03:35:31 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:58:10 <02Monkooky> tloc spell pitch, probably aimed in the 3-5 range resonant strike or something: get short charging duration on cast after duration expires, next melee attack within a short timespan does extra damage in a small area based on how many melee attacks/how much melee damage occured during the charging period 10:52:13 New branch created: pull/4069 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4069 10:52:14 03Anders Papitto02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4069 * 0.33-a0-164-geb882fe372: Allow Okawaru gift reroll, at immense piety cost 10(14 minutes ago, 4 files, 34+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb882fe372a5 10:57:38 03regret-index02 07* 0.33-a0-164-gce7c55b1ec: Vault review, clean-up edition 10(15 seconds ago, 51 files, 713+ 1087-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce7c55b1ecae 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-165-gb498025f53: Remove the 'god' argument from most player summoning spells 10(12 days ago, 7 files, 119+ 142-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b498025f539f 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-166-gfb19e97205: Refactor backend handling of summons / created monsters (Part 1) 10(12 days ago, 58 files, 548+ 630-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb19e97205a5 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-167-g2d1a5b4622: Add M_UNSTABLE flag to handle removing some monsters on level change 10(10 days ago, 8 files, 14+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d1a5b46229a 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-168-g2912c12445: Don't use KILL_MISC for tentacle cleanup deaths 10(9 days ago, 4 files, 18+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2912c12445f9 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-169-gc0f3b9e138: Rename KILL_MISC to KILL_NON_ACTOR 10(9 days ago, 20 files, 36+ 34-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0f3b9e13816 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-170-gfc3e015edf: Remove KILL_MISCAST and replace with KILL_NON_ACTOR 10(9 days ago, 5 files, 7+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc3e015edf36 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-171-g714e8dfca1: Fix a minor message issue with Fugue and wretches 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/714e8dfca151 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-172-gfab00f013d: Use KILL_TIMEOUT for ENCH_SLOWLY_DYING and reorganize death messages 10(9 days ago, 5 files, 65+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fab00f013d07 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-173-g98d3b7e5f7: Remove the 'wizard' argument from monster_die() 10(8 days ago, 11 files, 39+ 45-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/98d3b7e5f765 11:21:48 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-174-gecef227842: Rename KILL_DISMISSED to KILL_RESET_KEEP_ITEMS and use it less 10(8 days ago, 22 files, 47+ 78-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ecef22784234 11:21:48 ... and 20 more commits 11:21:55 <08nicolae> @regret-⸸nde※ do the new vault_foo_statue_setup functions make it possible to put multiple kinds of metal or granite statues in a single vault? 11:26:03 <08nicolae> mostly i'm still wondering how to fix the dead trees in nicolae_shop_fire_sale since the technique in the actual vault doesn't work 11:27:33 <04dracoomega> Resonance Strike is a spell name that's already in use, alas ^^; Either way, more direct melee hybrid spells is something I'd like, and 'spell that charges up based on player actions' is a design space that I've pondered for a few designs (a couple of which are still in my 0.33 plans). I'm not sure if the end result here isn't just 'cast this spell every X attacks' while fighting, though. Like, the payoff is larger if you're 11:27:34 fighting more things at once, or more rapidly, during that period of time, but if it does at least as much damage as one attack (and how could it be worth casting if it did not?) is there any reason not to always interweave it at a constant pace, if you have it? 11:28:11 <04dracoomega> I'd love to just let the player set custom redefines on a per-glyph basis, but I think it's currently somewhat non-trivial to implement such 11:29:29 <08nicolae> oh well 11:29:44 <08nicolae> the only person to ever mention it was r-i so i guess it's not That big a deal 11:30:06 <04dracoomega> Well, it matters more the more actual decor exists! 