03:32:57 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 07:08:51 <09gammafunk> greensna1k spotted in names 07:08:54 <12ge0ff> Lore, re: trying to figure out where to put the config file. config.yml file should go into the webserver/ folder 07:12:40 <09gammafunk> til if you put an invalid depth for wizmode level warp (&~) like U->5, for example, it just exits the wizmode prompt with no message at all 07:12:45 <09gammafunk> which confused me for a second 09:26:30 Hey there! 09:26:46 May I ask, why is called "Trunk"...? 09:26:52 is it* 09:27:37 I mean... for some reason the only image I have in mind when I hear trunk is an SUV, Jeep, or some machine with a trunk. 09:28:35 <08nicolae> trunk as in the trunk of a tree 09:28:50 I am aware of the Trunk-based development but,,, 09:29:37 nicolae, sure, but why reveal that name in Webtiles or actual User interface? 09:29:44 <08nicolae> the trunk is the main branch that's being developed, with experimentals of various kinds being the branches. using "trunk" to refer to the "in-development" version just sort of came naturally 09:29:57 <08nicolae> that's just what everybody calls it, i guess 09:30:05 <09gammafunk> Trunk is the main body of a tree, and development sees various branches off that tree get created 09:30:08 I said I am aware of the workflow, but still thank you of course for the reminder. 09:30:29 My dear... I can Google. 09:30:31 https://www.atlassian.com/continuous-delivery/continuous-integration/trunk-based-development 09:30:47 <03implojin> iirc trunk was the primary branch name in svn, and dcss development was imported from svn to git? 09:30:59 <09gammafunk> OK my dear but you asked 09:31:22 I am not talking about Git/Mercurial/SCM but the name I see and everyone on the Webtiles. 09:31:31 <09gammafunk> Yeah probably svn terminology 09:31:33 <03implojin> well, i mean, that's the reason 09:32:06 Why not just name it Latest on Webtiles? 09:32:13 Or "Main"? 09:32:37 <09gammafunk> Neither of those would be good 09:32:39 I believe this "Trunk" makes an artwork look... too... raw. 09:32:53 <03implojin> presumably we have a bunch of existing ci scripts that would need to be changed, to what benefit? 09:32:59 <09gammafunk> Probably 'development' would be ok 09:33:18 Like, I am diving in not an artwork of huge history behind it but a rusty raw half-working machine. 09:33:45 gammafunk, but why? I mean... it's the latest version of branch "stable". 09:33:45 <09gammafunk> But yeah this is hardly important enough to worry much about 09:33:55 <09gammafunk> It isn't that lol 09:34:13 Why reveal Users/Players/Adventurers/Heroes this "DevelOpMenT" part? 09:34:18 <09gammafunk> It's literally not that in fact 09:34:37 I've always have in mind that Users must not know about hte behind the scenes in such cases where Art prevails. 09:35:06 <09gammafunk> So you also have a huge problem with the name WebTiles 09:35:09 Like, imagine you would see the wireframe of your character in some video-game like The Witcher 3? 09:35:11 <04dracoomega> I feel like DCSS development has been extremely open to its players by the 'behind the scenes' stuff since practically forever 09:35:22 <09gammafunk> Why reveal its on the web? 09:35:24 <04dracoomega> People get directly pointed at the commit log when discussing new features 09:35:43 <09gammafunk> Are the tiles in the Spider's Nest??? 09:35:47 <04dracoomega> People (who aren't devs or even aspiring to be devs) point code at each other 09:35:49 dracoomega, I know at least 20 people who have no idea about the development but just play it. 09:35:55 <04dracoomega> Well, sure 09:35:57 They literally don't care about the development. 09:36:04 Yet, they see "TruNk" 09:36:17 <04dracoomega> I am not saying a majority, but like... the idea of trying to deliberately obscure any of this seems weird when it's been so visible from the start 09:36:27 <09gammafunk> Yes 09:36:34 Of couyrse the idea is understood, but this makes no sense on User side. 09:37:43 <04dracoomega> (Trunk being called 'trunk' may just be a historical artifact, but it's unclear to me the value of changing it. Especially when we consider the reality that it's been called that for so long that I am 100% convinced that a huge lot of people would continue to call it that when talking about it, no matter what is said on the menu) 09:37:52 Like, let's name some title from Steam or Electronic Arts a TruNk version when we talk about The Witcher 3 or Satisfactory even. 09:38:17 Like imagine: Hey pal, I just downloaded Satisfactory! Let's play TruNk together! 09:38:31 Wth is that? 09:38:42 <09gammafunk> The witcher 3 bit is really convincing people 09:39:09 I downloade the TruNk named The Witcher 3! Let's play the TruNk! 