00:13:57 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-322-g559d583a2e (34) 00:54:58 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-322-g559d583a2e 01:03:20 <04dracoomega> Well, after rebasing and squashing for 2.5 hours straight, I'm down to ~52 commits and caught up with master 01:04:44 <04dracoomega> (Still a lot of commit messages to write, and one or two small things to fix, so I won't be pushing until tomorrow, but it probably be too long after I'm up tomorrow ^^; ) 01:14:59 Stable (0.32) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32.1-4-gec8d4c38a4 05:02:08 Stable (0.32) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32.1-4-gec8d4c3 05:10:22 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.33-a0-322-g559d583 (34) 14:13:54 03Implojin02 07* 0.33-a0-323-g1838bd627c: Fix crystallizing bolt fragility ordering (Flugkiller, Ge0ff) 10(34 minutes ago, 4 files, 16+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1838bd627ca0 14:42:07 Hi. Does anyone know if bad things would happen if the removed misc things (like the various decks) were added to the removed_items list? 14:47:39 <03implojin> @r-i or DO: should crystallizing bolt have a 3/4 chance when cast on monsters to match the increased chance on players? looks like this might have been overlooked before 14:50:27 03gammafunk02 07* 0.33-a0-324-g0b821916ea: A clua function to examine traps 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 28+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b821916eadd 14:58:40 <04dracoomega> Seems fine to make it consistent to me. 15:30:00 Thanks. The only thing I'd seen in the history was a note that they weren't added to the list originally, but other things it mentions (like food) has been. 15:31:50 <04dracoomega> Oh, I was actually replying to Implojin (I guess the bridge doesn't show reply links >.>). I have no idea what the effect of adding things to the removed list actually is, though I would be surprised if it were ba 15:32:05 <04dracoomega> But I've not actually looked 15:32:49 Oops, sorry. 16:37:38 <06pleasingfungus> i try to always explicitly mention the person i'm replying to when i use the discord reply feature in this channel 16:37:46 <06pleasingfungus> e.g. draco: such-and-such 16:37:55 <06pleasingfungus> it's a bother. i wish the bridge would add that automatically 16:38:05 <06pleasingfungus> (when relaying replies to irc) 16:39:37 I'm surprised it doesn't. both the matrix<->irc bots I've used prefix replies IRC-side with the target 16:39:40 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-324-g0b821916ea (34) 16:39:52 <06pleasingfungus> it seems like a really natural feature! 17:16:15 <09gammafunk> well remember, we use a bridge is no longer maintained since like 3 years (and I've had to patch it and also merge non-official patches). I'm not a javascript programmer and don't have a lot of time/energy to extend it. Would legitimately consider running a better bridge if people know of one. It has to be able to run either on CDO or on a small droplet/EC2-style instance 17:17:45 <09gammafunk> and if someone does want to make further patches to it for new stuff: https://github.com/gammafunk/discord-irc (you can find the original project link at the top where it was forked from) 17:27:19 someone in the discussion that prompted me to ask here suggested https://github.com/zachbr/Dis4IRC 17:40:54 <09gammafunk> cool, will take a look 19:42:13 pokedragonboy (L16 MDMo) ASSERT(you.duration[DUR_BEOGH_SEEKING_VENGEANCE]) in 'god-companions.cc' at line 961 failed. (Swamp:1) 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-325-g845a3d3791: Implement backbone of new spell school: Forgecraft 10(6 months ago, 64 files, 309+ 60-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/845a3d3791d1 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-326-g382a69801f: Allow specifying weapon renames in job-data, give Forgewrights hammers 10(6 weeks ago, 2 files, 19+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/382a69801f84 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-327-gce823060fa: Make quote text more visually separated from mechanical text 10(2 weeks ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce823060fa1b 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-328-g08c86277a0: Unify handle of channelled spells 10(6 weeks ago, 19 files, 265+ 287-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08c86277a027 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-329-g524258f53f: New spell: Launch Clockwork Bee (level 3 Forgecraft) 10(6 weeks ago, 21 files, 311+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/524258f53f42 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-330-g0e8916362e: New spell: Construct Spike Launcher (Level 2 Forgecraft) 10(6 weeks ago, 21 files, 223+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e8916362e5e 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-331-g0183c6dfd6: New spell: Kinetic Grapnel (Level 1 Forgecraft) 