03:32:55 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:07:30 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8 (34) 06:03:11 <06mumra> I started looking at making wands usable by higher tier monsters. One small thing is concerning me so far: currently, monsters won't pick up a wand with zero charges. And even if one did manage to get into their inventory, they wouldn't use it (even though technically they can since they don't use charges). This isn't such a massive issue with current state of wands but I worry that if wands started scaling higher, suddenly the player 06:03:12 might feel it's worthwhile to use up all a wand's charges before leaving it on the floor, in case something nasty picked it up on the orbrun. Can see two obvious options to sidestep this, either: a) Don't let monsters pick up wands at all, they can only use them if they spawn with them (also stops the player outright trying to abuse something like getting an apostle to pick up a wand before they convert or whatever other exploits could turn up) b) Or, 06:03:12 just let monsters use wands at zero charges anyway. I don't think it particularly needs an explanation, they obviously had a ?recharge handy 🙂 06:04:11 <06mumra> Even in the b) case, the player is still rather encouraged to hoover up wands they don't care about in order to stack them, so I wonder if a) is just best overall 06:05:43 <06mumra> And we can slightly increase the likelihood of spawning with wands and/or add more wand carriers in vaults to replace the occasional chance that a monster might have picked up a floor wand 06:08:03 <06mumra> (Currently seems as though the only things ever given wands randomly are uniques with a 1/5 chance) 06:10:48 <02Monkooky> ...don't monsters only pick up items the player has never seen? 06:11:15 <02Monkooky> for more or less exactly this reason 06:11:39 <06mumra> i'm sure i've coerced a monster into picking up some sleep darts when i was testing blindness 06:13:25 <06mumra> but you're right, the check is there 06:14:51 <06mumra> (with an exception specifically for maurice, of course) 06:19:10 <06mumra> The checks for zero charge wands are just redundant in this case then I think: wands shouldn't generate empty, and if you've emptied a wand then you've also seen it 07:10:06 <09gammafunk> just to be clear, we very much do not want monsters to pick up equipment/consumables the player has already seen 07:10:26 <09gammafunk> also, wands with zero charges shouldn't exist? they're destroyed automatically when their charge reaches zero 07:14:36 <09gammafunk> two major changes that you might have missed since you were last active in the 0.20 or so era are that monsters now never pick up equipment if the player has seen it, and wands now stack by type (merging charges) automatically and are destroyed automatically when they run out of charges 07:14:47 <09gammafunk> hence wands without charges are a thing one can only make in wizard mode 07:15:14 <09gammafunk> I'm not as sure of the timeline regarding monsters not picking up seen equipment, as that one is definitely older than wand stacking/autodestruction 07:16:19 <09gammafunk> there has been some discussion in the somewhat recent past about monsters and wand usage. We simultaneously made monsters able to use more types of wands and greatly restricted the monsters than can use them, I think for balance reasons 07:16:32 <06mumra> i thought that should be true, but i tested it in wizmode in a silly way (by setting the plus to zero) and i still had the wand. now i just tested setting the plus to 1 and then using the wand and yeah it self destructed 07:16:57 <09gammafunk> yep, I've noticed that you can still make chargless wands in wizard mode 07:18:06 <06mumra> yeah i was aware of the stacking changes but not the specifics of picking up items 07:18:26 <09gammafunk> %git 8cbcc1cb85 07:18:27 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.31-a0-246-g8cbcc1cb85: Give monsters infinite wand ammo (gammafunk) (11 months ago, 3 files, 11+ 50-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8cbcc1cb8576 07:18:39 <06mumra> and now i'm thinking about it, when i tested blindness i was trying to get things to pick up darts and i think it didn't work so i ended up spawning monsters carrying them instead 07:18:44 <06mumra> so it all makes sense 07:19:46 <09gammafunk> hrm, I seem to recall some restriciton of monsters wand usage in a commit but maybe I'm misremembering 07:21:32 <06mumra> (and so the check for wand charges before a monster picks it up is triply redundant and should maybe be an assert instead) 07:21:44 <09gammafunk> %git 0fff342652 07:21:44 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.29-a0-843-g0fff342652: Brutally nerf Ijyb (1 year, 11 months ago, 2 files, 4+ 7-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0fff342652f3 07:22:14 <06mumra> yeah i've seen a couple of things in code, there is also https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/51e32761ad3a52f23e44a0662aab3e21bfd6a158 07:22:16 <09gammafunk> so I guess all there was is a tuning of output from higher tier monsters 07:22:24 <09gammafunk> ah 07:22:39 <09gammafunk> oh, that's an old one 07:22:45 <06mumra> because grinder specifically is not allowed to use "high tier wands" (which disagrees slightly with the opinion of "high tier wands" observed by the give_wand code) 07:23:26 <09gammafunk> yeah I wonder if that flag is sane with respect to our current wand set 07:25:56 <06mumra> yeah i think it can be easily removed if monster::likes_wand is also adjusted to be a bit more comprehensible and less dependent on the player-centric valuation of wands 07:28:15 <06mumra> and also use it to make monsters not like wands that are too strong as well as too weak 07:31:48 <06mumra> %git a655056 07:31:48 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.17-a0-427-ga655056720: Don't give Cerebov a wand of flame (9 years ago, 3 files, 43+ 2-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a6550567208b 08:23:27 <06pleasingfungus> lmao i didn’t remember that was my fault 09:06:19 <09gammafunk> brutal cerebov nerfs 09:35:04 <06mumra> There's a nice comment from you here as well 09:35:07 <06mumra> %git 561ffd6 09:35:08 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.27-a0-1340-g561ffd6492: Allow monsters to wand each other (2 years, 11 months ago, 1 file, 9+ 6-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/561ffd6492b4 09:35:13 <06mumra> // Yes, there is a logic to this ordering {dlb}: // (no there's not -- pf) 09:45:03 <06pleasingfungus> i do remember that one 09:45:09 <06pleasingfungus> seriously, there’s not. 09:45:46 <06pleasingfungus> (dlb put that comment in a few places; it might be true somewhere, but not there) 09:47:11 I think I'd be tempted to put the 3/4 chance at the top because it's cheap 09:47:24 ("premature optimisation is the root of all evil", oops) 09:56:43 <06mumra> not sure if a call to the rng is cheaper than wand->base_type != OBJ_WANDS 09:57:34 <06mumra> the most expensive thing there is cell_see_cell but LOS is all heavily optimised and cached anyway 09:59:13 <06mumra> i feel rng should usually be deferred until after anything else that can trivially avoid it because making a roll is actually destructive in that it's consuming randomness 10:00:57 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1325-geaf9e87d58: Add Xom translucent wall/empty hands messages. 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eaf9e87d58a3 10:03:16 <06mumra> i would probably just move mons_itemuse to 2nd in the list then the order actually feels reasonably logical (Is this even an item or monster that qualifies? Do I have a target that I can see? Do I have any temporary statuses that prevent me? And finally can I pass a dice check?) 12:57:52 Has anyone tried to implement a 'possession' style race? Something like a frail ghost that can hijack an enemy body to use, if the body dies you pop out and are vulnerable until you grab a new one. Could be a fun challenge race like felid, but instead of extra lives you have to progressively swap out to stronger bodies. Not sure if there's any room 12:57:53 for new races now though 13:00:37 <06pleasingfungus> there’s room, but it seems quite difficult to implement 13:00:48 <06pleasingfungus> many monster abilities are not usable by players 13:01:10 True, I didn't consider monster abilities 13:01:55 Just saw something like that in another dungeon crawler a while back, thought it'd be a fun concept if it could be implemented in crawl 13:06:13 <06pleasingfungus> it's definitely a fun concept! 14:12:37 <08wormsofcan> we have a god for that 🤔 14:40:00 <04dracoomega> Been working on Dith writeups to go live later today 14:41:34 <04dracoomega> (Still need to tidy and squash the crap out of this local branch, but otherwise I think it should be good to go?) 14:41:44 <04dracoomega> Will be less tidy than last time, but oh well 14:42:03 <04dracoomega> Not literally everything needs to be optimal before experimental, after all ^^; 14:44:12 <08nicolae> no more dithering, then? 14:48:11 <04dracoomega> I realize that's a joke, but also I haven't really stopped for weeks 😛 14:48:56 I'd considered making that joke a few days ago but decided it was unfair for that reason 14:50:18 <04dracoomega> Your consideration is appreciated 15:39:27 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1325-geaf9e87d58 (34) 16:17:04 New branch created: pull/3852 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3852 16:17:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3852 * 0.32-a0-1316-g347112d1c9: Remove some dud comments (and fix typos) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/347112d1c95c 16:17:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3852 * 0.32-a0-1317-g1a4b993881: Remove an XXX comment 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a4b993881a0 16:17:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3852 * 0.32-a0-1318-g677c2a14dd: Revisions to monster wand usage 10(4 minutes ago, 13 files, 129+ 137-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/677c2a14dd9d 16:17:06 03mumra02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3852 * 0.32-a0-1319-ga0c92167cb: Fix display of wand damage and will chance 10(4 minutes ago, 4 files, 53+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0c92167cb28 16:18:17 <06mumra> Honestly, this ended up a lot more painful to do than anticipated 16:22:07 isn't that the story of crawl development? 16:26:25 <09gammafunk> if your crawlcode implementation feels easy, less trouble than anticipated...be very very afraid... 16:28:25 I think I've fixed two bugs involving code that seemed "easy" 16:29:20 <04dracoomega> Well, this squashing is a bit of a mess 16:30:02 <04dracoomega> Coded-but-ultimately-removed abilities that I want to excise from the history here, but which were evidently integrated around other things I want to keep - some of which were before the ability was added and some of which was afte 16:36:10 <09gammafunk> fwiw you can force push further cleanups after the branch goes live and rebuilds will work (because the experimental updater hard resets to the remote branch). That's not ideal for other devs that end up collaborating on the branch, of course, but there's usually an initial period where there's not much collaboration and people are used to dealing with some force pushes to branches 16:38:20 <09gammafunk> ebering was a big fan of git commit --fixup and leaving a lot of fixup commits to later get rebased/squashed so not as much force pushing happened 16:38:48 <09gammafunk> but that probably doesn't apply to your current situation 16:39:08 <04dracoomega> Well, the problem here is not just whether stuff does or doesn't need to be done before pushing to experimental, but rather that commits are entangled in a way that makes removing a few things from history not straightforward to do, period 16:39:23 <09gammafunk> yeah, as PleasingFungus has called it: branch hell 16:40:05 <04dracoomega> Because, more or less, I implemented melee/ranged mimic, then I added an ability that gave a temporary buff to doing shadow mimic stuff, then I added spell shadow mimic (with that buff-related code inside it) and then I replaced the buff ability with something completely different (removing it from both mimic types) 16:40:06 <09gammafunk> sometimes to fix that you actually have to make in between commits with new partial implementations of things just to make commits sane, where those things are just going to get removed or clobbered by something later 16:40:15 <09gammafunk> which gets really time consuming to do 16:40:46 <04dracoomega> Probably I manually edit the spell mimic commits to remove references to things that have otherwise been removed 'before' them 16:41:07 <04dracoomega> Though I am worried that I am messing something up in the process of all of what I'm doing here. We'll see, I suppose. 16:41:11 <04dracoomega> (Still lots more to do) 16:41:26 <09gammafunk> cleaning up history like that can easilly break things, yeah 16:42:03 <09gammafunk> I have one giant qw commit representing like 3 months or more of work that I'm going to have to split out and I'm not looking forward to that 16:49:11 <06mumra> at my current work, when we merge a feature branch the standard procedure is to just squash the whole thing into a single commit 16:50:41 <06mumra> it makes things really a lot easier but we don't care much about commit history 😂 16:56:47 <04dracoomega> Well, at the very least, there's a few refactors or adjustments to non-Dith things in here in the middle that I don't want to get lost in all this 16:56:59 <04dracoomega> (Will cherry-pick a couple things straight to master when I'm done, actually) 17:11:58 <04dracoomega> Well, I'm down to ~23 instead of ~85 17:20:09 03mumra02 07* 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f355: Add some Xom dance moves 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 13+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/795e84f35500 17:51:50 <04dracoomega> Nearly done.... 18:34:04 <04dracoomega> Running last tests of "I sure hope I haven't broken anything" 18:37:02 <04dracoomega> Hrmm... webtiles includes things 18:38:22 <06pleasingfungus> who plays that, though? :p 18:40:18 <04dracoomega> Haha 18:40:25 <04dracoomega> I mean, I am at least testing it there before pushing 😛 18:40:48 <04dracoomega> (I think some function was included via nested includes that must at some point have had a local tile #ifdef ?) 