00:08:33 Stable (0.33) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33.1-11-g13c08b6794 00:13:13 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1551-ge87b8e010b (34) 00:55:17 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1551-ge87b8e010b 00:58:41 <11Odds> Noob question perhaps, but why we don't use floats to represent probabilities for random events? 01:19:58 Stable (0.33) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33.1-11-g13c08b6794 01:51:12 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1552-g59074f5755: Add the Wu Jian Council to religious graffiti. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59074f575596 02:16:51 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1553-g24b1bdac57: Add Qazlal to religious graffiti. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24b1bdac5747 02:33:58 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1554-g78b70c2b0f: Split off non-religious/religious graffiti. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 43+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/78b70c2b0f06 02:37:12 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1555-g2924441ca5: Expand non-religious graffiti a bit more. 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2924441ca539 02:54:18 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1556-g966f0d23eb: Add Elyvilon & equivalent to graffiti. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/966f0d23eb15 04:00:33 New branch created: pull/4931 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4931 04:00:34 03CrawlOdds02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4931 * 0.34-a0-1552-g431a725d6e: Refactor piety gain 10(75 minutes ago, 2 files, 52+ 112-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/431a725d6e45 05:11:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1556-g966f0d2 (34) 06:01:29 <06mumra> I think historically because due to how things are derived from D&D mechanics, using dice rolls and "x chance in y" just represents that better (and also, you can't accurately represent e.g. a 1/3 chance with a float, even if the float representation is really so close the inaccuracy is functionally meaningless...) 06:02:47 <06mumra> Possibly may also have been a performance consideration at one time to use int rather than float 06:22:52 <06pleasingfungus> ints are also more reproducible 06:23:03 <06pleasingfungus> esp historically, float math had different results on different processors 06:23:14 <06pleasingfungus> which could lead to very strange bugs 06:25:41 <06pleasingfungus> https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@TomF/115589875974658415 (thread) was one discussion of this that i saw recently 06:26:15 <06pleasingfungus> (https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@TomF/115589908392471545 begins the discussion of floats) 06:27:52 <11Odds> Thanks! 10:01:13 <09gammafunk> a TLDR is that it is vastly less bug-prone to compare two integers than it is to compare two floating point values. So we use various ad-hoc "fixed point" schemes with integers (use of integers under the hood, just with an appropriate scaling factor that allows for fine-grained comparisons). Advil even made a nice fixed point header library that we use in some places, but many ad-hoc schemes for comparing integers remain throughout 10:01:13 the codebase 10:01:58 <09gammafunk> the prevalence of those hand-rolled scaling factors is probably a con of using integers over floating point, but it doesn't tend to cause many issues in practice (at least, for crawlcode, that I know of) 10:09:55 <09gammafunk> @mumra not sure if you saw, but I did merge your hyper layout bugfix branch, with a couple more fixes on top. The last fix in that branch 11ccc3a seems like the most correct thing to do, but I didn't look very deeply. There's commented out code above that fix trying to index the same (non-existent) variable, but I didn't touch that 11:11:15 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1557-g3c0683f5ac: Fix some religious graffiti wording. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c0683f5ac5d 11:25:19 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1558-g054b47e093: Add Ashenzari to religious graffiti. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/054b47e09333 11:31:45 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1559-ge3ec70bb1c: Expand a non-religious graffiti line. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3ec70bb1c37 11:31:45 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1560-g8fb3c7abe2: Add another Beogh religious graffiti line. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8fb3c7abe26d 11:48:53 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1561-g480873f066: Fix typos. 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/480873f06644 11:52:01 <08nicolae> hunh! 11:53:10 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1562-g2cd2c98c4f: Add Ru & equivalent to graffiti. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2cd2c98c4f06 12:37:03 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1563-g66b6d70f0a: Expand Zin messages and tweak a Beogh message. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66b6d70f0a25 12:37:03 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1564-gfb347f68f2: Tweak a Wu Jian Council graffiti message. