00:13:29 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1003-ge20181a0a6 (34) 00:55:44 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1003-ge20181a0a6 02:03:12 <06mumra> From some testing on both, I think either effect is probably too strong 02:06:48 <04dracoomega> I could see it, yeah 02:07:08 <06mumra> Although, would make resistance a lot more relevant 02:07:37 <04dracoomega> It would (but it's also a little early to expect a player to have access to it) 02:08:21 <04dracoomega> (Wondering briefly if there's any potential in them moving fast and attacking slowly?) 04:33:28 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 04:43:52 crawl_setup-0.33-a0-1003-ge20181a0a6 (tiles): "Weak" status effect from weakening gaze does not show as debuff icon on player doll 04:44:09 I'm going to remember my password for bug reports ONE DAY don't worry 04:51:57 <09gammafunk> I think your password is 12345 04:52:53 Either that or QWERT 04:56:02 <09gammafunk> good think you used uppercase, that's extra security 04:56:36 I try to find an orange demon to see if I get the weak status icon but that should work iirc 05:06:15 @gammafunk are there any uh... changes slated for spriggan? Asking for a friend 05:24:56 <06mumra> I don't think anyone has particularly talked about spriggans in quite a while. This could either mean they're totally fine and nobody has any plans at all to touch them, or that they're just so uninteresting that they're soon due for a complete rewrite or removal 😂 05:28:36 <04dracoomega> Weak not showing a status icon on the player doll isn't a bug; most statuses do not. Only a couple of them do by default, although a handful more of them can be enabled via option, including Weak. (See tile_player_status_icons ) 05:29:34 @dracoomega ty for clearing that up 05:31:36 @mumra They have a very extreme set of mutations/aptitudes so they are unique in that way 05:32:18 <04dracoomega> I have no plans to do anything with spriggans, at the very least 05:32:29 <04dracoomega> Nor have I heard anyone else having any 05:35:34 Excellent! Sprigganshifter beast>maw>vampire test is go 05:40:01 * BentoMon suddenly wonders what the heck is the plot of that migration list. "Sounds like a novel in the making almost." 05:54:06 <06mumra> Had a random idea I never posted for a mounted species. You could do this with spriggans, if it was felt they weren't interesting enough. Basically you start with an egg that will hatch at a certain XL into a permanent ally; for a spriggan i guess this would have to go egg->larva->hornet. You can mount/dismount them with an ability and get plusses/minuses to various things when mounted; so maybe spriggan get their full move speed only 05:54:06 when mounted (removing some early game advantage) and flight, worse to-hit with melee, but gain a stinging aux from the mount, etc. etc. Maybe another ability like vaulting off the mount to perform a strong melee attack. (Mounts don't respond to 't' menu, they always stick near you, if they die they resurrect on an XP timer ... something like this anyway) Originally I thought of this as a 'paleontologist' background who started with a dinosaur egg but 05:54:07 was otherwise quite similar to above ... Except once it dies it's gone, you can never get another egg. (This was before seisomosaurus eggs were a thing ... so I'd maybe change it to some other ebast 05:57:03 sounds like something from FCB 05:59:59 <06mumra> what's FCB sorry? 06:03:14 Frogcomposband, a popular variant of Angband. Basically another roguelike that went into a very different direction than dcss 06:03:22 Features a few classes that focus on mounted combat 06:04:40 Dunno how it works there exactly but somewhat similar to what you described 06:13:52 mounted combat is a nightmare in most rpgs because it is inherently hard to balance... lots of questions to consider. Do you "fuse" with your mount into a single entity? Can you be dismounted? can the mount be attacked sperately? do you lose all your cool stuff when the mount dies? 06:14:41 one of the pitfalls to avoiod with any beast-related stuff is to let em have static stat blocks... have fun with your 10 hp horse at max level otherwise 06:23:11 <06mumra> Absolutely, there are reasons why are any kind of permanent ally is non-existent outside of religious abilities. The idea is yes you can mount and dismount at will (with necessary restrictions ... maybe you need open space to dismount, so you can't just charge into a corridor then dismount and retreat behind the mount). While mounted you'd be fused into a single entity (how spriggan rider monsters work). When you dismount they'd be an 06:23:12 independent ally with their own attacks. Yes they'd need to level up of course. (In the "as a background" version, there can be a point where their usefulness does tail off anyway and we don't expect them to survive past that point ... there's an extra challenge to try and get a win with them still alive.) But "as a species", they need to be relevant all game. (Maybe: this species gets access to a special skill, which they can choose when to funnel XP 06:23:12 into to upgrade the mount) 06:31:54 <06mumra> (Bonus feature: your mount has an extra body armour slot which can be equipped with barding) 06:34:47 