01:42:58 pisaster (L25 DsCA) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Zot:1) 01:53:55 <08wormsofcan> we'll add these for the tournament 03:31:16 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:32:19 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1581-gfdff619 (34) 08:42:35 <08nicolae> further xom ideas: along with other walk-through-able features like doors and snack piles, xom should also create shops. 08:43:43 <08nicolae> that reminds me, i gotta get back on the bazaar updates 10:13:33 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1582-g76dddd7891: Add a few more glowing_adj entries to colours. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76dddd78913a 10:55:26 <04dracoomega> That was on the list, actually. (I joked about creating some terrible theme shops, or doing the 'Xom moves a feature around' to make the shop keep following you for a while if you don't buy anything from it :P) 10:55:43 <04dracoomega> "You don't want to miss these bargains!" 10:57:40 <08nicolae> why terrible? it's xom. some of them can be good 😮 10:58:43 <08nicolae> alphashops started out as a xom altar shop: it would randomly select from a list of shop inventories, sometimes just a regular shop, sometimes a custom shop, sometimes explicitly a mimic, etc, and some of the custom shops were good and some were bad and some were just weird. anyway one of the "weird shop" ideas was "everything begins with S" and, well, that was more interesting to me than the other ideas, so 10:59:00 <04dracoomega> I meant terrible more in the lines of 'Awful joke' 😛 10:59:05 <04dracoomega> Some can be bad, some can be good 10:59:06 <08nicolae> all jokes are awful 10:59:19 <04dracoomega> An antique shop with low prices, except all the antiques are extra-terrible except sometimes one is fantastic 10:59:43 <04dracoomega> And all of the shops have 'Xom's' somewhere in the name 11:00:28 <04dracoomega> Xom's Gently Used Adventuring Gear (Don't Ask Where It Came From) 11:01:30 <06regret-⸸nde※> (But the plans of having Xom force a hapless merchant to open up a shop while in Spider's Nest or Pan....) 11:02:26 <09hellmonk> how about the shop being called 'Xom's fun supply' and it always has a useless item 11:02:26 <04dracoomega> Benedict's Fire Sale (He's on Fire) 11:23:29 <08nicolae> shops that only ever sell useless items are a joke that's funny once. there should at least theoretically be a reason for a player to want to check it out even if they've seen it before 11:24:00 <08nicolae> even my ea-nasir shop still sells stuff that's not terrible 11:24:31 <09hellmonk> Ok give it a 1/1000 chance to have XP pot 11:24:32 <04dracoomega> I mean, a bunch of the shops Xom could theoretically make would be useful at least some of the time 11:24:41 <04dracoomega> And autoexplore will still take you there 😛 11:31:03 <06dolorous_84348> Maybe have Xom's shops rarely sell hammers? Crazy Yiuf had to get them somewhere, right? 11:53:06 <08nicolae> he bought them all already 11:56:33 <04dracoomega> Whenever I get to Forgecraft in 0.33, I'd genuinely thought of having Forgewrights start with a hammer ^^; 12:00:21 <06pleasingfungus> lol 12:00:22 <06pleasingfungus> do it 12:04:09 <08nicolae> what is forgecraft 12:04:45 <06pleasingfungus> it's where you make checks that won't clear 12:05:08 <09gammafunk> I've been meaning to ask, does anyone have strong feelings on a release/tournament timeframe? I don't have strong opinions other than wanting the timing to be finalized down the day at least a month in advance 12:05:23 <08nicolae> pass. i don't want to bring my day job into my gaming 12:05:51 <09gammafunk> So that I can ensure I have time off for work for several days from near start 12:06:17 <08nicolae> xom ability: he zaps a shop in LOS, making it disappear, and leaving a pile of all its items and some spare gold on the ground in its place 12:07:24 <06pleasingfungus> seems like we have plenty of stuff but i think you might need to point this question at draco specifically 12:07:30 <06pleasingfungus> as the current Crawl Dev 12:08:21 <09gammafunk> sure, just wanted to mention it to everyone who might be contributing to tournament etc 12:08:33 <09gammafunk> on that note, I'm not sure if we'll need any major tournament changes 12:08:52 <09gammafunk> updates to banners for reworked gods or anything like that 12:11:03 <06pleasingfungus> good q 12:11:15 <06pleasingfungus> i don’t remember if we had any big outstanding questions from last t 12:11:23 <06pleasingfungus> like stuff we thought we wanted to change 12:12:44 <09gammafunk> there was a major discussion about the idea of not having an overall ranking 12:12:52 <09gammafunk> elliptic was a fan of the idea 12:13:21 <09gammafunk> in the realm of big outstanding questions, at least, but I guess I'm more concerned about questions that aren't so big or outstanding 12:13:56 <09gammafunk> at least unless any major tournament reform turns out