03:33:06 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6
04:15:37 -!- Changesite1 is now known as Changesite
05:05:17 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1322-gc7fbda7099: Try to avoid an infinite handle_monsters loop with Hellfire Mortar 10(50 seconds ago, 2 files, 9+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c7fbda70996b
05:05:17 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1323-g251a44db69: Don't give XP for killing hellfire mortars 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/251a44db696f
05:07:58 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1321-g432df90 (34)
05:10:27 <Discord|> <12a​sciiphilia> @gammafunk I would like to see the nginx configuration file for the CDI server. Is the configuration posted on GitHub?
06:33:39 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> It's very similar to cko's configuration, which floraline posted in a repo. I can link said repo in a bit, but you can find from his github account
06:43:53 <Discord|> <12a​sciiphilia> Is this the repo: https://github.com/kelbi-org/dgamelaunch-config/tree/cko ? I'm not sure if I found the right one, as I don't see the nginx configuration.
09:02:41 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> Hrm, maybe the repo is no longer available
10:10:21 <NotCheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3843 * 0.32-a0-1323-g84f3cb2b01: Spelling (oops) 10(7 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/84f3cb2b0170
12:17:19 <NotCheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 {dolorous} 07* 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f: Make various small improvements to ability summary on ^ screen 10(28 hours ago, 2 files, 62+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e68aa8d9f50
15:03:38 <Lantell> IceHockeyTabber (L20 FoFi) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D (Sprint))
15:21:04 <Gretell> TheCrane (L3 GrEE) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:1)
15:39:46 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f (34)
15:43:56 <Discord|> <06m​umra> Bug spotted: seems "chance to defeat your will" is incorrect for monsters with wands, it's using their normal spellcasting power but monsters use a totally different power formula for wands
15:44:40 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Makes sense. (Showing wand spells is a pretty new UI thing)
15:47:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I mean, it ought to also be fixed, obviously :P)
15:50:47 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yeah i'm looking at how that might even be done, it's slightly difficult at that point to actually know that the spell came from a wand
15:51:20 <Discord|> <06m​umra> needs a field adding to spellbook_contents really to indicate the source of the spells
15:59:15 <Discord|> <06m​umra> (wanted to add a "yaktaur fusilier" carrying a high-tier wand and a hand cannon for some further variation to yaktaur bands, and also another potential source of blindness, but realised the wand strength is rather limited for monster evokers so wanted to give them a power boost as well)
16:02:00 <Discord|> <06m​umra> i had an idea for a player affecting version of charm wand as well, but wondering if anyone had any pre-existing ideas around that?
16:03:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Actually, I had been surprised at some point in past about just how badly monster wands scale at later levels and wondering if that's even a good thing for the game to work that way
16:04:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Whether or not it would be more interesting if they just didn't stop existing or being relevant past early-ish game
16:07:13 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yeah the formula just scales badly, it'd be easier to give them rather more power
16:07:40 <Discord|> <06m​umra>      const int splpow = evoke ? 30 + mons->get_hit_dice()                              : mons_spellpower(*mons, spell_cast);
16:08:51 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Like, player wands also scale less well than spells and tend to be stronger earlier in the game, but not to the point of becoming so universally overshadowed that there aren't relevant cases. I mean, maybe the argument is that as monsters get more powerful spells of their own that you want to have less reuse of effects that are most relevant earlier in the game, but it seems there would still be some space for combinatorics of wand
16:08:51 <Discord|> effects on different monsters later on
16:09:30 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (What did you have in mind for anti-player Charming, by the way? It just being confusion isn't the greatest, but I've never specifically put my mind to it)
16:11:29 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yeah hence i thought having a yaktaur with special wand affinity could add some nice support for the bands without coming up with entire new effects
16:18:07 <Discord|> <06m​umra> so there are two slightly different versions i'm thinking of, not quite sure which is best, although leaning towards the 2nd. in either version the idea is that whatever charms you it affects you for everything of the same genus, so works great for band monsters.  then in the first version: you get a roll against will per monster, and it re-rolls each turn; and anything you fail the check for, you literally cannot attack that turn. any
16:18:08 <Discord|> action that might hurt them you're completely prevented from doing so. so it doesn't leave you completely without options, you can attack some of a pack, but some targets maybe in a turn or two you'll be able to attack them on a better roll.  the other variation of this, the game shows everything as "fake friendly", and instead you get a roll against will when you attempt to attack something. maybe if you fail the roll it even hurts you, as you
16:18:08 <Discord|> "turn the attack against yourself rather than hurt your 'friend' "
16:18:39 <Discord|> <06m​umra> something like this rough idea anyway, would probably fill in some details actually trying out an implementation
16:19:23 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Lots of band monsters aren't the same genus, though. (I mean, lots are, but...)
