00:14:43 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-454-ge3c942dec9 (34) 04:32:09 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5249-g4a8afe7061 09:22:26 <06mumra> So many new spells 09:43:38 -!- Discord|5 is now known as Discord| 11:12:34 <06wensley> curiously small floor generation https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/1gwd23r/weirdly_small_dungeon_floor_on_0320/ 11:19:30 they happen occasionally 11:20:17 (also there's weird split floors occasionally) 11:29:26 <06wensley> if by split floors you mean floors where some portions are only reachable from a lower floor, those are at least fun and interesting (rip old orcish mines). but having a floor that's this small isn't really interesting by itself (unless it has the same number of monsters as a regular floor, which would be fun) 11:39:15 iirc it's just a very rare possibility 11:48:44 03Implojin02 07* 0.33-a0-455-g5fac02aaea: Revert "Fix slime not showing around slime walls after reload" 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5fac02aaea41 11:53:39 04Build failed for 08master @ 5fac02aa 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/11959692438 11:58:28 <04dracoomega> Oh dear =/ 11:58:51 <04dracoomega> I actually played quite a substantial amount of actual normal game since that commit, so I suspect that unfortunately that is also webtiles-specific -.- 11:59:05 <03implojin> no, i tested it in tiles also 11:59:12 <04dracoomega> Well, it definitely never happened to me 11:59:15 <04dracoomega> Somehow?? 11:59:56 <03implojin> it happened immediately to me upon building local tiles, entering a game that had explored to D:3 or so, pressing shift+x [ 12:00:58 <03implojin> (it also happened in webtiles) 12:01:59 <04dracoomega> Huh. I just tested it myself now, and while it didn't happen most of the time I did it, it did happen sometimes >.> 12:02:18 <04dracoomega> I wonder what the inconsistency is? 12:02:51 <04dracoomega> (Though on reflection, I had actually forgotten that level peeking is a situation where a level is loaded without actually moving the player there, which could explain it not working properly) 12:03:10 <04dracoomega> I apologize T.T 12:03:12 <03implojin> i'm not really that worried about this tbh since it's probably just graphical but thought the revert was called for in case it could be trashing saves somehow through tags things 12:05:54 <04dracoomega> I'd say 'Isn't it just a change to loading not saving?' but I've evidently been wrong on this very thing before, so I shall claim nothing 12:06:20 <04dracoomega> Especially on probably-less-than-4-hours of sleep >.> 12:06:38 <08nicolae> get some sleep! 12:07:05 <08nicolae> it is important to sleep, for some reason 12:07:26 <08nicolae> i do appreciate all the stuff you do for crawl, i mean, like, Damn 12:07:35 <08nicolae> but also: you gotta sleep 12:08:19 <04dracoomega> Look, this is not me opting to sleep poorly 12:08:39 <04dracoomega> I'd happily be in bed right now if it would actually help 12:08:47 <08nicolae> is it the insomnias 12:09:01 <04dracoomega> Probably it counts, at least mildly 12:09:04 <08nicolae> ugh 12:09:27 <04dracoomega> I feel like I've gotten 1 solid night of sleep out of the last, like, 12:09:29 <04dracoomega> 7 12:09:54 <08nicolae> okay, i've used my dev powers to deploy the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup Special Ops Black Helicopters, within an hour there will be a spriggan enchanter at your location ready to cast Ensorcelled Hibernation 12:11:14 <08nicolae> to increase the odds of a successful Snooze Deployment, please try to read a scroll of vulnerability just before the chopper arrives 12:11:50 <04dracoomega> Oh, don't worry, I think I have that status most of the time 12:15:20 <04dracoomega> I implemented a proposed revamp to piledriver last night, in an attempt to fix some things I still consider troubled points about the spell, but liked the resulting thing even less such that I spent like the next 3 hours debating what to try instead ^^; 12:16:39 <08nicolae> what do you consider troubled about it currently? 