00:26:39 <02Monkooky> so I'm lookin at reworking corrosion again 00:28:01 <02Monkooky> Specifically, I'm thinking about making corrosion much more granular on the backend, so that acid clouds (and gastronomic expanse) can be made much more sensible 00:34:22 <02Monkooky> acid clouds currently corrode for a fixed amount every action, irrespective of how many auts are spent- this sucks my planned change is to upscale the corrosion prop- so every 10 (or whatever) value of the corrosion prop is -1 corr in practice. Then acid clouds can apply e.g. 1/10th of a corrosion stack for a 1 aut action. 00:42:25 <02Monkooky> what I'm wondering is -should corrosion still only apply in increments of -2/-4, or can I get -1 corrode by taking a fast action in an acid cloud? -should the chance of resisting corrosion based on present corrosion instead downscale incoming corrosion? -should the expected corrosion remain order agnostic i.e. a big corrode followed by a small corrode is equivalent to a small corrode followed by a small corrode 03:33:23 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 04:03:26 New branch created: pull/3853 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3853 04:03:27 03fbwer02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3853 * 0.32-a0-1327-gdf0846a24f: Add files via upload 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df0846a24f52 05:07:44 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f (34) 06:12:15 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'm somewhat confused - it sounds like you are talking about players inside acid clouds (monster corrosion is very different) but I have no clue how to get acid clouds that can hurt the player (since yellow dracs are immune to the ones they create, which are the only ones I remember seeing). Maybe there's some other effect that makes them, but it has to be really rare... why exactly do you want to rework all of corrosion for 06:12:15 something so rare? 06:14:12 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'm also not sure what is intrinsically better design about making spending half a turn in an acid cloud with rCorr give -1 corr instead of having a 50% chance of giving 0 corr or -2 corr 06:15:45 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> the latter seems totally fine to me in general, there's no principle saying that every status must scale down as much as possible 06:16:22 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> so absent an argument to the contrary, I'd say just making acid cloud effects depend on aut spent in them without reworking the corrosion prop seems much more sensible 07:05:49 <02Monkooky> condenser vane is I think the only source besides maybe weird vaults, but the real motivation is using this for gastronomic expanse 07:06:06 <06dolorous_84348> I think Xom's random cloud generation can make them too? 07:08:03 <02Monkooky> Gastronomic expanse currently has an aut-based chance to apply corrosion. see https://discord.com/channels/735056636644687913/747522859361894521/1236486137409835026 for DracoOmega's feedback regarding this 07:12:59 <02Monkooky> experientially with gastronomic expanse- where by design you should be expecting to spend multiple turns in the effect, but it should be applying corrosion at a rate significantly less than one stack per turn- it feels a little bad to have such high variance in corrosion/aut 07:14:08 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I don't know what gastronomic expanse is) 07:15:55 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (okay, I found the PR) 07:16:15 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> wow, an acid spell 07:16:21 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> weren't we not going to do those or something 😛 07:17:00 <06mumra> You could just let gastronomic expanse apply player corrosion on its own timer so you keep a tally of how many aut they spend in it and every 20 aut you apply the damage or however long 07:17:02 <02Monkooky> you can't tell me what to won't do! 07:17:08 <06mumra> Rather than having to make it consistent with clouds 07:18:04 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yeah, I was going to suggest the same thing, just giving gastronomic expanse its own player prop 07:18:37 <06mumra> (Which you are presumably already tracking or something close anyway for the mechanics of the spell) 07:18:58 <02Monkooky> yeah it's certainly easy enough to add a prop 07:20:50 <02Monkooky> I was thinking that the use case for gastronomic expanse was sufficiently similar to clouds that you might as well use the same solution for acid clouds, but I'll leave that for later 07:22:41 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I don't particularly mind an acid spell existing, but there were various reasons why people have said they were a bad idea in the past... specifically if in alchemy there are some concerns about it being near-unresistible alongside a lot of very resistible (poison) spells) 07:23:12 <02Monkooky> Yeah, I think that argument's much less strong when it's no longer poison 07:23:25 <02Monkooky> since irradiate is even less resistable 07:23:34 <06pleasingfungus> has fusillade already broken the surly bonds of resistability? i don’t know what that does 07:23:40 <06pleasingfungus> irrad probably has 07:23:46 <06pleasingfungus> ah, beaten 07:24:11 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> irradiate is at least not spammable and fusillade is very high level 07:24:16 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I