00:55:34 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1107-g3039f5625e 02:30:20 <12ge0ff> the skull is useful even without reaping, so there's no need to block Oka from 🎁ing it 02:33:11 New branch created: pull/4385 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4385 02:33:12 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4385 * 0.33-a0-1088-g5c4f8e8035: Fix the tile_runrest_rate option 10(22 minutes ago, 10 files, 42+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5c4f8e8035ca 02:36:29 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4385 * 0.33-a0-1088-g4688942a94: Fix the tile_runrest_rate option 10(25 minutes ago, 10 files, 41+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4688942a9474 02:38:41 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4385 * 0.33-a0-1088-g51a690dcf9: Fix the tile_runrest_rate option 10(27 minutes ago, 10 files, 41+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/51a690dcf948 03:43:53 <04dracoomega> So... I've been giving some serious thought the last couple of days to whether I should shelve this talisman project until 0.34 so that I don't keep holding up release and the tournament even further. I looked back at the time estimate I gave to gammafunk the other month https://ptb.discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/1336155973425037352, and I'm already a week behind when I said form stuff could be merged, and 03:43:54 if I'm honest, there's at least two more weeks of work on my end before that point (and probably at least three.) Some of that is because I underestimated how long ironing out the poltergeist and revenant perks would take, but even so. (And then we'd still want at least a couple weeks for feedback and iteration on something so large and balance-affecting through such a big slice of the game.) Like, I've been making steady progress on it pretty much 03:43:54 every day for weeks now, but there's been the usual handful of surprise refactorings and "Idea that sounded good on paper didn't feel very good in practice, and I have to go back to the drawing board on it." and a bunch of shuffling of perks and flavor concepts between forms. I have the core mechanics of a bunch of forms implemented, but they all need more writing and a bunch need number adjustments and more balance testing and so forth. And I don't 03:43:55 want such a major project to be pushed to stable in a way that feels unfinished or rushed. Now, I know the release schedule is more a 'tradition' than something set in stone, and I have no idea how much lead time the tournament needs, even if we were ready to freeze 0.33 in a week; that's not my domain and I don't even play in it. Maybe people feel that being more delayed is worth another headline feature for 0.33? Which is why I'm bringing this up 03:43:55 here; I'd really appreciate other devs' opinions on the subject. (And of how soon freeze might happen if my work wasn't a part of it at all.) 03:44:00 <04dracoomega> (Like, I am going to keep working on talisman stuff regardless. It's just a question of whether to hold 0.33 freeze until it's ready, or put it in first thing in 0.34.) 04:32:39 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 04:52:27 <09gammafunk> %git 0.32.0 04:52:28 <04Cerebot> gammafunk * 0.32.0: doc: Update the changelog for the 0.32 release (7 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2a3b71ecb9cd 04:52:42 <09gammafunk> ??changelog 04:52:43 <04Cerebot> changelog[1/3]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - often incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 05:08:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1107-g3039f56 (34) 07:11:28 <09gammafunk> 5 weeks (3 for finishing up content and 2 for freeze would still put us at a release/tournament in late april, for what it's worth. But if you think it's likely that finishing up 0.33 content will go significantly longer than that, it might be wise to defer to 0.34. I don't feel strongly about delaying vs not delaying, but one thing I do need is a pretty firm commitment to keeping the release/tournament date once it's decided, and 07:11:28 that this date be decided at least a few weeks in advance, preferably a month in advance. This is so I can coordinate time off work so I can be around for seeing that the release is made and especially for early tournament work. It's really helpful to get major tournament issues addressed either before or in the early portion of the tournament. I enjoy doing that, but need days off to be able to do so reliably. So I'd say the absolute earliest for the 07:11:29 freeze/release+tournament dates are likely March 28th/April 11th. That would align with your deferral of talismans to 0.34. Anything later than that is fine if you or others just need more time or want to actually finish more content for this release, but once that's decided it can't be shifted or tweaked any more once we're 3 weeks from release 07:14:04 <09gammafunk> Also I'm not sure how close we are to necropolis being merged, which is another big 0.33 thing. Perhaps we need to account for the time for that at a minimum? It would be nice to have a bit of time to make a few vaults for it myself (and maybe nicolae would like to