia giving slaying instead of antislaying (Bn) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d7cdb239b7bf 07:51:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-560-gd0649960d3: Fix enemy orb cooldown (ie: for stardust) not expiring off-level (Acrobat) 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0649960d36f 07:53:32 <04d​racoomega> Hmm... this is a result of how pyromania explodes at-most once per turn. (ie: if you kill multiple things at once, the chance is rolled for each of them, but you only get a single explosion at the end of your turn.) But this means that deaths that happen after your turn also get rolled into this 'single explosion at end of turn' chance, which looks rather more confusing here. Could give you one explosion at the end of your turn 07:53:32 and another one at the start of your turn, but I wonder if that is also mildly confusing in a different way. (Though the current situation is probably still worse, since probably kills from clouds or toxic bog also have the wrong timing?) 07:55:07 <04d​racoomega> Confirmed, yeah 08:01:43 <07a​crobat> > Could give you one explosion at the end of your turn and another one at the start of your turn this means you can get two explosions per one turn...? no? 08:03:42 <04d​racoomega> I mean, that would be the effective result of this. Which is weird in a different way. Trying to figure out how to handle this that is the least weird. (I didn't want to let it explode once for each monster that died because I felt that would make it scale so much in crowds that it would be hard to balance still being relevant in smaller encounters. That was the original motivation for this. I neglected to think of this timing 08:03:43 problem, though.) 08:09:16 <04d​racoomega> I mean, it could explode only at the start of your turn, which would properly accumulate all kills that resulted from your actions in that complete turn (whether from direct damage or clouds, etc.). But that does mean that there's a 'delay' in killing things near you from direct damage and that feels potentially dangerous. This also wants you blowing stuff up with spells at close range; you probably don't want to give them extra 08:09:17 swings on you. 08:10:20 <07a​crobat> yeah that sounds bad 08:10:53 <04d​racoomega> Probably I use a fineff and make it happen immediately after a given death, and use an internal 'cooldown' that resets at the start of your turn 08:11:48 <07a​crobat> that sounds like right answer to me although I know nothing about the code xD 08:39:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-561-g0dae1da89c: Fix some orb of pyromania timing issues (Acrobat) 10(47 seconds ago, 6 files, 53+ 65-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0dae1da89cdc 09:13:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-562-g6e62d30407: Don't dismiss eldritch tentacles on player attacks (Acrobat) 10(65 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e62d30407f3 11:42:00 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-563-gce694dbfb0: Fix inverted logic in Nobody memory display (Ge0FF) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce694dbfb042 11:52:23 04Build failed for 08master @ ce694dbf 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/16758423659 15:28:49 jimmypageman (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(you.can_pass_through_feat(env.grid(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 645 failed. (Coc:4) 15:37:13 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.34-a0-564-gc73acace97: Clear custom tile flavors when ruining vaults 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c73acace9798 15:40:29 03DracoOmega02 {regret-index} 07* 0.34-a0-565-g43d37e0709: Refactor a bunch of code related to local tiles mouseover descriptions 10(3 weeks ago, 5 files, 148+ 450-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/43d37e070912 15:40:29 03DracoOmega02 {regret-index} 07* 0.34-a0-566-ge81f80b2e1: Rename an oddly-pluralized function 10(3 weeks ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e81f80b2e11d 15:40:29 03DracoOmega02 {regret-index} 07* 0.34-a0-567-g76c186180a: Add framework for a monster status description tab on xv 10(3 weeks ago, 7 files, 122+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76c186180ae4 15:40:29 03DracoOmega02 {regret-index} 07* 0.34-a0-568-g424bcd54a1: Rename internal name for monster Sign of Ruin enchant 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/424bcd54a139 15:40:29 03DracoOmega02 {regret-index} 07* 0.34-a0-569-g279f6177dc: Don't mention that a monster can't see you if it's blind 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/279f6177dc24 15:40:29 03regret-index02 07* 0.34-a0-570-gbb01f63bd2: Write the rest of the monster status descriptions 10(88 minutes ago, 1 file, 745+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb01f63bd2ca 15:40:29 03regret-index02 07* 0.34-a0-571-g75dcb34f46: A quick new sky beast zombie tile (Bn) 10(64 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/75dcb34f46e2 15:41:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-563-gce694dbfb0 (34) 16:19:51 <03i​mplojin> i'd like to suggest a minor rewording to the low-tier and high-tier stab monstatus: Your melee attacks may stab this creature, dealing extra damage if using a short blade. Stabbing scales with stealth, weapon skill, and dexterity. 