00:34:49 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1845-g830d4154b1 (34)
04:32:29 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b
05:35:35 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1845-g830d415 (34)
11:59:43 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1846-g28fbe87789: Adjust artefacts' "chaos names." 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28fbe87789de
13:36:53 <senoraraton> So currently there is the cast screen, and then there is "I" which shows spell descriptions. These descriptions should just be avaliable INSIDE the cast screen.  I propse we leave I as legacy and it defaults to Spell descriptions changing no functionality, but we combine the screen so that cast/descriptions use the same interface, and we just add an I toggle IN the interface to II would give you
13:36:59 <senoraraton> the cast menu.
13:38:42 <senoraraton> O I is toggle spell headers, so there would be some moving around of shortcuts.
13:42:50 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> z doesn't even show a menu by default, so I would never be "legacy"
13:42:57 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> since it's fewer keystrokes when you want spell information
13:43:14 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> the most one could probably do is add a toggle to z to read a full spell description
13:43:28 <senoraraton> There should be full spell descriptions in the cast menu. thats my argument.
13:44:00 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> yes and if you wanted to do that, you would do it via a toggle on z
13:44:22 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> since by default people want to cast on z and they can get the info they need from headers 90% of the time
13:44:53 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> it's really not much work to just pull up I so this is not really some crucial omission from the z menu anyhow
13:45:05 <senoraraton> My argument was to combine the interfaces for code simplicity and just set a flag for the default that gets passed, so you could maintain I support. I don't care how its implemented, I just think descriptions should be IN the cast menu
13:45:37 <senoraraton> Its an ommission.  People cast spells, a lot.  Why NOT have a more robust interface that is more accesible?
13:45:39 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> there is no code simplicity really, since you have to retain I as a "legacy" option
13:45:57 <senoraraton> You can 100% simplify it, I just links to the new imlementation which takes the default flag.
13:46:16 <senoraraton> Then its not two different interfaces, its one interface.
13:46:44 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> you can't because they're fundamentally  different menus with some subtle differences in what they're trying to do
13:47:07 <senoraraton> Yes you can.
13:47:11 <senoraraton> Fine. I won't contribute.
13:47:58 <senoraraton> Its such a trivial optimization that its like the perfect project to onbard someone.
13:48:25 <senoraraton> Nah, lets shut it down and not actually provide any underlying reason, but "its different" when the menus are structured almost identically already.
13:49:07 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> look, you show up every 6-12 mo. or so in the roguelikes discord to concern troll and then leave in a huff. It's tolerated there since you're technically not against the rules
13:49:15 <senoraraton> Its a trivial change, I is not well documented.  Casting spells is a common action. Not having descriptions in the cast menu is 100% an oversight.  But I digress.. Its your project, do whatever the fuck you want.
13:49:24 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> but this is not the roguelikes discord, and we will moderate you
13:49:30 <senoraraton> ?
13:49:39 <senoraraton> We are having a software conversation, wtf are you on about.
13:50:21 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> just giving you a heads up that if you show up routinely here and start these drama spirals, you'll get kicked from the channel
13:50:24 <senoraraton> I'm not in the roguelikes discord. I'm the crawl-dev chat. Presenting a dev issue, and offering free labor to implement it.
13:50:57 <senoraraton> That is not a heads up, that is a threat.
13:50:59 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> if you want to discuss/contribute in good faith in a polite way, that's fine, but starting off these "offers" of help with combatativeness is not helping your image, given your past history
13:51:19 <senoraraton> I'm was disengaging before you start threatening me.
13:51:29 <senoraraton> I made my peace, offered my labor, was rejected, and was walking away.
13:51:56 <senoraraton> I'm not the one not acting in "good faith" here.
14:00:18 <senoraraton> So then how am I supposed to contribute in this scenario if you rail-roaded me?  You didn't really give me an on ramp did you.
14:00:20 <Cbrotell> Santabuttstuff (L17 DsCK) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Lair:2)
14:01:47 <senoraraton> I'm sorry thats a bit aggressive, but its clear your previous biases are playing in to whatt I considered an engineering discussion.
14:02:04 <senoraraton> I think your position is one rooted not in the idea, but in the person who presented the idea.
14:02:31 <senoraraton> Which leaves me feeling unheard, and unappreciated that I was making an effort to find something to actually provide something positive for the community as a whole.
14:03:28 <senoraraton> and the simple reality of that situation is, either WE find a way for me to integrate and contribute to the community, or we end up in this passive aggressive cycle over and over.
14:04:37 <adelrune> I'm not part of the dev team but if you think what you propose is technically feasable you could write the code and open a PR ?
