00:31:01 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 03:33:09 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:24:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1964-g0da81c8 (34) 07:17:06 Will offer e-cookies for new death form tile or e-pizza for vine stalker death form in particular 12:15:09 New branch created: pull/3948 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3948 12:15:10 03CipHuK02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3948 * 0.32-a0-1952-gb7dc82f861: Fix: deny cast for mosters who are wearing -Cast 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7dc82f861aa 12:17:50 <04dracoomega> This has never been that technically difficult to do, but I've never been convinced it was actually good to do it. Either it ends up on a monster with spells where suddenly they're mostly toothless at random or we need to go through a bunch of hoops to make sure monsters don't ever pick up and wear those things if they would have spells (...or generate the prop on a randart that is being given to them...), thus kind of 12:17:51 defeating the purpose of making it affect them 12:18:27 <04dracoomega> "It confuses players when it doesn't affect monsters" is a valid argument, but.... 12:28:55 <06pleasingfungus> on the one hand, it feels glitchy 12:29:06 <06pleasingfungus> on the other hand, should we also block casting in gds? 12:33:00 <04dracoomega> I mean, definitely not. (I assume that was a rhetorical statement.) Though I am suddenly reminded of Lici's post on Tavern recently suggesting -Cast on artifacts would be better as something like *Cast that had a chance to give -Cast on taking damage. (I am not sure if that is a good idea independently; hadn't given it enough thought) But it amuses me to think that you could give that to monsters with a 0% chance to trigger and 12:33:01 nobody would assume it was bugged. Monster was just 'lucky' 😛 12:47:10 <02Monkooky> think you could make this *Cast fully functional for mons and it wouldn't be lame 12:47:30 <04dracoomega> That is probably also true. Odds of it triggering in a regular fight would be low anyway 12:47:41 <04dracoomega> Doesn't trigger in most player fights; the player just has a bazillion of them 12:50:43 <02Monkooky> and where -Cast just bricks a lot of monsters, *Cast only bricks them mid-fight and temporarily 12:51:21 <09hellmonk> Does *corr trigger for monsters 12:51:25 <12ge0ff> only if the monster has low STR :kobold: 12:51:35 <09hellmonk> would recommend treating proposed *cast the same way 12:51:37 <02Monkooky> *slow does I'm p sure 12:51:38 <04dracoomega> I feel like it doesn't 12:51:41 <04dracoomega> But I may be wrong 12:51:52 <09hellmonk> I am pretty sure it does not but I don't remember for sure 12:51:54 <04dracoomega> (It's just so rare to test this in a real run) 12:52:14 <04dracoomega> I will look 12:52:28 <06pleasingfungus> does hellcrawl 2 still have monster equipment 12:52:37 <04dracoomega> Okay, no, it does actually trigger for monsters 12:52:40 <09hellmonk> no 12:52:49 <09hellmonk> fascinating 12:53:53 <04dracoomega> (Same 3% chance on taking damage as the player has - which is of course even lower here) 12:53:57 <04dracoomega> *Slow also works 12:54:25 <09hellmonk> then yeah I think for consistency you'd want *cast to function on monsters 12:55:09 <02Monkooky> I also went and looked but loading vscode crashed my laptop 12:55:16 <04dracoomega> Yeah 12:55:16 <02Monkooky> what a development environment I have 12:55:24 <04dracoomega> That wouldn't be too hard either, though 12:55:54 <09hellmonk> I'm not a big player monster symmetry guy but it is good to have fewer exceptions to memorize and I doubt it will affect gameplay much either way 12:57:02 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I am not huge on symmetry for its own sake either. But -Cast is just in this awkward place where people can expect it to do something (but it would also be mostly bad if it ever did do something) 14:25:39 <09gammafunk> When's monster ^Fragile 14:35:11 03CipHuK02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3948 * 0.32-a0-1953-g0e1d8910c0: Re-work of caster monster with -Cast 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e1d8910c076 14:54:26 03CipHuK02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3948 * 0.32-a0-1954-g08e2dcbfa8: Fix message 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08e2dcbfa81a 15:20:55 I do feel like monster -Cast has no relation to player monster symmetry or casting in GDS, since it's a 100% chance effect that cannot be circumvented by any means or explanation (suddenly wondering if Xak'krixis can be slowed and teleported). monsters casting in GDS is easy to hand wave (they're trained to cast in armour, or just "luckily" making 15:20:56 every spell fail roll). ironically I'd totally understand *Cast not affecting monsters if they didn't already respect *Slow. 15:38:58 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1964-g0da81c886d (34) 15:45:46 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3775 * 0.32-a0-1960-g1f5a370163: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into gastronomic-expanse 10(37 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1f5a370163a8 15:51:14 <04dracoomega> (suddenly wondering if Xak'krixis can be slowed and teleported) Virtually certain this is not the case. 15:51:43 <04dracoomega> Er, to be clear: I am virtually certain that monster formicids act like they have stasis properly 16:02:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I suspect this is due to the implementation of monsters wearing jewellery being back when there was an amulet of stasis.) 22:00:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1965-g5a228cc3b6: Make Permafrost Eruption actually unable to miss 10(81 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a228cc3b611 22:00:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1966-gc4cf240705: Allow Mark of the Celebrant to trigger when djinn pay HP for spells 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c4cf24070535 22:01:43 New branch created: pull/3951 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3951 22:01:44 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3951 * 0.32-a0-1965-g166b375060: make permafrost auto-hit now 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/166b37506005 22:06:01 New branch created: pull/3952 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3952 22:06:01 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3952 * 0.32-a0-1965-g05d82a58a6: remove auto-hit 10(19 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05d82a58a616 22:22:27 <02Monkooky> @implojin done 22:22:42 <03implojin> ty (didn't want to nitpick, but others cared) 22:23:09 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3952 * 0.32-a0-1965-g59d94eb357: remove auto-hit flag 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59d94eb357ef 22:24:18 03Monkooky02 {Implojin} 07* 0.32-a0-1967-g9dd00976c5: remove auto-hit flag 10(19 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9dd00976c545 22:35:35 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1967-g9dd00976c5 (34) 22:55:42 <02Monkooky> @dracoomega do you remember what I was lookin at wrt behaviour? 22:56:03 <02Monkooky> like, ally AI ignoring orders the moment you get attacked or smthn? 22:58:01 <04dracoomega> I do vaguely remember some conversations about this a couple months back now, yeah. 22:58:36 <04dracoomega> About changing how pet_target actually works 22:58:56 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1967-g9dd00976c5 23:01:35 <04dracoomega> (...are you asking me if I recall the conversation, as part of you having follow-up remarks, or are you asking me if I can remember to point you at something?) 23:01:56 <02Monkooky> very much the second, and it sounds like the answer is no 23:02:27 <02Monkooky> I've found the conversation, but I still got to catch up with me 23:06:42 <04dracoomega> I mean, I recall a fair bit of how the system currently works (or doesn't >.>), but I don't recall a specific narrow plan of attack for improving it. It was something I had some vague interest in looking into improving, but so many other things have ended up coming first. 23:07:47 <04dracoomega> Have some vague memories of specifically decoupling 'automatically respond to stuff and follow the player's lead' targets from 'you gave them a specific instruction' targets 23:08:52 <02Monkooky> I remember there was a specific simple change where monsters swapped target when you got attacked 23:08:54 <04dracoomega> (Presumably by having a pair of stored targets here instead of one. But there's a lot of refactoring around this which would be nice) 23:08:57 <02Monkooky> and this overrode orders? 23:09:45 <04dracoomega> Well, there's only one pet_target and it is likely trying to do too many things 23:10:21 <04dracoomega> (There is currently no way to distinguish automatically set targets and manually set ones) 23:12:34 <02Monkooky> ok yeah this is not a quick fix 23:13:09 <04dracoomega> Very much not, alas 23:14:47 <02Monkooky> ok I will think on this, probably throw up a proposal soonishish 23:17:54 <04dracoomega> I do think having two pet targets - an automatic and a manual, and the latter one overriding in many situations - would probably be one of the easiest angles of some immediate improvement that doesn't involve a fundamental overhaul of how ally behavior code works (not that I'd be adverse to overhauling some of monster behavior code, as I've said before >.>) 23:22:49 like, say, not spending most of their time banging into walls? 😛 23:33:27 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1967-g9dd00976c5 (34) 23:55:53 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1967-g9dd00976c5