16:20:43 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I'd probably rather a simpler option of being unable to deliberately hurt enemies while 'charmed', but it's actually really hard to tell whether a given action by the player could theoretically hurt something or not
16:21:26 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I don't think a will-resistible status needs additional will checks on an ongoing basis and certainly not per-target. You already have a status effect - live with it)
16:22:06 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i’d bet a good bit that the current wand scaling is simulationist (vaguely following evo skill), rather than aimed at a gameplay outcome
16:22:18 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Simply not being able to attack is straightforward as a downside, I suppose)
16:22:42 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> "Can't bring yourself to hurt them with your own hands" (but spells are nice and impersonal??)
16:22:47 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> a monster of hd 15 is like an xl 15 creature, which would probably have 8 evo skill… or something like that
16:22:52 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Yeah, I can buy it
16:23:18 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It's kind of funny how even deliberately trying to give wands to higher HD creatures with vault spec just silently fails
16:23:25 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since they don't want it
16:23:27 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> yes
16:24:25 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Hmmm... I wonder if some of the logic of stronger monsters not bothering might also have been grounded in "It'll be a weaker effect, so don't have them constantly empty the player's charges"?
16:24:30 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Which doesn't matter anymore either
16:27:22 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Even if they still scaled relatively less strongly than monster's own spells, I think there's probably some room for monsters occasionally using some utility effect when they don't have anything else to do.
16:28:39 <geekosaur> there may be some limits there. players almost revolted over monsters using up wands of digging BITD
16:30:03 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Do monsters even using digging wands at all right now? Somehow I don't remember ever seeing it
16:30:18 <Discord|> <06m​umra> i'd assumed it was on the side of, "it's such a weak effect, no point monsters wasting a turn doing something that won't affect the player" but didn't thinking about the charges
16:30:30 <geekosaur> no, it's blocked these days
16:30:32 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, monsters don't use up charges from wands anymore
16:30:37 <Discord|> <06m​umra> the wand giving code also re-rolls until it gets not a digging wand
16:30:38 <geekosaur> that's kinda the point
16:31:46 <Discord|> <06m​umra> another weirdness is that even if you give a monster always_wand, the "do i like a wand" code returns false for all wand types if the monster is hd 10 or above. so those monsters will get the first wand that rolls even if it's a low tier one
16:32:28 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Yes, wands of digging are explicitly blocked. (I looked it up when adding the goblin sharper to that overflow temple; if the goblin generated with a wand of digging, it could dig itself out of the glass.)
16:33:09 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Speaking of wands, I never did get back to run proper math on the blindness formula changes since I've had my head buried like 99% in Dith for weeks now, but I was musing over it again this morning and still kind of wonder at a much conceptually simpler formula of just 'a flat additional miss chance based on distance' rather than having a baked-in relationship to monster EV. Like (30% flat miss chance at range 1, increasing by 15%
16:33:09 <Discord|> with each additional step, up to 90%. So 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 90, 90, etc.)  (I admit I haven't actually run numbers on whatever new thing you changed it to in the meantime, mumra, and I do apologize)
16:39:54 <Discord|> <06m​umra> it's pretty hard to actually stop them finding some way to hurt them yes. preventing ranged and melee more straightforward, and maybe making your allies also see them as new "friends"? but i also thought it's potentially bad to put the player in the situation of "well there's nothing you can do here except run away" while is why i was thinking like a battle will your own will where you can't always attack (and in that case yeah probably
16:39:54 <Discord|> remove the initial will check)
16:42:09 <Discord|> <06m​umra> it's definitely simpler that way although with the current formula i quite like how it results in enemies with different EV having more differentiated effects
16:42:13 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Maybe the charming lures you several steps closer to the enemy that charms you to start with, so at least you're in a worse position to run away?
16:43:18 <geekosaur> that just sounds like mesmerise as a wand
16:43:30 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Does it?
16:43:33 <Discord|> <06m​umra> was about to say something like that
16:44:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Being close to enemies that you can't attack but can run away from feels almost the opposite of mesmerise, surely?
