00:09:26 New branch created: pull/4401 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4401 00:09:26 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4401 * 0.33-a0-1120-ge972e02526: feat: Let tornado and the browser handle compression for us 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 13+ 2241-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e972e0252662 00:15:48 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4401 * 0.33-a0-1120-g774125dd57: feat: Let tornado and the browser handle compression for us 10(17 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 2265-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/774125dd57e8 00:21:07 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-g0cbfaabffb: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(6 days ago, 7 files, 320+ 123-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0cbfaabffbd7 00:24:46 <04Cgettys> also @mumra - I think the server_no_context_takeover and client_no_context_takeover parts of https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7692#page-12 (not currently supported in tornado, but we could upstrem + vendor in in the meantime? might allow keeping compression while also sending the same message to multiple clients, while compressing only once? but not sure 00:26:02 <04Cgettys> That's it for me for the day, still not sure where the lag spikes come from :/ 00:55:34 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1126-g9300408954 01:20:32 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4392 * 0.33-a0-1087-gf42042baac: Fix swapping between Release and Debug builds in MSVC 10(3 days ago, 27 files, 291+ 353-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f42042baacae 02:49:22 <06mumra> Those parameters sound like they're to do with the memory usage on the client, I don't see how they help here 02:50:02 <06mumra> (Decompression in the browser is taking a trivial amount of time already anyway. It's definitely not part of the issue here.) 02:51:04 <06mumra> (But as your PR points out, being able to inspect messages in the browser is certainly better) 04:34:13 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:22:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1126-g9300408 (34) 08:33:25 Floating this question here (I can make an issue too, I just don't know if chat is preferred for this kinda question) https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/1jiq4eg/comment/mjhe6mh/ 09:35:13 slifty: I fear that's a bit of a hardy perennial suggestion; I'd try tavern.dcss.io if anything 11:40:41 <05icoson> I think in the past the answer has been that things are more interesting if you have to choose (or at least have the potential to need to choose), and decide whether/how to rush. Portal placement isn't zero sum and if you hit the very rare possibility of generating 3 (or even 2), on average any over the first is a bonus 11:49:33 Totally makes sense (and makes sense it's already been thought through before!) 13:35:35 New branch created: pull/4402 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4402 13:35:35 03radio-gra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4402 * 0.33-a0-1127-ge37d7090c1: Mark maxed out misc evokers as useless if not in player's inventory 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e37d7090c173 13:54:02 <04dracoomega> @hellmonk Been doing some testing on Detonation Catalyst and I've found a handful of bugs/issues: -The explosions don't actually make noise (even though they were clearly intended to), since no tile is ever considered their 'center' (ie: the only one that generates noise) -The duration is extended from normal melee attacks using you.time_taken before attack delay is rolled, so it will always be base action speed (ie: it goes up by 13:54:03 10 aut per attack round). This means that if your attacks are slow, it will wear off in a few attacks regardless, and if your attacks are fast, it will continue to stack duration upwards. If you notice, the similar property I used for executioner state is in fight_melee, after attack delay is rolled. (The one for manifold assault works properly, though.) -Contrary to how I thought it worked, unarmed_base_damage doesn't include the effect of UC skill, so 13:54:03 while untransformed, catalyst will always think your unarmed damage is 3 (it even