16:20:07 <03i​mplojin> the existing descriptor feels a bit tortured and doesn't mention the word stab anywhere 16:20:54 <03i​mplojin> (yes, it was clearly going for mechanical accuracy, but it's okay to elide a bit here as long as we convey how it scales) 16:23:26 <03i​mplojin> and then of course s/may/will s/extra/massive for high-tier 16:38:53 <02M​onkooky> hm. My initial read of this is that 'non short blades don't stab' 16:40:07 <02M​onkooky> I guess it's not quite punctuated right for this but my first read was 'dealing extra damage' as a parenthetical 16:40:27 <03i​mplojin> comparing with the one that was just pushed: Melee attacks you make against this creature have a chance (proportional to your stealth and weapon skill) of catching it off-guard and dealing increased damage, especially if made with a short blade. 16:41:03 <02M​onkooky> the brevity is definitely a plus 16:41:21 <03i​mplojin> my goal here would be to get a description of stabbing front and center, without the parentheticals, in a way that players are likely to comprehend 16:41:26 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-572-g780caf05a1: Fix typos, spelling, and wording. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/780caf05a106 16:42:34 <02M​onkooky> Your melee attacks may stab this creature, dealing extra damage. Stabbing scales with stealth, weapon skill, and dexterity, and is more effective for short blades.? 16:42:35 <03i​mplojin> i'm only mentioning here instead of pushing directly because i don't wish to step on index's toes 16:43:44 <02M​onkooky> I'll stop kibitzing then 16:44:05 <03i​mplojin> no, the kibitzing is fine, if we can come up with more-clear wording that'd be great 16:44:18 <03i​mplojin> (thank you!) 17:54:24 <04d​racoomega> I wrote that part myself, actually. The issue I had (which I actually had with a few places I edited) is that we don't actually use 'stab' in-game to describe stabs in the existing places that do so. Like, stealth talks about increasing the likelihood of doing a great amount of damage when attacking a distracted or helpless creature and stabs itself just say that 'you catch such-and-such off-guard' (or sometimes not even that). I 17:54:25 realize that the player community uses 'stab' to describe this all the time, but I was specifically avoiding doing so because I felt that would be a little more opaque to anyone going entirely by what's in-game, which otherwise doesn't assume you have any idea what a 'stab' is. Is that just hitting them with a dagger, etc.? (I realize it's a bit wordy, which is one of the reasons I actually colored it differently so that it can be distinguished as a 17:54:25 'standard' clause for status effects that enable it, rather than needing to be reread every time.) Like, I agree that it would be nice to just say 'enables high-tier stabs' or 'enables low-tier stabs' if we said anywhere else in-game what those were. Probably this was a lot clearer in the days where there was just a skill named 'Stabbing', huh? 😛 17:54:30 <04d​racoomega> (There are actually issues with that sort of thing in some of the other status effects that affect monster HD, because we never show that anywhere and so each one has to basically individually mention everything it governs. Makes me wonder if we should explicate this anywhere (possibly under another name)) 17:55:14 <04d​racoomega> Like, at some point, tiptoeing around terminology that every informed player uses makes things harder to read, too 18:10:22 <03i​mplojin> I'd suggest that if we really don't use stab to describe stabs ingame anywhere player-facing that we should revisit that, because even the monstatus name here uses stab, its very silly to try to use alternate descriptors here, I don't think we need to use the specific language of low tier vs high tier as then we have to define what that means, rather, simply use language describing larger damage or guaranteed chance to hit where needed 18:10:22 (really i think this is likely too much detail) 18:14:13 <04d​racoomega> My stance on the monster status tab is that is specifically and only for "I want to get specific details on X", so erring on the side of being comprehensive is a good thing. A player doesn't go there unless they want to know exactly what something means, so I think it's good to try and be fairly exact about it. It's not like we are putting this in places the player ever needs to wade through (or even see at all when they xv a 18:14:14 monster), where brevity would be more important (imo). However, actually explicating 'stab' somewhere in-game to use consistently would probably be good. (Not exactly sure where/how is the best way of going about that at the moment.) 