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb347f68f28a 12:37:04 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1565-g5ed36cee4f: Add the Shining One & equivalent to graffiti. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ed36cee4f4e 13:13:26 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1566-g9242a29595: Add Lugonu & equivalent to graffiti. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9242a2959573 13:19:59 <06dolorous_84348> And with that, all the gods with multiple worshippers (along with secular equivalents where applicable) have graffiti options. 13:26:44 <06dolorous_84348> @gammafunk Quick notice: It appears that crawl.dcss.io hasn't updated the 0.33 branch to 0.33.1-11 when other servers have. 14:36:00 <09gammafunk> ok, I'll check that out, thanks 14:36:23 <09gammafunk> I seem to recall it not pulling the last stable update, despite being scheduled, and then it worked fine when I did it manually 14:36:33 <09gammafunk> btw cdi does have a rebuild url 14:36:37 <09gammafunk> ??rebuild[2 14:36:40 <09gammafunk> oh 14:36:42 <09gammafunk> well that's not helpful 14:37:33 <09gammafunk> interesting, and now the rebuild url doesn't work 14:38:15 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1567-g4b1999af99: Expand Dith & equivalent graffiti a bit. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4b1999af9980 14:45:36 <06dolorous_84348> Good to know about the rebuild URL (and also good luck fixing it). 14:46:02 <09gammafunk> @dolorous_84348 ok, url is fixed, it's here: https://crawl.dcss.io/rebuild If you don't have an account on CDI, please register one and let me know what it is, so I can make you a dgl admin 14:46:29 <06dolorous_84348> Thank you. 14:47:09 <09gammafunk> (hellmonk's dcst broke the rebuild script!!! (because I added it to the rebuild without adapting the necessary code so experimentals can rebuild!!! (so it's all hellmonk's fault!!!!))) 15:00:20 <11Odds> Just putting down where I am on piety: - Removing piety decay is currently quite hard to do and be confident in balancing without making piety even more complicated, because of how complicated piety is (in particular, slowing down piety gain by a fixed amount is rather hard) - I think something broadly like https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4931 should probably be done first, simplifying piety quite a bit without changing anything 15:00:20 fundamental - That is also hard to balance, and we should do that by logging a bunch of stuff like how much piety is gained and the levels of the monsters that cause that - I haven't started looking at that logging but have a good example from gammafunk to look at 15:03:14 <09hellmonk> your welcome 15:25:48 <06dolorous_84348> I have an account there now. Username: Vorloth 16:40:26 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.34-a0-1567-g4b1999af99 (34) 16:41:07 <09gammafunk> Vorloth is now a dgl admin. You should be able to authenticate at that url with your account credentials. Feel free to select 0.33 from the drop down and try a rebuild 16:55:11 <06dolorous_84348> Done. 17:18:41 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1568-g2a305e635e: Simplify some graffiti messages. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2a305e635e45 18:00:24 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1569-g35a784107e: Fix errant newline in lindwurm quote. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/35a784107e99 20:13:04 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1570-g28c287d660: Adjust titles for people/professors in graffiti. 10(46 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28c287d66056 20:13:04 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1571-gb05235fbd5: Let necromancers be professors in graffiti. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b05235fbd530 20:41:57 03dolorous02 07* 0.34-a0-1572-g77ab2cbb74: Add a few more bland names. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77ab2cbb74c2 22:39:01 <09hellmonk> how do we feel about pr #4732 22:39:09 <09hellmonk> this seems like an easy merge to me 22:42:18 <04dracoomega> I... didn't even realize that worked. Genuinely surprised. (However, it's worth noting that multiple different menus use ! to navigate between tabs and in those, tab does not work - I just checked.) 22:42:49 <04dracoomega> I am not sure if there's any good reason tab couldn't also work for those; it seems like it would be good for them all to work the same way, if possible 22:43:19 <04dracoomega> (But like, xv and ^ screens, for instance, only seem to tab using !. There may be others.) 22:44:28 <09hellmonk> can leave it for a more holistic change if you prefer 22:46:33 <04dracoomega> I literally hadn't looked at it before this moment, nor was I aware that keyboard shortcut worked. If there's no technical obstacle, I do agree it would make more sense for them all to use it. 22:47:03 <04dracoomega> (It's very possible there isn't, and it's just no one ever added it to the other ones) 22:49:28 <09hellmonk> I also noticed while testing this that ! switches tab in the spellcast menu but there's no tooltip for it 22:50:08 <09hellmonk> unsure if that was lost at some point or we just never displayed press ! to see the other spell info 22:51:01 <04dracoomega> Huh, so there isn't. Yet I use ! there all the time, which does make me wonder if it said it at some point and stopped? 