03:33:46 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 03:58:23 <08wormsofcan> would it be inappropriate to have a special boots tile that looks like converse sneakers that's only used for xom gifts 🤔 04:00:11 the time police will get you like they did nikola's surfboard (granting that one got reverted because they were wrong) 😛 04:01:55 (was it nikola? I don't track this stuff very well) 04:01:59 <08wormsofcan> norris 04:02:14 <08wormsofcan> time police can't get xom anyway 07:19:25 <08nlavsky> To summarize yesterday's discussion so we have something to return to when this topic inevitably resurfaces some time later. 07:20:01 <08nlavsky> The proposed concept of monsters completely ignoring player resistances didn't get much support. The price for getting a small, transparent, and consistent set of rules this way seems too high: * monster ai would feel more dumb, as enemies would waste turns casting useless spells (more than they already do) * some spells would require an adjustment to affect more players, e.g. LRD and Dispel Undead * there would be more opportunities 07:20:01 for monster ai abuse * and even the benefits of all these changes are not obvious/guaranteed 07:20:21 <08nlavsky> Two ways forward were proposed, one based on monsters caring about holiness-originating resistances and immunities, and the other based on innate resists. 07:21:05 <08nlavsky> And speaking about innate resists, it's surprising that monsters don't care about player's SInv currently, which is especially noticeable in the early game. Orc wizards and sky beasts like to waste turns casting Invisibility even if their opponent is a Spriggan or Naga, which have innate SInv. It would be strange to argue that a mummy is obviously rN/torment immune, but ignore the fact that, say, all Spriggans have SInv. 07:21:47 <08nlavsky> and while Implojin is typing, i'll try to sneak up one more point 07:21:58 <08nlavsky> re: Torment's collateral damage. Is it somehow important for the player-monster symmetry or critical for the spell design? What if monster Torment (and only monster-cast Torment), had effect only on caster's foes? There's no Summon Demon player spells any more, and to get a torment-casting ally, the player has to either * worship Yred and bind a soul of a tormentor * or take control of a Torment-capable monster via Marionette/charm such 07:21:59 monster via the wand * or worship Makh, have Mark of the Tyrant, and have 19+ Invo which - even combined - affects only a small percentage of players 07:22:19 <03implojin> I'd add for future reference that the largest issue here seems to be monster action economy being violated with no-op casts: Specific concerns about kiting or ally targeting are really just different ways of phrasing the action economy problem 07:23:08 <03implojin> On reflection, I agree with hellmonk, the action economy issues make ignoring player holiness seem like a nonstarter 08:29:08 <08wormsofcan> point 2 (some spells would require an adjustment to affect more players, e.g. LRD and Dispel Undead) isn't really a cost, it's just a possible future change to compensate for point 1 08:32:09 <08wormsofcan> and fixing torment to ignore allies is just fixing one of many similar interactions, there was also the issue with miasma cloud (and by extension other clouds like blizzard demons and swamp dragons) 15:38:12 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-272-ge5f5f5be5e (34) 16:37:22 03kate-02 07* 0.33-a0-273-gc4cfdf539c: Reword some god messages and descriptions 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 23+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c4cfdf539ce1 16:37:22 03kate-02 07* 0.33-a0-274-g9ae0b0c6c5: Adjust some ability descriptions 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ae0b0c6c507 16:37:22 03kate-02 07* 0.33-a0-275-gf2f3612d91: Adjust some god descriptions 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2f3612d9198 18:38:04 New branch created: pull/4101 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4101 18:38:05 03guillaume02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4101 * 0.33-a0-276-gb98678854c: Apply location effects to flank and swoop 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b98678854c2e 18:38:57 first PR :D 18:45:46 welcome! 22:35:12 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-275-gf2f3612d91 (34) 22:58:30 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-275-gf2f3612d91 23:12:58 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-275-gf2f3612d91 (34) 23:55:10 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-275-gf2f3612d91