00:07:03 <12ebering> interesting take on level feelings 00:07:29 <12ebering> if I ever unretire i can imagine codepaths used for this also being useful for a finite pan randomized level feeling experience that I have sketched in the past 00:23:33 03gammafunk02 07* 0.33-a0-1087-g28ef6d8391: Put certain traps in the stash (Ge0ff) 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 37+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28ef6d8391f6 00:55:29 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1087-g28ef6d8391 01:16:40 <06mumra> What's the =j problem sorry? was using -j4 01:33:22 <04dracoomega> I think the raw idea of 'Feature on floor you need to shut down to avoid bad level effect that you cannot otherwise avoid' is actually interesting at a base level. There are hard questions about how and where it fits into a Crawl context (in my opinion, at least), but it would absolutely work well in some games and I think that makes it worth pondering in this one. However, I think the idea of using it as an outright replacement 01:33:23 for explore traps for reasons of player psychology is... questionable and likely doomed. Like, I am well aware that shafts come up as a topic of player complaint on a semi-regular basis, and obviously some people consider them to be the game 'punishing' them. But - and I hope this doesn't sound dismissive - I don't think that should be taken as an indicator that there is actually a problem to be 'fixed' with them. Players complain about a lot of 01:33:23 things on a semi-regular basis that cause them to lose games, including miscasts and banishment and paralysis and out of depth spawns and even missing attacks several times in a row or RNG in general. This is not to say that player feelings are irrelevant, but that a certain degree of dissatisfaction with 'RNG-based effect which caused me to lose the game' is inevitable, whether those effects are good or bad (and if they can't threaten to kill you, 01:33:24 then what is even the point?) 01:33:24 <06mumra> @hellmonk While I was going to sleep I was having a vaguely similar thought to what you describe above. The only thing I worried about was it is still out of the player's control, you can go down stairs and then get stuck on a floor that you have no way of dealing with. A simple fix might be to have the stairs marked as special so you can warn the player before going down them, but it's less interesting than getting to see something 01:33:25 before you decide whether to deal with it (gauntlets are great for giving such agency) So another option would be some kind of iteration on having two shrines - the first one you have to activate to begin the event, at which point stairs are sealed and monsters are spawned between you and the other shrine. Could be cool if all the monsters start as statues and "come to life" when the shrine is activated, so you have a chance to gauge what's about 01:33:25 to happen. A bit like the old lair end with dire elephant statues which I always enjoyed but was removed for spoileryness ... 01:33:26 <04dracoomega> Significantly, basically every time someone complains in #dcss about shafts or whatever, multiple players come to their defense and say that they think they are good and interesting. I've seen threads on the subject on reddit where even non-expert players regularly say that they like them. And for what it's worth, I like them quite a bit. Shafts create some of the most memorably tense experiences in Crawl, in my opinion. But in 01:33:26 any case, I think any effect that unpredictably locks a player into an especially-threatening floor (due to whatever its level modifier is) will be subject to most of the same complains about being 'randomly screwed over by the game', and are in fact likely to be more threatening than most explore traps tend to be in practice. A decent bit of threat balance in Crawl is predicated on the fact that the player can just run away - and places where this 01:33:27 isn't the case tend to be both more dangerous and a lot more curated on their possible threat level (there's a lot less variance on the danger of many portal vaults than a lot of D floors, for instance. Getting trapped on D:7 floor with the_grid sounds murderous.) For this reason, if such a thing were to be used, I wonder if its use should be constrained to specific depths/branches in some way? Is it 'safer' if the player can be expected to be more 01:33:27 stable and have a more effective toolkit by the point this can happen? Or if it's in a place where you can 'expect' it to happen regularly? I am honestly not sure at the moment. 