00:08:22 Stable (0.33) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33.1-12-g363e1cdcc9 00:35:07 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1909-g0270d88442 (34) 00:56:02 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1909-g0270d88442 01:24:16 New branch created: pull/4994 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4994 01:24:17 03tianmaster02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4994 * 0.34-a0-1910-g8007ee5b2c: fix mouse click prompt "YesorNo" 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8007ee5b2c7c 01:34:01 Stable (0.33) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33.1-12-g363e1cdcc9 04:45:39 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 04:45:39 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 05:34:29 Stable (0.33) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33.1-12-g363e1cd 06:09:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1909-g0270d88 (34) 09:42:17 03regret-index02 07* 0.34-a0-1910-g71567ef324: Fix a teleport closet in nicolae_vaults_little_squares_5 (various) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/71567ef324b2 09:42:17 03regret-index02 07* 0.34-a0-1911-g15974c44ed: A few more recently-added mutation icons 10(28 minutes ago, 7 files, 9+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/15974c44edb5 11:31:10 <11Odds> (Oh, that commit should acknowledge the reporter, will fix) 11:31:33 New branch created: pull/4995 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4995 11:31:33 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4995 * 0.34-a0-1912-ga84e09d420: Fix display for sphinx form airstrike damage 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a84e09d4206f 11:32:39 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4995 * 0.34-a0-1912-g781df3221c: Fix display for sphinx form airstrike damage (Zigmound) 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/781df3221c78 11:32:53 <04dracoomega> Oh, huh. I apparently didn't check all of them. (There was a related problem with dragon form breath that I did fix) 11:35:21 <11Odds> Took me moment to work out why there can only be 7 open spaces for sphinx airstrike rather than the traditional 8. Bit of manifold assault erasure there! 11:39:55 <04dracoomega> Ha. I actually didn't think about that part. 11:40:54 <04dracoomega> Looks like it actually will do a bit more damage with manifold assault than normal melee, huh 11:41:15 <04dracoomega> (Though I'm not sure if form properties max damage really ought to take that into account or not) 11:41:18 <11Odds> Quite a lot more really! 11:41:29 <11Odds> I don't think displaying 1-5dX would be a good idea here, no 11:41:55 <04dracoomega> Right, it gets a whole additional die, due to rounding 11:42:13 <04dracoomega> (I wonder instead at just capping it at 7, tbh) 11:43:01 <11Odds> Yeah, I think I prefer that to any of the other solutions (which are displaying 1-5 or lying slightly) 11:43:29 <11Odds> (Or actually spelling it out I guess, but I don't fancy that at all) 11:44:36 <04dracoomega> Yeah, it seems unnecessary when it's specific to one spell in specific circumstances 11:44:51 <04dracoomega> I'll make a note of it 15:24:56 New branch created: pull/4997 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4997 15:24:57 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4997 * 0.34-a0-1912-gfa5688465c: Fix digging targetters leaking diggability 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa5688465c0c 15:26:34 <04dracoomega> To be perfectly honest, I'm not certain there's a good reason not to show the actual wall type when you use ?revelation, is there? Like, what value is there in hiding this? 15:27:06 <04dracoomega> It's usually unambiguous if you recognize the vault anyway 15:27:14 <04dracoomega> Just mildly confusing 15:28:06 <11Odds> Not everything is a vault, but yeah I can't immediately think of a good reason 15:30:31 <11Odds> We'd still need the same "fog of war" state to show the player where they've not been, but it could have all the real tiles and things that interact with terrain could know what to expect 15:31:07 <04dracoomega> There was already proper handling for never-seen tiles and digging, right? 