14:05:08 <senoraraton> I would. I came here hoping to find guidance and support. I want to ensure that there aren't underlying project structures that make this impossible, and I just wanted some to say what you just said.
14:05:22 <senoraraton> That is NOT the reaction I got, I got a pedantic argument about how its not feasible, and essentially a go away.
14:07:11 <senoraraton> Most often times random PRs without and contact are just thrown away, and writing code takes time.
14:07:26 <senoraraton> Its not free.  Its best to check, and ironically its also a barometer for the development culture of the project.
14:09:28 <senoraraton> I mean it wasn't even really covert. It was "No. I will ban you".  Thats not very welcoming.
14:16:17 <senoraraton> Nor does it really leave any way again for me to integrate into the community.
14:16:54 <adelrune> I'm not sure bitching about it on the dev chat is going to make it better for you
14:17:42 <senoraraton> I'm not "bitching".
14:17:58 <senoraraton> I'm laying out my current position, and my perceptions in a rational and public way, such that they can either be ignored, or engaged with.
14:18:48 <senoraraton> I'm presenting my experience, and in THIS chat specifically why I have acted the way I have. I think I have been open, honest, and mature about it.  I don't know what more I'm supposed to do other than fuck off. If thats really the communities reaction to people trying to contribute... I mean.. ok
14:19:33 <Discord|> <11O​dds> I doubt it's going to help, but as a random observer (and extremely minor contributor) with zero knowledge of the history who has found the dev team welcoming, I expected this interaction to go badly when I saw your first message. It's hard to analyse that exactly, but think it mostly boils down to you stating your opinion about what should be done here as absolute fact. And then you didn't really engage with the points gammafunk made, or
14:19:34 <Discord|> show any curiosity about e.g. discussing how these menus are doing different things. It is not a style of discussion that makes it easy to reach a consensus on how to proceed.
14:20:11 <senoraraton> In software though, if you don't have a clear implementation plan, its a nightmare.
14:20:38 <senoraraton> I wanted to present a clear implementation plan, and a structure of why.  I think the response should have been what adelrune said. Go write the PR and lets take a look at it.
14:21:22 <senoraraton> Like if your going to drive the engineering design, then you have to point it somewhere. I wanted to drive the design because I'm going to write the code, and I'm doing it for something that I see as a problem.
14:22:04 <senoraraton> You have to encourage the work, and then mold it, or reject. But rejecting it wholesale outright upfront should be reversed for fundamental breaking changes. THis isn't a fundamental breaking change, its a tiny interface tweak.
14:22:19 <senoraraton> Its a simple dev project, and its a GREAT entry point not only in to the code base but the community. Thats why I presented it.
14:24:06 <senoraraton> Largely I don't think there does need to be a concensus up front, and trying to form one is fallacious in software.
14:24:37 <senoraraton> The concensus comes from seeing the implementation and judging its merits, but there does have to be SOME onramp in to the community, some oversight.
14:24:42 <Discord|> <11O​dds> I think for this there'd need to be consensus on "should the two menus be the same"? Which it sounds like there isn't.
14:25:16 <senoraraton> Then how do we find that concensus?  Gammafunk left after threatening to ban me, or at the very least hasn't engaged.  This IS the correct place for that dicussion right?
14:27:09 <Discord|> <08o​____0> (btw you can see spell descriptions in the z? menu by having the spell highlighted and pressing ?)
14:27:58 <senoraraton> How do you "highlight" them.
14:28:11 <senoraraton> Pushing their letter casts them. Its the cast menu.
14:28:22 <Discord|> <08o​____0> (I would prefer it worked like the ability menu where you toggled description/casting with ? and I think at some point it did work that way)
14:28:30 <Discord|> <08o​____0> arrow keys or mouse
14:28:31 <senoraraton> Thats what I'm proposing.
14:28:40 <Discord|> <11O​dds> Huh that's weird!
14:28:48 <senoraraton> That the descriptions should live within the cast menu, they can live elsewhere but they 100% should be there.
14:29:15 <senoraraton> And from a software perspective, if your not an engineer.
14:29:47 <senoraraton> If you combine the interfaces to a single interface, it makes it easier to maintain, that was why I wanted to wrap I around the description thing. Its mostly cosmetic, but it does bind the two functions together.
14:30:46 <senoraraton> But they should be bound together, IMHO because they are all "run time" cast information, and I is just not useful.  If you want to know what a spell does, go cast it and then check it, JUST like spell memorization works.  We don't need this vistigal I menu at all, but it CAN be maintained for legacly purposes cleanly
14:32:56 <senoraraton> Also the acquirement menu has a similar design of "get/examine" just like the ability. Spell casting is like the odd one out.