01:33:33 <04dracoomega> (And of course, 'randomized level modifiers on floors you can only leave through a fixed and guarded point' are already planned for 0.34 Pan, though that doesn't necessarily rule out using variations on this theme elsewhere, of course.) 01:34:02 <04dracoomega> (Okay, what are the odds of someone else getting a message right in the middle of this big thing I just spent a while typing and pasted at once, I wonder? :P) 01:34:32 <06mumra> That was incredible timing 😂 01:39:27 <06mumra> (I should mention, and I sort of assumed this was part of hellmonk's proposal too, but with my version you could make the shrines totally optional, maybe even timed, but offer a nice loot reward at the end) 01:48:22 <02Monkooky> my feeling is if this was implemented, it should be fairly common 01:50:17 <02Monkooky> like, no shrine floors before d8 or something (specific numbers up for question), but shrine floors are frequent enough that you will see multiple shrine floors in any given run 01:52:19 <02Monkooky> I feel like a large portion of the problem with explore traps is how rare they are- a run that never gets shafted or hit with a significant forced TP is entirely plausible, and it can feel like the "solution" is simply highroll on explore traps 01:54:55 <04dracoomega> That doesn't feel true to me at all? I guess I don't have raw numbers, but I would expect to get shafted multiple times every run (and teleported quite a few more times than that) 01:55:29 <04dracoomega> I don't think we have any easy way to look this up, though 01:56:34 <02Monkooky> picking a random log saw exactly one shaft 01:56:34 <04dracoomega> But I feel like you get shafted pre-Lair like half the time, and by the end of the game it's definitely happened several times 01:56:46 <02Monkooky> they were a formicid, so no tp traps 01:56:52 <04dracoomega> Formicids can't get shafted either 01:56:58 <04dracoomega> Unless they do it themselves 01:58:14 <02Monkooky> wait, really? you still get the fall down a shaft message for your own shafts? 01:58:18 <02Monkooky> that's wack 01:59:08 <02Monkooky> found a felid with exactly one 01:59:20 <02Monkooky> another with 3 02:00:35 <02Monkooky> another one shaft- from a non-random sample it's looking like 1 shaft games are pretty common 02:00:59 <06mumra> On a current dev note: Hopefully I'll get some chance to finally polish up a couple of PRs this weekend. Been struggling a bit with my dev environment this week since switching laptops, but I have a working build in msys2 now at least. Particularly I want to try and get scribes and wand PRs updated based on your feedback; they've sat around for so long now. Balloon yaks could maybe be merged with just minor stat tweaking and maybe the 02:00:59 numbers on the cloud spreader (they could probably go in a few vaults as well) 02:02:13 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3794 * 0.33-a0-1088-g50e0e15244: Balloon Yak: new Zot monster 10(7 minutes ago, 19 files, 95+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50e0e15244d4 02:04:42 <04dracoomega> It basically makes a shaft trap under yourself and then enters it, yes 02:04:53 <04dracoomega> Code-wise, I'm pretty sure 04:34:19 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:16:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1087-g28ef6d8 (34) 09:42:47 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4366 * 0.33-a0-1082-gc772f005db: Make monsters stop attacking when their target becomes friendly 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 9+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c772f005db22 10:30:14 <06mumra> That PR tangentially got me thinking about an orb ego that has a low chance to charm monsters every time they attack you 10:31:59 <06mumra> i suppose it'd overlap too much with guile, maybe on some unrand armour / shield ? 