to have 1) pretty broad agreement and 2) pretty straightforward implementation with our existing codebase 12:14:50 <09gammafunk> adding gem support last t allowed me to learn more about how the database and scripts work, which was great, but I barely got that done and anything that takes a big rework I'm just not likely to have the time/energy to do 12:15:48 <09gammafunk> and not sure advil nor ebering have a lot of time to spend on things either. But for any smaller necessary changes related to new content, or of course any smaller rules tweaks, those should be ok 12:16:09 <09gammafunk> (again, assuming that we can nail down a data that allows me to schedule work things) 12:16:28 <04dracoomega> I had actually been meaning to bring this up several times over the last week or so. I'd been kind of silently streamlining my slated task list over the last few weeks, with some sort of 0.32 endpoint in mind. Forgecraft, new evokers, and talisman stuff have all been moved to 0.33. The key main things I still want to do for 0.32 are the Makhleb changes discussed the other week, possibly poltergeists/ghoul tweaks, some further 12:16:28 draconian tweaks that were discussed, and improvements/polish to Marionette. (Along with a small grab-bag of minor hard to categorize things that can be done in part, with whatever other time is involved.) Hard to know exactly how long the big couple should take, and then it wants some time afterward to settle, get feedback, polished, etc. But had been planning not to do big 'feature' stuff after that for 0.32. 12:17:43 <09gammafunk> Well, I'll just assume that a July release/tournament is a bit too soon. If we had an August date in mind, would that give you enough time? 12:19:48 <08nicolae> i guess that'll give me an impetus to get my ass in gear with the bazaar revamp. i think this time i'll be a little more willing to change what's already there instead of trying to preserve as much of the originals as possible, which is what sapped my energy last time 12:19:49 <09gammafunk> I'd imagine you're the only one who has major outstanding projects for 0.32 at this point. I have post-felid-qw-win plans for dcss in 0.33 cycle, but noting for 0.32 and I'm not sure anyone else does 12:20:24 <08nicolae> i should also note that bazaar revamp is not necessarily a 0.32 thing, i just feel bad about putting it on the back burner and letting it fall behind the stove 12:20:29 <04dracoomega> The plan was to do some smaller fixes and Marionette stuff next, then tackle Makhleb, which is probably the 'biggest' of these tasks. I'd still kind of like to try poltergeists for 0.32, but honestly might not mind if they ended up a 0.33 thing. As for a timeframe on Makhleb, it's a bit hard to say since there's potentially a lot involved with the different capstone mutations. I could say 'two weeks?' for being trunk-worthy to 12:20:30 test, but always nervous to nail down something absolutely like that. If we're leaving, say, 2 weeks for feature freeze, and I will get to that in less than a week, and then another couple weeks for balance review of it... 12:20:43 <08nicolae> what's your makhleb thoughts 12:21:07 <09gammafunk> yeah, if we sort of roughly think mid august that gives you a month for dev work and two weeks for freeze 12:21:16 <04dracoomega> (It does sound like August is doable, as long as it's not too early in August) 12:21:35 <09gammafunk> So an extremely tentative date of august 16th 12:21:52 <08nicolae> make it august 23rd, it'll be easier for me to remember that way 12:21:57 <04dracoomega> Seems like a reasonable ballpark to me 12:22:00 <09gammafunk> can adjust that further possibly in two weeks? and if it's ok at that point, make it final 12:22:07 <04dracoomega> Sure 12:22:28 <09gammafunk> don't worry, I'll have cerebot DM you ever 5 minutes with a message about august 16th 12:22:52 <04dracoomega> There was a big long discussion on it a couple weeks ago. Starts here, if you missed it: https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/1252759667608784957 12:24:02 <08nicolae> ooooo 12:24:33 <04dracoomega> (I have done some design note iteration since then, but got fairly sidetracked with suggestions of tackling necro start that I wanted to do first, along with other small things) 12:25:29 <08nicolae> i was about to suggest the notion of demonic pacts, where you get power in exchange for voluntary conducts, like every * you get to carve a new sigil into your fles, but realized that's just Ru 12:26:10 ru has been descrfibed as "sac design space"… 12:26:25 <08nicolae> i guess one distinction is that the power would be tied to the individual choice of pact, unlike ru where the sacrifices just get lumped together until you have enough to do power jumps or whatever, but 12:26:38 <06regret-⸸nde※> Revise antique vaults as much as one has ideas for at all times, is my policy. It's been nearly a decade and a half since bazaars were first mostly settled, and standards have unavoidably increased even on decoration fronts. 