ignores claws, though not transformations.). This feels wrong (and certainly makes it a lot worse without a weapon.) -Damage on the spell screen is still randomly rounded each time you look at it, since calc_dice itself does random rounding. I can fix a bunch of the actual bugs, if you'd like. Design-wise, I'm still not 100% sure what I think of its current balance 13:54:04 point (and what aspects of the weapon matter or not, like heavy being strict-downside, despite the idea that it cares about weapon damage). I'm not sure the damage bonus for higher base damage weapons actually outcompetes the greater number of triggers for faster ones. Did you decide against the 1 MP per attack thing when you reduced its damage or just not get to trying it? (Anecdotally, manifold assault on a coglin with this was so strong that it 13:54:04 caught me off-guard by killing my 'impractically many HP' testing rats. Turns out that hitting the same thing with 14+ explosions in one action is pretty good >.>) 13:55:05 <09hellmonk> Feel free to bug fix as desired, otherwise I will work on it tonight 13:55:48 <09hellmonk> I might try a damage rating based formula instead of base damage then, unsure if that will work better 13:56:24 <09hellmonk> 1 mp per attack seems fine, just didn't test it 13:57:01 <04dracoomega> Yeah, the issue with damage rating based to some degree is that the range of numbers it can get is a lot wider, which might also make it harder to balance 13:57:31 <04dracoomega> Even if the current state has some 'unexpected' properties not mattering 13:58:03 <04dracoomega> (Also: it seems very possible to me to have it use the weapon a coglin actually hit with, instead of randomly picking one after the fact) 13:58:22 <04dracoomega> Just have the fineff pass along a pointer to the weapon used 13:59:32 <04dracoomega> (The spell damage screen could even average them, instead of only looking at the first one) 14:04:05 <04dracoomega> (I can also do that while I'm at it, if this makes sense to you) 14:16:45 <09hellmonk> Seems good 14:38:16 03DracoOmega02 07[theyrebombs] * 0.33-a0-1093-gef176482a4: Fix normal melee attacks always extending Catalyst by 1.0 turns 10(35 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef176482a4e6 14:38:16 03DracoOmega02 07[theyrebombs] * 0.33-a0-1094-g06fce89e22: Make Detonation Catalyst explosions actually make noise 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/06fce89e226f 14:38:16 03DracoOmega02 07[theyrebombs] * 0.33-a0-1095-g2920ae7f87: Make Detonation Catalyst actually care about which coglin weapon hit 10(86 seconds ago, 5 files, 38+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2920ae7f8785 14:38:16 Branch pull/4388 updated to be equal with theyrebombs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4388 15:53:24 <04dracoomega> Some earlier today was having a cryptic crash-on-startup that I didn't know what to do with, and making save backups didn't seem to be working on CXC. Like, the link produced by it was just returning 404. I tried to figure out how to maybe reproduce the crash without it, but made no progress. I'm not sure who the admin is to ping about this. 15:55:55 <12ge0ff> > who the admin is to ping about this that's @melvinkitnick 16:03:11 <04dracoomega> Thanks 16:04:01 <04dracoomega> (Hopefully this is a reasonably solveable problem, since I'm not really sure where to proceed with this without a save file, and the person's game seems effectively stuck) 16:26:37 <09gammafunk> probably want to give the specific url you were trying 16:32:59 New branch created: pull/4403 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4403 16:33:00 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4403 * 0.33-a0-1118-gc2b0e6c593: Revisions to monster wand usage 10(10 months ago, 13 files, 133+ 137-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2b0e6c593a7 16:33:00 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4403 * 0.33-a0-1119-g304d0a90a3: Player Charm: new effect for existing wand 10(6 months ago, 32 files, 193+ 84-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/304d0a90a3c4 16:33:00 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4403 * 0.33-a0-1120-gbef6621154: Add a separate band type for Yaktaur Captains 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bef662115471 16:33:00 