11:45:28 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3794 * 0.33-a0-1088-gbaede8355c: Balloon Yak: new Zot monster 10(26 seconds ago, 19 files, 94+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/baede8355c17 12:03:56 New branch created: pull/4371 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 12:03:59 03mumra02 {Peter Hurst} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1088-gb1daf29555: Refactor spell range 10(5 months ago, 30 files, 244+ 169-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b1daf29555d5 12:03:59 03Peter Hurst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-g39538dbd7e: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(3 minutes ago, 24 files, 78+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39538dbd7e65 12:09:00 <06mumra> Got a few other things I've been tinkering with for a while and some are more ready than others so I'll just see what the feedback is on some of these 🙂 12:13:14 <06regret-⸸nde※> I like the mechanical concept in a bunch of ways (though I am not capable of reviewing the particulars of the code implementation). I'm immediately concerned in its flavour and deployment: * Half-moons are cool symbolic imagery to emphasize, but it will always read as "half moon moth, half something else" with this particular phrasing. * The pushed code puts it in Depths and V despite saying it's only supposed to be in the 12:13:14 latter. There's been deliberate efforts to split these apart, and I'd rather not use something fey and ephemeral in the branch without many fairies in it (V's boggarts) versus the branch that does (spriggans and alderkings), much less the branch immediately before a branch with moths (Zot). 12:15:58 <09hellmonk> Crescent moon moth clearly, and then reduce the range to 1/3 12:20:10 <06mumra> * Hadn't even thought of that particular phrasing, i was toing and froing between "halfmoon moth" and "half moon moth" so perhaps the former would be better (or something else) * Slightly a last minute oversight. Locally i have this sizable monsters branch with various almost-finished ideas, including a few more yaktaurs and support monsters, and then different makeups of yaktaur bands depending on the branch; so this moth would rather be 12:20:10 in the Vaults bands. Extracting it to a separate branch, I stuck it in Depths for some reason but yeah it doesn't make sense to have both. I wouldn't really call this ephemeral, and i was more thinking about the tendency of moths to hang out in old closets as the reason it'd be in V. 12:26:14 <06mumra> It sounds like you think this mechanically would be more appropriate in Depths, just not being a moth? 12:26:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> The most organized and artificial branch in the game, currently with visible brushes and mops and buckets, is unable to clean moths out of their closets? >_> 12:27:39 <06mumra> Why do they need mops and brushes? Because it's very dusty 😆 12:32:50 <04dracoomega> I'll have more to say later (and actually give the code a look-over), but as some very cursory thoughts: -Moths are cool and moon imagery is cool. ('Half-Moon Moth' probably avoids the bisection problem?) -The mechanic is conceptually interesting, though I'd want to give a little more thought to exactly how it ends up playing with a handful of things. -I agree with Index that the monster feels like a weird flavor-fit for Vaults. 12:32:50 ...though I guess Vaults does already have a bunch of animals? Feels different to me somehow, though? Certainly as part of warden bands, at any rate. Depths might indeed be a more appropriate home? 12:37:40 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4277 * 0.33-a0-1088-g6b9eecd09c: Fix far viewing 10(6 weeks ago, 5 files, 90+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b9eecd09cdb 12:39:28 <06regret-⸸nde※> A bunch of V weaker monsters are leftovers from not having weaker fodder to re-use for V, but the spiders are only in the presence of entropy weavers and beastmasters eventually find most of the other animals. (I was going to diminish the former with a few new monsters once the talisman work is done, actually.) I would much rather prefer the moth flavour for Depths or for this to find some completely different flavour to fit in 12:39:29 V (though admittedly there's not a lot of less-full glyphs that would particularly help here aside from another poltergeist type, a tortoise, or a non-thunderous ogre.) 14:00:11 03Peter Hurst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-g1f93eead5a: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(80 seconds ago, 24 files, 75+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1f93eead5a24 14:02:23 03mumra02 {Peter Hurst} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-gef3c1e05a5: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(53 