14:34:06 <Discord|> <11O​dds> The big difference with spellcasting is that the menu doesn't come up by default. This makes I useful for much more simply seeing descriptions.
14:34:42 <senoraraton> BUT if we combine the interfaces, I can still exist, it can just be the SAME interface just defaulted to descriptions not cast.  That was my argument as least.
14:34:44 <Discord|> <11O​dds> Those descriptions could still be on z* as well - but IMO I is useful for out of combat spell thinking.
14:34:46 <Discord|> <05i​coson> z and I already are using the same code for the menu part
14:34:49 <adelrune> you know, I just looked up your name in the discord history and I'm starting to understand why you didn't get a warm welcome... You can't really expect your past interactions with people in here to be ignored entirely.
14:34:59 <Discord|> <05i​coson> the function is list_spells in spl-cast.cc
14:35:30 <senoraraton> All the more pointing to why the solution is both elegant, and practically feasible from an engineering standpoint.
14:37:39 <senoraraton> @icoson You just add a new entry at             new ToggleableMenuEntry(?  I could go look at how the spellcasting menu does it.
14:42:52 <senoraraton> ROFLMAO
14:43:00 <senoraraton> "    // TODO: add toggling to describe mode with `?`, add help string, etc..."
14:43:15 <senoraraton> Its even commented IN the code to fix this.
14:43:18 <senoraraton> I rest my case.
14:44:48 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yes, I'm the one that wrote that comment
14:45:05 <Discord|> <05i​coson> it's also what gamma suggested ("yes and if you wanted to do that, you would do it via a toggle on z")
14:48:31 <senoraraton> Why was the old prompt removed?  Just to clean up interface spam?
14:49:00 <senoraraton> Or is that just my RC?
14:49:09 <Discord|> <05i​coson> old prompt?
14:50:20 <senoraraton> Why does I control the spell header here, when I controls spell descriptions at the global scope would be my first question.
14:50:46 <senoraraton> If your going to add a toggle, the toggle for decs should be on I and headers would have to move somewhere else for consistency?
14:53:26 <Discord|> <05i​coson> I would put the toggle on ? for consistency with the ability menu (echoing @o____0 above)
14:53:34 <adelrune> they quit
14:53:51 <Discord|> <05i​coson> ah thx
14:54:26 <Discord|> <05i​coson> well to answer the question for posterity, I controls the header in the I menu and I believe I made it do the same thing (or it already did that) in the cast menu for consistency
14:54:44 <adelrune> I really feel like they were looking for a fight, they have a history of calling the dev team an opaque cabal...
14:54:50 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yeah I'm aware
14:55:01 <Discord|> <05i​coson> I also think there might be a missing hint in these menus? At least in console there's no hint for I or !
14:55:33 <adelrune> I must admit I didn't know there was a way to get spell description from the z? menu and if there was I'd be happier
14:56:08 <Discord|> <05i​coson> maybe someone said this above but ? describes the selected spell (the hint is misleading)
14:56:22 <Discord|> <05i​coson> if you disable selecting then there's no way to do it iirc
14:57:22 <Discord|> <05i​coson> (cleaning this menu up further was on my list back in the day, but I never got to it, I imagine a drama-free take on this would be very welcome)
14:57:28 <adelrune> aybe just changing the [?] help to [?] describe would help ?
14:57:36 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yeah
14:57:59 <Discord|> <08o​____0> The I/! hint is there on the cast screen in tiles
14:58:00 <Discord|> <08o​____0> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1451332692825215290/9eDZR2m.png?ex=6945ca66&is=694478e6&hm=1f31a5f52f5a5fd1ad7419a7d8f649b5e8d128a0e61b34efd2d2c7917cb7608a&
14:58:03 <adelrune> I'll see if I have some time this evening to look at the code, shouldn't be too hard
14:58:14 <Discord|> <05i​coson> huh
14:58:14 <adelrune> yes, the I hint is very clear
14:58:20 <Discord|> <05i​coson> so there's a tiles/console mismatch here too
14:58:35 <adelrune> (at least in webtiles)
14:58:36 <Discord|> <05i​coson> that hint is missing from console
14:58:51 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i know we've talked about this toggle for many years (per yr comment)
14:59:09 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> the inconsistency is interesting.
14:59:25 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> it feels familiar, but i might be imagining that...