16:47:03 <geekosaur> hm, I guess I interpreted "worse position to run away" differently than you intended
16:47:37 <Memoria> alternatively has shades of the fear status, both in the upside of having relevant code and rules to reuse and the downside of potential overlap
16:47:44 <geekosaur> maybe because about the only position that really seems worse wrt. "run away" is ussually right next to the monster, unless they have a ranged attack or blink nearer
16:48:05 <geekosaur> er, blink closer
16:48:21 <Memoria> (the no-attack part more than the move-closer part, that is)
16:50:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It was just a quick thought. (I do think 'no attacks' is a simple status with some interesting ramifications, but it does admittedly some issues with "Well, you can just leave, can't you?")
16:51:23 <Memoria> I think the example of fear proves that's at least presently accepted (assuming fear is considered functional as is)
16:53:19 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It helps that all the users of that have some other way to project ranged force (and it doesn't need open line of fire, thus increasing the chance there may be other things in the way, already causing problems for the player)
16:53:28 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Compared to a wand on some random enemy
16:54:58 <Memoria> it *is* more controlled in circumstance to ensure it works (I wonder what other monster-usable wands, if any, may or may not be iffy in the wrong monster's hands)
16:55:54 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Imagining now if the 'walk towards monster thing' lasted however long it took for you to take damage
16:56:08 <Memoria> (I checked, only status monster plus quicksilver feels eh)
16:56:51 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> So if it's on a solo melee only monster, you do walk all the way up for them to smack you. If there's other ranged things around, you get disrupted less in the short-term, but clearly have more things that can punish you.
16:57:08 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> If you just try to leave
16:58:59 <Discord|> <06m​umra> hmm that sounds like something of a middle ground yeah
17:04:37 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Currently testing dozens upon dozens of spell interactions because this what I've brought upon myself
17:05:11 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> And finding fun bugs like "The visual indicator about whether Awaken Forest was hostile or not is never marshalled, so if you load a save with angry trees, the game will always claim they're friendly."
17:06:00 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Or "Monster Cause Fear checks underlying attitudes instead of base attitudes, so if you charm a satyr, it can only fear your real allies and not any of its former ones"
17:09:16 <Discord|> <06m​umra> (btw in a week i'm going abroad and will have fairly limited time for a month ... would be good to see about merging blindness in before if possible ... other than tweaking the formula you also mentioned wanting to add something maybe using bolt of light. i made a silverfish zin creature using the wall monster code i'm also working on - the only thing about bolt of light is the damage is really rather strong for an early game monster so
17:09:16 <Discord|> this would probably sit around post-lair D. the wall monster stuff itself is not quite ready, it's mostly working well, there are just a handful of spells that still need fixing to target walls, particularly ones that make clouds are a bit of issue that i didn't decide how to handle yet, but maybe cloud spells just not working on wall creatures is a reasonable advantage for them to have)
17:10:20 <Discord|> <06m​umra> then you would have rockfish, and silverfish, and if you wanted a third fish pun you could have a goldfish of TSO or gozag 😉
17:10:23 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, not being able to place clouds in walls just feels like how clouds should actually work
17:10:28 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yeah
17:10:36 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> This feels seperate of being able to shoot/punch them
17:10:50 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Did you get that working, by the way?)
17:11:01 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yeah everything else is working
17:11:07 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Good, good
17:11:41 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I am really hoping to have Dith ready for experimental in another day or so)
17:11:47 <Discord|> <06m​umra> and having beams able to shoot them but not carry on going through the wall on the other side
17:12:02 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, I said that a few days ago, but it still holds ^^;
17:12:29 <Discord|> <06m​umra> and if it's a thrown item leave it on the floor before the wall. and various other weird interactions (oh yes, bouncing beams..)
17:12:57 <Discord|> <06m​umra> but for the most part there are surprisingly not that many special cases
17:13:25 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Wait, do these silverfish that go in walls also use bolt of light?
17:13:40 <Discord|> <06m​umra> yes
17:13:48 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Hmmm... wondering what I think about that
17:14:34 <Discord|> <06m​umra> they have a "spit silver" ranged attack so they take advantage of the blindness
17:14:54 <Discord|> <06m​umra> but, there isn't much advantage they're getting by being in the walls
17:15:17 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I know some of my nebulous partially-formed plans in that regard involved giving it to a Peri as a holy monster, but other parts of kit and placement was never hammered down. Meant to get to it at some point)
17:15:41 <Discord|> <06m​umra> it's interesting for melee monsters that can surround you but yeah for this silverfish it's just flavour
17:16:03 <Discord|> <06m​umra> alternately they could melee you and use dazzling flash and allow other stuff with ranged attacks to press the advantage
17:16:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> There were a handful of 'heal/regenerate allies' and that 'can only be damaged in melee range' effect competing with each other, since certainly the latter and blindness don't make sense together (but also whatever has that sort of shield probably wants a ranged threat of some kind)
17:17:08 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Also kind of liked the idea of some lower-level holies suited for Shoals, but had already thought of just giving blindness to skysquid ink there, so they can't both be doing that)
17:18:02 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Regarding monsters inside walls: could a "walleye" be interpreted as a fish that could swim inside walls, or would it be better suited as a type of eyeball that could move inside walls (horrible pun, I know)?