12:17:15 <08nicolae> note: i don't think i've actually tried it myself, i haven't played much crawl since it went in, due to Reasons 😭 (i did get back on to try forgewrights though, v. neat) 12:22:21 <04dracoomega> There's a handful of things, of different degrees of severity, imo. Like, I do feel that it gave warpers a meaningfully greater incentive to train translocations early instead of ignoring it (which multiple experienced players have agreed with, over time), and I've seen a number of people in other places comment that they find the sort of positioning setup involved with it fun and satisfying. However, using it still is more risky 12:22:22 than the average tool of its level, on a character that already has a more troubled time getting to where it's castable. In and of itself, that's not too bad, but some specific things I wish were not the case include how it's completely unusable if there are two monsters in a row with each other. It's not uncommon to back up or move so that you can line up one monster in a group against a wall, only to have another monster file in behind it during 12:22:22 this time, making it completely useless against either of the. (Exacerbated by how monsters in Crawl deliberately try to line up in compass directions over time.) This wouldn't be so bad if a warper who had gotten this spell early had other options, but largely they don't at present. 12:23:53 <04dracoomega> (There are some other smaller issues with how you want to maximize travel distance, but 'overshooting' by miscounting and backing up one space too far means that you can no longer use it against that monster at all without finding some other place to do it. 12:24:53 <04dracoomega> I toyed with the idea of it letting you launch multiple connected-in-a-row enemies together to eliminate the first big problem I mention here, but I think that's actually a difficult can of worms, since the number of connected things can be arbitrarily long and even theoretically extend out of LoS 12:29:21 <04dracoomega> (The rework I tried locally yesterday - and had discussed in #dcss before - was essentially making it work backwards. Grab a thing and piledrive it behind you, flipping the orientation of the two of you in the process. Which does 'fix' a bunch of the specific issues with the current spell, but in the end I liked it even less.) 12:46:23 <08nicolae> implement some newton's cradle physics. if you piledrive the first monster in a line, the kinetic energy transfers to the last one and it goes shooting into the wall instead. this is a joke unless it's feasible in which case it's not 12:48:35 <04dracoomega> It sort of is, but like... piledriver innately moves both the player and its target. You could theoretically move just the thing at the end of the line, but I don't want it to launch just the monster if there's only the two of you. And in theory, sometimes the monster in the line that you're launching wouldn't even be in LoS when you do it. (I guess it could be limited to lines short enough to fit into LoS) But mostly, I am 12:48:36 concerned about it having essentially two completely different behaviors depending on how monsters are lined up together or not 12:48:48 <04dracoomega> The code to actually move a thing at the end of a line wouldn't itself be that hard 12:51:38 <04dracoomega> (Really, some of the issue isn't piledriver itself so much as a warper who has trained piledriver directly having nothing else for real damage besides their quite underwhelming melee, which places a lot more pressure on that spell in more situations) 12:53:07 <04dracoomega> There was some talk about giving them a couple starting charges of wand of warping instead of dispersal darts, and I don't actually think that's unreasonable, but I've been considering doing something to dispersal darts themselves instead. I think nobody is ever truly happy to use them, even on the background that starts with them. 12:55:31 <08nicolae> what if it just grabs a guy and flies with them in a random direction that still slams them into something. 12:55:52 <08nicolae> i guess that's just random blink with extra steps 13:34:11 -!- Atheris is now known as Arachnite 13:35:04 Hello! Might there be a dev here who could answer a (probably stupid) question about adding new species to crawl? 13:39:53 <04dracoomega> Probably not stupid! And if you're asking why the species tile isn't showing up properly in the new game menu, it's possible the separated composited tile used for that specific purpose. Take a look at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9c8e3d14ebb0c19b02d2dc23197f0d9e97d7e849 for example (and look at dc-gui.txt as well as tilepick.cc and tilepick-p.cc ) 13:41:01 Will do, thank you! 13:44:35 That does seem a tad more complicated than species_creation.md made it seem! :) 13:45:50 <03implojin> would gladly accept any patches to the documentation that improve areas it's lacking 13:46:37 Uh, maybe once I actually know what I am doing! ;) 13:46:46 <04dracoomega> A lot of documentation is quite old, and it possibly not at all clear to someone less familiar what parts are wildly outdated or not 13:46:48 <03implojin> (also happy to help troubleshoot this to get to that