15:31:32 <11Odds> Yeah, the targetter just doesn't go into the blackness 15:31:36 <04dracoomega> Just not 'detected, but not yet seen for real' tiles 15:31:47 <04dracoomega> And I don't really see an argument not to just properly reveal those 15:32:27 <04dracoomega> Non-default wall types are almost always vaults you could recognize from the layout with enough knowledge 15:33:01 <04dracoomega> Perhaps there are a couple exceptions (ie: 'usually rock, but sometimes crystal') but I'm not sure that's worth worrying about 15:33:11 <04dracoomega> Though I can ask Index her opinion on that when she's around 15:34:55 <04dracoomega> I am reminded of Xom monster detection stil using genus tiles, which leads to some alarming results sometimes (all golems - even saltlings - look like iron golems, for instance) 15:35:22 <11Odds> Yeah that one I like rather less 15:35:40 <11Odds> If you know the monster set for a level and all the genuses it’s very helpful 15:35:52 <04dracoomega> More confusably, frilled lizards look like iguanas and those do actually overlap 15:36:09 <11Odds> Here at least the spoileriness doesn’t confer much advantage 15:36:11 <04dracoomega> (I have seen somewhat okay with this, since it's Xom) 15:36:28 <04dracoomega> Where 'confusing and sometimes tricking the player' is at least on-theme 15:36:44 <04dracoomega> (Even if it's just a result of the code being truly ancient) 15:37:08 <11Odds> Xom should trick the experienced too 🙂 15:37:29 <04dracoomega> I didn't say it was great, but I was in less of a rush to do something about it, at least 15:38:52 <11Odds> I do quite like it as an experience 15:39:10 <11Odds> A moment of confusion and then I remember what’s going on 15:41:06 <11Odds> IMO occasionally polymorph things into their genus representative 15:41:19 <08o____0> It's kind of a silly player trick when you xv the tile and see that it's not necessarily what it looks like 😅 Maybe an easy fix would be placing a new marker over the genus tile? Like a big ? centered on it? I guess an alternative would be to make new tiles that are outlines of the genus tiles 15:42:21 <04dracoomega> I don't think you can xv detected monsters? 15:42:27 <04dracoomega> Maybe I am wrong 15:42:33 <04dracoomega> Er, ones detected this way, I mean 15:44:53 <04dracoomega> Genus is very silly, anyway. A handful of monsters use sensible groupings this way and many do not. Most demons are their own genus, for instance. 15:45:06 <04dracoomega> It's not really a sensible player-facing category for most purposes 15:46:24 <04dracoomega> (It's why I cut out most genus grouping in encounter messages. '10 humans come into view' Which 10 humans? It could be wildly divergent in importance. 15:47:58 <04dracoomega> (I am a little amused at the idea of Xom properly revealing monsters but every now and again just lying to you >.>; ) 15:48:18 <02Darby> you know, I kind of do like it 15:48:31 <02Darby> genus is one of those things that could've gone the route of being more player-facing and relevant but at this point feels like probably the wrong direction 15:49:04 <02Darby> I won't call it vestigial since it's used for mildly important things "behind the scenes" 15:49:15 <04dracoomega> (I am not sure how easy it is to lie to the player in ways that aren't transparent with experience) 15:49:34 <04dracoomega> Why yes, this vault warden band has a vault warden and 4 yaktaurs and a juggernaut 15:49:44 <04dracoomega> Wink, wink, nudge, nudge 15:50:05 <11Odds> Xom can make the lie true sometimes 15:50:09 <04dracoomega> Haha 15:50:22 <04dracoomega> So that even experienced players couldn't know it was untrue 15:50:31 <04dracoomega> They might think it was probably a lie, but you'd really never know for sure 15:50:48 <02Darby> and Xom already polymorphs monsters 15:50:50 <04dracoomega> Perhaps Nikola really is around that corner.... 15:51:06 <08o____0> Xv I think I did it... today or yesterday haha 15:51:18 <04dracoomega> Actually, I am just imagining taking a unique that is actually on the floor and then revealing their location in like 20 different places 15:51:32 <11Odds> Nice 15:51:38 <04dracoomega> "You detect Mennas x 17" 15:51:57 <11Odds> That’s just me when I’m carrying an orb of light 15:52:02 <04dracoomega> Haha 15:52:20 <04dracoomega> I definitely have been very paranoid around things that turned out to just be an orc knight before 15:52:30 <04dracoomega> (Which is a good sort of moment, imo) 15:52:46 <04dracoomega> The one thing that made me sad when removing orbs of light >.