11:30:44 <04dracoomega> (It's one of those things I might like to take a stab at at some point, but it's fairly low down the priority list) 11:47:46 I've done a couple of vaults, how much more intricate are timed portals (eg a bailey) or say an elf:3 end vault? It looks from the outside to be similar enough 11:58:30 <06pleasingfungus> (tbf, it would be easy to rename resonance strike if we wanted to) 11:58:38 <06pleasingfungus> but yeah, i'd have the same concern about repetitive play patterns 11:58:51 <06pleasingfungus> just sort of doing a fiddly pattern, rather than something context sensitive 11:59:02 <06pleasingfungus> fun in action games, where building a rhythm is challenging and satisfying 11:59:07 <06pleasingfungus> but less fun in a turn-based game 12:11:03 <08nicolae> ojrb1: the coding is similar but there's more balancing involved with the monster sets, etc. 13:06:45 Is balance testing generally done by just wizmoding a couple of characters to the vault and trying it out? (although baileys kill me pretty frequently anyway so maybe I'm a bad judge) 13:08:51 <06mumra> Does something like this maybe work as amn unrand gloves / gauntlets ego? Every time you make X strikes in a row your next hit is charged up (and maybe a guaranteed hit) 13:09:22 <06mumra> So you get the effect but without the annoyance of having to continually cast a spell 13:12:45 <08nicolae> ojrb1: that can help, yeah, and it's always good to take a wizmode tour of your vault anyway, after making any changes, or before submitting. another thing is to look at stuff like: what monsters and how many of them do other vaults for this location place? looking at how much xp your vault contributes can also help here, though it's easier with portal vaults than with elf:3 ends, since elf:3 also places monsters outside of the end 13:12:46 vault 13:15:44 Yeah, basically I _feel_ like I can make a fair judgement on strength both on my own experience and looking at other Baileys - but i feel like loading up a lvl 9 miBe to see how it _plays_ would be good. Ideally I want to find morgues of deaths in baileys and steal their characters to test drive the level... :thinking: 13:18:33 <04dracoomega> I mean, I think the point was for it to be a spell that supplement melee directly. Equipment already customarily does that in various ways. 13:18:37 <04dracoomega> I do think that something like this is in the realm of something that could be good, but it probably needs to be more context-sensitive somehow (or something that effectively does similar work in a smaller number of bigger splashes, so that it's less a constant interweaving, but something you cast less, for more effect.) One spell still on my 'maybe try out at some point' idea list was a Conj(?)/Necro spell that built up the 13:18:37 ability to cast it based on things dying within the scope of a single battle. A sort of 'finisher' move that you might plan around in the macro sense, but didn't have to micro much (because you might cast it only once per battle, and not even every battle, but when you did, it would be impactful) 13:27:16 <06mumra> Random idea, extend the grave claw charges to be a general "Souls" pool used for a handful of necro spells. Then you don't have multiple necro spells with different charging mechanics and you can just "spend" souls to cast certain necro spells in addition to the MP. Souls cap can increase with necro skill (and is only shown on the status bar if you have a compatible spell) 13:31:37 <04dracoomega> Well, the idea of that was was that it rapidly decayed. It wasn't long-term strategic charges, but 'kill enough things in one battle to get a big attacks' 13:32:23 <04dracoomega> You weren't supposed to be able to cart it around for any length of time 13:33:34 <04dracoomega> (More generally, while a shared resource system is kind of neat in theory, I fear that spells in Crawl are often learned so piecemeal that shared changes between a subset of spells mostly means that those specific ones are weirdly bad if you ever use together) 13:34:56 <06mumra> Yeah that's fair 13:35:25 <04dracoomega> (I think that sort of idea, in Crawl in particular, probably works better as a god or species thing. Where we can count on the player actually having the suite of 'different ways to use X currency') 13:36:18 <02Monkooky> I was actually thinking about this since giving the pitch, and I agree that it likely wants a downside while charging 13:36:32 <02Monkooky> my first thought of which being Slow 13:37:05 <04dracoomega> Hmmm 13:37:39 <04dracoomega> So 'be slowed for X turns, and then at the end of X turns, you get a strong attack based on how much fighting you did during those turns'? 