17:18:04 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Basically, a vague swirl of workable concepts that needed the details split out
17:20:35 <Discord|> <06m​umra> it's one i didn't think of, and it could be either really 🙂
17:21:01 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Good to know. Just a thought 🙂
17:24:04 <Discord|> <06m​umra> the other wall monsters i had (for later D/Depths) are (mobile) lichen bands, with a couple of specialised types: a lichen "jaws" which has a vampiric regenerate allies ability (implemented as an AF_COMPOST bite, basically it's composting you and passing nutrients through mycelia to its lichen allies), and an eyestalk lichen with an area effect of letting other lichen bypass your AC
17:24:56 <Discord|> <06m​umra> so the basic lichen have a pretty weak attack but combined with an eyestalk and surrounding you in a corridor can get really scary
17:27:00 <Discord|> <06m​umra> also a version of the mossbeast from regret's notes which is early D and sheds small numbers of lichen. so they're something which can be threatening in small numbers early on, and much later can be threatening again in sufficient numbers with that the right support
17:27:32 <Discord|> <06m​umra> what is a Peri sorry?
17:28:05 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peri
17:29:07 <Discord|> <06m​umra> oh a sort of fairy
17:35:49 <Discord|> <06m​umra> (i'm also thinking we don't need a soecific blinding monster yet to merge the intrastructure, esp if we relaxed wand restrictions and improved the scaling so wands of light come into play a bit more? could also add some weighting for the wand types so only the more relevant ones show up later on)
17:37:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> We don't. I guess at the time, since I knew I planned to do so, it felt appropriate to debut it with something beyond just wands (which then helps with player familiarity with the effect and such), but I guess it doesn't have to be a blocker.
17:38:41 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I hadn't even exactly planned to start work on Dith when I did, but I'd repeatedly seen conversations bemoaning Dith's present state in #dcss again the other week and was like "Okay, I guess I should finally get to that" ^^; )
17:39:45 <Lantell> IceHockeyTabber (L20 FoFi) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D (Sprint))
18:53:06 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/3850 (49 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-517-g2ca90a6665: Update salamander.png, cerulean_imp.png, and 24 more files... 10(3 months ago, 26 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ca90a6665d2
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-518-gf698bcf748: Update orc_apostle_priest1.png, orc_apostle_warrior1.png, and 6 more files... 10(3 months ago, 8 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f698bcf74833
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-538-g879b5ff21f: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/879b5ff21f7e
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-540-gce3e9a9805: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/Ploomutoo/crawl.git 10(3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce3e9a9805a0
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-548-gea09486988: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea094869887a
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-549-ga88b548c03: gobold 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a88b548c0318
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03Eggdude1102 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-550-g207128cada: Fattens ynoxinul, molten gargoyle, and war gargoyle 10(3 months ago, 3 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/207128cadac4
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-551-gde8cf2f98d: Update ancestor.png, ancestor_battlemage.png, and 2 more files... 10(3 months ago, 4 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de8cf2f98d73
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-584-g8329cf5a23: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8329cf5a23fe
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> 03perci02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3850 * 0.32-a0-595-g625de0b1b9: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/625de0b1b95f
18:53:29 <NotCheibriados> ... and 39 more commits
19:21:14 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> A very silly piece of code that I have somehow never noticed or known about before C++ // [ds] Increase piety cost for god abilities that are particularly // overpowered in Sprint. Yes, this is a hack. No, I don't care. static int _scale_piety_cost(ability_type abil, int original_cost) {     // Abilities that have aroused our ire earn 2.5x their classic     // Crawl piety cost.     return (crawl_state.game_is_sprint()             &&
19:21:14 <Discord|> (abil == ABIL_TROG_BROTHERS_IN_ARMS                 || abil == ABIL_MAKHLEB_GREATER_SERVANT_OF_MAKHLEB))            ? div_rand_round(original_cost * 5, 2)            : original_cost; }
19:21:43 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I don't think this is indicated anywhere in the UI either, is it?
20:18:55 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> lmao
20:19:00 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> probably not!
22:35:28 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f (34)
22:58:33 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f
23:13:46 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f (34)
23:55:24 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1324-g5e68aa8d9f