00:51:08 -!- Changesite1 is now known as Changesite 03:33:42 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 07:18:44 <06mumra> I think to hit % is bugged with Sniper 07:18:45 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289229747204915320/image.png?ex=66f81044&is=66f6bec4&hm=205e2288e25b6cf54cbf557c57e12e90619b798ef4d8dd9b971ff28bfa2893b9& 07:53:00 <06mumra> Seems i broke it when I refactored to-hit stuff. Fix is fairly simple and i can push later. However, looking at the fix and comparing the simulated version to real version, I notice shields are behaving probably not as intended with Sniper (and anything else with AUTOMATIC_HIT) 07:54:00 <06mumra> The shield block is still checked in this case, but we pass the to_land value as part of the check, and it makes the chance of a shield block vanishingly small 07:54:09 <06mumra> Because AUTOMATIC_HIT is actually 1500 07:55:13 -!- robin is now known as ROBIN 07:55:18 -!- ROBIN is now known as robin 07:55:37 <06mumra> So for a monster with a shield there is like a 1% chance it'll block sniper 07:55:39 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289239035927330997/image.png?ex=66f818eb&is=66f6c76b&hm=0faa5bd4ae3c95ddfb14c365229476453b6cab54247a17ad064675a6fb9edc4e& 07:56:21 <06mumra> Seems like either the shield should also be automatically bypassed, or if we want that a shield can still be impactful then the to_land should be capped at some reasonable value (probably 100) for the shield check. 08:04:30 <04dracoomega> I believe this is actually also relevant for Serpent's Lash, by the way 08:05:07 <04dracoomega> And the guaranteed-to-hit attack can still be blocked. Wasn't quite sure if that was a bug, but pondered changing it myself anyway so that it really always does land. 08:09:01 so there are already a handful of frontends (console, tiles, webtiles, mobile), does that support my boundless optimism in believing that the code is sufficiently modularized such that adding a new frontend should be relatively straightforward? 08:11:24 <04dracoomega> I... rather suspect not, actually 08:11:37 <04dracoomega> We have a lot of stuff that isn't straightforwardly compatible between the frontends we currently have 08:13:48 <06mumra> Yeah probably best to skip shield check entirely on AUTOMATIC_HIT 08:14:33 <04dracoomega> Now, it's important that orbs of destruction can still be blocked despite this, but they do all their shield handling in a custom function anyway, as I recall 08:20:48 <06mumra> Yep, IOOD is using a totally different path. This is only for melee and ranged attacks. 09:32:26 wensley: it's a trainwreck, ifdefs everywhere and the whole webtiles frontend is an utter hack 09:34:38 <04dracoomega> A more enthusiastic way of stating the same position ^^; (Not that I disagree) 09:36:28 <09gammafunk> I will say that a bunch of work was done by aidanh to make menu code unified between the three(plus one) methods of output 09:37:26 <12ge0ff> for context: on the other channel, Wensley mentioned that this new frontend is supposed to be new no-ncurses console, with more modern features supported, like extra colours and mouse support 09:37:41 <09gammafunk> will definitely improved the state of affairs, but the details of how each front end renders the game output as a whole are....hairy 09:37:44 <09gammafunk> like lugafu 09:38:45 <09gammafunk> I worry about extra colors just because the 16 color framework is so baked into crawl's design 11:10:33 -!- kf_ is now known as kf 11:10:33 -!- hedy[l]4 is now known as hedy[l] 11:32:31 <09gammafunk> @robertxgray Pinging you again just in case I messed up the original mention. 11:32:44 <09gammafunk> Ultimately I'm not confident that I know how discord works 11:45:52 <05sastreii> +1 fancy hat gained (scrub nettle / boggart) 11:45:53 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289296971634315274/afaasf.png?ex=66f84ee0&is=66f6fd60&hm=aad0404b3a0e588a4b2999ad63bc1b86122273c757e16bf86304a5671b88b831& 11:45:53 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289296971982573578/scrub_nettle.png?ex=66f84ee0&is=66f6fd60&hm=02fab6888efd73339a6cddca9795bfe4e6a872a001da0f4fd3a63425b758ed8e& 11:45:54 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289296972456656916/boggart.png?ex=66f84ee0&is=66f6fd60&hm=f44836212c64dd8132251013c052ed0df591876001578857edd2c8ffb7feb82f& 11:46:33 <04dracoomega> That boggart is adorable 11:46:43 <04dracoomega> Floppy hat count has been rectified 11:52:09 <09gammafunk> *??srub nettle 11:52:09 <04Cerebot> unknown monster: "srub nettle" 11:52:14 <09gammafunk> *??scrub nettle 11:52:14 <04Cerebot> scrub nettle (P) | Spd: 10 (stationary) | HD: 3 | HP: 25-33 | AC/EV: 8/0 | plant, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: will(40), poison, drown, torm | XP: 39 | Sp: sting (2d7) [!AM, !sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 11:52:38 <09gammafunk> are these used in the former context of oklob saplings? 