Lore-accurate elephant riding palentonga incoming 06:34:50 the dream 06:59:16 @mumra 06:59:17 I think this might work better as a god than as a species 06:59:17 Mumra, Lord of Beasts 06:59:18 : Passively map "beast" type monsters 06:59:18 *: Catch/Mount: Catches a weakened "beast" type monster, allowing you to mount it. Mounting "fuses" you together and gives bonuses depending on type of beast caught. Bonus ability "release" 06:59:19 if you want to catch a different type. 06:59:19 Let's take a spider for example. Your attacks have *bonus* venom brand. Stole this from an old evil Fedhas twin god 06:59:20 **: Your bond makes you more beast-like (maybe stealth+ for spider idk) 06:59:20 ***: Coordinated assault: You dismount and send out your pok�mon (which levels up like and revives like a Ru ghost) to fight alongside, losing your mounted bonuses. 06:59:21 If your pet attacks something, it becomes "marked". Your attacks against marked targets have extra acc and dmg. 06:59:21 ****: Your attacks have reach when mounted 06:59:22 *****: When your pok�mon is out you share some damage but that damage is reduced by 20% so it hopefully doesn't suck like injury bond 06:59:22 ******: Active ability when mounted on spider: Works like net but with long cooldown because nets are OP 06:59:23 Idk man I was bored 07:49:26 <06mumra> Some of the difficulties with this design are rather similar to this PR https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3996 You have to special handling for every kind of eligible monster throughout the whole game. Each monster no doubt needs tuning for their stats. Any additions of new monsters / monster abilities have to consider how they should interact with this god. A lot of monster abilities just aren't realistically usable by the player. It's 07:49:27 not to say such problems would be insurmountable (an accidental pun), but it makes the design very complex and adds maintenance burden. You also need to make sure you have eligible monsters everywhere in the game otherwise the god becomes completely useless in some branches (or, you end up with degenerate play like preserving certain strong monsters in certain branches so you can come back and mount them when your mount dies) 08:19:30 <04dracoomega> For what it's worth, I actually do think there's potential interest in a species who is based around having an ally 'attached' to them. I do agree that gods are a more common space for long-term allies, but that's actually a reason why I think it's more interesting as a species - we already have multiple gods doing adjacent things and this makes it easier to differentiate. (By being a species thing, you also can make it more 08:19:30 specific to them, without needing to worry about interactions with all sorts of dungeon denizens and so forth.) I think that trying to be too 'detailed' on mounting and mount interactions and raising your mount is probably not a great idea, but that there might be potential in a more simplified set of mechanics in that vein. Like, "Mounted state is default and conveys some number of perks. Taking significant damage can dismount you, causing you to 08:19:31 fight alongside your pet until you can heal or it dies, at which point you return to the mount state." Perhaps with the death of the creature needing some XP to come back (maybe.). I don't think encouraging people to fiddle too much about whether to mount or not to mount, via abilities, is likey to add enough to justify itself, on first impression. (Note that I don't think there's any reason this needs to dislodge spriggans, even if we're the one rider 08:19:31 currently in the game. That's more or less coincidence, and spriggans' mechanical identity is plenty distinct enough, imo.) 08:43:06 <08nicolae> i should probably submit these vaults i've had lying around, at some point 09:26:10 <06mumra> > I do agree that gods are a more common space for long-term allies, but that's actually a reason why I think it's more interesting as a species Yep exactly what I was thinking; and "single long-term ally" is specifically already covered by Hep. Simpler interactions probably for the best as well (although, I wonder how far you can simplify things . Was thinking its corpse can be revived by the player when no monsters are in LOS (maybe 09:26:10 with some cost?) 09:28:20 <09hellmonk> vaguely reminded of my plan to do a 2 tile species for april fool's day 09:37:37 <06mumra> (Back to this) It's worth a try. Was also wondering about Vertigo as an alternate effect that's already established as something caused by toxins but isn't widely used 12:36:00 <12ge0ff> Houston, we have a problem: webserver/webtiles/userdb.py uses the ''crypt'' module for working with passwords. But this module is deprecated since python 3.11 and removed in 3.13. 12:36:08 <12ge0ff> Python 3.13 was released 2024-10-07 and it recently landed in Archlinux. 12:36:13 <12ge0ff> There's PEP 594 that lists all deprecated/removed modules and possible replacements for them: https://peps.python.org/pep-0594/#deprecated-modules 12:37:39 <05icoson> rip 12:42:26 <05icoson> (I did take a look when that was first announced to be deprecated and it's going to be a huge pain, but there are some 3rd party packages that should work; short term py3.13 isn't supported) 12:48:46 <12ge0ff> It's not only crypt? Is 3.13 going to break something else too, e.g. tornado? 