01:35:44 What's with the ridicoulus amounts of orc priests lately 01:40:25 back to back packs of 4 03:33:32 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:08:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1407-g9bcd2ff (34) 05:52:20 Webtiles server stopped. 05:53:37 Webtiles server stopped. 05:56:01 Webtiles server started. 07:19:13 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1331-g0f7600010c: Remove the requirement to run gen-all.cmd when compiling with MSVC 10(27 seconds ago, 4 files, 135+ 52-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f7600010c9b 07:25:37 03Isaac Clancy02 {Wizard Ike} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1331-g4e7e0a5418: Remove the requirement to run gen-all.cmd when compiling with MSVC 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 135+ 52-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e7e0a5418d5 07:26:06 <05icoson> !lg LexAckson x=tiles 07:26:07 <04Cerebot> 2879. [tiles=false] LexAckson the Slayer (L27 MDWr of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2024-06-11 08:41:56, with 1535617 points after 85982 turns and 4:02:12. 07:26:33 <05icoson> I guess console players still write ttyrecs on cao 07:27:46 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1331-g9445a4335e: Remove the requirement to run gen-all.cmd when compiling with MSVC 10(9 minutes ago, 4 files, 135+ 52-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9445a4335e2b 07:27:55 <05icoson> I sometimes wonder to what degree ttyrec files are bigger than they used to be 08:09:12 <05icoson> welp, just cleared up ~100G of console ttyrec files from cao (uncompressed) that have accumulated over the last 6 months, could have kept going 08:09:42 <05icoson> (I guess the bz2 bot last did something 6 months ago) 08:24:04 <12ge0ff> !lg * cao start>2024-01-01 console x=sum(dur) 08:24:06 <04Cerebot> 7031 games for * (cao start>2024-01-01 console): sum(dur)=167d+4:52:56 08:24:37 <12ge0ff> so, 167 days of console games give 100G of ttyrecs? 08:25:36 <12ge0ff> ah, "uncompressed" 08:30:56 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1408-g14a633c46e: Fix marionette spell markers being visible outside monster lookup (ge0FF) 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14a633c46e1e 08:36:02 04Build failed for 08master @ 14a633c4 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/9468504692 08:36:18 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1409-g18c097c992: Fix an obvious typo (ge0FF) 10(27 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/18c097c9923d 09:09:28 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3775 * 0.32-a0-1344-ged886ecd80: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into gastronomic-expanse 10(40 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed886ecd8083 09:27:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1410-g01dcfa0dcd: Fix Beogh ally-heal-on-damage not being active until 4* 10(15 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/01dcfa0dcdf0 11:11:47 <04dracoomega> At first I thought this was a bug with the 'gather up all items and deposit them' part of Duel changes, but... but apparently almost all deep elf monsters have a 60% chance of having no body armour at all. Also, literally none of the casters can ever be wearing a robe. I feel baffled I never noticed this before. 11:20:34 <06pleasingfungus> the treachery of images... 11:24:35 <04dracoomega> I mean, in this case it's not exactly just the tiles looking that way 11:24:56 <04dracoomega> But that it feels like what you'd 'expect' them to, to the point that I apparently never ever noticed they weren't 12:11:21 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-1411-gc8ab930618: fix: handle some webtiles race conditions 10(4 minutes ago, 5 files, 52+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8ab930618bb 12:30:57 <04dracoomega> @qwqwqwqwqwqwqw So, I think I have the bones of the proposed Duel tweak working. You exit the arena immediately upon winning, all items in the arena are deposited at your feet where you return, HP/MP is restored to the values they had when you entered. Wanted your opinion on the balance point of the bonus for using. I think I liked the immediate healing upon duel start that was talked about, and had wondered a bit about specifically 12:30:57 topping the player up to at least 50% of their max health if they used duel while below it (and then a small bit of flat healing regardless of injury level). What do you think? 