14:59:38 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yeah, entirely possible there are further reasons I didn't go forward
14:59:51 <Discord|> <05i​coson> the initial implementation (which is where the shared menu code comes from) is like 2007
15:00:56 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> like, i think the toggle is good. i agree with your comment
15:01:10 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i had an item on my own infamous TODO to implement it
15:01:29 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> the historic issue being "discoverability of the I menu is not that great"
15:01:58 <Discord|> <05i​coson> on a side now how is the TODO tile not a discourse emoji for this discourse
15:02:14 <Discord|> <05i​coson> *discord
15:02:15 <Discord|> <05i​coson> whatever we're in
15:03:46 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> adding it sounds like a good :TODO:
15:04:08 <Discord|> <05i​coson> oops we both just did it
15:04:10 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> lol
15:04:13 <Discord|> <05i​coson> I'll delete mine
15:04:46 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> looking at the other emoji and trying to figure out when :HappyFeet: would be used
15:05:57 <Discord|> <05i​coson> in the other discord gamma uses that one so I'm gonna blame him 😄
15:23:41 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> always a safe bet
15:40:55 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> it's happy feet! for when you're so happy that you have to move your feet!
15:42:16 <Discord|> <11O​dds> That's a penguin not... whatever that is
15:43:33 <Discord|> <08o​____0> Th at you can't distortion-banish TRJ anymore is distortion QoL haha
15:43:53 <Discord|> <08o​____0> I meant that for the other chat >.>
15:45:26 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> fwiw that was my favorite of the new large abom tiles that worms made years ago, and I asked them if any had names, and he said something like "no....except the one with a bunch of legs is called happyfeet"
15:58:33 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> heh
15:58:35 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> well worth immortalizing
16:39:42 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-1846-g28fbe87789 (34)
17:22:27 <geekosaur> I'm getting a lot of warnings about warning: 'cannot_move' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override' [-Winconsistent-missing-override]
17:22:50 <geekosaur> (^S/^Q still useful, who knew?)
18:04:47 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1847-g45f4f77eb7: Fix override warning. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45f4f77eb731
19:17:44 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1848-g51ba481b41: Add another gizmo adjective. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/51ba481b41a1
19:41:04 <Henzell> horredbonez (L9 DsCj) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:9)
21:22:01 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> got to keep that orc count up to date and accurate
21:22:14 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1849-ga4dabe5d3f: Add another orc name, and update the count. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4dabe5d3f8b
23:17:05 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1850-g8a85f5c4e6: Make wizmode super-heal do more (tekkud). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a85f5c4e67f
23:34:14 <NotCheibriados> 03regret-index02 07* 0.34-a0-1851-g97f4fcf8e3: Changelog updates through 8a85f5c 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 165+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97f4fcf8e340
23:35:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> So, I played a handful of sludge elves. Got one to Zot, another to S-branches (and a couple before that point). And hashed out the experience with Index and Darby as I attempted to articulate my thoughts on it.   There are a handful of implementation issues (for instance, it's impossible to examine the form properties of your innate form or see its skill requirements - even after transforming into it), but beyond that, I have come to
23:35:24 <Discord|> feel that several of the things it's trying to do don't really work in practice. (And please don't take this as a criticism of the concept, since I do like the thrust of what it's trying to do and actually spent a while pondering how that could be more effectively achieved.)
23:35:26 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Some observations:   1) Protean Grace probably doesn't actually interact very well with things that aren't Xom/Jiyva in general. I like the idea of incentivizing drinking !mutation, but the way the formulas work, even if you chain-quaff every !mut you get your hands on, it's quite hard to rise above 4 mutations (ie: 2 EV/slay). There isn't much the player can do about this short of gods or getting malmutated. This isn't just a sludge
23:35:27 <Discord|> elf problem, but of course it's even more visible there.   2) The 'single innate form' has a very high chance of picking something that a given character has a virtually 0% chance of ever using. I rolled storm form on an air elementalist once and there is no way that could ever be relevant to my gameplan, so the perk might as well not exist. (I don't think it's bad if sometimes some characters ignore a gimmick outright, but this is a relatively 'unique'
23:35:27 <Discord|> gimmick, and when I sat down to do the math about what percentage of forms would be appealing to a non-UC character, the odds are something close to 50/50 of it just never doing anything.) And even if it rolls something you'd like, in many cases you still cannot afford to pick up the 13 skill levels it is asking for until quite a while later, making it some of the slowest racial passives to 'come online'.
