00:59:04 -!- indigaz25 is now known as indigaz2 03:34:21 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 12:20:07 -!- [ is now known as |LC 12:24:00 -!- |LC is now known as [ 19:43:50 <04Cgettys> nahhhh, inner flame 😛 19:44:23 <04Cgettys> So it'd be *Noise? 20:53:36 <04dracoomega> @hellmonk Here's the objstat for D/V/U on parchment branch that you asked for. (I hadn't actually taken a significant look at it myself yet) 20:53:37 <04dracoomega> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1385467599931969536/objstat_parchment_branch.zip?ex=68562cc0&is=6854db40&hm=157ada2f104e41b17a56e939de53c3b5319bd3144bcb5b24989313ba443b35e2& 20:57:30 <04dracoomega> Though taking a bit of look at it myself, at first brush here, it looks like a fairly meaningful decrease in the number of copies of most spells 20:58:11 <04dracoomega> By as much as 50% in a bunch of cases 21:02:06 <09hellmonk> sounds like we should revise up a bit then. I started with a pretty naive treatment of floor loot and a modest increase in shops bc otherwise the shop list gets really long 21:02:19 <09hellmonk> can easily increase both of those things 21:02:26 <04dracoomega> Yeah, this is the sort of thing that does feel hard to intuit without actually looking at objstat output 21:03:34 <04dracoomega> It looks like you reduced spellbook generation by... about 90%? I'm not sure it needs to be quite that low? But that's very much a "I haven't played with it" gut feeling here. 21:04:34 <04dracoomega> I might be inclined to double it from what you have here? (Though parchment count also would need to go up somewhat as well; I doubt that's enough to fill the gap) 21:04:36 <09hellmonk> I removed all spellbooks from actual floor loot and non-predefined shops, so that remainder is entirely vault placement 21:04:43 <04dracoomega> Oh, huh 21:05:07 <04dracoomega> I think they should still exist a bit as floor loot. I guess I sort of saw them as the artefacts of parchment generation, more or less ^^; 21:05:08 <09hellmonk> easy to change that as well if we want some 'rare' random book gen 21:05:35 <04dracoomega> Because getting a coherant book of things together can actually an exciting reward, I think 21:05:49 <04dracoomega> (Eventually will probably shuffle book contents around a bit with this in mind, but that doesn't have to be done immediately) 21:05:58 <09hellmonk> ya, unsure what the ultimate state of predefined books was going to look like 21:06:57 <04dracoomega> Yeah, my picture of it's still a little fuzzy, but it feels like if the 'normal' drops are all completly 'random', rare books can afford to be a little more of 'These spells work well together' sometimes, as a reward that feels above the curve. 21:07:32 <04dracoomega> (The logic of changing spellbooks to be less of that, compared to old times, I think, was to incourage the kind of 'flexible' gameplay adaption that parchments naturally do) 21:07:39 <04dracoomega> Not that they should all be that 21:08:01 <09hellmonk> keep in mind that books of that type are prone to needing revisions as spells change, though 21:09:16 <09hellmonk> in any case I can do whatever you think is best for adjusting spell numbers. Just increasing parchment weight and shop count some more is probably easiest, but none of the solutions should be very hard 21:11:37 <04dracoomega> (How much did you increase the number of spell shops compared to when they were selling books, out of curiosity?) 21:13:07 <04dracoomega> (I don't even know where the code for doing this is located, off-hand ^^; ) 21:14:53 <09hellmonk> I increased the number of items in book shops in _shop_num_items in dungeon.cc, but only by 3. We could go up a lot more here to compensate directly, but it might get a bit unwieldy 21:15:53 <09hellmonk> also I did set up a big dumb array to filter most duplicates, like we did for books 21:16:10 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I've interacted with shop code very little 21:16:28 <04dracoomega> (Working my way through some of it now) 21:17:08 <04dracoomega> (I wonder if there's any reason to even sometimes allow duplicate parchments in one shop?) 21:17:23 <04dracoomega> Feels like it just makes the UI a tiny bit worse and not much else? 21:17:25 <09hellmonk> also worth noting that I basically bullshitted together the actual weighting function for spells in _choose_parchment_spell, so if the problem is confined to higher level spells we can adjust that 21:17:49 <09hellmonk> unclear, we allowed it for books for uh, historical/flavor reasons I guess? 21:17:52 <04dracoomega> No, it was pretty much all spells. (There may be some level-based effects also, but I didn't get to the point of analyzing that since nearly everything seemed significantly reduced) 21:18:22 <09hellmonk> and in general it's not really more useless to have a second parchment than a second +0 longsword or whatever 21:18:26 <04dracoomega> I wonder if books in shops ever used to be unidentified. Probably yes? 21:18:36 <09hellmonk> so idk how much filtration is necessary 21:19:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, it isn't more useless than that, I guess. (But if we are having these shops contain more items than normal shops, that's more stuff taken up with possible junk, screen-wise.) Maybe it just feels different to me that a second long sword can technically do something that the first one can't (you could brand them differently, or be a coglin, or whatever), but a parchment never can 21:20:06 <04dracoomega> Like, realistically it's usually redundant, but not strictly-and-always redundant 21:20:30 <09hellmonk> pretend I said ring of flight then 21:20:58 <04dracoomega> Ha 21:21:48 <09hellmonk> I don't think it's wrong to robustly filter duplicate parchments in a shop to be clear, but I'm not sure that we have to 21:21:52 <04dracoomega> I mean, I realize this is similar, but I guess I mind it more here in particular since we're thinking of UI space involved in them having larger inventories. I won't push, and maybe it's fine and I wouldn't have even noticed otherwise. 23:46:23 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.34-a0-159-g22e6b53a17