00:59:41 -!- indigaz23 is now known as indigaz2 03:34:25 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:09:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-461-gf09bc62 (34) 08:08:15 The change to Putting on talismans instead of eVoking them has broken the ability to untransform 08:08:36 In forms there is no longer an End Transformation ability available 08:09:23 so the only way to untransform is to Remove the talisman 08:12:56 Actually I think this change was intended? 08:25:07 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-462-g75a88694f0: Add a confirm prompt to trove exits (dilly, particleface) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/75a88694f095 08:40:05 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-463-g69ce87f4c0: Remove some optional lua 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69ce87f4c009 10:11:52 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-464-gcfd1851050: Tweak a trove layout (particleface) 10(83 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cfd1851050c3 10:23:39 03Implojin02 07* 0.34-a0-465-ga9e21796be: Further tweak a devouring rift (regret-index) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9e21796bea9 11:19:58 -!- daethoven12 is now known as daethoven1 15:40:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-465-ga9e21796be (34) 18:25:17 <04dracoomega> @hellmonk I've been going through and doing cleanup on the new egos branch, and I was curious what the reasoning was for the different ego weights you gave to each shield type when you split them apart. I understand adding ponderous to tower shields, but it seems weird to me that reflection is less than half as common on tower shields than kite shields now? 18:25:27 <04dracoomega> Here are the actual percentages at the moment, by the way: 18:25:27 <04dracoomega> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1399201038204014652/image.png?ex=68882303&is=6886d183&hm=d5ae9473049efe9760698748f6652386602d46a3f30aea3a202e0bd64114fae0& 18:26:54 <09hellmonk> idk I was just messing around with some stuff and wanted to make the smaller and larger shields have more desirable egos (since they provide less sh and require more investment respectively). I think reflection shield ego is somewhat undesirable currently btw, because you can get it in amulet slot most games. 18:28:00 <09hellmonk> no real attachment to these numbers 18:28:55 <04dracoomega> Oh, huh. I guess I'm not sure where I'd exactly slot reflection in terms of power, but I guess my initial reaction was that reflection is clearly more useful on a shield with lots of SH 18:29:16 <04dracoomega> So it struck me as odd to be the least common on the shield with most SH 18:29:59 <04dracoomega> (I am not saying these numbers are necessarily bad, but I just wanted to understand the reasoning) 18:33:49 <04dracoomega> I was running objstat on all the new stuff and while I already wanted to make auxes with egos more common in a general sense, the numbers on some of these enhancers end up so low that I might want to be a little more aggressive about that than I'd expected. I mean, it's not surprising that the amulet one is the most common, but it's approximately 10 times as common as the average for the other schools. (I vaguely seem to recall 18:33:49 you wanting fire to be more common than the others for some reason? But despite the higher weight on gloves is actually still the rarest unless you're an unfortunate enough soul to only be able to wear hats on your head, where you find an average of a single hat of ice every 16.6 complete 3-rune games ^^; ) 18:34:15 <09hellmonk> huh 18:34:30 <09hellmonk> may need to add another fire enhancer on something else then 18:35:19 <04dracoomega> (This is not helped by the fact that nearly 50% of hats that are requested to have an ego get no ego. There are actually fewer ego hats in an average run than there are artefact hats.) 18:36:13 <04dracoomega> But yeah, most of the other stuff is like... 0.23-0.35 copies of each type of enhancer per game (but 2.2 amulets of alchemy) 18:36:51 <09hellmonk> not sure how many would be ideal since we also have staves, but I would like to keep fire a bit more common at least 18:37:03 <09hellmonk> the multi enhancer fireball classic 18:38:18 <04dracoomega> Still not 100% sure what we'll end up doing with staves before the version is out (but currently you get about 3.5 copies of every staff per game, apparently - which is obviously excluding ?acquirement, where they're also pretty common) 18:38:38 <04dracoomega> (And used to get slightly more than that in rings of fire/ice) 18:38:59 <09hellmonk> yeah, losing rings of fire is the main thing I'm worried about 18:39:13 <04dracoomega> Do you feel they were specifically more useful than rings of ice were? 18:40:03 <09hellmonk> I think I just used them more often, and getting enhancers is pretty necessary for fireball in particular imo 18:40:11 <09hellmonk> ring of ice probably quite good on permafrost now 18:40:43 <09hellmonk> but I think fire being a school that's easy to enhance for big damage feels good and thematic? So it'd be a shame to lose that 18:41:38 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I certainly don't object to the idea of that 18:44:48 <04dracoomega> I honestly feel reasonably comfortable boosting ego aux rate by a decent bit in general - they're more fun than plain stuff, anyway (...and some other system changes are likely to be nudging player power in the other direction in a little while anyway >.>). But I doubt I'm making them 10 times as common (to approach amulets of alchemy - which have a use for other mages, too!). I mean, maybe the texture of alchemy is that it's 18:44:48 easy to enhance and some bits could be nudged downward independently? I was probably going to move Irradiate to 6 after all is said and done. It might be nice in a general sense of ?acq had a higher chance to give armour enhancing a school you were invested in, but the implementation of that seems rather tricky due to how items are created. 