seconds ago, 24 files, 75+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef3c1e05a516 14:12:11 <06mumra> Added the hyphen and removed fom V... Was wondering about making the spell range a hard cap at 3 or 4 instead "half rounded down", doesn't make much practical difference in the end and it's simpler. The point is to impede casters dealing with everything at a full LOS by this stage of the game. Maybe there are other depths bands it could be added to but I think most depths monsters are more threatening if you can't hit them at range 14:26:17 03Peter Hurst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-g1479c20184: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(11 minutes ago, 26 files, 77+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1479c2018480 14:27:24 03Peter Hurst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-g046aba0ce9: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(24 seconds ago, 26 files, 77+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/046aba0ce9ae 14:28:31 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-g7974a8c28c: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(16 seconds ago, 26 files, 77+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7974a8c28c97 15:36:19 <06dolorous_84348> Just add a rare enemy with a ranged attack that shoots magical mothballs (that coincidentally damage a lot more than just moths). If there were more of them, there wouldn't be a moth problem in the branch, right? 🙂 16:04:32 <09hellmonk> bug zapper (it zaps you with bugs) 16:16:29 <08nicolae> mothmoth. a moth with an aura of moths 16:27:43 <08wormsofcan> dancing mops when 16:29:15 <12ebering> dancing mops but its tile is a pug in a tutu 16:29:32 <12ebering> I have just the quote for its description 16:40:04 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-1087-g28ef6d8391 (34) 18:12:00 New branch created: pull/4372 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4372 18:12:02 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4372 * 0.33-a0-1088-g6b9eecd09c: Fix far viewing 10(6 weeks ago, 5 files, 90+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b9eecd09cdb 18:12:02 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4372 * 0.33-a0-1089-g86b6e2522a: Don't crash when targeting outside the map 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86b6e2522a4d 18:14:15 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4372 * 0.33-a0-1088-g7c766121a7: Don't crash when targeting outside the map 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c766121a743 19:33:27 New branch created: pull/4373 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4373 19:33:28 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4373 * 0.33-a0-1088-g0b86a22594: Clarify that the hood of the assassin only effects melee 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b86a22594b9 20:34:51 <06mumra> every time you kill one it splits into two more 20:52:10 New branch created: pull/4374 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4374 20:52:11 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4374 * 0.33-a0-1088-gdcad0623ed: Fix a crash when mirrored Nobody uses pyrrhic recollection 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dcad0623ed7b 21:25:23 For what my 2 cents are worht, I agree that choice is a key question re: additional challenges 21:25:40 gauntlets are fun, shafts are ok because you can just run 21:25:52 03WizardIke02 {GitHub} 07* 0.33-a0-1088-g3176162370: Clarify that the hood of the assassin only effects melee (#4373) 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3176162370d0 21:25:54 but having it be "get thru this extra challenge or die" 21:26:13 does seem like a recipe for annoyance 21:28:07 I feel like shafting is already on the "railroading" end 21:28:17 I do think the high-rolling idea has some merit 21:28:28 if it is expected on every ru n, yes it's l ess of a big deal 21:28:41 but I do wonder if it'll make squishy / stealthy characters harder 21:40:00 03mumra02 07* 0.33-a0-1089-g737f9c07e4: docs: Mention advancecomp dependency for msys2 10(85 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/737f9c07e43c 21:48:36 <09gammafunk> @mumra do you still use msys2? Don't prefer WSL? 21:53:05 Oh no, there are under 100 PRs open. Quick, I m ust open 5 more :D 21:53:08 :P 21:53:20 More seriously tho I