10(6 weeks ago, 24 files, 93+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0183c6dfd646 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-332-g3d961a6350: New spell: Diamond Sawblades (level 7 Forgecraft) 10(6 weeks ago, 18 files, 233+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d961a6350cb 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-333-g5f7b8dfc52: New spell: Eringya's Surprising Crocodile (Level 4 Summonings) 10(5 weeks ago, 15 files, 266+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f7b8dfc52fd 21:31:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-334-gb6ef6c3bbe: Pull out some Gravitas and animation code into reusable functions 10(4 weeks ago, 5 files, 59+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b6ef6c3bbea7 21:31:32 ... and 43 more commits 21:46:14 04Build failed for 08master @ 48282d16 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/11867205698 21:55:43 <06pleasingfungus> wow!!!! 21:55:58 <06pleasingfungus> big respect for slamming it into master with no experimental 21:55:59 <06pleasingfungus> i'm for it 21:57:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-378-g0f9341590b: Lay seige (to rest) 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f9341590b64 21:58:29 <06pleasingfungus> Is it okay if the player knowingly imprints something dangerous-but-fun? Maybe? Absolutely. 21:58:41 <04dracoomega> Haha. Glad you approve ^^; 21:59:16 <06pleasingfungus> just skimming through things 21:59:17 <04dracoomega> (Index tried out Devastator in wizmode once and nearly killer herself with it. I was like "Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to do that?" but she was firmly of the opinion that the player knew what they signed up for if they do that.) 21:59:33 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-379-gd72c9b7a1d: Fix tag upgrade build? 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d72c9b7a1df8 21:59:59 <06pleasingfungus> index was right 22:00:02 <06pleasingfungus> 'peripheral', huh 22:00:42 <06pleasingfungus> bolt::can_burn_trees should really be a spell flag, huh 22:01:04 <06pleasingfungus> cpp if (origin_spell == SPELL_PERCUSSIVE_TEMPERING || origin_spell == SPELL_FORTRESS_BLAST && attitude == ATT_FRIENDLY) { return true; } What's the intent here? 22:01:52 <06pleasingfungus> this only checks attitude == ATT_FRIENDLY for fortress blast - did you want it to also check for percussive tempering? 22:02:23 <06pleasingfungus> same question re this later bit cpp if ((origin_spell == SPELL_PERCUSSIVE_TEMPERING || origin_spell == SPELL_FORTRESS_BLAST) && mons_atts_aligned(attitude, mon->temp_attitude())) 22:02:48 <04dracoomega> Sigh, yes. They both shouldn't hit friendlies. 22:02:50 <06pleasingfungus> want me to fix? 22:02:53 <06pleasingfungus> while i'm looking at it 22:03:01 <04dracoomega> Fine by me, if you're already there 22:03:14 <06pleasingfungus> no problem. i'm very excited right now 🙂 22:03:39 <06pleasingfungus> oh, the second one is already right, actually 22:05:20 04Build failed for 08master @ 0f934159 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/11867365768 22:06:01 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-380-g0c33a18029: Fix: (Parenthesize) Percussive Tempering 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c33a180291b 22:07:07 <06pleasingfungus> book of duality description: good 22:07:33 <06pleasingfungus> i like a bunch of them, but duality is up there 22:08:11 <06pleasingfungus> swampland, fortress, grave also good 22:08:52 <06pleasingfungus> armour echo is a better name than animated armour was, i approve 22:11:26 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-381-g0267f39781: Fix a few monstrous typos 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0267f397811e 22:12:04 <06pleasingfungus> "A blacksmith shapes the heart of their steel just as much as any leader shapes the hearts of their soldiers. If this armour of mine could speak, I know it would say that we fight for the same cause." heck yeah 22:12:12 <04dracoomega> ^^ 22:13:29 <04dracoomega> Ahahaha, oops 22:13:36 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-382-g241dc13c55: Remove the indescribeable 10(51 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/241dc13c55d9 22:13:57 <04dracoomega> I guess I overlooked that ancient bit when I added the proper one elsewhere >.> 22:14:08 <06pleasingfungus> yep, i assumed 22:14:42 03gammafunk02 07* 0.33-a0-383-g69e20f60b9: Tweak a clua function 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69e20f60b97e 22:16:00 <06pleasingfungus> > Constructs a small mechanical guardian which bolsters its creator's armour class... what's an armour class? 