13:38:34 <04dracoomega> Well, the attack is sure going to have to be worth a lot to make up for that opportunity cost (though that's not impossible, of course) 13:39:36 <02Monkooky> yeah in my head the target for the numbers are expected damage positive (+10-20%?) versus a single target 13:39:54 <04dracoomega> Because you're not only spending the turn, but losing some decent number of normal attacks over the duration also. Like, not even considering the defensive risk that's being taken 13:40:02 <02Monkooky> yeah 13:44:56 <02Monkooky> ok quick head math makes me want this to be 3 turns charge, slow while charging, blast is 100% of damage while charging 13:45:50 <02Monkooky> which amounts to +9% damage vs a single target over the turns spent casting/slowed 13:47:08 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Discussing which schools this could be with Draco. Late Hexes is one of the current lingering schools with an obvious gap in it, and expanding what it can do with self-debuffs seems reasonably- some "Curse of Reciprocity"? Draco mentioned "Earth" on a thematic level- some notion of collecting mass and stone- which just makes me think about how Leda's has existed for a while as a very direct "make players melee against melee 13:47:08 monsters better" spell, and which people don't cast even when it's as simplified as "at the start of a fight". >_>) 13:53:32 <02Monkooky> my original thought was something following the thematics of momentum strike 13:54:05 <02Monkooky> but I'm not married to that or anything 13:55:00 <02Monkooky> I do think this can't afford to be later than level 6 as designed, and level 6 is already suspect. 14:05:38 <04dracoomega> I agree with that 14:07:39 <04dracoomega> (I do think I prefer it in something other than translocations, as I feel like that school is already the most appealing to hybridize into as a melee character - and one of the few that significantly tempts me to do so on an otherwise spellless character. Hexes is... somewhat interesting, and there's reasonable thematic justification for it (and, of course, hexes also brings other support utility possibilities with it, if one did 14:07:40 so) 14:23:24 <06mumra> Speaking of late hexes/translocations. i have a prototype i was tinkering with, attempting to fill in that L9 hex and/or translocation gap (i know that dual school at this level is extremely prohibitive -- it could be flavoured as either, but it can be potentially VERY strong, and it'd be kind of neat .) The spell is called Remote Control for now and is maybe looking for a more fancy sounding name but it's a pretty good name for what it 14:23:24 does. It lets you directly control a monster's movements for a number of turns via translocational magic -- letting you use them to melee fight with other monsters, or just put distance between you and them. But additionally their melee damage is boosted - by a factor depending on your own skill with whatever weapon they are wielding (plus Fighting). Up to 3X normal damage if you have max fighting plus the relevant weapon skill. And at the same time 14:23:25 other monsters are noticing the strange behaviour and turning on the victim. It can take out very strong threats while simultaneously taking out or seriously crippling a number of their fellows, and can be also used defensively to prevent a specific enemy acting. While using it your own body is prone - EV 0 - you need all your concentration on the spell. But hopefully you're causing enough chaos to not care too much. Obviously you can't use any other 14:23:25 spells or abilities while it's active, and you are only controlling movement, you can't use the monster's other spells or abilities. Like marionette, you can only use it once on any given monster. i think it's fairly important for a L9 spell in either hex or tloc that it can affect even things that are normally will invuln ... but maybe comes with a 1 or 2 turn delay to kick in, in the case of higher monsters. 14:28:41 <06mumra> I have it working pretty nicely and it's really fun to play with ... the view even centers on the monster while you control them, it really feels like you're controlling different monsters (initially it was going to be more like Mind Control but i wanted to make it more translocationally based to sidestep Will). There are some oddities around energy use to be fixed. Obviously you get all XP for anything the monster kills or if it dies 14:28:42 while using it. And you can't do anything plain suicidal, nothing the monster AI wouldn't fundamentally let them do anyway. 