18:15:12 <04d​racoomega> Like, I see the tab as closer to 'looking up something in the rulebook', since all the information a player needs to know each game is already in the short line when you look at a monster, that we already had. 18:24:44 <03i​mplojin> also, a trivial search of the repo shows that we're describing stabs as stabs in the changelog, in options_guide, in item inscriptions, vampform lines, a bunch of stuff in describe e.g. "prevents you from stabbing unaware foes", "stabbing helpless or unaware enemies", i, uh, think the premise that we aren't already using stab terminology to communicate stabbing to players is pretty out there and the language in that commit just reads 18:24:44 as unnecessarily tortured 18:36:10 <04d​racoomega> Okay, that is more than I realized. I checked the only (as far as I know) place in-game that talks about skill scaling for stabs (ie: Stealth skill) and it never uses the term. And of course the messages for stabbing a monster also don't use the term. The vampire form bit was written by me before I 'remembered' that we don't use the term officially (and I feel like the changelog and technical documentation say a lot of things we 18:36:10 don't use in-game, though I may be wrong.) Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm splitting hairs here. I'd be happy if we did use the term in-game more explicitly, since it has a very clear mechanical meaning. But it would be nice if, when doing so, there was at least some easily accessible in-game place saying what it is, by that term, rather than an assortment of things saying "You're not allowed to do this" or "A bonus happens if you do 18:36:11 this." or trying to describe it without saying it. (I wonder if some of this historical avoidance of it in some places is that you can 'stab' with blunt weapons, which doesn't sound like the most intuitive terminology when used that way >.>) 18:38:38 <04d​racoomega> (And, as mentioned before, it would really be nice to be able to do this HD, too. A lot of things that check monster HD as a resistance are just trying their best to say it without saying it. 'Especially experienced enemies', 'stronger enemies', etc. Which probably doesn't help people who don't know what that means, except very indirectly. ) 18:38:59 <04d​racoomega> 'Strong' means and awful lot of things that aren't HD 18:45:45 <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (I had waffled back and forth on the exact phrasing of mentioning stabs in my original monstatus draft before Draco's editing went for a repeatable template approach. I do feel that being laboriously explicit is highly desirable on an interface previously dedicated to both covering many explicit numbers and outright containing many other long templates, like five lines surrounding every spell or how nearly every monster is 18:45:46 faster than a naga / slower than a spriggan.) 21:09:05 Krumphau (L2 MiFi) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:1) 21:09:06 bwicke (L1 MfIE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:1) 21:09:10 Hematite12 (L13 NaRe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Lair:5) 21:09:16 reasonance (L6 DrRe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:4) 21:09:23 deathanatos (L20 GrFi) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Shoals:3) 21:09:29 oxeimon (L10 MfIE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:7) 21:09:35 dlwiii (L26 DjCj) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 236: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Crypt:2) 22:35:30 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-572-g780caf05a1 (34) 22:46:08 03hellmonk02 07* 0.34-a0-573-gddf292f8a0: Reduce orb of glass vitrify chance. 10(68 seconds ago, 3 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ddf292f8a00f 22:58:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-572-g780caf05a1 23:30:23 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-573-gddf292f8a0 (34) 23:55:32 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-573-gddf292f8a0