18:42:18 <04dracoomega> Though who knows where 18:48:34 <04dracoomega> Hrm... seems some dependencies for this aren't installed properly since I had to remake my WSL instance from scratch the other monh 19:01:39 <04dracoomega> Mystifying webtiles rendering code. I am just leaving this single superfluous space in one title there for now, I guess 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1316-g81263d3e2d: Remove Dith's Shadow Form ability and associated form 10(3 weeks ago, 18 files, 14+ 116-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/81263d3e2d72 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1317-g508cd269fd: Remove Dith's bleed smoke passive 10(3 weeks ago, 4 files, 0+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/508cd269fdc9 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1318-g9132f2010e: Separate the dummy monster used for god wrath from player shadows 10(3 weeks ago, 5 files, 38+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9132f2010eb0 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1319-gd3c6136e07: Rename shadows (the undead monster) to shadowghasts 10(11 days ago, 35 files, 65+ 64-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d3c6136e0775 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1320-g8c79ebc85f: Remove Dith's passive umbra, simplify umbra stealth bonus 10(2 weeks ago, 4 files, 7+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c79ebc85f7e 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1321-gf4024b8d24: Overhaul Dithmenos shadow mimic (for attacks) 10(2 weeks ago, 21 files, 520+ 193-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f4024b8d24a0 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1322-gb91bf55a4b: Replace Shadow Step with Shadowslip (new Dith 3* ability) 10(2 weeks ago, 51 files, 282+ 382-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b91bf55a4bf9 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1323-g64d7bc23c8: Slightly improve spacing in god-passive.h for clarity 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64d7bc23c8e0 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1324-g944a5c847c: Don't show a warning for moving while confused near ancestors 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/944a5c847c37 19:04:01 03DracoOmega02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1325-gb0028136e7: Remove the Noise Suppression mutation 10(13 days ago, 5 files, 6+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b0028136e786 19:04:01 ... and 14 more commits 19:04:37 <04dracoomega> @gammafunk Branch should be playable. Here is the standard announcement blurb A major overhaul of Dithmenos is now available for playtesting on CDI. Dithmenos's kit has been almost entirely overhauled. Umbra, bleed smoke, shadowstep, and shadow form are removed. Shadow mimic is significantly changed to work consistently with all forms of magic and be more consistently powerful. 3 new abilities have been added which let you decieve 19:04:38 enemies about where you're standing in order to backstab them, force enemies to cast spells as if they were your own, or hide yourself completely by reducing everyone's sight radius to 0. For a full write-up on the new abilities and how they function, see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Dithmenos-Revamp-for-0.32 Let us know how fun this new version of the god feels to play, and how interesting/powerful/useful each of the new abilities is. Since 19:04:38 Dith supports each school of magic differently, playtesting different character archetypes is especially useful. You can report any problems - whether bugs, unclear descriptions, or usability problems - in the #dcss channel, on Tavern, or directly to @DracoOmega. To play, register and log in at https://crawl.dcss.io/#lobby and click new-dith under experimentals. You can also play on console via SSH on port 22 with user crawl and using the CAO key. The 19:04:39 RC file used is that of your trunk RC, so use the trunk edit rc link to change your settings. All games played on CDI are not scored on CAO or Sequell. 