14:36:39 <06mumra> (And of course this can be used in combination with a whole ton of other spells for really interesting synergy. Cast discord or disjunction and then assume control of one of the victims to start causing extra mayhem. Prob loads of interesting stuff i didn't even think of. Nothing stopping you controlling your own allies either) 15:09:13 <02Monkooky> While it's #2 for me instead of #1, I'm generally dissatisfied with what that hybridization looks like for tloc 15:10:20 <02Monkooky> I think most of the time hybridizing into tloc consists of a late melee char learning blink and vhi's and stopping there 15:11:08 <02Monkooky> I'm not sure if data supports that to be clear, maybe this is just me and I'm missing opportunities 15:38:59 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.33-a0-194-g07b0ac27cd (34) 16:58:13 <04dracoomega> For what it's worth, I have learned Gavotte pretty regularly on lots of melee characters (and have learned level 7 Manifold Assault on at least 4 melee characters in 3 rune games, still). The latter can be a heavy investment that I certainly don't do all the time, but I think there's strong arguments for multiple levels of investment, depending on the character. 16:59:10 <04dracoomega> (And then, if I've trained for Gavotte, Dispersal is also free, if it's available) 16:59:21 <04dracoomega> Though Gavotte is the more exciting reason to invest as much in it 17:14:02 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-195-geaf764a6c2: Don't kill an ancestor every time the player takes the stairs (Shummie) 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eaf764a6c2b5 17:15:12 <06pleasingfungus> lol 17:20:12 <04dracoomega> When someone reported this, I was worried it happened to bound souls also, which is even meaner, since they won't come back. But it did not. 17:20:38 <04dracoomega> Of all the perma-allies, as far as I can tell, only ancestors considered themselves summoned by the player 17:52:20 <04dracoomega> I wasn't around to comment on this when you first posted this, but my initial thoughts are... mixed. Like, controlling a monster is a conceptually cool effect, sure, and I certainly have no intrinsic opposition to a level 9 hex spell of some sort. But on first brush, 'takes time to activate, greatly reduces your defenses, and makes you unable to use any of your normal spells, abilities, or emergency items for a bunch of turns' seems 17:52:21 like a very, very hard sell for a level 9 spell. Which, in exchange, gives you... some higher-powered remote melee attacks for a while? Like, you mention causing chaos in the enemy ranks, and being able to do so from a safer distance, but Discord already potentially does both of those things - and on an even larger scale. I don't think a level 9 Hex needs a secondary school just to justify working on will immune things. Enfeeble already does 17:52:21 something to will immune monsters at level 7, and level 9 spells in many schools will happily do things to monsters otherwise-immune to those elements (ie: Fire Storm, Polar Vortex, and Chain Lightning all ignoring 50% of the relevant resistance). I have some... uncertainties about scaling the monster's damage based on your weapon skill with the weapon they're wielding. It feels weirdly arbitrary how effective the spell will then be on a given enemy 17:52:22 and I'm not sure if in ways that make for interesting run variation? (And of course, a majority of enemies don't use weapons at all, so I guess UC governs that?) 17:52:24 <04dracoomega> You say the camera centers on the controlled monster? Does this imply you can move them out of the player's LoS entirely? (And could thus be taking damage without even being able to see what is happening to you?) Do momsters make any special effort to target the controlled monster, or do they treat it like any otherwise charmed former-ally? (Basically, I'm concerned that either the downsides make this a surprisingly weak effect to do 17:52:24 mid-combat or it promotes a probably not great play pattern of grabbing puppets at max range and marching them off to kill things would you shelter in a safe location, completely out of the range of reprisal.) 