23:35:27 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1850-g8a85f5c4e6 (34)
23:35:35 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> 3) The extra incentives (via AC/Int) to shapechange are neat and I did feel their benefit in a few cases, but they do also have the awkwardness that it might often be a long time before a character can get any benefit out of it. One character managed to get some extra benefit from early flux baubles, but several others found no possibly-relevant talisman until S-branches. (It made the "You feel ready to transform." message all the
23:35:36 <Discord|> sillier, since I was very much not ready to transform! ^^;   4) Alas, I feel like no matter their thematic overlap, "Wanting to get lots of mutations" and "Wanting to shapechange" are oddly at-odds due to how many forms suppress many mutations. (I used a couple !mut to try and get a bit more protean grace and only got mutations suppressed by the form I was in. T.T)   5) The normal mutation pool also has a lot more 'misses' for what you can get on XL 4
23:35:36 <Discord|> compared to demonspawn. Which is fine in the abstract, but when combined with the innate form often also doing nothing and the natural shifter doing nothing, a couple times I basically had 2EV/slay as my racial passives for most of the game and that was it. (And the one time I got something exciting at XL 4, the very first !mut just replaced it with junk instead T.T)
23:35:42 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The more I thought about it, the more I felt like 'interacts with random mutations differently' and 'interacts with shapeshifting differently' might actually want to not be on the same species at all.   The original 'djinn-of-shapeshifting' concept (ie: you get a progression of random forms over the course of the game and some additional bonus/incentive to using them - whether apt-based or otherwise) does have some advantages in
23:35:42 <Discord|> offering obvious 'in-roads' and guaranteeing the option for the player to start interacting with the system from an earlier level. (But I do think there's probably still not enough forms in the game for this yet and it really wants to wait until more are added, and hopefully that form variants system I've spoken of before).  I did toss around some other simpler ideas like "You get a single Oka-style acquirement of always-randart talismans at XL ~14" or
23:35:43 <Discord|> "All talismans you find are randarts and you get some tier-based bonus to being in any form (like they have now)" but not really sure what I think of those overall.
23:35:50 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> On the mutation end, as I said, there isn't really a means for players to accumulate a 'large' number of mutations for protean grace outside of gods, and I ended up pondering about a species that received a small set of mutations (some good and also sometimes bad!) that were re-randomized at fixed points every couple XL. ie: you have a set of 'simple, common mutations' at any given time, but which those are fluctuate (but slowly
23:35:51 <Discord|> enough that the player can internalize what they all are, unlike with, say, Jiyva). Possibly combined with an ability you can use a couple times per game to 'lock in' a specific mutation permanently. I think there could maybe be some interesting tension between locking in relevant bonuses immediately versus waiting to reroll these for better long-term bonuses later on. (Though I know Index feels our current positive mutation pool is a little thin for
23:35:51 <Discord|> this...)  Darby pondered a species gimmick combining:  -'Has a difficult time cleansing mutations in the usual way - good or bad - so tends to climb upward in count over time via potions'  -'Bad mutations can be worked off over time with XL'  Essentially encouraging people to drink !mut and accumulate more of a 'genetic mess' and then slowly clean up the worse parts of it over time.  (I am not sure what I think of this either, but thought I'd mention
23:35:52 <Discord|> these among all the other stuff.)
23:36:23 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> @hellmonk For your perusal ^^;
23:38:16 <Discord|> <02D​arby> I admit even I'm not sure what I think of that idea of mine, it was fairly "throwing things at the wall"
23:38:20 <Discord|> <09h​ellmonk> Seems like some good angles to approach for 0.35
23:39:17 <Discord|> <09h​ellmonk> I'll give it some thought, I definitely didn't feel solid about the concept after working on it so this is some good stuff to try out
23:43:32 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (Though I know Index feels our current positive mutation pool is a little thin for this...) (In being the person who's made the most good mutations recently, I'm pretty conscientious about how much of what has survived overlaps with randart properties or the most long-established and plain equipment properties we have, and how a decent slice of other mutations are quite weak and ignorable in e.g. level 1 aux slots. Draco mostly
23:43:33 <Discord|> wants to concentrate further good mutations she has for the previously-mentioned "split monstrous demonspawn into Nightmares that gain an equipment slot as well as lose them with e.g. weird extra heads and legs", also.)
23:43:47 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> You might be somewhat amused by the one time I did get actual solid use out of my innate form, it was Hive on someone worshipping Qazlal >.>
23:44:03 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The bees were, uh... less useful than they might otherwise have been
23:44:12 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> Regeneration for dealing with monsters coming in due to the noise!
23:44:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (But still useful enough for it to be worth it at the time)
23:44:38 <Discord|> <09h​ellmonk> Well, I'm fine with shelving this until a later date and trying out some other stuff at that time
23:44:45 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, it was actually helpful on that character (even if I graduated to a granite talisman a handful of floors later)
23:58:07 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1851-g97f4fcf8e3