do this as well) 07:27:22 03nlavsky02 07* 0.33-a0-1108-gbae9310bee: fix: make Poisonous Vapours targeter ignore rPois enemies, again 10(8 minutes ago, 4 files, 53+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bae9310beedc 07:30:22 <04dracoomega> I asked Index how close she thinks Necropolis is to being mergeable and she says about a week or so 07:31:53 <04dracoomega> (And yes, for sure I'm not going to mess with a concrete date once it's already been decided, but I felt a bit self-conscious about potentially leaving this uncertain state to stretch further and further into the future as I work on this, and leaving other people in limbo) 09:14:19 <09gammafunk> Based on what's been said then, how about we try to set a firm date two weeks from now. At that point at least Necropolis should be merged and maybe you can make a final decision about putting talismans in 0.34. We can also decide said date at the end of next week if things go faster than expected. 09:15:21 <04dracoomega> Oh, for a second there, I thought you were saying to set the date for freeze at two weeks from now 09:16:00 <04dracoomega> (Which should still probably be doable for Necropolis, but is maybe unnecessarily tight.) But sure, we can agree to set a firm date then. 09:43:40 <04dracoomega> On a Necropolis-related note, I don't suppose anyone knows off-hand if portal vaults are generated before the player enters them (in a similar fashion that branches are generated at once and in a specific order, for seed stability) or dynamically as they are actually entered? (This feels like a thing I should know off-hand, but I do not >.>) 09:47:27 <06mumra> I think for reasons of seed stability they have to be 09:51:18 <04dracoomega> Then how do things like bazaars work? 09:52:39 <04dracoomega> (I know in wizmode, every time you exit one via the normal steps, it deletes the map and will generate a new one when you next enter) 09:53:29 <04dracoomega> And every bazaar instance is all the 'same' single-floor branch, so it can't pregen multiple different instances at once, as far as I kow 09:54:45 <04dracoomega> Well, this is something relevant, though it doesn't actually answer the bazaar question: https://github.com/Crawl/Crawl/commit/44eecae16b7868fd7edb08e51b38405515262467 09:55:02 <04dracoomega> Ah: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5121451e89b1886df99bbcf115243aa9360075f6 09:55:45 <04dracoomega> (This will also end up applying to Necropolises, of which more than one per game will be possible) 09:56:20 <04dracoomega> (I believe Index's plan involves a few very broad level ranges of the game, within which no more than one will ever generate. But that still means a chance for multiple across a full game.) 09:58:47 <04dracoomega> The linked commit does seem to largely reflect the current state 10:02:03 <04dracoomega> (It's probably fine to handle Necropolis in the same way, then, for the same reason.) 12:07:58 <09gammafunk> not much choice but to do so, unfortunately 12:09:02 <09gammafunk> I assume zigs are handled the same way 12:09:17 <09gammafunk> right, ditto troves 12:11:52 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-1109-gdf4e34529f: Fix poltergeists not getting the bonus slot from Zonguldrok/Fisticloak 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df4e34529faa 12:11:52 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-1110-g6e1b721bf3: Fix some wierdness with poltergeists and Fisticloak 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e1b721bf39b 12:11:52 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-1111-g10c1f53bb1: Let tiny and large species put gloves on their Fungal Fisticloak 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/10c1f53bb16e 12:12:08 <04dracoomega> (Troves additionally can't really pregen due to how they use acquirement code) 12:12:51 <09gammafunk> hrm, the main issue with a branch placing multiple times and having it be seed stable is that, due to our vault placement system preventing the placement of the same vault multiple times unless specifically tagged, we have to have a consistent order of generation, and player order could mean different instances of the same branch could be visted in different order 12:13:40 <09gammafunk> but like the commit says, if you pregenerate the first one and the branch can only place at most twice, that should solve the issue 12:13:55 <09gammafunk> I wonder what tricky aspects of pregen advil was referring to. Maybe it's more than just generation order 12:14:27 <09gammafunk> and yeah troves are impossible due to depending on player attributes 12:15:35 <04dracoomega> I mean, I think the big stopped on not doing pregen for bazaars is that the branch has only one floor, so it has to reuse it. There isn't really a backend way at the moment (without some meaningful rewriting) to save multiple instances of a given branch and place the player into the 'proper' one depending on what portal they take. 12:15:49 <04dracoomega> This seems conceptually doable, just a fair bit of work 12:15:57 <04dracoomega> (And not something to try and fit into this version, for sure) 12:16:39 <09gammafunk> well, putting another copy of the branch in a save isn't too bad. One could treat it like depth 