22:16:31 <06pleasingfungus> huh, i guess it is in the manual 22:16:32 <04dracoomega> ...should just say AC? 22:16:33 <06pleasingfungus> the more you know 22:16:40 <06pleasingfungus> it probably should just say AC, yeah. 22:17:07 <04dracoomega> I feel like for some reason spells descriptions don't say MP in them? 22:17:21 <06pleasingfungus> > allowing the next melee attack the caster performs against them to strike with perfect accuracy and a small slaying bonus. i wonder if this should just say 'small damage bonus', since you already have perfect accuracy 22:17:27 <06pleasingfungus> and 'slaying' is a little less clear 22:17:29 <06pleasingfungus> very minor 22:17:35 <06pleasingfungus> yeah, i think we usually say 'magic' instead of 'mp' 22:17:39 <06pleasingfungus> or something like that 22:17:49 <04dracoomega> I considered that, but worried people might think the damage bonus was percentile instead of flat 22:17:58 <04dracoomega> 'magical power' a lot of the time, I think? 22:18:01 <06pleasingfungus> yeah 22:18:05 <06pleasingfungus> also that's fair 22:18:06 <06pleasingfungus> irrespectively 22:19:14 <06pleasingfungus> platinum paragon illustration found 22:19:14 <06pleasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1307213368817352805/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.png?ex=67397cd1&is=67382b51&hm=5ba1837f7521c762c99c8e3804f44474defa07f93a8ec20d7a62a1b10b68a82b& 22:20:16 <06pleasingfungus> wow, 'frangible' 22:21:13 03dolorous02 07* 0.33-a0-384-g2e8e2f50cc: Fix spelling. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e8e2f50cc42 22:21:13 03dolorous02 07* 0.33-a0-385-g907fb87e44: Add a few Forgecraft ghost lines. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/907fb87e4486 22:22:47 <06pleasingfungus> i'm still not used to seeing monsters in the new yaml format 22:22:58 <06pleasingfungus> it feels weird. i'm uncomfortable 22:23:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-386-gb08092cf68: Small spell description tweaks 10(61 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b08092cf688a 22:23:48 <04dracoomega> Even though you were the one who did it? 😛 22:24:01 <06pleasingfungus> even though! 22:25:16 <06pleasingfungus> // Apply a multiplier to base damage depending on weapon class, to hopefully // not make certain weapon types a disproportionate favorite. i'm a bit leery of this 22:28:18 <04dracoomega> For reasons of transparency or something else? (I know Index initially felt that axes would be the obvious choice outside of unrands otherwise, and I was worried about quick blades. It's possible it's not necessary, but I wouldn't be surprised to adjust numbers in general yet) 22:32:32 <06pleasingfungus> this feels like the sort of secret complexity that we end up cutting a year or two later 22:32:52 <06pleasingfungus> wow, and i hadn't even noticed the secret quick blade nerf 22:33:45 <04dracoomega> It's possible (but I figured that since paragon's damage already scales with power, the player isn't likely to assume it will do X damage with a given weapon and can just look at how much damage it actually does) 22:33:49 <04dracoomega> Like, xv is accurate 22:34:02 <06pleasingfungus> if we want to affect player behavior, we have to communicate this, right? I looked at the spell description, ability description, monster description, and ability code, and didn't see this multiplier mentioned anywhere in there 22:34:22 <06pleasingfungus> i'm glad that xv is accurate, but will players realize that their monster has a damage penalty from their choice of weapon category based on that? 22:34:37 <04dracoomega> Probably this should go in the Imprint Weapon ability description, actually 22:34:53 <06pleasingfungus> here is my counterproposal: cut it and think about it further when and if there is a real problem 22:34:55 <09hellmonk> if axes turbo scaling with everything is a problem I wonder about making cleave damage 50% instead of the amount it is now and just letting them be the turbo scaling weapon school 22:35:03 <06pleasingfungus> mm 22:35:09 <09hellmonk> (aware this is a bit beyond the scope of the conversation) 22:35:15 <06pleasingfungus> sure 22:35:19 <06pleasingfungus> but keeping conversations in scope is not the crawl way 22:35:35 <09hellmonk> the crime of videogame where systems interact with each other 22:35:44 <06pleasingfungus> anyway it's fine for different weapons to be stronger or weaker in different contexts, especially since the player will find good versions of different weapon types in different games 22:36:05 <09hellmonk> I do think players tend to like axes a lot for extended already tbf 22:36:19 <06pleasingfungus> players like axes a lot in general 22:36:21 <09hellmonk> it becomes harder to not be surrounded by multiple enemies later in the game 22:36:22 <06pleasingfungus> mm 22:36:38 <09hellmonk> hence axe damage becomes comparably more gooder 22:37:09 <06pleasingfungus> just really skeptical that a secret 20% damage reduction on a specific level 9 spell is the answer 22:38:12 <06pleasingfungus> (double skeptical about the 10% reduction on polearms, etc) 22:42:02 <06pleasingfungus> // it will refuse to shred entirely. good out of context comment 22:42:19 <04dracoomega> I mean, I think a lot of the factors that go into what weapon type a player will invest in in a game are not really