12:28:03 <08nicolae> yeah, even though i have somehow attained a level of Respect In The Community and a Commit Bit for vaultsmithing, sometimes i still feel like i haven't attained the mastery needed to fuck around with other people's work significantly... 12:28:53 <06regret-⸸nde※> Devwork is regularly mostly fucking around with others' work. 12:29:37 <08nicolae> not wrong. 12:29:57 <09gammafunk> you'll never really understand how I arrange plants in my vaults, nicolae, don't even try 12:30:25 <08nicolae> why would i want to understand that. it's beneath me. i have plant arrangements you couldn't even comprehend. 13:03:55 <08wormsofcan> rare gems antique shop that only sells stones 13:04:09 <08wormsofcan> maybe a large rock if you're feeling cheeky 13:07:52 <06pleasingfungus> uncut gems* 13:10:07 <04dracoomega> Sometimes you get a mysterious 14th gem 13:10:21 <04dracoomega> With a random name 13:11:00 <04dracoomega> Shows up the gem UI after that point with a whole lot of ??? next to turncount stuff 13:11:02 <04dracoomega> >.> 13:21:07 <09gammafunk> > DeathOnAStick is a NetHack player, famous in the NetHack community for their year-and-a-half-long game on nethack.alt.org, which ran from 2004-04-17 to 2005-11-27. They spent much of this time arduously polypiling rocks into gems and collecting pet giants to carry the abundant bags of gems for them. > > After killing the Wizard of Yendor on dungeon level 1 and despite already being at experience level 30, they drank a potion of 13:21:07 gain level found on his corpse. It was cursed, as it turned out. > > Upon reaching the Plane of Earth, they desperately checked their inventory, and indeed they were carrying no gems. At this point, they went idle for 38 seconds. A few of their entourage of giants had been close enough to be dragged into the Planes with them, but they were either killed off or left behind at the inter-plane portals. Ultimately, the only gems DeathOnAStick had at their 13:21:08 ascension were 2 dilithium crystals found on the Astral Plane. > > They tried again years later, ascending after 405 hours on August 16, 2010 with over 8,000 gems 13:25:07 <04dracoomega> Sounds simultaneously alarmingly tedious and also heartbreaking 13:25:54 <04dracoomega> I like how it specfically notes the exact length of time that they spent picking their own jaw off the floor 13:50:58 <12asciiphilia> This is a very heartbreaking story. If I were in that situation, I might have broken my keyboard or monitor when I accidentally drank the level potion. Still, I'm glad it has a happy ending. 13:54:50 <12asciiphilia> ??card knight 13:54:51 <04Cerebot> ASCIIPhilia[1/1]: ASCIIPhilia's "Card Knight" challenge: Play TrCK, abandon Xom turn 0, worship only Nemelex, cannot train any of these skills: UC, weapon, launcher, throwing, Earth Magic, and cannot use forms except necromutation. 13:55:10 <12asciiphilia> I have a similar story with my card knight. After struggling for years, I finally cleared it with 15 runes, but while I was busy taking screenshots in front of Zot's Orb, with Fire Storm and Glaciate, I forgot to pick up the Orb. I was so excited that I didn't notice the warning message when exiting the dungeon, and I just left with the 15 runes. I thought I had cleared the game, but later I realized I had left the game with only 13:55:11 the runes. 13:55:22 <12asciiphilia> https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=rlike&no=298930 13:57:49 <12asciiphilia> Someday, I will challenge myself again like DeathOnAStick. To find my troll's place of rest. 14:03:13 <12asciiphilia> It may sound foolish, but even the spectators who were watching with me did not notice anything strange. (Would they think I made such a stupid mistake?) 14:03:17 <12asciiphilia> I regret that I didn't pay more attention because the warning message was not in Korean. Therefore, once I finish stabilizing my crawl frontend addon project, I plan to create a multilingual translation system, which I haven't attempted before. 14:04:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> @mumra Whenever you're active again: do you remember enough of your vaults layout lua to be able to make the no_wall_fixup tag or MMT_NO_WALL properly be referred to in v_layouts.lua's vaults_default_options()? It's been troublesome for one of the ghost vaults on multiple occasions, and I'm running into it again now as I'm fiddling around with decorative "icebox" vaults_empty vaults. 14:04:55 <12asciiphilia> Looking back now, it was definitely strange that no Pandemonium-loads appeared at all, but I thought I was just lucky, haha. 14:21:48 <09gammafunk> Haha, wow. You know, when you told me about card knight many years ago, I got a trck of nem all the way to vaults on cwz. I eventually parked it after I wanted to take a break from it, thinking I would return later. But I never did, and now I guess with the cwz ssd problem, it's also lost forever! 