think I'm gonna try to make a boot knife 21:58:28 New branch created: hotswap (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/hotswap 21:58:30 03hellmonk02 07[hotswap] * 0.33-a0-1083-gc06d7ba4f7: New spell: heated exchange (sydnet) 10(3 minutes ago, 10 files, 154+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c06d7ba4f703 21:59:36 New branch created: pull/4375 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4375 21:59:36 Branch pull/4375 updated to be equal with hotswap: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4375 21:59:54 <09hellmonk> alright it works, somebody else can figure out how to make it good 22:05:05 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1088-gf48e6f4197: Refactor spell range 10(2 minutes ago, 30 files, 243+ 169-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f48e6f419792 22:05:05 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4371 * 0.33-a0-1089-gf7e7d55436: Half Moon Moth: new aura monster 10(2 hours ago, 24 files, 76+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f7e7d554361f 22:07:09 <09hellmonk> next up I'm going to make a fire/forgecraft spell that turns your wielded weapon into a bomb 22:07:35 <09hellmonk> or something 22:07:49 <09gammafunk> I keep saying: just add The Bomb 22:07:54 <06mumra> @gammafunk Since I switched laptop, graphics haven't been working properly on my wsl builds, so I thought I'd switch to msys2 and bulid on windows. Although, that was running the native build inside WSL ... i should probably try crosscompiling instead 22:08:23 <09gammafunk> hrm, yeah 22:08:46 <09gammafunk> crosscompiling to native windows instead of building for linux, you mean? 22:08:52 <06mumra> yep 22:09:15 <06mumra> thought msys2 could give me some speed improvement over WSL but no, it's terrible 22:09:27 <09gammafunk> nothing wrong with using msys2 so long as it works, was just a bit surprised with how popular WSL is these days (and far easier to set up properly) 22:09:46 <09hellmonk> does anyone have a list of spell school crossovers we don't have yet 22:10:14 <09gammafunk> can't have necro/tloc 22:10:31 <09gammafunk> I feel tloc probably has the least dual school spells total 22:10:31 <09hellmonk> saving that for level 9 portal to the bone zone 22:10:43 <09hellmonk> that was true the last time I checked (about a year ago) 22:10:53 <09hellmonk> assume it's still true 22:10:58 <09gammafunk> which I assume that's what you mean by crossover, just multischool spells of whatever combination? 22:11:03 <09hellmonk> yeah 22:11:11 <09hellmonk> I know there are still some gaps 22:11:15 <06mumra> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/List_of_spells_by_school is quite useful here but obviously not up to date with trunk 22:11:17 <09gammafunk> I'd imagine forgecraft has relatively fewer 22:11:20 <09hellmonk> not that we have any obligation to fill these 22:11:54 <06mumra> necro is very low on crossovers as well 22:12:03 <09hellmonk> I know forgecraft has at least fire,ice,earth,air,alch 22:12:13 <09hellmonk> and uhhh, conj 22:12:24 <09gammafunk> forgecraft/summon, the galaxy brain choice 22:12:52 <09gammafunk> it summons a guy that forges a thing for you! 22:13:13 <09hellmonk> forge monster spawner 22:13:14 <09gammafunk> and then make it forgecraft/summon/necro, where that guy you summon is dead 22:13:28 <09hellmonk> forge DEAD_MONSTER spawner 22:14:58 <09hellmonk> I wonder if single spell spellbooks are still planned for next version 22:17:03 03WizardIke02 {Peter Hurst} 07* 0.33-a0-1090-g69e70d1efc: Fix far viewing 10(6 weeks ago, 5 files, 90+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69e70d1efc00 22:19:44 <06mumra> gah, why github inserting real name 22:20:48 <09gammafunk> mailmap 22:20:57 <09gammafunk> I can add it or you can 22:22:29 <09gammafunk> hrm, wonder if github respects that for commit maker or only commit author though 22:23:50 <09gammafunk> hrm, never mind 22:23:58 <09gammafunk> you're already in the mailmap 22:25:07 <09gammafunk> ah, actually 22:25:12 <09gammafunk> yeah it's a different address in mailmap 22:25:44 <09gammafunk> so I'd add the one you're currently using to the mailmap as well 22:25:58 <06mumra> oh wow both completely defunct addresses 22:26:29 <09gammafunk> although I'm a bit confused by "chucksellick" given that it's totally different than the name in your email :gammafHeh: 22:29:36 <09hellmonk> next you're gonna tell me your real name isn't gamma funk 22:30:37 dumb question.... 