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4403 * 0.33-a0-1121-gf8daf742d8: Yaktaur Fusilier: new monster 10(4 hours ago, 10 files, 54+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8daf742d860 16:38:32 <06mumra> @dracoomega If you recall we talked about player version of charming some time ago. After some iterations I quite like this effect of losing turns when you damage the enemy ... I feel it may need something a little more as I don't know if it forces you into enough danger, since the danger is triggered by your actions. You suggested having it force you to move towards the enemy so I'm wondering about adding that as well... Also 16:38:32 wondering about having it prevent you taking from stairs (this would also resolve a small mechanical issue with how the statuses are applied) 16:39:26 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-1126-g9300408954 (34) 16:58:00 <06mumra> Just looking again at Ungoldify after quite a while, and still not quite sure what to do with it. Possibly radical changes: - Make it an unrand ranged weapon instead ("Alistair's Shrapnel Cannon") but it seems a shame to take what is the main effect that most people identify alchemy with, and put it on something not in the alchemy school - Raise the gold cost significantly (and the spell level) but have it only use gold, not MP. So 16:58:00 it's uses are limited but it's some big damage you've got available if you need it when MP runs out - Both of the above ... use the 3-beam effect for an unrand, and make a new spell "Gold Fusion" instead that uses a large amount of gold to create a huge bomb that goes off after n turns and attracts monsters towards it during the countdown - ...? something else ?... 17:52:23 <04dracoomega> Previously monsters could use the wand but would never use it on the player That is actually untrue. Currently wands of charming just confuse the player. (Which actually make them somewhat disproportionately dangerous very early, since monsters will use them quite rapidly and you often don't have any way to fix this.) To be honest, after Vex was made (and using Vex as what happens to a player affected by Dominate Undead) I was 17:52:23 planning to just make Charm wands vex the player. Like, maybe you're more fiercely independent than the average monster and are actively fighting against the control or somesuch. It felt a thematic enough fit to me (and avoid some of the issue with current early charm wand spam, since if the monster using it is otherwise fairly harmless, you'll probably still kill them this way.) The 'Guilt' effect you propose here, I feel, may risk being a 'just go 17:52:24 reset the encounter' thing if it works on you against something dangerous (and fairly ignorable otherwise). But it's also coincidentally quite similar to something for an already partially-coded Pan enemy Index was working on - grigori - that cause direct damage and mini-para whenever you harm something else while they're in LoS. 17:57:09 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Grigori 1: get to spawn in a branch with ambient monster spawning, so resetting fights for a better sighting arrangement has a cost, and 2: did zero will checking because we can just irresistably apply significant debuffs by the time of extended. I never fully finished them before deciding to work on other projects, though a sizeable part of that was simply that they're meant to be on the same tier as nekomata, and after 17:57:10 people complained that a new extended monster not called a shrike could compare to tier-1 demons, I decided most of the future Pan monsters were going to wait for Hell-Pan roulette.) 19:29:34 <09hellmonk> what's our opinion on 3568 19:30:13 <09hellmonk> seems like a big change to how the monster works (and I'm not entirely sure it will succeed) but current krakens kind of suck ass as a monster so I'd be willing to try it 19:43:09 <04Cgettys> I think it also implies tthe "history" that is otherwise kept between messages is reset to zero (therefore not requiring memory to remember said history), which would make it reusable. But maybe I'm missing something. 19:45:25 <04dracoomega> I actually tried working on that PR back in fairly early 0.32, but there were... technical issues both with some of its code and pre-existing problems that the new behavior made more obvious. (I actually spent a few days working really hard on fixing some of these and eventually leaned towards trying something completely different instead.) 