14:22:02 <09gammafunk> I would post the dump of it, but I don't think I have a copy 14:23:57 <09gammafunk> I did follow the conduct, at least 14:40:58 <12asciiphilia> It's not easy to get to the vaults, that's impressive. I'm honored that you participated in my challenge. I'm not very familiar with the structure of SSDs, but if there's a possibility, I hope it can be recovered. All my first clear records are on that disk too. It's sad that everything is gone. 14:41:33 <09gammafunk> Yes, it was pretty excruciating even getting to vaults. I did lean heavilly on summon spells 14:41:48 <09gammafunk> but finally did make progress into fire magic and was casting fireball in vaults (with terrible spellpower) 14:45:40 <12asciiphilia> That's right, card knight challange is in an extreme situation where player basically have to play a troll as a pure mage. By the time player reach the vaults, they have to wrap themselves in items that stabilize spells and push through with terrible spell power. Plus, there's the hunger issue to deal with. 14:54:05 <12asciiphilia> Anyway, there are lessons to be learned: 1. Pay close attention to game messages, and if no Pandemonium Lords appear during an orb run, be suspicious. 2. Always back up your data properly. 14:54:11 <12asciiphilia> Taking a lesson from the CWZ incident, I'm setting up a system to regularly back up CNC data to AWS Deep Glacier Archive. I should be able to implement it soon. (I just hope nothing happens to my server before then.) 15:01:34 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-1583-ge2cddfa179: Fix: not every attack should eviscerate (Epsilon) 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e2cddfa179b1 15:03:43 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-1584-g29f3d313aa: Silence a warning 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29f3d313aade 15:05:52 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-1585-g25ed1c7c0c: Fix another bug 10(65 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/25ed1c7c0c51 15:09:06 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1586-g1c6beb5740: Change how Grave Claw recharges 10(10 minutes ago, 14 files, 97+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c6beb5740f9 15:09:06 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1587-gef57fefe5d: Don't allow casting Soul Splinter with Oka (elliptic) 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef57fefe5dd5 15:37:30 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1582-g76dddd7891 (34) 17:46:57 cwfsapm (L5 DjHW) ASSERT(mon) in 'fight.cc' at line 1294 failed. (D:4) 18:12:12 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1588-g88ce094893: Actually remove Pakellas altars for version > 34. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88ce09489331 18:18:09 !crashlog cwfsapm 18:18:10 1. cwfsapm, XL5 DjHW, T:2907 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/cwfsapm/crash-cwfsapm-20240628-004656.txt 18:18:56 hm, might already be fixed? 18:19:47 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-1589-g0121280f0d: Fiery and icy Swamp end vault fusion 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 60+ 91-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0121280f0d19 18:19:47 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-1590-gca161acf3c: Loose odds and ends vault review 10(20 minutes ago, 9 files, 98+ 83-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca161acf3ceb 18:19:47 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-1591-ga9aa173657: Silently clear player tile clouds when Xom stops time 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9aa1736577e 18:22:17 cast_grave_claw() checks if there's a monster at the target position, but stop_attack_prompt() is asserting because it's NULL. the difference is as_monster() is called on it… 18:23:32 <04dracoomega> ...is this if the player aims it at themselves? 18:23:50 <04dracoomega> There's no way a player caster can be aiming it at any actor that isn't a monster 18:24:23 <04dracoomega> (Some of the partially-implented generality is because I'd planned to implement a monster version of the spell for ghosts/illusions, but had not done so yet) 18:27:48 <04dracoomega> That is what it looks like to me. I'll just prevent the player from casting it on themselves. 18:38:46 that was what I was wondering, but there's no way to tell from the dump afaict 19:39:13 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 19:39:13 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 22:35:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1591-ga9aa173657 (34) 22:58:48 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1591-ga9aa173657 23:32:13 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1591-ga9aa173657 (34) 23:55:29 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1591-ga9aa173657