11:52:42 <09gammafunk> ??scrub nettle 11:52:43 <04Cerebot> scrub nettle[1/1]: It's a plant. It probably doesn't like you. It stings from range. 11:53:02 <05sastreii> I think they’re the replacement for burning brushes 11:53:14 <09gammafunk> right 11:53:19 <04dracoomega> That's correct 12:07:27 <06pleasingfungus> looking at the boggart and cheering at max volume 12:07:38 <06pleasingfungus> i love him… i want to protect him… 12:08:37 <05sastreii> I knew you’d like him😝 12:18:02 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.33-a0-151-g9ec8a70db8: New Oni Summoner splash (benadryl) 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ec8a70db876 12:24:33 is there a crawl-dev discord channel? 12:28:26 <06pleasingfungus> there is. what’s your discord nick? 12:33:35 04Build failed for 08master @ 9ec8a70d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/11076454306 12:34:15 <06regret-⸸nde※> I do also really like the new boggart tile. 12:36:45 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I'm not sure how I feel about the scrub nettle- it's a nice tile, but working on it was specifically about making a monster that couldn't be confused for a normal plant like how burning bushes shared tiles with the literal on-fire bushes. Maybe if it got tips that weren't just green?) 12:37:34 <09gammafunk> I agree that it looks a bit too much like a harmless plant 12:38:11 <09gammafunk> (but it's still a very nice looking tile) 12:39:56 they should be bloody-tipped 12:39:59 (imo) 12:42:46 New branch created: pull/4060 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4060 12:42:46 03vanfanel02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/4060 * 0.33-a0-151-g0be61a06e8: Fix compilation against modern vendor-neutral OpenGL implementation. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 12+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0be61a06e8c4 12:48:10 <05sastreii> Good point! I’ll make a quick adjustment 12:50:25 also, maybe put the original tile as a new normal plant variant, rather than just replacing it 12:51:16 possibly with a few tweaks so it's not obviously just a recolor or whatever if a tiles player gets both varieties in LOS 12:57:51 <09gammafunk> not a bad idea to update normal plants, but I'm afraid it would look notably better than the current ones and you'd probably want to redo the set 12:58:05 <09gammafunk> maybe the current ones look better than I recall, but I think some are pretty rough 12:58:17 <05sastreii> Mm that would make more confusion imo. If we need some tiles for normal plants i can do them 12:58:42 <05sastreii> Plants surely need some revamp 13:06:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> It's not a high priority (I could make a shortlist of tiles of interest compared to the extreme sprawling size of the art requests page), but between the single recolour tile of withered plants, the low contrast of current default plants, and the prominence of both, it would probably be a good idea. 13:15:16 <05sastreii> what do you think? 13:15:17 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289319466135588914/zdfgsear.png?ex=66f863d3&is=66f71253&hm=c616ca951719dff364d65be2cfbbbaddb7def80e4e68a490d5492f5ffc5ce79a& 13:15:17 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1289319470845661214/scrub_nettle.png?ex=66f863d4&is=66f71254&hm=4ce896943a9adb88eba46069437fa2745eab5aa630b8440e30f097922f75a493& 13:15:44 <05sastreii> kinda more visible and menacing with bright pink tips 13:37:13 <08nicolae> at that resolution there's probably no good way to draw actual spikey nettles that don't look like they're the size of railroad spikes 13:40:09 <05sastreii> Well, i could put in some spikes, but maybe it can be mistaken for a thorn hunter..? 13:47:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> The pink tips seem good. The stings are what it launches, the same way we don't put dragon breath on dragon tiles. 15:08:47 pleasingfungus: my discord nick is jamonjabron 16:13:50 <08jamonjabron> once I'm done dragging the console interface to 2014 I'll upgrade the tiles interface to 64x64 16:30:29 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...Isn't 64x17 (for Barachi LOS) larger than most default monitor resolutions? 16:39:25 suspect it'd fly on my system, since internal panel and left external monitor are QHD 16:39:34 1080p is so 2 decades ago 😛 16:42:02 <06wensley> good point, we'll have to make the new tiles 63.5 pixels each. nice catch 16:46:55 <06wensley> ok so I'm not... completely... averse to the idea of attempting to re-architect the game into a cleaner model-view-controller style, unless somebody wants to blink in morse code to tell me that what I should actually be doing is run screaming in the opposite direction 16:48:45 I think you're headed straight into La Brea, but it's your life. 