22:51:43 <04dracoomega> It wouldn't have even ocurred to me it wasn't listed 22:51:45 <09hellmonk> I think it must have 22:52:14 <09hellmonk> surely we haven't had this menu with no help text for 18 years or whatever 22:52:37 <04dracoomega> Double-checking, it was actually there in 0.33 22:52:46 <04dracoomega> So something happened relatively recently 22:53:21 <04dracoomega> Oh, pressing ? to examine the currently selected spell didn't work back then, so somebody must have added that and in so doing removed the old help? 22:54:21 <04dracoomega> %git b9c99e8 22:54:22 <04Cerebot> Jared Miller {GitHub} * 0.34-a0-322-gb9c99e84c2: Handle ?-key spell description from cast menu (#4586) (5 months ago, 1 file, 21+ 3-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9c99e84c20c 22:54:27 <04dracoomega> Probably this 22:55:07 <04dracoomega> Oh, you merged that yourself ^^; 22:55:32 <09hellmonk> lmao 23:01:02 New branch created: chaosunlace (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/chaosunlace 23:01:02 03hellmonk02 07[chaosunlace] * 0.34-a0-1573-g4ce8bbe34a: Don't chaos lace or fire champion derived undead. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4ce8bbe34afe 23:01:03 New branch created: pull/4935 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4935 23:01:03 Branch pull/4935 updated to be equal with chaosunlace: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4935 23:02:08 <09hellmonk> gotta admit I don't really understand why this change wrecked the menu description 23:03:51 <09hellmonk> but I will look into it 23:07:35 <09hellmonk> nm figured it out already 23:09:09 <06regret-⸸nde※> For the record, there was a rough plan to have Chaos Lace refactored to be a bonus brand instead of replacing the given monster's base attack brand so Xom demonspawn in Hell-Pan Roulette could use Mass Chaos Lace (alongside some current loose concepts of a new Slime that makes all slimes get vampiric brand attacks). 23:09:58 <06regret-⸸nde※> (This probably doesn't override fixing that current problem, though.) 23:10:41 <09hellmonk> if you'd prefer to make the statuses work with derived undead, that's fine (but probably more complicated) 23:12:19 <09hellmonk> I assume it's happening because derived undead lose/change attack flavors at some very late point in the codepath 23:15:56 <06dolorous_84348> Making certain brands in general work as bonus brands instead of overrides does allow for a lot more interesting possibilities. I'm curious, though: what's the reasoning behind vampiric slimes? 23:17:30 <04dracoomega> Yeah, honestly how this works in general has some awkwardness like how simulacra can't apply cold damage on attacks that trample and such. I wasn't planning to tackle that, but given that the other stuff is a temporary status anyway, I think it can just fire a second flavor without trying to change their base attack properties. (Chaotic unrands already more or less do this.) 23:18:04 <04dracoomega> So rather than chaoslace trying to 'replace' an attack, it's just 'also do chaos effects on hit' 23:21:58 <09hellmonk> alright, hopefully this fix is acceptable for spell menu text 23:22:27 03hellmonk02 07* 0.34-a0-1573-gd5195eb00b: fix a spell menu description 10(68 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d5195eb00b33 23:24:18 <06regret-⸸nde※> Tyrant leeches show that vampirism isn't literally always inherently evil necromancy, and after making a very long list of different forms of slime motifs and mechanics, one thing that was honed in on was the "ever-consuming hunger" notion being pretty absent by default without actively worshipping Jiyva, post-jelly-item-eating removal. 23:24:20 <09hellmonk> opinions on #4821 ? this seems like another straightforward merge or reject with reason 23:25:02 <06dolorous_84348> Ah. That makes sense. 23:25:47 <09hellmonk> make a slime that 'eats' spells out of your memory until you kill it and get the spells back 23:25:53 <09hellmonk> imo 23:27:42 <06dolorous_84348> The idea of #4821 sounds good to me. 23:35:25 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1573-gd5195eb00b (34) 23:37:18 <04dracoomega> I do actually like some of the implications of this, but it might feel a little metaphoric of a thing for a slime to be eating? (There's also questions about like... how does the player keep track of what is lost and where, does it become possible to learn 'decoy' spells to fill up empty spell slots to create junk for stuff to steal, and so forth.) 23:37:32 <04dracoomega> I am fairly neutral on #4821 23:37:58 <09hellmonk> you'd have to make it a roll per spell like old itemdest (and yes, the ui is probably too annoying to bother with it) 23:42:59 <04dracoomega> 'Steal an entire school, weighted by your spellcasting skills so it's less cheesable' (Though of course this potentially makes it more lethal) Judicators in Purgatory were supposed to have some 'announce conduct and punish the player for violating it' which could maybe involve something like this? (Though of course it's stepping further away from 'eating spells' all the while :P) 23:43:54 <09hellmonk> so many new forms of silence-lite 23:43:57 <09hellmonk> how wonderful 23:44:36 <04dracoomega> Heh 23:50:28 <09hellmonk> steal an entire school, when it sees you, and gain corresponding melee or ranged damage flavor 23:50:39 <09hellmonk> oh yeah, it's all coming together 23:54:39 <04dracoomega> Gain access to something in a given magic school when you cast that magic with it in view? 23:57:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-1573-gd5195eb00b