19:45:37 <09hellmonk> should I close then? 19:46:08 <04dracoomega> I... suppose you could? I did actually fix a couple bugs on my own local copy of the branch (which may or may not be mergeable - not sure what state they're in) 19:46:20 <09hellmonk> can hold off if you've got stuff for it 19:46:28 <02Monkooky> krakens are terrible :< 19:46:34 <09hellmonk> no need to prematurely shut things that are being worked on 19:47:14 <04Cgettys> @gammafunk - believe you said you wanted to do a deeper refactor on https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4399? Should I close this PR and wait for that, or should we get this in and leave the bigger refactor to a follow-up commit? 19:47:41 <09hellmonk> I am working on a new formula for bomb spell btw. My idea now is mult on base damage and then subtract a flat penalty that is reduced by power. 19:48:01 <04dracoomega> But the idea I was gravitating towards after working on that for a while was to make krakens just summon a bunch of solo tentacles in the water near them. We already have a tile of 'tentacle emerges from the water' used back when submerging was a thing. And have these tentacles clean themselves up if the kraken got too far away from them. Basically have the flavor being that its spread out really wide under the water where you 19:48:02 can't see it (without any of the issues submerging itself had.) The thing is that solo tentacles - even if the code is kind of a hard to read mess - are actually much less buggy than ones attached to a mobile hea. 19:49:13 <04dracoomega> When one was actually encouraged to engage a current-style kraken more closely, it became fairly obvious that tentacles would randomly keep disappearing (due to a variety of issues causing disconnects that one doesn't usually see as much when you're just dancing at the edge of their range and the head isn't moving a lot) 19:49:26 <09gammafunk> Leave it open for now, I can get to that one tomorrow, since it's small, thanks 19:49:31 <04Cgettys> Great, makes me feel less guilty for not having gotten around to playtesting the first version yet 😄 19:50:18 <02Monkooky> I also think this is a better approach than my PR, though I'd still push for some of the numerical/functional changes because kraken tentacles attached to the head are indeed a buggy mess 19:50:30 <04dracoomega> (I still think this idea is worth trying, and I had planned to do it along with a couple other Shoals monsters I've mentioned in past, but other things kept ending up higher on the to-do list) 19:50:36 <09gammafunk> there's nothing wrong with a nice :gammafKraken: 19:50:59 <09hellmonk> I had a dangerous kraken encounter once (teleported adjacent to one as octopode 19:51:03 <04dracoomega> But trying it in 0.34 seems reasonably likely 19:51:07 <09hellmonk> the flight drawback 19:51:12 <09gammafunk> !lg qw cikiller=kraken 19:51:15 <04Cerebot> 14. qw the Bludgeoner (L16 OnGl of Okawaru), slain by a tentacle (attached to a kraken) on Shoals:2 (nicolae_shoals_lighthouse) on 2024-08-25 03:32:32, with 123823 points after 33693 turns and 0:37:23. 19:51:21 <09gammafunk> big rip 19:51:55 <04dracoomega> Krakens are great flavor and... much less scary in almost all situations than it feels like they ought to be. I do remember in very old versions they actually seemed dangerous, though I'm not sure if anything changes beside their context 19:52:10 <09hellmonk> I think they've been powercrept to an extent 19:52:17 <09hellmonk> but they were always very cheeseable 19:52:29 <09hellmonk> even w/ old shoals tides 19:52:43 <04dracoomega> I guess old Shoals tides did sometimes 'trap' you with them for a bit 19:52:46 <02Monkooky> Yeah I'm never sure if my memories of krakens being this 'stay out of the deep water' turbothreat were just.... me being bad 19:52:54 <04dracoomega> At least enough for you to end up in a bad position compared to them 19:53:14 <09hellmonk> I think they could catch you off guard with autoexplore or tele more often before, in ways they can't now 19:53:20 <04dracoomega> (I think there was some brief window in ancient trunk where the tentacles could constrict you ^^; ) 19:53:28 <09hellmonk> due to stuff mentioned in the pr like