12:17:40 <09gammafunk> but yeah, I guess it's true there is some modification to the saving of levels there 12:18:41 <09gammafunk> I'm not suggesting this go into the current release or anything, just wondering about the issues involved. I suppose if it were pretty easy to implement, advil would have done so 12:19:09 <09gammafunk> in fact, now that I think about it, Necropolis does have an innate trove-like problem as well, doesn't it? 12:19:23 <09gammafunk> in that ghosts are server/installation specific 12:20:00 <09gammafunk> and even on the same server, ghosts are dynamic temporally 12:20:39 <09gammafunk> I guess you could have seed stable selection of the maps/items, but ghosts themselves of course will always change regardless of any seed 12:21:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, that is presumably true of ghosts right now. The only stable thing is that there will be a ghost somewhere. 12:21:47 <04dracoomega> But what they are is going to inevitably depend on your bones files 12:23:22 <04dracoomega> (Ghosts even specifically use a distinct RNG from the rest of generation, to keep from potentially having a chain reaction) 12:23:42 <04dracoomega> As different bones files may result in a different number of rng calls 12:23:51 <04dracoomega> To generate the same number of ghosts 12:28:26 <06mumra> You could solve some problems by just storing a seed for a given branch or portal, so you can generate it at any time from that seed. But the problem with this for main branches is you have vaults that can only place once per game etc. so they're still affected by branch order 12:29:27 <06mumra> But, for necropolis assuming you didn't use unique vaults, you could generate them from a seed. 13:34:13 Umm guys 13:35:25 The reason Nobody has "low kill count"* is 100% guaranteed because no-one is crazy enough to fight what is essentially a super stacked multi-phase boss with obscure mechanics and crazy spells 13:35:38 rare crawl L 13:38:23 Oh and as an extra bonus if for some reason you burn 20 consumables and risk dying to kill him instead of imp parking him he drops nothing 13:38:28 just as a parting shot 13:38:36 to spite you from beyond the 300th grave 13:44:58 <02Monkooky> there's absolutely no chance this is true, the playerbase is quite clearly willing to throw themselves into entirely unwise fights 13:46:36 <02Monkooky> (also Nobody is significantly less scary than Vv) 14:00:40 !killratio Nobody 14:00:46 Nobody wins 0.456% of battles. 14:02:18 <09hellmonk> need a unique ogre called Somebody 14:18:39 and, inevitably, some player will charm it and have it kill Nobody 14:23:08 <06mumra> plus a shapeshifter called Anybody to complete the trio 14:33:04 actually you still need to work out what "Everybody" would be 😈 14:52:28 <12ge0ff> Somebody and Everybody should be alt-timeline versions of Nobody! 15:06:30 <02Monkooky> for what it's worth, I did nearly die to Nobody 15:06:51 <02Monkooky> though I got jumpscared while resting in V5 so I was not exactly coming in to the battle fresh 16:05:05 <09hellmonk> fr: ancienter zymes for extended rework that prevent the player from healing by any means while in los 16:06:17 <04dracoomega> A no-healing aura monster does seem like it could have merit somewhere 16:06:40 <04dracoomega> (Potentially very scary) 16:06:59 <06regret-⸸nde※> Ely-themed holy gimmick of enforcing a monopoly? 16:07:14 <04dracoomega> Ely is the only one who isn't a jerk, alas 16:07:37 <04dracoomega> (But I do think you could flavor it in a way that was appropriate for a holy, too, actually) 16:12:32 <09gammafunk> or an aura where the player can't regen but all monsters in aura get extra regen 16:12:40 <09gammafunk> suddenly you're fighting 8 parghits 16:23:56 <02Monkooky> that feels absolutely miserable if two of them ever slap the aura on each other 16:25:08 <04dracoomega> Not to endorse that specific effect, but it's worth noting that apises already don't give the health buff to other apises 16:25:37 <04dracoomega> So I don't think it would be weird not to have them stack on each other in that way if we didn't want them to 16:33:02 <09gammafunk> I could sort of imagine both proposed effects working in different contexts on different monsters, but maybe it's too many different anti-healing effects to have 16:33:27 <09gammafunk> Feels like one problem with the no-heal aura/debuff is that much of the time it's just doing nothing 16:33:45 <09gammafunk> obv if one has a healing god like tso it's more impactful 16:34:17 <09hellmonk> It needs a very specific context to work, yeah 16:34:31 <09hellmonk> which is why I suggested extendo somewhere 16:34:51 <09gammafunk> I do sort of like the idea of a buff/aura that gives monsters in the aura extra regen, feels like that would frequently be spicy. agree it shouldn't be stackable probably 16:34:57 <09gammafunk> (let it stack in megazigs) 16:35:39 <09gammafunk> big bonus points if you can somehow give it a plant theme connecting it to the zyme 16:36:08 <09gammafunk> oh, the zyme doesn't specifically have a plant theme per se, does it 16:36:25 <09gammafunk> it's more like some kind of bacterium 16:37:28 <09gammafunk> ...wow 16:37:48 <09gammafunk> > Zyme, zīm, n. a ferment: a disease-germ—the