00:26:27 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-605-gc3d0ca870a (34) 00:55:23 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-605-gc3d0ca870a 04:33:09 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5249-g4a8afe7061 05:22:34 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-605-gc3d0ca8 (34) 07:19:40 <06wensley> I'm not sure that I'd call monstrous unpopular exactly, given the number of demonspawn that get scummed for the sake of getting it. Maybe it's bimodal popularity 😛 10:20:45 <08nicolae> i'm putting that in imo 13:36:26 <04dracoomega> Really? I've only ever heard of people quitting immediately (or threatening to quit) when they get it. (And often grumbling a bunch, even if they don't). Don't think I've ever heard of anyone scumming for it. 15:24:42 <09hellmonk> I imagine at least one person has done this ever, but yeah I have mostly heard the opposite 16:26:45 <09gammafunk> monstrous doesn't generate a milestone, does it? 16:27:05 <09gammafunk> would be sort of nice if certain random innate mutation things like that did 16:27:18 <04dracoomega> It looks like it's suppsoed to 16:27:26 <09gammafunk> hrm, what's the verb? 16:27:38 <04dracoomega> 'monstrous 16:27:48 <09gammafunk> !lm * verb=monstrous 16:27:51 <04Cerebot> 165743. [2024-12-27 20:54:32] diminuendo the Trooper (L2 DsGl) discovered their monstrous ancestry! (D:1) 16:27:58 <09gammafunk> ... 16:28:04 <09gammafunk> it can manifest that early? 16:28:10 <09gammafunk> guess I didn't realize 16:28:21 <04dracoomega> The first time you get a body slot mutation (which is also weighted to be early) 16:28:36 <04dracoomega> !lm * recent verb=monstrous s=xl 16:28:38 <09gammafunk> !lm * verb=monstrous recent / boring 16:29:15 <04Cerebot> 14449 milestones for * (recent verb=monstrous): 11130x 2, 1867x 3, 888x 4, 359x 5, 137x 6, 47x 7, 14x 8, 6x 9, 10 16:29:33 <04Cerebot> 4055/14449 milestones for * (verb=monstrous recent): N=4055/14449 (28.06%) 16:29:35 <04dracoomega> Huh, not just possible at XL 2, but overwhelmingly likely 16:29:39 <09gammafunk> heh 16:29:47 <09gammafunk> and 28% being quits does seem a bit high 16:29:50 <04dracoomega> Yeah 16:31:21 <04dracoomega> Knowing you're going to be losing cool gear that you could otherwise have is something a lot of people find unfun, and I think it's plausible that also being able to use other cool gear that you ordinarily couldn't might maybe offset that somewhat, while still feel thematically related? It's a possibility, anyway. 16:31:48 <09gammafunk> yeah, I'd tend to agree 16:33:05 <09gammafunk> for other slot-limiting species you set out to live with those limitations; randomly rolling a mutation that removes a bunch of choices is tricky to get right 16:40:46 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-605-gc3d0ca870a (34) 17:15:04 <06wensley> I mean, I agree that most people who quit are doing it because they don't want monstrous, but there's definitely people who set out to do UC/shapeshifters who see monstrous as a strong benefit 17:16:13 <06wensley> as inelegant as it seems, it might warrant the same sort of treatment that we give to fighters, where we let you pick your weapon before the game begins. a menu that pops up like, uh, you want monstrous maybe? 17:17:04 <04dracoomega> That feels very against the spirit of demonspawn to me 17:17:29 <09hellmonk> would be better to spin it out as a separate species in that case imo 17:17:37 <09hellmonk> (this has been suggested before a long time ago) 17:17:48 <06wensley> I agree that the spirit of demonspawn is "randomness", but monstrous sits in a very weird place where it's both relatively common and extremely run-defining 17:17:48 <04dracoomega> (Like, you're never going to 'fix' the idea that people sometimes want specific mutations and aren't going to get them, no matter how we slice what mutations exist or how they are handed out) 17:18:10 <06wensley> note that this isn't about getting rid of the randomness of Ds in general. that's a great aspect of the species. 17:18:31 <09hellmonk> depending on how the slot rework ends up going, a species that gets random 'slot facets' at xl 3,7,11 could be distinct enough to be its own thing maybe 17:18:36 <06wensley> but, like, clearly we don't randomize fighter starting weapons for basically the same reason. 17:19:27 <04dracoomega> It's... possible, I suppose? Like, obviously there will be more you can do there than you can do now, but I'm not entirely sure there's entirely enough there for a whole species on its own? (Especially when one assumes that demonspawn would still keep the one body facet every run) 17:19:52 <04dracoomega> Now if we want to work something else into that at the same time, that might be possible, I guess 17:20:26 <09hellmonk> yeah, it would need something else as well I think 17:20:51 <09hellmonk> I believe the reason it never happened historically is that slot muts on their own are not enough to carry a species 17:21:01 <04dracoomega> Yeah 17:21:22 <04dracoomega> (Even vine stalkers, who have the most powerful and prominant aux in the game have a bunch more things than just that) 17:23:09 <06wensley> https://tenor.com/view/type-typing-angry-octopus-anime-gif-19407326 17:24:14 <04dracoomega> I mean, '8 rings' are a lot more than '-4 aux armour, but you get some aux attacks' (and even octopodes still have their multi-constriction thing going on) 17:28:06 <04dracoomega> Vaguely reminded of that species concept discussed vaguely maybe 6 months back with a sort of 'super mode' you regularly built up and used every now and again. (Maybe just because there were some concepts of it being sort of 'animal chimera'-esque in flavor) Imagining