scroll of poison or "any aoe spell" 19:54:02 <09hellmonk> bc their damage is quite high if you actually have to get hit by them more than once 19:55:02 <04dracoomega> Yes. It's just that 'dance at edge of LoS' is so easy to do, almost all of the time 19:55:30 <04Cgettys> Make them able to reach behind you? 19:55:47 <04Cgettys> Or just constrict, that's plenty terrifying 19:55:50 <09hellmonk> let them leave the water 19:56:16 <09hellmonk> (give the tentacles af_drag but this probably does not work at all with tentacle code) 19:57:03 <02Monkooky> turns out there's just a bunch of tiny feet under the kraken head 19:57:17 <04Cgettys> No, it's just a bunch of tiny tentacles it can walk on 19:57:20 <04Cgettys> duuhhhhhh 19:57:32 <04Cgettys> 😛 19:58:05 <04dracoomega> I mean, both snaplasher vines and starspawn tentacles already more or less do this 19:58:09 <04dracoomega> They just have to constrict first 19:58:17 <04dracoomega> If anything, I'd rather krakens not do the very same thing 19:58:25 <09hellmonk> tbh i forgor about those 19:58:29 <04Cgettys> Give them knockback isntead? 19:58:48 <04dracoomega> (I still would have to test it in practice, but I do think that making tentacles appear from the water in various directions of the player could actually help here) 19:58:50 <04Cgettys> so that they wallop you and then leaving you a square away, to make melee players grumpy 😄 19:58:54 <04dracoomega> And presumably no damage-sharing in this case 19:58:57 <09hellmonk> in a game that isn't crawl I would consider making them more or less totally invincible and then they're just an area denial guy 19:59:07 <09hellmonk> but I don't think it would play well here 19:59:22 <04dracoomega> Too much area, not enough guy 20:00:00 <09hellmonk> like maybe in a tighter game you'd beat on them a bunch and they'd submerge for some turns and then come back, but never die completely 20:00:16 <09hellmonk> can't think of a way that plays good w/ crawl mechanics though 20:00:54 <04dracoomega> The kind of thing that probably wants something like a portal or very small arena-ish levels to exist in 20:01:07 <04dracoomega> Or ongoing respawns 20:02:00 <09hellmonk> if only there was no backtracking and we could bring back ood spawn timer... 20:02:11 <09hellmonk> like tears in rain scoob 20:03:44 <04Cgettys> That's how you make it terrifying? 20:03:52 <04Cgettys> it's a challenge on the way back up from shoals 4 20:03:58 <04Cgettys> tries to keep you from getting out 20:04:12 <04Cgettys> (maybe only if you don't clear shoals 4 right after shoals 3?) 20:04:34 <04Cgettys> Maybe a bad idea, but and Idea 20:04:58 <09hellmonk> you pick up the barnacled rune and feel its power. A distant voice shouts "release the kraken!" 20:05:08 <04dracoomega> New Pan will clearly be a microcosm of Ideal Design, huh? 😛 20:05:24 <09hellmonk> hellpan roulette is very exciting 20:05:34 <09hellmonk> this shit has been being discussed for literally a decade 20:05:35 <04dracoomega> Respawns, no backtracking, etc. 20:05:52 <09hellmonk> no backtracking is so good 20:06:12 <04dracoomega> I mean, I guess Pan never had backtracking, but it did have an indefinite amount of forwardtrackign 20:06:26 <09hellmonk> respawns are merely one solution among many, but I like them (gotta make sure they don't allow for infinite grinding though) 20:07:01 <04Cgettys> Easy, if you spawn too many... "RELEASE THE OTHER KRAKEN" 20:07:05 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Honestly, the Hell effects reworking also making people not leave Hell to work off Drain (or old statdrain) elsewhere will probably also be good even when not rolling Pan.) 20:07:23 <09hellmonk> yeah 20:07:41 <09hellmonk> I think hell rework was good overall but we never got the ideal design for hell effects i think 20:08:06 <04dracoomega> The temp mutations disappear so quickly that I didn't even realize they were a thing until I went into the code to remove stat drain 20:08:30 <04dracoomega> Despite having done 15-rune games multiple times since then 20:08:52 <04dracoomega> (The original timer formula was really not meant for that context at all) 20:08:54 <09hellmonk> old hell could be played in a very divey fast way that was cool, the problem was if you didn't do that it sucked unbelievably bad. new hell kind of removed both of those things but had various problems