12:49:38 <05icoson> only crypt as far as I know, but webtiles with user accounts will be 100% broken 12:50:34 <05icoson> this is probably an opportunity to upgrade pw security, but then all the existing pw databases will need to be converted, on a version that has crypt 12:51:17 <06mumra> (Actually scratch that vertigo idea .. it's in the right threat level but I want something that synergises with them completely surrounding you. The reason I had flank at one stage was because the movement code is disinclined to properly surround you, even though they could in corridors, they won't go around to the far side to let more of their friends in. Maybe now they're out of Ufetubi depth range they could have flank back, or just 12:51:18 tweak the movement code so they'll close up gaps around you. They don't necessarily need anythnig else when 8 of them can attack at once) 12:52:38 <12ge0ff> can't we just use legacycrypt or something else that implements exactly the same algorithm as old crypt.crypt? 12:52:50 <05icoson> yeah possible, also it may be possible to directly call crypt using ctypes 12:53:27 <05icoson> (that's what legacycrypt appears to do anyway, but that particular package hasn't seen any attention in a while) 15:03:53 emclar (L21 NaFE) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 2298: Unknown monster spell 'Pyrrhic Recollection' cast by Nobody (Depths:1) 15:06:20 emclar (L21 NaFE) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 2298: Unknown monster spell 'Pyrrhic Recollection' cast by Nobody (Depths:1) 15:30:56 <06mumra> Somehow still trying to cast it even though spell weight is 0 15:33:28 &versions 15:34:51 wrong command 15:34:56 07DracoOmega02 * 0.33-a0-993-g58097cfb87: Don't let monsters sometimes cast spells with 0 cast rate 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/58097cfb8701 15:34:56 %git 58097cfb 15:34:58 90s limit exceeded: killed &versions 15:35:14 I think that came too late for its last rebuild 15:35:25 oh, sequell still being slow 15:35:56 !lm emclar x=cv 15:35:57 1745. [2025-02-24 22:06:11] [cv=0.33-a] emclar the Bludgeoner (L21 NaFE of Dithmenos) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 2298: Unknown monster spell 'Pyrrhic Recollection' cast by Nobody (Depths:1) 15:36:06 !lm emclar x=vlong 15:36:07 1745. [2025-02-24 22:06:11] [vlong=0.33-a0-1003-ge20181a0a6] emclar the Bludgeoner (L21 NaFE of Dithmenos) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 2298: Unknown monster spell 'Pyrrhic Recollection' cast by Nobody (Depths:1) 15:36:23 no, looks like it should have it 15:45:42 <06mumra> Yeah it came immediately after the commit that added Nobody 15:46:16 <06mumra> Would be incredibly unlikely for a build to have triggered in between those commits 15:58:07 <06mumra> !crashlog emclar 15:58:09 <04Cerebot> 3. emclar, XL21 NaFE, T:67465 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/emclar/crash-emclar-20250224-220611.txt 15:58:37 <06mumra> oh interesting 15:58:50 <06mumra> stack trace indicates this happened during marionette casting 16:02:24 <06mumra> probably _setup_simple_mons_cast needs to also veto the spell if it's 0 weight 16:06:50 <06mumra> (it's not even when it's casting, it's just checking if there are any viable marionette spells) 16:15:48 <06mumra> simple fix is actually to add the spell to valid_marionette_spell, it wouldn't ever make sense as one (but probably marionette should also know to ignore slots with frequency 0, it's just quite a lot more changes to implement that) 16:25:11 <06mumra> of course the recalled spell should be a valid marionette target, but with the above fixed it would then cache 0 for available spells on Nobody, and i don't know if that cache is reset when the spells list changes 16:51:04 03mumra02 07* 0.33-a0-1004-ga8ad765c7d: Don't let Pyrrhic Recollection be used by marionette 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8ad765c7d1e 18:35:28 tallbingo (L27 DrWn) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 53) (Zig:22) 18:40:28 <04dracoomega> Your +0 pair of gloves "Raesk" {rC+ Int-2 Dex+5 Slay+3}, +2 pair of boots of the Dwarven Hall {rCorr Str+2 Int+5}, +0 cloak "Tukkaf" {Regen+ SInv Stlth+}, +3 crown of vainglory {Majesty Ring++ ^Fragile Will+}, ring of Adosh {^Drain Will+ Str-3 Dex+6 Slay+4} and !bad item (cl:100,ty:0,pl:0,pl2:0,sp:0,qu:0) meld into your body. Hrmm.... 19:12:58 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-1005-ge7142aa715: Fix a crash with melding Vainglory (tallbingo) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e7142aa71540 19:13:20 <04dracoomega> Incidentally, I have the bulk of form yamlification done now, I think. (Just need to actually convert the existing form data into yaml) 19:13:41 <04dracoomega> I am fairly sure there are just few enough of them that it's quicker to do it manually than write a parser to convert them ^^; 19:14:04 <04dracoomega> Since this should be a one-time thing 19:44:05 <06pleasingfungus> sounds right 23:35:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1005-ge7142aa715 (34) 23:57:40 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-1005-ge7142aa715