supposed specific cause of a zymotic disease. and: > Zymotic disease is an obsolete medical term that refers to an infectious disease. It was used in the 19th century to describe acute infectious diseases that were believed to be caused by fermentation processes within the body. 16:38:11 <09gammafunk> all this time I just assumed it had some connection to plants 16:39:18 <04dracoomega> A holy that gives regen to allies is very much already planned. (Possibly as an AoE buff spell instead of an aura, but for sure) 16:39:33 <09gammafunk> nice 16:39:47 <04dracoomega> It's the sort of support monster I planned to be able to use both in extended and specific places outside of it (since it naturally scales heavily to what's with it) 16:39:48 <09gammafunk> yeah, I guess that effect really doesn't need to be paired with no player regen 16:39:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-1111-g10c1f53bb1 (34) 16:40:23 <04dracoomega> (Had been thinking of it being a Peri) 16:47:03 <06mumra> I have a healing aura on one of the depths-level lichen monsters I've partially finished. (it's a radius 2 aura that only affects other lichens, and it only activates while the lichen in question is "composting" for a few turns after damaging you. so it's sort of a vampiric healing aura) 17:16:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.33-a0-1112-g4b41cfc14b: Account for formless players in Xom messages. 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4b41cfc14b69 17:16:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.33-a0-1113-g0534b38e66: Account for muscle-less players in Xom messages. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0534b38e662b 18:48:21 <06mumra> huh. 18:48:28 <06mumra> %git 71fc851 18:48:29 <04Cerebot> Dan Bryant {wheals} * 0.18-a0-508-g71fc851c24: Added support for multi-zap indicator in Tiles. (11 years ago, 8 files, 29+ 13-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/71fc851c24e3 18:48:52 <06mumra> seems this commit really broke the AFF_MAYBE display for non-piercing beam targetter 18:49:28 <06mumra> the whole path shows as AFF_YES even tho it might not make it past the first monster 18:55:25 <06mumra> and in practise i don't think AFF_MULTIPLE is working as intended either for bounces 18:58:02 <06mumra> oh it is, it's just a barely distinguishable shade of yellow from AFF_YES 19:09:02 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-g0fc2f0ceab: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 222+ 89-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0fc2f0ceab69 19:11:14 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-gd190263f26: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 222+ 89-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d190263f265b 20:19:40 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-g0956a7d4e9: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 234+ 102-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0956a7d4e9b5 20:22:58 New branch created: pull/4387 (7 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1108-gd3fb96fa34: Let zombies/skeletons use equipment if they have it 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d3fb96fa340f 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1109-g5e4758d58a: Render weapons for zombies and skeletons 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 65+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e4758d58a9f 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1110-g9c616e7a67: Support random archers and undead archers in bands 10(5 weeks ago, 10 files, 194+ 78-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9c616e7a6740 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1111-g1bf7071d36: Let derived undead smash down doors sometimes 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 39+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1bf7071d3669 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1112-gec793adfe1: Use a hitfunc for ranged aiming (and fix "maybe" hits) 10(45 minutes ago, 5 files, 35+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec793adfe150 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1113-g54510a2dd5: Yaktaur Cleric: new monster 10(7 months ago, 26 files, 316+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/54510a2dd587 20:23:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4387 * 0.33-a0-1114-g9deda1b82b: Spirit Yak: new monster 10(6 months ago, 42 files, 135+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9deda1b82bfc 23:33:14 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1113-g0534b38e66 (34) 23:35:30 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1113-g0534b38e66 (34) 23:43:42 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-g167fb12cda: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 282+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/167fb12cdaca 23:46:59 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4383 * 0.33-a0-1088-g456bff303e: Call some tiles rendering code less often 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 285+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/456bff303e4f 23:58:41 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1113-g0534b38e66