with drain effects making you want to fullclear and then leave in between 20:09:14 <09hellmonk> I think temp mut timer should be way longer so it can be used in more places 20:09:47 <04dracoomega> I did want to adjust it a bit even for Wretched Stars, but part of the idea of Banes is that we can just give up a specific individual bad pseudo-mutation on a timer of our choice 20:09:47 <09hellmonk> oh, I should make a decision about lengthening evocable timers before t as well 20:10:08 <04dracoomega> Using the same sort of infrastructure 20:10:51 <04dracoomega> (But really, wretched stars right now, I feel give out too many different mutations at once and they all expire too quickly, such that it's very hard to even keep track of what's wrong with you.) 20:11:19 <04dracoomega> I mean, they're still good monsters, but I think it might be better if it were fewer/longer individually, so that it was easier to grok the manner in which you were messed up 20:11:38 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Banes will also be able to have a consistently worse set of end effects instead of rolling everything between "Dex -2" and "Teleportitis".) 20:13:46 <09hellmonk> I always thought it was a bit weird that the temp malmulate monster showed up after the first permanent malmutate monster (random neqoxec summons) 20:14:15 <04dracoomega> (Banes can also give out things too bad to be a normal badmut, since they're specifically designed to be a penalty you work off) 20:14:40 <04dracoomega> As opposed to something you might indefinitely be stuck with 20:17:29 <09hellmonk> the return of slow move 20:20:42 <09hellmonk> alright, see if these numbers feel more reasonable 20:21:02 03hellmonk02 07[theyrebombs] * 0.33-a0-1096-g1376d7c62f: rework damage (again) 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1376d7c62f02 20:21:02 Branch pull/4388 updated to be equal with theyrebombs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4388 20:24:06 <02Monkooky> what does power factor look like here? 20:25:16 03WizardIke02 {GitHub} 07* 0.33-a0-1127-g6208d13a8f: Fix the tile_runrest_rate option (#4385) 10(37 seconds ago, 10 files, 41+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6208d13a8f2a 20:25:38 <02Monkooky> nvm reading 20:28:28 03WizardIke02 {GitHub} 07* 0.33-a0-1128-gecfa6e8a7d: Don't crash when targeting outside map (#4372) 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ecfa6e8a7d97 20:29:57 <09hellmonk> have you done any more work on gastronomic expanse btw 20:30:07 <02Monkooky> Noope 20:30:20 <02Monkooky> that's definitely not happening for .34 I'm afraid 20:31:00 <02Monkooky> I'm not sure when I'm gonna have time for crawlcode tbh 20:32:24 <09hellmonk> going to close 3671 as won't do unless someone has a strong reason in favor of it 20:34:02 <09hellmonk> in general i don't think racial ability fail chance matters very much, but not clear to me it needs to be removed 20:34:13 <09hellmonk> also the pr is old and i don't wanna fix it 20:35:29 <02Monkooky> while I kinda sympathize with '1% failrate on rarely used abilities is mostly just feelsbad' old and don't wanna fix is extremely fair 20:35:56 <09hellmonk> there is something to be said for "it's annoying" i think 20:35:59 <04dracoomega> That's... kind of where I sit, I think? It's a little silly to fail them and it generally only matters earlier, I believe? Though it's worth noting that form-granted abilities generally have no fail chance. (I myself have debated whether or not new stuff I added should have a shapeshifting-based fail chance to 'mirror' racial stuff, but for now opted to do what blinkbolt and such do and just never fail) 20:36:25 <04Cgettys> My opinion doesn't really count, but agree it's kinda feelsbad 20:36:34 <04Cgettys> but maybe helps balance? maybe not? 20:36:49 <04Cgettys> doesn't look like it's hard to fix even if things have been adjusted 20:36:58 <04Cgettys> don't think it removes the infrastructure, just removes the chances 20:36:59 <09hellmonk> oh there's only 1 conflict 20:37:02 <04dracoomega> I feel like... naga poison spit fail chance is actually relevant at early levels 20:37:07 <09hellmonk> actually very easy to merge if we want it 20:37:15 <04dracoomega> (Not saying it's good, but that it is high enough to have an effect) 20:37:27 <09hellmonk> spit poison fail matters a bit I'd