22:30:42 <06mumra> 😂 idk why that's even still my github username tbh but it's an annoying thing to change' 22:30:57 how do unrand art-func.h methods get hooked up? 22:31:01 is itjust pattern based? 22:32:02 <06mumra> and i don't use mumra anywhere else except crawl and steam 🤷 22:32:43 <09gammafunk> cpp /* * util/art-data.pl scans through this file to grab the functions * non-standard unrandarts use and put them into the unranddata structs * in art-data.h, so the function names must have the form of * _UNRAND_ENUM_func_name() in order to be recognised. */ 22:32:49 <09gammafunk> re: art-func.h 22:33:14 <09gammafunk> (I forgot that irc can't see the reply indication of a discord reply) 22:34:56 Ah, my search fu was slightyly off 22:35:00 I had tried to look for that 22:35:06 but came up empty on e.g. _world_reacts 22:35:14 because thne pl file has world_reacts 22:36:17 Only weapons can have melee_effects? 22:36:35 03mumra02 07* 0.33-a0-1091-g6823389612: Update mailmap address 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6823389612b2 22:37:42 03WizardIke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4372 * 0.33-a0-1088-g9252e69e53: Don't crash when targeting outside the map 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9252e69e5358 22:37:46 oh, I see 22:37:50 bit redundant otherwise, yeah 22:42:05 03Antern02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.33-a0-1092-gce43c158f7: feat: add a tile_min_stat_width_characters option 10(2 years ago, 4 files, 23+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce43c158f70c 22:56:36 <06mumra> crazy idea for heated exchange: make it tloc/fire/ice -- one of you is burned in exchange for the other being frozen, so it's really an exchange of heat 22:56:48 oooooh that sounds fun 22:56:53 I'm building my bootknife PR 22:56:55 we'll see how itgoes :D 22:57:33 <06mumra> and if you give it to hedge wizard instead of blink, it plays more into the hedge wizard having a bit from every school (currently they only have air and alchemy from elemental schools) 22:58:24 <09gammafunk> ??warper 22:58:24 <04Cerebot> warper[1/1]: A {warrior-mage} background (abbreviated as Wr) that starts with the spells {Blink}, {Lesser Beckoning}, {Vhi's Electric Charge}, {Teleport Other}, and {Maxwell's Portable Piledriver}. Also starts with a choice of weapons, skill in Fighting and Translocations, +0 leather armour, some darts of dispersal, and a scroll of blinking. 22:58:58 <09gammafunk> ??hedge wizard 22:58:58 <04Cerebot> hedge wizard[1/3]: A {mage} background (abbrev. HW) that starts with {Magic Dart}, {Call Imp}, {Blink}, {Grave Claw}, and {Mephitic Cloud}, plus a dagger, hat, robe, and potion of magic. Known for summoning hordes of imps and then mephing them. 22:59:22 <09gammafunk> summoning hordes of imps 23:00:02 <06mumra> that is quite out of date yeah 23:00:13 <09gammafunk> but yeah, I kind of like that idea re: blink for a spell substitution. I'm not sure about tloc/fire/ice since three schools is a tough sell 23:00:22 <09gammafunk> well, it's not that out of date since it does have Grave Claw 23:00:25 <09gammafunk> which is a recent change 23:00:36 <09gammafunk> but that hordes of imps reference is funny (and out of date) 23:00:57 <09gammafunk> I mean, if you count the number of imps summoned by a HW for the entire game, it's probably still a horde... 23:01:01 <06mumra> it was index's suggestion to put it on HW 23:01:31 <06mumra> as they lack any direct damage beyond magic dart (but warper has piledriver) 23:02:04 <09gammafunk> ??grave claw 23:02:05 <04Cerebot> Grave Claw[1/2]: A L2 Necromancy spell, new to 0.32, in the Necromancer starting book. Smite targets an enemy with physical damage and inflicts a few turns of Bind (-Move). Needs living enemy deaths to recharge it- you get 1 on memorization, 1 every four to six kills, and can hold a max of 3 at once (with charges visible when casting / quivered). 23:02:25 <06mumra> https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/1349536761407340656 23:03:10 Ok, getting somewhere 23:03:14 bootknifing works 23:03:17 but the curare doesn't 23:03:30 <09gammafunk> curare? 