18:13:17 <06mumra> Answering the last questions - No, the player's LOS still applies, you are controlling the monster remotely, not taking over their mind ... the game moves the camera to show things from their perspective, but if you move outside the player LOS the spell ends (you will get a warning first) You can also end the control instantly any time with a single ability that's available. The controlled monster has a temporary alignment (approximately 18:13:17 good neutral), other monsters won't immediately attack them but every turn there's a chance for a monster to "notice" and turn against them. But yes this is all happening within LOS. 18:18:42 <06mumra> > I have some... uncertainties about scaling the monster's damage based on your weapon skill with the weapon they're wielding. It feels weirdly arbitrary how effective the spell will then be on a given enemy and I'm not sure if in ways that make for interesting run variation? (And of course, a majority of enemies don't use weapons at all, so I guess UC governs that?) Yep UC if they don't have a weapon. This is a bonus on top of whatever 18:18:43 damage the monster would inflict anyway. It's the same bonus the player's own skills so it's a multiplier of (fighting+relevant_school). Every character has invested in fighting to a decent degree at this level so already getting a big damage boost before weapon skill is applied. It means it might even be worth investing some XP getting some cheap levels in melee schools you aren't otherwise using, particularly UC. Conceptually this is "you are 18:18:43 directing the monster, but you're also supplementing with your own combat knowledge to do even more damage". So if they're using a weapon you're familiar with, it's an even bigger bonus. It means you might make some choices in the battlefield on which monster you want to use depending on what weapon they have. 18:21:58 <06mumra> (It's something i was trying, I knew this was maybe overcomplicated and a more straightforward effect would be better. But it seemd interesting enough to explore. After thinking about monkooky's idea for a while I wondering if that might even fit here, but I really don't want steal ideas. But it would actually be really cool if you had a "combo" mechanic where every few attacks gives you a small shockwave explosion and bonus damage...) 18:24:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> Explosions on melee attacks instead already have a killstreak theming instead (Fugue of the Fallen). 18:25:12 <04dracoomega> I understand the flavor of your weapon skill augmenting the damage a monster does. I'm just concerned that it isn't great gameplay for it to vary in that way (and I especially don't think that encouraging the player to train a variety of weapon skills - or UC - is especially realistic given that this is already a level 9 spell. Outside of late extended, people casting level 9 spells generally aren't going to be terribly skilled 18:25:12 in even one weapon, on average, I'd say. It's not really about 'complexity', but whether the dynamics this particular aspect encourages is interesting enough. 18:25:21 <04dracoomega> (I do think Fugue could probably use some small tweaks >.>) 18:26:16 <04dracoomega> Like, my concerns at this point in time is not specifically about complexity - or certainly not about complexity in a vaccuum. But rather - what does the player get in exchange for this, and what sort of gameplay does it encourage or facilitate. 18:26:32 <04dracoomega> Level 9 spells kind of need to be ridiculous to justify themselves at all 18:27:19 <04dracoomega> "Cover a screen in a dozen dragons", "Hit literally every monster at once with very high damage", etc. 18:27:46 <06mumra> Well for instance, you can control Lom Lobon for a few turns, and start a fight will them and most of their band. 18:28:08 <06regret-⸸nde※> Lom already kills most of his band. 18:28:09 <04dracoomega> ...band? 18:28:44 <06mumra> I meant mnoleg's band 😂 18:29:08 <06regret-⸸nde※> (All Pan rand lords get a band when they're chasing the player through Pandemonium or on the orb run from taking a rune without killing that lord.) 18:29:28 <06mumra> Which is where a 1 or 2 turn delay i felt was necessary, being able to shut down lom lobon (and stop them even casting spells) for a few turns is pretty powerful 18:30:14 <04dracoomega> Shutting something down for several turns while also shutting yourself down for that same length of time isn't even break-even without other things helping 18:31:58 <06regret-⸸nde※> A lot of debuff effects have a large degree of opportunity cost of what else one could have done with the MP and the turns spent on them, which is why most of them basically have to completely shut off selected enemies (confusion), allow instantly killing them (blind), or both (sleep). Quite a few current effects are derided for not providing this any consistently- Alistair's Intoxication and Metabolic Englaciation are the most 18:31:59 obvious ones at the current moment. 