18:46:07 <09hellmonk> swap fire enhancer to the amulet slot and alchemy enhancer to the glove slot, clearly 18:46:16 <09hellmonk> (this ruins the potion effect though) 18:46:28 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I thought the same thing during this conversation. Both parts >.> 18:47:34 <04dracoomega> (Maybe it wants an orb >.>; ) 18:47:45 <04dracoomega> "Hold the Orb of Fire in your hand. It'll be fine." 18:47:46 <04dracoomega> >.> 18:48:11 <09hellmonk> I thought about a flame orb ego of some sort but didn't want to move on that without deciding about 2h staves first 18:48:25 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I hadn't really solidified what the plan was there either 18:48:28 <09hellmonk> since we talked about giving those double enhancers, which might make it pointless/weird 18:49:24 <09hellmonk> I think I actually like swapping fire/alchemy slots and finding a new secondary gimmick 18:51:16 <04dracoomega> Like, of various things that were floated around there was 'lajatang enhancer', 'two-handed double-enhancer' , and eventually that somehow ended up in 'two-handed enhancer, but it gives an orb slot', which itself ends up being a bit like the current staves except that you don't get a shield or fast-swap. (But I know Index also personally dislikes staff fast swap enough that she'd probably be fine expunging it in one way or 18:51:17 another. I think in past she pondered making them need to attune at max MP like MPRegen and such does. Two-hander+orb does do this on its own unless someone wants to not use an orb at all, of course) 19:05:19 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I would be fine with max-MP attunement staves, but do loathe swapping between multiple staves being optimal for a character with sufficiently varied spells, yes; swapping between two main weapon slots is fine in many other scenarios, but staves want to do it more often and manually swapping around past the first staff is already much worse UI-wise.) 19:08:41 <04dracoomega> I guess max-MP-attune means you could start any battle with a staff for the enhancer and then quick swap to some weapon to hit things after, but not get the enhancer back until the battle was over. Not 100% sure how I feel about that. 19:09:25 <04dracoomega> I guess I worry slightly about a realistic scenario of 'End battle with weapon out, autoexplore to next battle, cast one spell before forgetting that your staff isn't out, and then get no benefit if you swap to it.' 19:09:51 how much work would it be to only make that happen if swapping to a different enhancer? 19:10:04 <04dracoomega> Oh, like 'attune to one staff at a time' sort of deal? 19:10:08 yes 19:10:31 so you can switch to a weapon if needed but only switch back to the staff you started with if not at maxmp 19:10:36 <04dracoomega> Shouldn't be too hard on a technical level. I wonder if it's a bit opaque to players, though. I guess we could maybe show 'attuned' on the staff or something. 19:44:55 <04dracoomega> Chatting with Index a bit more, I feel like I am leaning away from the orbstaff thing. It's still different than a base staff plus orb, but probably not really enough to justify itself, design-wise, compared to other options. And changing basic enhancer staves into that would probably be an item diversity loss to a whole bunch of characters, so probably also inadvisable. (Now, maybe some unrand staff that gave you more than one 19:44:55 orb slot, on the other hand...) I am not sure what form any theoretical double-enhancer two-hander staff would actually take. I got the impression this was probably supposed to be an actual useful physical weapon, too. I assume fairly rare? Don't know if this was supposed to be 'harder to use than a lajatang' base type or just a weird lajatang brand. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakkhara is a kind of cool staff...) 19:46:06 <04dracoomega> But I also think that a fire enhancer would be easy to fold into one of my existing draft orb ideas, which was something like "Chance of causing a player-centered explosion when you kill something with a spell." Orb of Pyroclasm? Orb of Conflagration? Orb of Pyromania? Who knows. 19:47:18 <08nicolae> orb of kerplosions 19:47:26 <08nicolae> orbstaff unrand 20:06:27 @dracoomega perhaps if they have the right potions those could blow up, I remember nethack would force an explosion if you put too many magical things in the bag of holding 22:19:25 03Perry Fraser02 {GitHub} 07* 0.34-a0-466-g202f19ae06: fix: make '[X] to wear' text coloring gray (#4675) 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/202f19ae06af 22:35:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-466-g202f19ae06 (34) 22:55:45 03hellmonk02 07* 0.34-a0-467-gf537972d3b: Improve a tempering message (projectNoob) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f537972d3b69 22:57:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-466-g202f19ae06 23:13:42 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-467-gf537972d3b (34) 23:17:08 03hellmonk02 07* 0.34-a0-468-gec60261d0a: Let gods protect neutrals from bog (yrdzrfxndfvh) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec60261d0a04 23:36:28 New branch created: catwardfortypaws (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/catwardfortypaws 23:36:29 03hellmonk02 07[catwardfortypaws] * 0.34-a0-469-gd9f17e1da3: Refactor weapon handedness description (projectNoob) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9f17e1da373 23:37:33 New branch created: pull/4684 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4684 23:37:33 Branch pull/4684 updated to be equal with catwardfortypaws: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4684 23:54:40 New branch created: pull/4685 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4685 23:54:40 03radio-gra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4685 * 0.34-a0-462-gb091793ef8: make fire and ice dragon scales have the same base AC 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b091793ef83c 23:55:16 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-468-gec60261d0a