23:04:25 Was gonna reuse the snakebite effect.. tho maybe slow isn't the right choice 23:04:27 <09gammafunk> wasn't the context of this about stabbing originally? curare melee effect is covered by snakebite and also doesn't really assist stabbing/stealth in any way 23:04:54 Yeah, it was and is 23:05:11 just trying to work out which effect i can steal sensibly, but you're right, even if it applied was wrong choice :D 23:05:23 maybe steal from confusing touch? hmmm 23:05:58 <09gammafunk> yeah, it's good to get the code structurally working; it make take some iteration to find the most reasonable effect 23:06:08 That was basically what I was going for 23:06:11 <09gammafunk> since stabbing is always a bit weird to enable 23:06:12 getting something working 23:06:23 also need to decide if damage is a prereq 23:06:48 <09gammafunk> fine to just pick something simple and vaguely within the goal for now, but wouldn't be surprised if a new type of effect is best 23:06:58 <09gammafunk> not sure if chance for confusion would be just fine, it might be 23:07:03 We already have sooooo many stab effects is the thing 23:07:06 feels like one should be fine 23:07:18 spriggan's knife just straight-up upgrades to high tier 50% of time 23:07:23 but that won't quite work ehre 23:07:29 <09gammafunk> no I don't mean a new stab type 23:08:09 <09gammafunk> just something that it's directly lifting an existing melee debuff (since that can make the unrand just redundant with said existing thing) 23:08:25 <09gammafunk> confusion is pretty strong but if it's not always applied... 23:08:39 <09gammafunk> it is one of the more annoying one to involuntarily have applied, but it's not that bad 23:08:53 <09gammafunk> with confusing touch you're making that decision and it's used somewhat sparingly 23:09:06 <09gammafunk> but stuff like chaos confusion exists and is fine 23:09:08 <09gammafunk> ??chaos 23:09:13 <04Cerebot> chaos brand[1/20]: Applies a random weapon brand or chaos effect(~17%). Chaos effects: on damage, applies one of haste/might/confuse (11%), slow/weak/halfwill (9%), rage(zerk or frenzy)/corrode/vitrify/blind (4%), blink/ensnare/minipara/sleep/petrify (3%), polymorph (2%), or clone (1%, against monsters only). Effects are taken out of the pool in many cases where they would do nothing. 23:09:43 <09gammafunk> I will say that confusion feels a bit odd thematically as the debuff from a boot knife 23:10:00 <09gammafunk> it's more like a boot...needle? 23:10:30 <09gammafunk> others here might have some good suggestions, which can be made more easilly one you have a pr to comment on 23:12:17 I wasn't proposing making it apply confusing touch, jus tborrowing code 23:12:28 think I may start out with paralysis for 2 turns or something 23:12:35 maybe OP but easier to nerf / debate from there 23:12:49 not 100% chance of applyign tho 23:16:40 I also will need to bikeshed the name 23:16:50 <09gammafunk> https://tenor.com/bU7hz.gif 23:16:50 I currently have of scuffed shins which is lame 23:17:00 <09gammafunk> alternate boot unrand idea 23:25:56 <06mumra> greaves? (slightly overlaps with plate armour which already specifies it includes greaves) 23:33:19 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1092-gce43c158f7 (34) 23:35:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1092-gce43c158f7 (34) 23:35:48 It feels fun if you manage to land a kick 23:36:01 but even with 100% chance of paralysis, even hitting with kicks isn't super often 23:36:19 New branch created: pull/4376 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4376 23:36:21 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4376 * 0.33-a0-1090-g53afe444d4: feat: New Unrand, Bootknife 10(41 minutes ago, 3 files, 45+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/53afe444d41b 23:39:09 Let the bikeshedding begin! 23:39:38 03Charlie Gettys02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4312 * 0.33-a0-958-g4d9970fd1e: Formatting nitpick 10(38 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d9970fd1e3d 23:40:45 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4312 * 0.33-a0-1090-g30f4f75755: ci: fix checkconventionalcommit.py 10(4 weeks ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30f4f757556f 23:41:34 I do like the idea of making it allow equipping a second knife and only a second knife 23:41:37 that might be more fun 23:41:38 idk 23:41:52 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4376 * 0.33-a0-1090-gf22510167c: feat: New Unrand, Bootknife 10(46 minutes ago, 3 files, 45+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f22510167c5e 23:58:44 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1092-gce43c158f7