00:33:52 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-776-g802b72d441 (34) 00:55:18 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-776-g802b72d441 01:35:21 <08wormsofcan> should zonguldrok have special messaging if the player is wearing a hat, zonguldrok is not, and the player rolls a mutation that removes the hat 01:35:27 <08wormsofcan> "I call dibs!" 02:26:39 Or, "you are unworthy, give it to me!!" 03:42:53 -!- Changesite1 is now known as Changesite 03:47:40 -!- Changesite1 is now known as Changesite 04:34:46 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5261-gd9800d219b 05:17:44 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-776-g802b72d (34) 10:10:24 <08nicolae> DRACO, THEN: "oh, i should add cosmetic messages for putting hats on zonguldruk, that'll be cute" DRACO, SOON, AFTER BEING ASKED TO IMPLEMENT A HAT-BASED CONVERSATION BOT: 10:15:35 <09gammafunk> what a dramatic story arc we've seen over the years for Zonguldruk the wizlab wizard 10:25:42 -!- wantyapps is now known as mlu 10:25:49 -!- mlu is now known as wantyapps 14:24:12 Anyone got time to look at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4254? Think it'll fix that overlay overflow bug from the other day 15:44:33 RE: TAG_MAJOR_VERSION and vampires discussion from dcss discord channel... 15:44:46 I almost wonder if it'd be easier to make it all runtime 15:44:52 instead of having to have 2 builds 15:45:11 Guess that doesn't handle things like art-data.txt as is 15:47:48 or if still doing compile time, via if constexpr or similar 15:48:23 enums would need to be explicitly numbered instead of ifdef'd, I think 15:48:50 And it'd make hard to ever get rid of enum variants? 15:50:04 <04dracoomega> The TAG_MAJOR_VERSION stuff (at least as far as I see it) has two main benefits: -It makes it extremely explicit what stuff is deprecated, to anyone familiar with Crawl who reads the code -It (theoretically) makes actually removing it if we ever break save compat much faster. (Yes, some stuff will surely still break, but a massive chunk of it can be immediately removed mostly automatically.) 15:50:04 idk, just spitballing 15:50:51 Fair, is better tooling for removing ifdefs than arbitrary if statements 15:50:59 <04dracoomega> (Vampire just annoys me more than most here because actually trying to preserve its current functionality involves actually adding a bunch more lines in more places - potentially more confusing since vampire form will also exist which will use some similar mechanics in several ways, but also not actually the same one) 15:51:24 <04dracoomega> Like, if we remove monsters, there's no effort to preserve what they do. They're just dummied out, which is quick and simple. 15:51:37 I mean it's totally doable with clang analysis tooling but more well worn ground for ifdefs 15:51:41 Fair 15:51:57 <04dracoomega> And mostly I keep arguing with myself how important it really is to keep playable vampires as opposed to making them human vampires or something ^^; 15:52:17 Is there a general direction towards all species special behavior being modeled as mutations? 15:52:46 <04dracoomega> Like, "How much cruft do we want to keep around the codebase - including multiple batform abilities - just for the few stragglers who happened to be playing vampires in trunk, the week I push this." ^^; 15:52:55 Because just reporting 0 for the mutation really does seem like a clean solution to me 15:53:04 Ah, well there's another idea for you 15:53:28 remove vampires from the selection page a few weeks beforehand? 15:53:35 <04dracoomega> Well, the point is that the vampire-specific mutation enum wouldn't exist past TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 15:53:50 Fair 15:54:28 <04dracoomega> In past, some complex species really were completely removed, so it's not exactly without precedent. But we haven't done it in a while, I think. (I mean, ogres stopped existing to become oni, but oni are really just ogre+) 15:54:46 <04dracoomega> Poltergeist has some mechanical and thematic overlap, but is very, very much not vampire+ 15:55:31 ARmchair developing, but I'd be tempted to effectively punt full removal an extra version 15:55:40 <04dracoomega> (A lot of removed species had very little to preserve, of course, since a bunch of them were simple) 15:55:50 remove ability to create new, but gate removal of the mutaiton and species on TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 35 15:55:59 Give folksa full version to finish their vampire run 15:56:00 <04dracoomega> Centaurs are mostly just apts and common mutations that continue to exist 15:56:15 But doesn't fix the what about the conditionals problem 15:56:33 <04dracoomega> (To be clear, I am not chafing at the time to fully preserve vampires while deprecating them. Just the mess :P) 15:57:08 Right, the question is, "is doing it the normal way/ fully removing the mutation at the same time" worth the mess 15:59:26 It doesn't look all that bad 16:01:07 Most of the compound conditionals seem to be &&'s where the whole thing becomes dead with MUT_VAMPIRISM anyway 16:02:37 And some of these, like the example you gave earlier, I don't think would be the end of the world if you just simplified early 16:02:42 e.g. 16:02:44 return make_stringf("a %sbat.", you.has_mutation(MUT_VAMPIRISM) ? "vampire " : ""); 16:03:02 if you just simplify that to return "a bat.", does that matter for the few players on trunk playing vampires that week? 16:03:27 <04dracoomega> Okay, that is fair 16:10:31 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4224 * 0.33-a0-777-g7342a18472: fix: enum related cleanups 10(8 days ago, 11 files, 175+ 179-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7342a18472b3 16:17:03 I just rebased the above to not conflict with your recent 16:17:28 I just rebased the above to not conflict with your recent PR that changed viewmap_flash_colour @dracoomega :) (sorry, keyboard acted up mid sentence) 16:27:33 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4254 * 0.33-a0-777-g473af07fde: fix: overflow of overlays with Qazlal's Disaster area (prawnwizard) 10(24 hours ago, 7 files, 160+ 91-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/473af07fde0a 16:32:52 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4254 * 0.33-a0-777-ga66da414ff: fix: overflow of overlays with Qazlal's Disaster area (prawnwizard) 10(25 hours ago, 7 files, 161+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a66da414fffe 16:39:16 03Cgettys02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4254 * 0.33-a0-777-g5f6f24eb31: fix: overflow of overlays with Qazlal's Disaster area (prawnwizard) 10(25 hours ago, 7 files, 160+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f6f24eb3185 16:41:43 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-776-g802b72d441 (34) 19:03:05 03dolorous02 07* 0.33-a0-777-g1cbb7ff58e: Make Sprint check for mutations, not species. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1cbb7ff58ee1 20:56:43 <03implojin> re: cruft when doing tags things, my opinion is err on the side of doing code cleanup while you're at it, save upgrades have always been "best effort" and if best effort includes turning someone's trunk game into a human that's probably okay 20:57:15 <03implojin> (others may have different takes ofc) 20:58:45 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I keep wavering back and forth. ("I removed a thing! +120/-50" >.>) (Did you realize that bloodless vampire fangs heal you based on the fang aux damage for normal attacks, but you heal based on the full stab damage for stabs? I'm pretty sure that's how this code reads, anyway.) 20:59:07 <04dracoomega> I'm not sure there's a single place in or out of game that actually says this 21:02:26 <09hellmonk> I did know that 21:02:57 <09hellmonk> it was funny tech for bloodless stabbers back in old crawl when they had 6 or 7 barely distinguishable blood states 21:03:12 <04dracoomega> I mean, I guess it matters way, way more when you can't actually heal normally 21:03:55 <04dracoomega> (Would still be useful mid-combat tech for some kinds of stabs, even now, but you're obviously usually full when your just stealth stabbing people) 21:06:31 <04dracoomega> I guess meteorans and even deep dwarves have a moderate amount of specific code that was preserved when they were removed, though I am fairly sure it's still a decent bit less. 21:07:26 <04dracoomega> (Like, I already have a bunch of it ifdef'd already now, so it's less about 'effort' and 'What do we think would be best?' ^^;) 21:20:27 <03implojin> imo the thing to remember here is everything you put behind a tag is going to be immortalized forever because we're realistically not likely to upgrade TAG_MAJOR so, personally, i'd cleanup as much of it as you can get away with 21:29:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, "how much I can get away with" is pretty much squarely a matter of how acceptable we collectively think it is to: a) Force the player into some different species on save upgrade or b) Allow them to continue being vampires that are mostly just a bag of undead resists and apts, without any special abilities or behaviors 21:31:21 <04dracoomega> (Honestly, I would be personally fine doing either of these. We don't keep old spells around when we overhaul/replace them, after all. We just give the player the new one >.>) 21:31:41 <04dracoomega> But most species removed in the last many years were preserved basically intact, as far as I can see 21:34:59 <03implojin> yeah, past active devs probably had their own takes 21:36:00 <03implojin> imo it's probably fine to force species change to human on upgrade (just repeating this from the other discord) 21:38:04 <04dracoomega> (I certainly don't look forward to us having two different 'transform into a bat' abilities when I get to vampire talisman, either >.>; ) 21:43:09 <04dracoomega> (It seems a great way to confuse other people looking at the code later on - or even myself :P) 21:45:24 <06dolorous_84348> I've been out of the loop for awhile, but is the new species current vampires are going to be replaced with still poltergeists, with their ability to wear a bunch of armor to make up for their otherwise not having bodies? 21:46:45 <06dolorous_84348> If so, on the one hand, it's still undead, so option (a) would fit, but its handling of equipment is different enough that shuffling it around might make things overly complex, so (b) would be easier. 21:46:55 <06dolorous_84348> My two cents, anyway. 21:47:11 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I'm working on poltergeists this very moment, in fact 21:47:20 <06dolorous_84348> Ah. Good luck with them 🙂 21:47:40 <04dracoomega> (Have been doing so for the past few days, now) 21:48:23 <04dracoomega> Currently trying to figure out how an aux attack is causing noise at (0,0) 😛 21:48:35 <04dracoomega> (It's a very weird aux, but even so) 21:48:45 <06dolorous_84348> Coolness. 21:48:58 <06dolorous_84348> (Not the aux issue, but the other stuff.) 23:35:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-777-g1cbb7ff58e (34) 23:58:08 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-777-g1cbb7ff58e