12:33:22 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'd prefer not having any breakpoints - what about just healing the player by half of their missing HP/MP? 12:33:31 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> so e.g. if they are at 50% they go to 75% 12:34:27 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I don't have strong feelings about balance, think there's a fairly wide acceptable range of balance points probably - mainly I just like having some additional bonus like this 12:34:42 <04dracoomega> Yeah, that seems reasonably straightforward too 12:36:39 <04dracoomega> I still can't be entirely sure by intuition how the power level of newduel will compare to currentduel. It's better in emergencies, but useless for one of the strongest use cases of present duel. Is that.. a net nerf? (I mean, obviously the flavor and uses of it feel more in line with how it ought to be, but I guess I was wondering 'Is 10 piety awfully expensive for it now?' but I really am not quite sure how strong it will be 12:36:39 overall) 12:38:21 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> maybe make it the same cost as finesse? I'm generally a fan of starting balance erring on the strong side 12:39:29 <04dracoomega> "Get people to actually want to use it a bunch, and then see if that feels too good or not" 12:39:34 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yeah 12:39:42 <04dracoomega> Sounds fair enough to me 12:40:43 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (also one of my complaints about fair uses of current duel is that I can just win the entire battle with finesse instead for less piety...) 12:41:43 <04dracoomega> Yeah. (Now, obviously newduel will sometimes actually be the better option, but Finesse is still a hard thing to compete against) 12:53:07 Dithmenos rework is a big W in pretty much every regard 12:53:20 Good job guys 12:58:17 <04dracoomega> Glad you're enjoying it! 13:39:14 <08wormsofcan> what happens to the items if you entered a duel while standing over deep water/lava 13:39:41 <04dracoomega> .... 13:39:45 <04dracoomega> ...okay, I should check 13:39:51 <04dracoomega> I did not consider this 13:40:06 <09hellmonk> S i z z l i n g s p l a s h 13:40:11 <04dracoomega> (My guess is probably it destroys all of them at present, which definitely isn't ideal) 13:40:11 <08wormsofcan> that seems like the first thing to consider when you have a "deposit items under the player" effect 13:40:22 <04dracoomega> I forgot about the part where players can stand in places where items cannot! 13:40:42 <08wormsofcan> hehe 13:41:51 <04dracoomega> "Okawaru crowns you victorious! Welcome back to the Shoals. You hear a splash x3" 13:41:52 <04dracoomega> >.> 13:42:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> Time to... make them all randomly teleport throughout the level if you're on the edge of Shoals and then Duel?... 13:42:24 <04dracoomega> I am sort of wondering what the desired behavior here is. Like, it's easy enough to pick some nearby spot to put them, if there is one, but if there isn't? 13:42:46 <04dracoomega> I am wondering if we can cheat and just put land under you when you exit and this would happen >.> 13:42:57 <04dracoomega> You can't really abuse this fact 13:43:32 <08wormsofcan> bold idea: deposit them on an oka altar somewhere in the dungeon 13:43:55 <04dracoomega> 'Somewhere in the dungeon' means excursions 13:44:14 <04dracoomega> (But we could always replace the floor with an oka altar if we need to carve it out of lava or something :P) 13:44:56 <04dracoomega> Like, forcing the player to search around to track down this stuff feels kind of bad, and I think it's probably harmless-if-weird to just change the terrain in cases where this matters 13:45:06 <08wormsofcan> could also be a empty portal tile 13:45:14 <04dracoomega> It could 13:45:43 <04dracoomega> (Like, the player had to already be able to stand on this terrain in the first place, so it's not like you can use it to get anywhere you couldn't otherwise) 13:45:54 <08wormsofcan> putting land also seems good for the extreme edge case where a player initiates a duel with temporary flight over deep water/lava and it expires during the fight 13:46:25 <04dracoomega> Huh, yeah, I suppose. I guess currently that makes you start to drown, huh? 13:46:31 <04dracoomega> (Will double-check) 13:47:46 <04dracoomega> No, I seem to have landed somewhere else entirely 13:48:00 <04dracoomega> (Kind of nearby, though) 13:49:04 <08wormsofcan> is