the exact effect of this mode depending on what body mutations you had (sort of like supercharging each of whatever they were). Would need some less plain body 17:28:06 mutations for them, though, imo 17:30:11 <04dracoomega> (Incidentally, it is entirely possible now to have a barding slot separate of boot slots :P) 17:30:41 <04dracoomega> So something could theoretically have both 17:35:21 <08nicolae> what kinda feed do armataurs got 17:36:48 <04dracoomega> I mean, they actually have hooves, don't they? 18:35:13 <08nicolae> hmmm, true 18:35:26 <08nicolae> so what we need is a species with regular feet but also a huge ass 20:06:19 <12ebering> thicc (crawl species) is a wikipedia article we could induce 20:09:21 <09gammafunk> I have regular feet and am a huge ass, AMA 20:39:30 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 20:39:30 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 21:18:22 <06pleasingfungus> isn't 'monstrous demonspawn as a species' just troll 21:22:24 <04dracoomega> Well, I mean, I assume that if we were to ever do a species in that vein, it would be deliberately trying to be extra-weird about it. And not just 'bad at wearing things, but hit hard' 21:23:29 <04dracoomega> "You have 3 faces, one giant crab claw, and are walking around on enormous cilia" 21:23:32 <06pleasingfungus> perhaps an extra weird version of monstrous demonspawn would be more liked than the current one? 21:27:05 <04dracoomega> Seems reasonable to assume it could be. (Though I do think there's maybe a certain concern that if an entire suite of modifiers are themselves only a 1 in 10 chance to have access to on a given demonspawn run (which, itself, will only see a subset of them) that it might be better off as a separate species concept.) 21:28:39 <04dracoomega> Index brought up Nightstalker in the context of this conversation earlier, and is sort of interesting how that worked out for the better as reliably belonging to a species instead of its old position where a bunch of people were actively unhappy to roll it. Not a directly parallel example, but it has some similarities 21:29:46 <04dracoomega> I guess in short, I'm like "Making monstrous demonspawn slightly more interesting" might work fine in the context of their current placement, but the more specific stuff they get outside of demonspawn in general, the more it makes sense for them to be their own thing, maybe? 21:30:38 <06pleasingfungus> i'm fine with it 21:31:12 <06pleasingfungus> especially since folx (eg hellmonk) got a bunch of interesting stuff for ds that's not monstrous 21:31:20 <06pleasingfungus> makes losing random slot facets less sad 21:40:44 <08nicolae> ah, qud soup 21:40:54 <04dracoomega> Haha 21:42:08 <08nicolae> apparently the 1.0 version has a much improved interface and tutorial and options from when i last gave it a shot a while ago, maybe i should give it a try soonish 21:42:23 <08nicolae> i did also get gifted some games this christmas also, so maybe i should also do those 21:42:33 <08nicolae> OR i could just keep doing balatro until my eyeballs fall out of my head 21:43:58 <04dracoomega> That won't let you equip secondary eyeballs in that slot, just so you know 21:46:53 <08nicolae> well i can't put this one back in either so i guess i'm just gonna be .) for a while 21:47:27 <04dracoomega> I am finally getting to form interactions with the new equipment system today 21:47:55 <04dracoomega> Mildly gratified to see Lear's melding when it ought to, with no Lear's-specific code involved ^^; 21:53:18 <06pleasingfungus> w o w 21:53:42 <06pleasingfungus> i would feel more than mildly gratified about that 😛 21:55:09 <04dracoomega> It (and two-handed weapons) now internally takes up the extra slots they spill over into, so things that affect those slots will naturally see them properly 21:55:50 <04dracoomega> So all Lear's needs, in theory, is a single line of code saying which slots it takes up. 21:56:16 <04dracoomega> (Not all Lear's code is removed yet, but that's mostly just having not gotten to the last of it) 21:57:20 <04dracoomega> What I am more gratified by is that this enormous diff is considerably net negative at the same time that it's adding multiple features ^^; 21:57:42 <08nicolae> how easy is it to make a new unrand that takes up multiple slots, he said, asking for a friend, 21:57:48 <04dracoomega> Very 21:58:04 <04dracoomega> (Again, basically 'one line of code to say what slots it takes up') 21:58:24 <08nicolae> baller. time to make gloves that are also rings and also half a boots 21:58:33 <04dracoomega> Okay, you can't be half a boot 😛 21:58:54 <04dracoomega> I guess you currently can't take up multiple ring slots at once either 21:59:04 <04dracoomega> (Multiple of any of the same type of slot) 21:59:48 <08nicolae> pffft, who are you, tj "henry" yoshi 22:00:09 <08nicolae> that's probably for the best, really 22:00:45 <08nicolae> so is there anything besides lear's that takes up multislots at the moment? 22:00:49 <08nicolae> oh, you said two-handers, nvm 22:03:54 <06regret-⸸nde※> Pondering some sort of... cloaker-style living (or at least possessed) hooded cloak unrand, that takes up both a hat and cloak slot but also is coordinated enough to also fit an extra pair of gloves on the ends of it. 22:04:39 <08nicolae> hat and boots unrand. how does it work? don't worry about it. 22:05:02 <08nicolae> it's got wires running between them. it's some kind of electrical doodad. got connections at both ends of ya. 22:05:12 <06regret-⸸nde※> (c.f. something like https://wikimon.net/images/8/8f/Vamdemonx.jpg) 22:05:32 <08nicolae> what about... vampire rogue 22:06:05 <08nicolae> or vogue for short