don't know what level this spell is 07:24:23 <02Monkooky> yeah this is also targetted for very high level 07:24:27 <02Monkooky> I'm aiming for 8 07:24:37 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> can't you just make it not apply self-corrosion then 😛 07:24:45 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I don't think that's hugely interesting for a L8 spell 07:26:21 <02Monkooky> Eh, the thought is that you get a tradeoff of larger area and longer duration if you take on higher corrosion 07:27:34 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> well, partly it's more interesting on a spell more likely to be used on some sort of hybrid 07:27:44 <02Monkooky> yeah, that's true 07:28:19 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (probably hard to balance something like this at lower level though as unresistible aoe damage/time...) 07:30:33 <06pleasingfungus> i had an old pitch for effects that created corroding + asphyxiating ‘rust clouds’ 07:30:33 <06pleasingfungus> but 07:30:53 <06pleasingfungus> unclear anyone would be happy w more unbreathing checks :p 07:30:55 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> anyway, I think there's a lot of value in player corrosion status coming in fairly large chunks 07:31:03 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> players learn how bad Corr-4 and Corr-8 are 07:31:14 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> they don't learn how bad Corr-1 and Corr-3 are 07:33:59 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> it's true you could leave things chunked at Corr-4 but just store partial corrosion, but then there's some game with "spending 0.9 aut in this cloud is harmless" that happens 07:34:58 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> you can randomize partial corrosion amount granted I guess 07:35:36 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> but still I think unless there are plans to make acid clouds exist, it's better to manipulate this sort of timing directly by your spell 09:02:21 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1327-gb2d4fd1c9b: Fix Grunn speech typo (DevastatorOne). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2d4fd1c9bf6 09:31:14 <06regret-⸸nde※> Using acid clouds against the player has a pretty limited window of usability, since rCorrosion gives complete resistance to such (to make it more usable with condenser vane); it has to be early enough that it's not completely ignorable in thus swapping on an acid resist ring, which is also where acid's already got jellies, acid dragons, and oklob / saplings. (Oklobs have felt a bit sad relative to the fear they used to raise 09:31:14 of permanent-damage pre-corrosion-rework, admittedly, so maybe some catoblepas-style shot-and-line-of-acid wouldn't be bad for the plant? Sounds annoying for Fedhas worshippers, though.) 09:49:53 <04dracoomega> That sounds much worse for Fedhas in that a bunch of oklobs together don't really stack, and that's mostly how you want to use them 09:50:36 <06regret-⸸nde※> No, no, the idea is that it'd still have its scaling impact damage (like how monster cloud spells still have). 09:50:46 <04dracoomega> (Time-based probabilistic corrosion for clouds seems fine. Gastronomic expanse doing something different than that also seems fine, since it's a flashy unique effect. And really, probably wants the self-harm tuned in a way particular to that spell without worrying about the consequences on other things. Probably?) 10:00:27 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (to be clear, I don't actually WANT plans to make acid clouds exist :P) 10:05:19 <06pleasingfungus> have we considered adding a series of increasingly inadvisable cloud generator vaults 10:07:08 sounds like a nicolae thing 😛 11:21:14 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af: Improve speech regarding random classes of gods. 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 30+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c82b5af2afe7 11:33:30 <06dolorous_84348> Now, the lists of evil and chaotic gods in the Zin angel's spell no longer have to be updated every time a god in either list changes; the code is now used to randomly find gods in such lists. (Unfortunately, this will cause a small conflict when merging newDith, since Dithmenos is removed from the list of evil gods in that branch, but it's short-term pain for long-term gain, I think.) 12:30:40 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1343-g6457dcb80b: Make shadow mimic play less poorly with Ensorcelled Hibernation 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6457dcb80b96 15:36:51 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af (34) 18:37:38 <08nicolae> how inadvisable we talkin'. put me in, coach 18:40:54 <08nicolae> oh, wow, i have more snake decor vaults sitting around than i thought. 21! damn. i should commit them this week since i'll be away from my desktop next week 18:57:12 <06pleasingfungus> blackjack! 19:00:02 <08nicolae> i should probably make some smaller ones before i push though 19:00:07 <08nicolae> some of these are kind of sprawling 19:39:35 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 19:39:35 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 22:35:07 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af (34) 22:58:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af 23:13:17 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af (34) 23:54:48 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1328-gc82b5af2af