relevant for paragon. You get that so late that 'early relevant weapon drop' can't influence it - outside of unrands, you will generally get your pick of something decent in any type. And player apts don't matter in any way - everything is equivalent. So it feels a lot more like you are choosing 'lategame weapon of 22:42:20 choice in a vacuum' which I feared has a less interesting answer than it does for players. (Also to note: base damage on a weapon matters a lot more for players than it does for monsters with meaningful base damage added to it, which makes monster quick blades and axes proportionally stronger on them than they even are on players) This is not to say that this behavior on paragon is exactly essentially, and you may be right that it's fine not to have 22:42:20 it, but I do feel like choice of weapon is a lot more 'flat' in this context that it ever is for players. (And the question of how those weapons are for players is somewhat orthogonal) 22:42:49 <04dracoomega> (Like, I think 'interesting unrand' is probably the actual non-flat choice for paragons) 22:42:55 <04dracoomega> Which obviously is pretty diverse and unreliable 22:43:21 <06pleasingfungus> good point that you're very likely to have some random good axe lying around for your paragon by the time you're casting a level 9, esp if you're not doing some deep elf nonsense 22:44:03 <06pleasingfungus> but i'm still really leery of trying to tune damage multipliers 22:44:42 <06pleasingfungus> it doesn't seem like something that'd be fun for players to try to understand and take into account, even if we exposed it to them 22:47:06 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-387-ge664b64c1b: Dedent 10(19 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e664b64c1b16 22:47:12 <06pleasingfungus> // Nobody minds you hurting inanimate objects another good one 22:48:14 <06pleasingfungus> // XXX: This exact padding is needed to make the webtiles spell menu not re-align // itself whenever we toggle display modes. For some reason, this doesn't // seem to matter for local tiles. Who know why? who indeed... 22:49:21 <06pleasingfungus> falling asleep, might review more tomorrow 22:49:29 <06pleasingfungus> hooray for forgecraft! 🎊 🎊 🎊 22:51:54 <06regret-⸸nde※> (As alluded to earlier, I agree with Draco's points, and feel pretty strongly that the first completely new level 9 spell since Dragon's Call and Tornado-juggling should be as flashy as "the spell where something masters an unrand your character wasn't going to use anyway" much more than "the spell where you take the axe off a D:15 / Depths:1 frost giant and have your own frost giant+++".) 22:53:00 <06pleasingfungus> require them to use an artefact, then! 22:53:18 <04dracoomega> That's a cute thought 22:53:28 <06pleasingfungus> that'll narrow the pool of choices enough to make it more likely that there'll be varying decisions between games, even in late game 🙂 22:54:00 <04dracoomega> I guess there's really no chance of not finding one at least semi-relevant by that point 22:55:27 <04dracoomega> (And to be clear, I haven't been outright disagreeing with what you've been saying, to be clear. I just also feel like the way monster damage formulas work makes weapon choice naturally a lot more biased than it is for players. Player weapon damage is affected by base damage way more than monster weapons are, so 'weaker, but has upside' works for them more. But here the 'weaker' part is barely any weaker at all. Which is fine as 22:55:28 enemies, of course) 22:55:56 <04dracoomega> But I wonder if the artifact thing is an interesting compromise 22:58:23 <04dracoomega> Like, to use an arbitrary example, a vault warden with a triple sword would do 55 damage, while one with a quick blade would do 40+40 which is so much more in a way that it isn't on a player 22:59:42 <04dracoomega> (Paragon reaches the same base damage at 130 power at the moment) 23:08:18 <04dracoomega> Anyway, I think I am intrigued enough by that idea to try it out tomorrow. Too tired tonight (I have clocked so many hours at this recently, let me tell you ^^; ) 23:08:25 <06pleasingfungus> i can't even imagine. 23:08:27 <06pleasingfungus> congrats on shipping it! 23:08:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-388-g12864aae5e: Fix a crash with examining Platinum Paragon spell description 10(68 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/12864aae5e86 23:09:01 <04dracoomega> Thanks ^^ 23:10:11 <06pleasingfungus> devs make plat paragon only wield artefacts. INTENT: "wow, maybe someone will finally use cerebov's sword for something!" OUTCOME: "hey, no one said I was the one who had to wield that Axe of Woe" 23:11:05 <04dracoomega> Ha 23:23:58 <06pleasingfungus> (my take above makes zero sense if you think about it even a little bit. strongly recommend not doing that) 23:35:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-388-g12864aae5e (34) 23:58:20 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-388-g12864aae5e