imagine 20:37:33 <04dracoomega> (It's been a while since I played a naga) 20:37:40 <02Monkooky> It does, but it's not too significant- the miss chance on spit poison is definitely more of a factor 20:37:49 <09hellmonk> common to use it on a sleeping monster, if you lose a turn then it might wake up and then you have to hit 20:37:58 <02Monkooky> true 20:38:05 <04Cgettys> Could argue all failure cahnces are feelsbad 20:38:09 <04Cgettys> to strawman a bit 20:38:11 <09hellmonk> "reduce spit poison accuracy" suggested in the comments 20:38:20 <09hellmonk> unfortunately, its accuracy is already pure ass 20:38:30 <02Monkooky> tbh I don't think it'll substantially shift naga power 20:38:44 <09hellmonk> it is very close to the lowest to-hit thing a player has access to 20:38:54 <02Monkooky> since it's still an extremely low failrate even early 20:39:20 <09hellmonk> well it can rot some more ig 20:40:24 <02Monkooky> for e.g. spells the fail chances are feelsbad and meaningful since you lose resources, and you're running into the fail chance often enough that you will fail at some point and have to account for it 20:40:31 <04Cgettys> Yeah, fair 20:40:45 <04Cgettys> I was about to say the flip side is, these are kinda emergency abilities, no? 20:40:47 <04Cgettys> at least a lot of them 20:41:18 <04Cgettys> like, "oh crap that monster is strong, let me us my breath ability" 20:41:25 <04Cgettys> .... shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit I'm dead 20:41:26 <09hellmonk> I don't know how to evaluate this minor version support pr from 2020, someone with more experience should look at this though 20:41:41 <09hellmonk> can be merged without conflicts! 20:42:25 <04Cgettys> Not sos ure about thie hurl damnation and word of chaos removals 20:42:31 <04Cgettys> but most of the rest seem reasonable enough to me to remove 20:43:03 <04Cgettys> But I don't feel like I have a good enough sense of balance 😄 20:43:24 03Brian Faires02 {GitHub} 07* 0.33-a0-1129-ge63a381d31: Add lua function item.inscribe(inscription="", append=true) (#2805) 10(14 seconds ago, 1 file, 40+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e63a381d31dd 20:43:25 <09hellmonk> merging ancient lua pr, seems like it should be ok 20:43:49 <09hellmonk> but i'm bad at lua so if something breaks it's everyone else's fault for not looking at it for two years 20:45:07 <04Cgettys> Lua FFI is its own special blend of joy 20:45:13 <02Monkooky> running the numbers on this feels a little weird for low base damage weapons e.g. quickblades have no scaling until 40 power, and linear scaling onwards 20:45:35 <02Monkooky> maybe that doesn't matter b.c. it's always garbo for low base damage weapons anyways? 20:45:37 <04Cgettys> We'll crucify you if it breaks! off with your head! Jk it looks fine to me 20:47:25 <02Monkooky> the other side of that equation needs, like, dark maul or gsc before the power scaling stops mattering 21:06:35 <04Cgettys> I'ma ssuming that means it'll feel wimpy with an evocable staff? 21:07:00 <04Cgettys> cause that would feel super super cool, if this spell helped made enhancer staff melee make sense 😄 21:18:03 <04Cgettys> Feels weak with a enhancer staff? but idk, my opinion is questionable 21:18:30 <04Cgettys> Feels like it'd be nice if there was a synergy with that 😄 21:27:59 03hellmonk02 07* 0.33-a0-1130-g46e4344c46: Allow spellvamp with vampiric draining. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46e4344c466c 21:31:21 <09hellmonk> opinions on #3886? 21:31:35 <09hellmonk> very simple ui change, should merge or close 21:32:24 <04Cgettys> It's not quite right 21:32:29 <04Cgettys> one sec 21:34:24 <04Cgettys> left a comment, in favor overall though it's a bit redundant since the values are already displayed 21:34:31 <04Cgettys> e.g. bar is quieter 21:40:57 <04Cgettys> Beyond that, RE: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3886, I feel like if we don't merge it, we should make it a visible status like some of the others 21:41:08 <04Cgettys> but that PR definitely is economical with real estate 21:41:18 <04Cgettys> screen realestate I mean 23:25:11 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1130-g46e4344c46 (34) 23:35:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1130-g46e4344c46 (34) 23:58:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1130-g46e4344c46