> 15:52:56 <11Odds> Oh right it’s helmets now 15:53:00 <04dracoomega> Since monsters won't pick up and put on helmets 15:53:09 <11Odds> Wait what does a monk get? 15:53:20 <04dracoomega> Monks still get it (for now, at least) but it doesn't naturally spawn 15:53:28 <08o____0> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1453158596085944412/Jg4ixsi.png?ex=694c6ee7&is=694b1d67&hm=c6d06eee70a1f05a2e9727f4eebcacd0e935f3e87e0f0d74507f4a6a74245bad& 15:53:32 <11Odds> Huh, a background with a unique item! 15:53:50 <04dracoomega> Well, you can already get 'unique for that seed' items with item set stuff 15:53:58 <04dracoomega> Not quite as unique, of course 15:54:05 <02Darby> if anything, slightly moreso 15:54:15 <11Odds> Ah yes, iceblast 15:54:16 <02Darby> artificers are the only case of no_exclude 15:54:19 <04dracoomega> (Technically, I think there's exactly one vault in the game that can generate an orb of light, since it was very specifically supposed to be a dead player monk) 15:54:22 <02Darby> there is one case of a vault spawning an orb of light 15:54:24 <02Darby> that yes 15:54:55 <04dracoomega> Hunters get ?butterflies 15:55:03 <02Darby> oh right that's set 15:55:19 <02Darby> as do CK on a closer look 15:55:24 <04dracoomega> Ah, right 15:56:02 <11Odds> On the walls - I could look into make revelation reveal wall types if that’s the preferred direction (not tonight though) 15:57:00 <04dracoomega> It's what I would be in favor of, at least - short of someone providing a convincing counterargument 15:57:11 <04dracoomega> (Though I don't know what that would be) 16:32:38 <08nicolae> i've got one in the overflow vaults though it's got a tiny chance and is not super important 16:33:10 <04dracoomega> Yes, I hardly think that's consequential to learn via ?rev 16:38:28 <06regret-⸸nde※> It saves me the trouble of having to make an actual proper rock tile for Dis as literally never contains rock but always displays rock, so I'm all for it. 16:41:55 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-1911-g15974c44ed (34) 16:53:20 <02Darby> ?rev imprecision is, like, maybe relevant in identifying portals from shops or the occasional altar by identifying the vaults involved, and that's probably the most of it 16:54:54 <04dracoomega> Yes, disguising which portal is which does actually have a real impact, I guess 16:55:03 <04dracoomega> I have definitely run after some portals only to find they were shops, bfore 16:58:31 <11Odds> There’s already a lot of identifying of vaults that can be done with enough knowledge or effort… not at all sure how often wall types are the clincher 16:58:57 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I'm not worried about wall types 16:59:15 <04dracoomega> But portals/shops can spawn without any distinguishing vaults around them at all, so that does at least have impact 16:59:21 <11Odds> Oh right revealing the portal themselves 16:59:46 <04dracoomega> (Even there I'm not convinced that it being ambiguous is actually critical to preserve, but it is at least relevant - whereas I think walls almost never are) 17:00:36 <11Odds> Right, the portals are relevant but imo actually good because the “identify the vault” minigame you get in depths at the moment is knowledge-heavy and not much fun 17:01:56 <11Odds> Ash would be upset though 23:00:44 Vasmohzif (L26 PoEn) ASSERT(can_pass_through_feat(env.grid(newpos))) in 'player.cc' at line 653 failed. (Slime:1) 23:06:56 <08o____0> https://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Vasmohzif/crash-Vasmohzif-20251224-060044.txt they tried to grande finale a plasmodium 23:17:22 <02Darby> wait it took until now for someone to try to grand finale a wall monster? 23:17:40 <02Darby> I mean, I've no room to talk, I should've surely tried the same a long time ago 23:17:44 <08o____0> Yeah I am a bit surprised but I guess rock fishes aren't prime grand finale targets haha 23:17:50 <02Darby> very fair 23:18:04 <02Darby> (to be clear, I did test to ensure this wasn't plasmodium-specific before saying that) 23:35:51 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1911-g15974c44ed (34) 23:59:25 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1911-g15974c44ed