it on land? 13:49:25 <04dracoomega> (Was shallow water, which is close enough here) 13:49:31 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> making land + oka altar if necessary sounds reasonable enough 13:49:59 <04dracoomega> I guess the stairs function must look elsewhere if it can't place you or something (will check the exact logic) 13:50:01 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I also forget how we currently handle reading acq on top of bad terrain 13:50:38 <09hellmonk> how do you avoid accidentally trapping the player if they have temp flight and no remaining flight sources (very unlikely but possible edge case) 13:50:41 <04dracoomega> "Anything you acquire here would fall and be lost!" and then aborts 13:50:42 <04dracoomega> Apparently 13:50:57 <04dracoomega> I was actually just about to mention this 13:51:10 <04dracoomega> Hence why I'm looking into the code that is currently displacing me in that case 13:51:50 <04dracoomega> It appears to displace me from deep water even when I still had temporary flight active 13:52:15 <04dracoomega> (ie: I exited a duel with !enlightenment active on me) 13:52:34 <09hellmonk> huh 13:52:48 <04dracoomega> So I guess the only way to exit a duel over deep water / lava is if you can permanently exist there (in which case an island should be safe) 13:53:27 <09hellmonk> I like the okawaru altar idea then, it's cute 14:02:16 <04dracoomega> Okay, this works now. Thanks for the catch! 14:06:00 <02Monkooky> so then the question becomes how many oka altars can you cram into shoals 14:06:09 <04dracoomega> Haha 14:06:20 <04dracoomega> Sounds like a fun bit of silliness, honestly 14:06:26 <04dracoomega> Like, not useful, but silly 14:06:32 <09gammafunk> @dracoomega not sure if you can try some version of what doors do in terms of pushing items 14:06:51 <09gammafunk> however it's possible that the player is some place deep into a lava/water area 14:06:59 <04dracoomega> I could, but as I said, it's easy if there's floor nearby, but there's always the question of what happens when that's not true 14:07:23 <04dracoomega> One can easily have no floor anywhere in sight of deep water in Shoals, and there's various lava vaults that have none for a long distance 14:07:32 <04dracoomega> I don't really like the idea of the player having to hunt around for items in that case 14:07:47 <09gammafunk> well, ultimately there must be land somewhere on the level, but yeah it's true that it might get pushed far 14:08:03 <04dracoomega> Yeah, there will always be somewhere to push it, but that could still mean searching 14:08:23 <09gammafunk> however I'm not sure there really can be any other sort of solution? Like you can't put it in inventory reliably 14:08:38 <04dracoomega> Are you objecting to the altar thing? 14:09:25 <09gammafunk> you want a terrain change to the altar? 14:09:29 <09gammafunk> in the extreme case 14:11:36 <09gammafunk> actually, I kind of actually like your suggestion to terrain change deep water/lava to land if it would matter 14:11:42 <09gammafunk> under the player 14:11:56 <09gammafunk> maybe that's what you're suggesting already but there were multiple suggestions above so I wasn't sure 14:12:08 <04dracoomega> Well, I guess I don't see the need to perform two separate behaviors of "Move items somewhere nearby, if it's reasonably close" (and then have the player figure out where that is) and "Make land if it's too far away" when we could just make land all of the time you've over uninhabitable terrain so that the items are always beneath you, full stop. 14:12:18 <09gammafunk> yep 14:12:52 <09gammafunk> this makes me wonder: if you duel over a trap, do you retrigger trap effects when you return? 14:13:28 <04dracoomega> You can't actually come back out on a trap 14:13:33 <04dracoomega> It already moves the player first 14:13:35 <09gammafunk> that could create another weird edge case for permanent teleport traps (you would have to take off a -tele item in the arena though) 14:13:38 <09gammafunk> oh, cool 14:13:54 <04dracoomega> Basically, there's already a layer of "You won't emerge anywhere it's unsafe to be", so we can assume wherever the player is, is fine 14:14:26 <04dracoomega> (This is just in general level transit code - not duel-specific. But it's hard to trigger this movement through other means, I think) 14:14:44 <04dracoomega> (I wonder if it happens when you exit the abyss if you were abyss'd while standing on a trap?) 14:14:55 <09gammafunk> I wonder how it handles