point) 13:47:16 <04dracoomega> (Some bits do get updated every now and again, so it's not even consistently old :P) 13:49:30 But jsut to be clear, creating sprites, a new species.yaml and editing species-type-header.txt is not enough right? I edited dc-gui.txt now I'll look at the otehr mentioned files 13:49:57 <04dracoomega> That commit I linked should have a complete list of things used recently, in-practice, to add a new species 13:50:17 <04dracoomega> (Obviously some of them are mountain-dwarf-specific, but the general infrastructure should all be there) 13:50:24 Awesome, thanks 13:50:26 <03implojin> it sounds like you may be missing the part in dc-gui.txt that tells the game to use your sprite 13:50:39 <03implojin> would be easier to diagnose with a link to your code 13:51:09 <03implojin> (i don't see this in species-creation.md, so this seems like an issue with our docs for sure) 13:51:52 Yeah I think I am getting it right now, if I don't I'll post the code. The commit link is great, since I also want to create some mutations 13:51:57 Thanks 13:52:31 <04dracoomega> Honestly, good advice in Crawl dev in general is that if you want to do a thing, see if you can find a commit doing a very similar thing in past 13:53:16 <04dracoomega> (Alas, this isn't gauranteed to tell you all you need to know, since sometimes initial commits for things forgot some part that was only added later, but it's often a good starting point when you're unsure.) 13:53:27 Oh yes, one wqquestion, why is "MONS_[SPECIES]" in the [species].yaml file? Whats is the monster species? 13:54:00 <04dracoomega> I believe it affects the glyph shown in console in some situations (and maybe a couple other niche things) 13:54:19 <04dracoomega> But in general, we have a 'dummy' monster for every player species 13:54:20 <03implojin> iirc that's primarily used to determine the "monster" version of the species for some vaults 13:54:31 ah ok I just put in MONS_JELLY since that already exists 13:54:48 and I am making ajello species 13:54:58 <04dracoomega> (Some species have what is basically a 'normal' monster that spawns normally, such as kobolds, but some like barachi have vanilla monsters used only in decorative vaults) 13:55:53 ah I see 13:56:09 What does TILEP_MONS_PLAYER_SHADOW_NAGA do? 13:57:39 <03implojin> sounds like that's dith's shadow mimic tile for nagas 13:59:08 ah so not relevant to my problem right now 14:00:37 <03implojin> (if you git grep -ni "TILEP_MONS_PLAYER_SHADOW_NAGA" for this, you can see that it's used in tilepick.cc, and from there you can see that tileidx_player_shadow is called over in god-abil.cc, which confirms that yeah, that's used to change dith's shadow appearance 14:01:24 I think that goes a bit too deep for me for now ;) 14:02:21 <03implojin> sure 🙂 14:11:06 Done with editing, wish me luck compiling! ;) 14:12:50 I wish I could get this running on my server, but I haven't figured out how to actually get my git to get pulled and compiled within dcss-server 14:14:43 <03implojin> good luck! 14:20:53 There are 33 TILEP_BASE_NAGA_XX is that how many variations of sprites there are? because others have a lot less 14:23:34 Ah yes I can see in the tile-player.html 14:24:39 <03implojin> you don't actually need to create a ton of variant tiles, see e.g. troll_f.png and troll_m.png 14:26:49 I made four colors of male and female jellos 14:26:56 jsut to try 14:27:00 just 14:29:07 Hmm, if my tiledef-player.cc looks like this: 14:29:49 nevermind can't copy 14:30:00 rltiles/tiledef-player.cc:21029:1: error: could not convert ‘()’ from ‘’ to ‘tile_info’ 14:30:22 I guess I missed some bracket or soemthing somewhere? 14:39:30 Nevermind I think thats because the make didn't go through before 14:47:35 Wee, it worked 14:47:49 well kinda 14:47:57 in game the jellos have feet 14:48:03 hmm 14:50:40 Oh, well a problem for tomorrow, good night! 16:39:01 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-455-g5fac02aaea (34) 17:17:14 03William S.02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4102 * 0.33-a0-460-g32703b7c83: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(11 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32703b7c8324 18:56:02 03William S.02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4102 * 0.33-a0-461-gef54f6711a: Improved bee sprites 10(19 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef54f6711ad4 19:27:19 -!- Discord|6 is now known as Discord| 20:31:44 -!- MakMorn_ is now known as MakMorn 20:38:57 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 20:38:57 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! 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