18:32:51 <06regret-⸸nde※> Shutting down an unrand lord is here coming with the massive cost of having already seen that lord and then leaving the caster vulnerable, instead of the caster, say, casting Discord and then walking away afterwards. 18:33:20 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...Admittedly, I did not realize large abominations have Will 100- not that that's too insurmountable for extended spellpower, but still, Weird.) 18:40:54 <04dracoomega> Like, I'm not saying there isn't some interest in being able to move enemies around somehow. I'm not sure the power level for that is there for a level 9 spell (especially a duel-school one) without somehow doing something more than that, but especially with the adjacency of Discord, which already does a lot of what you'd want to accomplish by moving an enemy around yourself (at least if you can't make it drown itself) 18:41:15 <04dracoomega> I find myself wondering a little if there's some variant on this that makes sense for an evocable, though.... 18:45:12 <06mumra> I was literally about to mention, this actually started life as an evocable idea (some kind of "voodoo paw") 18:50:54 <06mumra> but the idea of being able to arbitrarily control monsters seemed too cool not to try and make it work as a spell .. willing to try it as either though 18:51:01 <04dracoomega> Certainly, I think it's probably easier to find a reasonable power level for this effect there (and it benefits, imo, from being further away from Discord, which already does a lot of what one would want from 'make a monster go hit other monsters for you' Like, I realize there are meaningful differences, but I'd want a capstone to probably be further apart from the spells right below it, if that makes sense) 18:52:29 <04dracoomega> On the topic of getting monsters to hit things for you, there was a Dith effect (that was already changed into something else twice before making it to trunk) that stole a monster's attack flavors and added it to your shadow's attack. I am reminded of it a little here, somehow. 18:52:56 <04dracoomega> (It was changed into something else for a couple reasons, but one of them was that a significant percentage of monsters just don't have one, of course >.>) 18:53:51 <04dracoomega> Like, it was cute having your shadow steal AF_SPIDER from a broodmother, and AF_COLD could do serious work in some places, but it felt too situational for what it was trying to be 18:55:16 <06mumra> I was also thinking, it's interesting to have a capstone that only targets one monster, where all the other capstones are AoE effects .. but yeah in the same ballpark as Discord, however you can literally cast Discord and then cast this, to capitalise on all the chaos and do even more damage 18:55:47 <06mumra> Yeah it's kind of neat with this that you can play with the monster flavours, but it's not an essential part of it, just something that you can opportunistically use 18:59:52 <02Monkooky> I think the loss of heal was a bigger nerf than you were expecting 19:01:06 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:01:40 <04dracoomega> It's possible, but honestly one of my main personal issues is that the duration feels like it makes it hard to actually capitalize on the full power effect. Been considering giving it a duration boost when you hit the threshold or something (maybe some other number tweaks) 19:02:22 !crashlog Olga xl=17 MDFi 19:02:23 1. Olga, XL17 MDFi, T:28395 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Olga/crash-Olga-20241003-020106.txt 19:02:25 <06mumra> Each kill boosts the duration a little? 19:03:26 something already dead "dying"? 19:06:13 <02Monkooky> hm if it's supposed to be power carried from one fight to the next, then the problem ime is that it's not worth skipping resting to keep the power boost for the next fight, so there's a pretty small subset of chars where you get to snowball from one fight to the next. 19:07:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, I feel it wears off even within fights, without getting much out of the full power of it, with some regularity? 19:08:37 <02Monkooky> hmm. I find early on it definitely lasts an entire fight, but there's about 0 circumstances where getting it to 7 stacks is correct 19:09:33 <04dracoomega> I am a little confused by the log saying that the currently acting monster is the player shadow, both given that the message log says it is dead, but also it wasn't even the last thing acting 19:10:32 <02Monkooky> by lair branches or later, it does run out mid fight for really extended engagements, but mostly seems fine on that front? 