when you dueled on a trap and there's somehow no habitable/safe land adjacent 14:15:12 <04dracoomega> It doesn't care about LoS, and just uses a distance_iterator to find a place to be 14:15:22 <04dracoomega> So closest first, but will put you through a wall if it has to 14:15:30 <09gammafunk> ok, so in theory you might emerge far away and through walls 14:15:42 <04dracoomega> I think that is very, very unlikely in practice, but in theory, yes 14:15:46 <09gammafunk> that sounds like some weird amazing potential tech for passing through permarock or something 14:16:17 <09gammafunk> but probably extremely difficult to pracitcally use even for "transporting" into a stone/metal/crystal vault 14:16:25 <04dracoomega> Wondering about some weird decorative vault with things behind glass. Are there any with lava in the right places? 14:16:48 <04dracoomega> Because the inside of the place you're not supposed to get also needs to be closer (or at least equivalently close) to any other floor 14:17:26 <09gammafunk> I'm not sure if you ever saw Yermak's legendary exploit of returning from the abyss to get access to the (now removed) decorative weapons behind permarock in that one bailey entrance map 14:17:45 <04dracoomega> Don't think so 14:17:48 <04dracoomega> How did this work? 14:18:10 <09gammafunk> I'll find the tavern thread in a bit so you can read; it involved some pretty weird stuff 14:18:31 <09gammafunk> we did eventually remove the decorative weapons (I suppose partly because of said tech) 14:18:42 <09gammafunk> oh and it was inside of a bailey too 14:18:56 <09gammafunk> I need to re-read the thread myself because I'm a bit hazy on it 14:30:28 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1412-gcafd96f65b: Rework Okawaru's Duel ability somewhat 10(7 minutes ago, 13 files, 81+ 105-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cafd96f65bc8 14:45:34 <02Monkooky> might benefit from being clearer about if duel is pre or post heal 14:48:21 <04dracoomega> What do you mean? 15:06:52 <02Monkooky> But when the duel ends, your hp/mp will be reset to whatever they were when the duel started. 15:07:21 <02Monkooky> is this 'when you used the ability' or 'immediately after being healed' 15:09:58 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I mean, if we are just talking about the commit message then I think it's very clear that it has to be the former because if it were the latter then dueling something weak to heal would still be a thing, and it says up front that the commit is intended to stop that 15:10:11 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I don't know what the description of the ability says now 15:10:55 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> okay, I looked at the new ability description and it looks perfectly clear 15:11:27 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> not sure why we are nitpicking a commit message, not like we are going to make a new commit with no content to clarify the last commit message... 15:19:38 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I deliberately said 'before you issued the challenge' instead of something like 'before the duel started' to try and reduce the ambiguity as much as possible. Since surely Oka can't have done anything before you used the ability, right? 15:30:28 <02Monkooky> but it literally does say 'before the duel started' 15:31:21 <02Monkooky> oh, yeah only in the commit message though 15:31:50 <04dracoomega> Yes, perhaps I wasn't quite as careful in my wording there as in the one the players will be (since I was also talking more at length) 15:37:28 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1412-gcafd96f65b (34) 16:21:36 <09gammafunk> speaking of old Yermak tavern posts, I found this good one in CYC. Forgot how he set that crazy old dith record 16:21:36 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1250228471163261059/image.png?ex=666a2d7f&is=6668dbff&hm=8045e471642d8fb96b6e764f60208f30ac5339a5def197b1c3aa9bba7d349c5a& 16:21:40 <09gammafunk> ??ninja 16:21:41 <04Cerebot> ninja[1/3]: The act of grabbing a rune or orb without killing its guardian or guardians. Most common in Zot, Hell and Pandemonium. 16:21:46 <09gammafunk> ??ninja[yermak 16:21:46 <04Cerebot> ninja[3/3]: !hs * Sp-- I did this! 154525. Yermak the Ninja (L22 SpAs), worshipper of Dithmengos, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes 16:21:55 <09gammafunk> !hs yermak spas 16:21:56 <04Cerebot> No games for yermak (spas). 