😛 16:49:50 <06wensley> you'd need to have some sort of protocol where the frontends send messages to mutate the game state and then asks for some view of that state, which the backend can deliver in some generic format, where the frontend then renders. and surely webtiles is already doing something to this effect, right? 16:50:39 <06wensley> shit, there's an idea, I'll just build the new console interface on top of webtiles, where connecting via ssh spins off a websocket connection and then we parse the webtiles output back into console 16:53:06 <06wensley> like it's been ten years since I looked at the code but I assume there's still a main game loop that's just waiting for input events and then reacting to them, and then as long as I can figure out some sort of system to query the game state I can just ignore whatever crap console is currently doing 16:54:36 <06wensley> don't worry, cleanly introducing a separation of concerns along a well-defined API boundary definitely isn't laying the foundation for rewriting crawl in rust 16:55:03 the thing that worries me is 90% of the game assumes a console-like event loop, and you are asking to be bitten by e.g. timers not behaving as expected 16:55:27 <06wensley> timers? 16:55:27 and maybe the whole fineff mess landing in your lap 16:55:37 <06wensley> fineff? 16:55:40 <06wensley> psycho mantis? 16:56:31 timers: for things like auto-dismissal of summons, equipping items, etc. 16:57:05 fineff: "final effects", actions that take place at the end of a (console-oriented) turn so key bits of state don't change while they're still in use 16:57:55 (e.g. monsters dying during a normal attack and then not being there when an aux attack that had also targeted them tries to land) 16:58:40 there's a lot of stuff that implicitly assumes a console-like event loop and may behave in unexpected ways if that changes 16:58:45 <06wensley> I'm imagining an approach where I identify events that mutate the game state and those that don't, and then for mutating events I proxy inputs to the normal event loop 16:59:09 <06wensley> and for events like checking the inventory I figure out some way to just peek at memory and figure out what items you have, etc. 17:00:38 <06wensley> in particular I'm not looking to revamp or replace the existing console frontend, I know that 99% off people don't play console and for those that do they're 50% likely to be people who don't like change 17:02:22 right, but I'm not talking about that. right now therre's a lot of jiggery-pokery to make webtiles play nicely with what internally is still a console-oriented game, and it stands a good chance of going insane if that changes 17:04:35 Only 50%? 17:05:57 <06wensley> the other 50% of us don't like change, but only the sort of change that implies a pervasive use of javascript 😛 17:06:34 I changed my console font _this_ decade, that's quite enough :-) 17:07:17 * geekosaur too old for that worldview, change is whether I like it or not 17:07:54 also, have seen too many changes that I like. "phone" meant 500 sets when I was a kid… 17:08:09 <06wensley> I admit that I don't quite understand how the given example (checking if a monster has already died this aut before trying to make an aux attack against it) has to do with the console interface, rather than having to do with the turn-based nature of the game. when I think of things that might be weird with translating the console interface, I think of things like animations where one action might currently be producing multiple console 17:08:09 outputs 17:09:01 the problem is that "turn-based nature" has to get its notion of "turn" from somewhere, and as it currently exists that somewhere is very, very strongly influenced by the core of DCSS being a console game 17:09:07 geekosaur: not going to divert too much but that looks like a telephone to me 17:09:26 yes, but not the one in my belt holster 😛 17:09:35 I don't even have a landline any more 17:10:20 (also, the implications: you got your telephone from Ma Bell, there were restrictions on how many you could have (who here remembers RENs?), etc. 17:11:05 Well, we got ours from Post Office Telecommunications, ofc 17:11:36 right, I can speak only of the US, but everywhere else did have similar more or less state monopolies 17:11:43 (but tl;dr I hope to be too old for that worldview when they prize my Model M from my cold dead fingers) 17:13:00 Particularly (somewhat back on topic aha) I changed my font not in a regular xterm where it's still fixed but to http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/Acornsoft_Crawl.png 22:35:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-151-g9ec8a70db8 (34) 22:57:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-151-g9ec8a70db8 23:54:57 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.33-a0-151-g9ec8a70db8