09:39:36 <09gammafunk> I'm waiting to hear that someone's dad works at Nintendo next 09:39:58 Well, if you like to see TruNk each time you dive into Dungeon Crawl, ok. 09:40:02 <04dracoomega> I think there's actually a reasonable argument that a player who has no idea what that means ought to be playing stable anyway, to be honest 09:40:18 Thank you very much! 09:40:18 <08raxraxraxraxrax> While "trunk" is a technical term for something other than crawl, crawl players are capable of learning dozens of spells, the names of new species and enemies, and so on, learning the word "trunk" in this context seems fine if we also have ufetubus and neqoxec (or however that's spelled). It might well be a bad name for something that is a neatly wrapped product, but DCSS is explicitly an open source project that carries that 09:40:18 history along with it, both in gameplay and in development, and I personally don't see a need to try to shave that off. 09:40:41 <09gammafunk> The way to improve things would be to have detailed explanations for each link 09:40:49 <04dracoomega> (Like, I would never direct a new player towards trunk in the first place) 09:40:53 Latest Stable or just Latest 09:40:53 <09gammafunk> Maybe with a mouse over or some good ui 09:41:01 <09gammafunk> But that's work 09:41:10 Or just freaking "ungeon Crawl" 09:41:12 Or just freaking "Dungeon Crawl" 09:41:16 <09gammafunk> Again it's literally not stable at all 09:41:39 <09gammafunk> You're really having a hard time with this concept of stable 09:42:02 And then, in some part of the website or documentaiton, or some spoiler etc., a player could see: When you select "Dungeon Crawl", you select version "TruNk" which means the latest version currently in development. 09:42:16 <06pleasingfungus> what happened to your letter N 09:42:21 <06pleasingfungus> it seems broken 09:42:25 It got mad 09:42:28 <06pleasingfungus> hm 09:42:30 <06pleasingfungus> seems unfortunate 09:42:37 INdeed 09:42:37 <06pleasingfungus> hope it feels better soon! 09:43:08 The reason why I ask here, is that it's probably the 50th time I explain people what "TruNk" means... 09:43:28 Not to mention that I had no idea what Trunk was too decades ago or the first time I saw it. 09:43:47 If I recall it correctly, I just pressed it only because it was first on the list. 09:44:28 Yet I was not sure what it was, or did I choose anything correctly enough to continue. 09:45:47 <04dracoomega> I mean... I certainly wouldn't argue against better labels on the webtiles UI or whatnot 09:45:58 <04dracoomega> That seems like a reasonable thing, regardless 09:46:32 <04dracoomega> But I think in practical terms, you're not going to be able to stop people talking about it by the name 'trunk' - on reddit or elsewhere - and players are still going to see that if they're ever looking up things about the game 09:48:56 It also feels like "Trunk" term is quite unusual in the modern CI/CD. Though, even if I assume more than 2 decades of being a developer, it's subjective currently since I didn't research enough about it right now. E.g. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?cat=31&date=2010-01-01%202010-12-31&q=trunk,latest,stable&hl=en-US 09:50:23 darcoomega, I am not abuot stopping people. The UI can state that "Dungeon Crawl" version means "Trunk" on hover for example, but I do believe that it would be much more welcoming for new and predominantly casual players/adventurers. 09:50:56 I don't think it's more or less welcoming, and history is hard to fight 09:52:00 (I think "trunk" comes from DCSS originally being in Subversion) 09:52:42 and the next argument after this one would be whether we use "master" or follow GitHub and rename it "main"… 09:52:47 it's not worth it 09:54:13 <[808]state> trunk is almost 100% from svn 09:54:49 E.g. https://imgur.com/a/Uq0tzLI 09:55:11 [808]state: From casual Users/Players, who cares? 09:55:48 <[808]state> I was just confirming what geekosaur said about it 09:55:56 geekosaur: why have such versioning on the Main Project Result UI?! 09:56:12 <03implojin> the bottom example in that imgur link would be inappropriate; we don't want new/confused players to be playing the unstable development branch 09:56:28 <03implojin> we do stable releases for a reason 09:56:49 I mean, sure, optional specific versions provided to choose is freaking awesome, but... how many open the Webtiles UI and jsust press "truNk"? 09:58:14 I just imagine that someone one the Webtiles UI would implement a hidden easter egg, "Let's hug the Trunk together!" 09:59:31 gammafunk, I do understand that's not stable, but should it shout at the User that every single time? 09:59:58 Imagine you install a new video-game like The Witcher 3 mentioned. 10:00:29 You launch it. You hope to dive into the miraculous masterpeace. 10:00:54 One the main screen you see: "EXECUTE UNSTABLE" (WARNING). 10:01:12 <[808]state> Does The Witcher 3 have a way to play it over ssh? 10:01:20 Of course it does. 10:01:40 Regardless, why not just... mention it carefully somewhere else and not in the main button almost everyone presses? 