19:10:04 <02Monkooky> how does one check a coordinate for solid features 19:11:05 <02Monkooky> nvm found it 19:11:07 <04dracoomega> if feat_is_solid(env.grid(pos)) 19:11:58 <02Monkooky> oh, I just used cell_is_solid 19:11:59 <09gammafunk> yeah there's cell_is_solid() 19:12:02 <09gammafunk> right 19:13:01 <04dracoomega> There... there is? 19:13:12 <04dracoomega> Is that less boilerplate? 😛 19:14:59 <09gammafunk> the good news is that both patterns are used throughout the codebase! 19:15:07 <09gammafunk> consistency is the enemy of the crawlcode 19:15:14 04Build failed for 08dith_experimental @ 8b925b93 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/9360053541 19:15:52 <09gammafunk> at least it's only tag upgrade 19:16:20 <09gammafunk> (cdi building now; hopefully it's successful) 19:17:30 <09gammafunk> taking the time to appreciate some of our lesser-known crawl source file names 19:17:52 <09gammafunk> e.g. CXX dgn-irregular-box.o 19:18:59 03Monkooky02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3775 * 0.32-a0-1082-g336b54360c: Don't expand onto solid terrain 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/336b54360c9f 19:20:19 <04dracoomega> Yeah, I did actually run fulldebug tests beforehand 19:20:26 <09gammafunk> > All games played on CDI are not scored on CAO or Sequell. Guess that part of the "template" is a bit stale, but just have to explicitely mention that it only applies to the experimental 19:20:29 <04dracoomega> But tag upgrade stuff is... tricky >.> 19:20:37 <04dracoomega> Oh, haha 19:20:38 <04dracoomega> Oops 19:20:47 <04dracoomega> Copy and paste from the last time. I didn't even notice 19:20:53 <09gammafunk> no, yeah, perfectly fine 19:21:48 <09gammafunk> I'm also externally labeling the experimental as "Dithmenos Rework" in terms of the link/menu, so there were going to be some quick edits regardles (but new-dith is used in the short game name in lobby etc) 19:22:19 <04dracoomega> Sure 19:25:15 <09gammafunk> really not sure why e.g. Beargit can have their game idle 127 hours...I thought I had advil's change to prevent such long idle times 21:01:33 03dolorous02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1340-g8ab185e5da: Remove obsolete reference to evil Dith. 10(85 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ab185e5da9d 21:01:33 03dolorous02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1341-gee9afe91ed: Fix typos, punctuation, and spelling. 10(83 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ee9afe91ed0f 21:01:33 03dolorous02 07[dith_experimental] * 0.32-a0-1342-g782fa806ca: Fix tag_upgrade build. 10(37 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/782fa806ca31 21:12:16 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-667-g9575ccdd66: Remove the requirement to build the contribs first in MSVC 10(3 months ago, 15 files, 4141+ 3951-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9575ccdd663c 21:36:25 <08nicolae> look, if nobody else is going to go for the low-hanging fruit, nicolae will. that's a promise and a guarantee. 22:22:46 03Wizard Ike02 {Isaac Clancy} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1327-g3c1389bbd2: Fix the MSVC build 10(3 months ago, 21 files, 277+ 184-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c1389bbd219 22:22:46 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1328-gd4ae44f003: Remove the requirement to build the contribs first in MSVC 10(3 months ago, 15 files, 4141+ 3951-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4ae44f003ac 22:22:46 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1329-g48bf105d8d: Add mon-aura.cc to the MSVC build 10(66 seconds ago, 2 files, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/48bf105d8df5 22:35:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f355 (34) 22:45:10 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1330-g556e677c2b: Fix MSVC doing full rebuilds on minor changes 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/556e677c2be2 22:47:19 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1330-ge5ed590bf6: Fix MSVC doing full rebuilds on minor changes 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5ed590bf65e 22:53:43 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1330-g8738a2ab65: Fix MSVC doing full rebuilds on minor changes 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8738a2ab659b 22:54:48 03Isaac Clancy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3647 * 0.32-a0-1330-g70e453f4b3: Fix MSVC doing full rebuilds on minor changes 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 24+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/70e453f4b372 22:58:22 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f355 23:12:54 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f355 (34) 23:55:04 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1326-g795e84f355