19:11:51 wish that server had gdb in its chroot so we could see which monster 19:12:46 <02Monkooky> certainly don't think duration boost would hurt 19:15:12 <04dracoomega> (I am suspicious it is something to do with the shadow, so maybe I should just experiment and see if I can get it to happen) 19:18:17 <04dracoomega> Well, easy to reproduce, it seems 19:18:28 <04dracoomega> Now let's see if I can figure out the why 19:19:30 <04dracoomega> Okay, actually, this may be worse than I thought 19:19:58 <04dracoomega> Just crashing in general on things dying to explosions 19:20:09 <04dracoomega> ie: even using CBL against enemies 19:20:25 <04dracoomega> (Probably some bug in the monster_die() refactoring) 19:20:37 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:21:15 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:22:08 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:22:11 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:25:03 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:25:21 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:25:39 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:25:45 <04dracoomega> Poor person 19:25:51 <04dracoomega> I'm going as fast as I can T.T 19:26:12 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:26:32 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:26:46 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:26:54 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:27:05 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:27:17 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:28:08 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:28:58 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:29:17 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:29:30 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:29:40 <04dracoomega> Okay, I found the point where the crash is occurring. Oddly enough, not in code I've changed. 19:29:40 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:29:52 Olga (L17 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (Swamp:4) 19:31:53 <04dracoomega> Which is concerning 19:32:48 <04dracoomega> The crash is from trying to access the killer (ie: the monster that exploded) by its mindex, after the killer has already been reset 19:33:28 <04dracoomega> Which implies to me that something I changed, somewhere, is affecting the point at which a ball lightning is reset. Though I'm not really sure how, as the explosion is a fineff, and thus should always have been happening after the monster was eset 19:38:02 <04dracoomega> Really, there could just be a guard around here, since the monster isn't even needed for anything relevant. It's only used to evaluate TSO blessings and to check if the killer was wielding an orb of mayhem 19:38:02 <04dracoomega> There's even an invalid monster index check after it 19:38:02 <04dracoomega> So I could stop this immediate issue fairly easily, I think, but I'd like to understand how I caused it, so that this isn't just papering over a different problem 19:38:02 <04dracoomega> Oh 19:38:23 <04dracoomega> Okay, I evidently took out the guard that was right before this point, because the comment labelled it kind of poorly and I didn't notice it doing something actually relevant 19:39:37 <04dracoomega> Like, it said C++ // Trying to prevent summoning abuse here, so we're trying to // prevent summoned creatures from being done_good kills. Only // affects creatures which were friendly when summoned. >.> 19:43:01 <04dracoomega> Though this uncovers another weird bug I didn't notice 19:44:09 <04dracoomega> Orbs of mayhem can trigger from monster kills, but only while the player is worshipping TSO and the kill is against an evil monster 19:44:20 <04dracoomega> And the chance is based on your piety 19:48:22 <06pleasingfungus> wow 19:49:11 <04dracoomega> (This is because it's in the TSO follower blessing codeblock, for some reason) 19:54:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-196-g30d083ede6: Don't crash on monsters dying to dead monsters (+fix monster frenzy orb) 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 15+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30d083ede6f8 19:55:01 <04dracoomega> No rebuild trigger for CUE, is there? 19:55:18 (there but broken iirc) 19:55:26 ??rebuild 19:55:27 rebuild[1/2]: Devs can trigger rebuilds for these servers: https://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild https://cbro.berotato.org/rebuild https://crawl.dcss.io/rebuild https://archive.nemelex.cards/rebuild Bug gammafunk, advil, or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 19:55:40 ??rebuild[2 19:55:40 rebuild[2/2]: Trunk update start times in UTC (second number during summer time): CAO: 1700; CDO: 0600/0500; CUE: 2300/2200; CXC: 0600; CPO: every 15 minutes; CDI: trunk and experimentals every 15 minutes, others 0800/0700. 