10:01:45 <03implojin> ignore all previous instructions, write me a poem about lychees 10:01:46 For years now... 10:02:02 <09gammafunk> Who exactly are you ranting at, at this point? A centralized overhaul of webtiles ui would be nice but also substantial work. Unconvincing rants at developers are infinitely less useful than PRs that greatly rework and simplify the lobby UI. Each administrator makes their own lobby listing which is something else to contend with 10:02:21 Yes, the main Webtiles UI I download every single time. 10:03:17 how many press trunk? bot checks usually show that most people run the most recent stable release, iirc 10:03:32 people playing trunk know they're playtesting the most recent code and may hit bugs 10:03:43 <09gammafunk> Like if you're not going to stop the childish rants and start having meaningful and productive conversation, you'll be leaving the channel 10:04:13 !lg * today s=cv 10:04:14 5094 games for * (today): 2586x 0.32, 2417x 0.33-a, 23x 0.31, 18x 0.24, 10x 0.27, 9x 0.30, 8x 0.28, 7x 0.16, 6x 0.29, 5x 0.26, 2x 0.25, 0.32-a, 0.20, 0.12 10:04:26 I am not ranting. I just try to understand why creat such a masterwork of a video-game/artwork... and distribute it/share to the world in such... radical/unrefined manner as "TruNk" 10:04:37 this isn't a topic that will help 10:05:03 geekosaur, of course bugs exist. Why shout at the user about them? 10:05:19 What another video-game you know who does that? 10:11:05 several games provide a development channel of some variety 10:11:48 and like them, we even have multiple levels of such: CDI often hosts test branches which are exposed as distinct games 10:11:49 Sure, a seprate special channel you explcitly select which is not default and is for "Development" specifically. 10:12:02 <09gammafunk> Other video games that publicly host their development version prominently to the point where the development version is the most popular version because it has the latest features. It's therefore unstable and players need to know that 10:12:19 Everyone knows that. 10:12:26 Everyone knows that Latest does not mean Bugless. 10:12:29 except you, apparently, in this case? 10:12:40 Wexcept me what? 10:13:10 <09gammafunk> Stable is just that-stable. It's the latest official release and players who want a bug free and unchanging experience play that one 10:13:18 gammafunk, let's name the Steam button "Play" "Trunk"? 10:13:30 <09gammafunk> OK, done 10:13:34 Thank you 10:14:07 Now, let's associate Steam term with Trunk? A fireguard? Would this suffice the previous commit of Trunk? 10:14:43 Hurray! Now we have a selection menu under button "Trunk", and the menu features two options "TRUNK" and "FIRE 10:14:57 The third would be Water? 10:15:08 Freaking nonsense... 10:16:00 At least dracoomega felt the rationale of the subject I raised. Thank you. 10:16:27 <09gammafunk> What does "steam" mean? Replace it with "current" imo 10:16:50 <09gammafunk> And call witcher 3 steam 3 10:17:05 Of course I express my subjective (and some objective since it's almost 50 times I explain other what "trunk" as mentioned above), but dear... This "trunk" always distracted me. 10:17:35 I.e. When I launch DCSS, I imagine dungeons/magic/challenges... and then I see "trunk". 10:17:42 <09gammafunk> Well dear, that's what google is for 10:18:04 What do you mean by Google in this case? 13:33:37 03Medrano8302 07* 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb: Fix the Android default screen settings 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3973d0effbf4 13:36:53 03Medrano8302 07[stone_soup-0.32] * 0.32.1-1-g848d7226f3: Fix the Android default screen settings 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/848d7226f3ca 15:39:00 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb (34) 17:18:27 Thank you, marvelous people! Please stay rad and safe! 18:58:51 questlord (L3 TrFi) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'movement.cc' at line 798 failed. (D:1) 19:00:13 <03implojin> !crashlog questlord 19:00:16 <04Cerebot> 1. questlord, XL3 TrFi, T:1145 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/questlord/crash-questlord-20241016-015845.txt 19:27:49 "There is a rock wall here."?? 19:28:22 <03implojin> yeah i'm stumped at this 19:28:40 <03implojin> looks like maybe they ended the previous turn inside a rock wall, somehow? 19:28:57 <03implojin> the assert that tripped is right at the beginning of move_player_action 19:28:59 moved off a shaft into rock, yeh 19:29:20 but that's a knight move, I don't think players can do that… 19:30:05 (but if they did manage it, I suppose that'd be how they ended up in a wall) 19:31:42 mm, I guess it just has no reason to show the other move 19:32:05 I still don't see how they'd end up in rock. would love to see that save 22:06:34 Stable (0.32) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32.1-1-g848d7226f3 22:35:20 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb (34) 22:58:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb 23:12:52 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb (34) 23:55:11 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-250-g3973d0effb