16:22:00 <09gammafunk> oh 16:22:04 <09gammafunk> !hs yermak spbr 16:22:05 <04Cerebot> 202. Yermak the Ninja (L22 SpBr of Dithmenos), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-01-18 01:19:16, with 48050858 points after 29929 turns and 8:16:23. 16:22:30 <09gammafunk> that was probalby the sp species record at the time or something, but not good enough for overall high score I believe 16:24:11 <09gammafunk> @dracoomega ok, found it! This is a good read: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=25820 16:25:16 <09gammafunk> particularly how hard the second set of items in the bailey map were to get 16:27:10 <09gammafunk> One of these days in the not-so-distant future, old tavern will be taken offline and this valuable tome of crawl history will be lost to the mists of time... 16:27:33 <04dracoomega> Okay, so the Abyss thing will work that way (as I speculated earlier) 16:27:39 <09gammafunk> yep 16:27:51 <04dracoomega> Much harder to pull this off now that the player can't make water like that, though 16:28:17 <09gammafunk> yeah, is there even a way to make temporary deep water any more? 16:28:32 <04dracoomega> Well, temporary lava is possible with hellfire mortar 16:28:39 <09gammafunk> oh, well that works, yeah 16:28:50 <09gammafunk> you've brought back old secret tech 16:28:58 <04dracoomega> Probably harder to fill all the places you need with a line, though 16:29:08 <09gammafunk> I guess stuff like luring a salamander tyrant could in theory work too 16:29:24 <09gammafunk> or a stormcaller 16:30:12 <04dracoomega> I suppose it actually wouldn't be hard to make this 'fallback if we can't put the player there' thing just respect no-tele-into 16:30:13 <06dolorous_84348> Some of Qazlal's abilities can generate temporary lava, as well. 16:30:41 <09gammafunk> yeah making it check no-tele-into sounds like a great idea 16:30:53 <09gammafunk> otherwise stuff can get put into teleport closets, theoretically 16:30:54 <04dracoomega> This does mean that it would push the player further away than 'necessary' in some cases (for instance, if you were inside a ghost vault at the time) but seems pretty harmless 16:31:34 <12ge0ff> someone has already saved a snapshot of this page on archive.org 16:31:53 <12ge0ff> (back in 2020) 16:32:03 <09gammafunk> that's just one page! 16:32:36 <09gammafunk> and what if you want to search it, although I guess in theory you could search it more manually with text parsing scripts/tools etc 16:33:34 <09gammafunk> I have no idea how easy it would be to archive an old phpbb forum like this, but maybe if Napkin does bring it offline, that can be done in some way 16:34:18 <09gammafunk> ...do I not have tavern 2 in my bookmarks 16:34:20 <09gammafunk> ??tavern 16:34:20 <04Cerebot> forum[1/11]: https://tavern.dcss.io/ 16:35:42 <04dracoomega> Preserving history is nice 16:51:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1413-gd887a3bc58: Include apostle short descriptions in Beoghite character dumps 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 20+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d887a3bc58e8 16:51:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1414-ge82873c70e: Don't return from the Abyss into inaccessible areas 10(51 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e82873c70e17 17:05:39 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1415-gd4d5bcc6f4: Allow Cloak of the Thief to stack with Dith 1* power 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4d5bcc6f473 19:06:28 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1331-ge7701b4b92: Remove the requirement to run gen-all.cmd when compiling with MSVC 10(12 hours ago, 4 files, 140+ 52-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e7701b4b9253 21:16:50 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1416-g4bbee2eeb2: Fix punctuation in quote citations. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bbee2eeb273 21:16:50 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1417-gd6a05a151d: Add quote alias for wand of warping. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d6a05a151d2b 22:35:28 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1417-gd6a05a151d (34) 22:55:30 squipdi (L22 GrMo) ASSERT(attacker) in 'attack.cc' at line 377 failed. (Zig:18) 22:58:28 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1417-gd6a05a151d 23:33:01 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1417-gd6a05a151d (34) 23:55:24 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1417-gd6a05a151d