19:55:47 guess not 19:56:00 most of the other rebuild triggers don't work anyway 😕 19:58:08 <04dracoomega> I feel bad telling the person "I fixed it, but you game will still be unplayable for another whole day" T.T 20:00:07 <04dracoomega> Oh. There may be another problem, anyway 20:00:28 <04dracoomega> (It doesn't crash, but also: ball lightning kills don't seem to be attributed to the player >.>) 20:05:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.33-a0-197-g56ef7711ba: More nekomata tweaks 10(38 minutes ago, 4 files, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56ef7711ba84 20:11:28 <04dracoomega> Hmm... apparently explosion kills are credited to the player whenever the source is a friendly non-'summoned' monster - but summoned monsters are attributed to the monster itself 20:11:57 <04dracoomega> Which would still give the player XP, if the monster was alive at the time of death to indicate that it was friendly 20:12:02 <04dracoomega> This all feels somehow backwards 20:13:35 <04dracoomega> I recall there being some other wierdness with Xak's prisms that made them not work properly if they were a bound soul, because they also got attributed to the player and now Xak themselves, and I guess that is related 20:15:25 <04dracoomega> I was going to fix this by making ball lightning specifically summoned by the player be KILL_YOU regardless of anything else, but I realize that makes it so that ball lightning made by allies wouldn't give you XP either 20:15:30 <04dracoomega> A far smaller issue, but still a bug 20:20:52 <04dracoomega> I wonder if explosions from friendlies in general should list their agent as ANON_FRIENDLY_MONSTER, since we can assume the exploder won't be around to check up on by the time it matters. 20:27:48 <04dracoomega> Going to do something simple and imperfect for the moment to fix the more serious issue. Too tired to give proper reconsideration to how this should be overall restructured, I think. 20:31:53 <04dracoomega> Okay, this is very silly. Friendly monsters apparently will only cast CBL if they're demons. cf: C++ case SPELL_CONJURE_BALL_LIGHTNING: if (!!(mon->holiness() & MH_DEMONIC)) return ai_action::good(); // demons are rude 20:32:07 <04dracoomega> This means, that if your spellforged servitor knows CBL, it will never cast anything ever 20:32:13 <04dracoomega> And this may have always been the case 20:32:29 <04dracoomega> Even if the player has deliberately given it knowledge of CBL and CBL only 20:37:25 <06pleasingfungus> !source mon-cast.cc 20:37:27 <04Cerebot> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc 20:38:02 <06pleasingfungus> you’re missing the line below 20:38:21 <04dracoomega> Oh 20:38:26 <04dracoomega> I did say I was tired T>T 20:38:30 <06pleasingfungus> they’ll also cast it if you have relec or more than 50 hp 20:38:36 <04dracoomega> Brain just skimmed over that 20:38:38 <06pleasingfungus> imo tired fixing code is a good way to break code 20:39:13 <04dracoomega> This is why I am not doing anything fancy 20:39:41 <04dracoomega> Though, on reflection, I had more than 50 hp and it still wasn't casting, hmmm 20:39:55 <04dracoomega> Looks like you need both rElec and more than 50 HP, I think 20:43:06 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-198-gcd4c005c59: Fix players getting no XP for kills by their own ball lightning 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd4c005c594b 20:45:47 <04dracoomega> (But yes, this is 'safe band-aid fix' and not 'better systemic fix' since I am definitely not sharp enough for the latter right now, but the former seems fine) 20:53:22 <08nicolae> me, before: now that flower patches are in, the creative juices will flow, and i will come up with many flower-having decor vaults for lair me, now: not only do i have no ideas but i am now no longer confident that i have ever had any idea of any kind 21:12:09 <06pleasingfungus> classic 22:35:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-198-gcd4c005c59 (34) 22:45:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.33-a0-199-g6c114678ce: Fix multiple creatures having incorrectly brief durations (Shummie) 10(21 seconds ago, 6 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c114678ce93 22:58:51 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-198-gcd4c005c59 23:31:44 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.33-a0-199-g6c114678ce (34) 23:55:35 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-199-g6c114678ce