03:32:08 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 04:36:33 <06mumra> Yeah I also don't see that people would use this form just to use up their pile of large rocks, assuming it has enough else going on, but that's really what needs defining is what does it do other than being able to use items that 3 species already can do? Like what might be reasons why those species might still want to use this form? 04:54:37 <06mumra> (Not that it's strictly necessary for every form to be useful to every species, but still, as a probably high-level form I think it needs something else to set it apart) 05:06:54 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1295-ga78d4ba (34) 08:22:28 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1296-gc984cbb1ce: Add another Xom shallow water option. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c984cbb1ce99 08:31:00 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1297-g45592c0896: Move Xom's divine lightning msgs to the database. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45592c089669 08:43:49 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1298-g157a17335d: Add another dance name to Xom messages. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/157a17335db6 08:44:16 <06dolorous_84348> And with that, I have officially Xommed myself out for awhile. 09:04:36 <06mumra> waltz, tango, macarena 😉 09:06:12 New branch created: pull/3832 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3832 09:06:13 03beeceropteryx02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3832 * 0.32-a0-1298-g2117002bb8: Smooth out stat modifiers for weapon/unarmed damage 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2117002bb895 09:31:49 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1299-gae95028895: Revert "Make living spells count as 'conjured'" 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ae950288951b 09:33:58 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1300-gcf91537885: Revert "Prevent enemies from summoning in Okawaru's Arena" 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf9153788549 10:16:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> Having just woken up and having the debate for the above commit explained to me, I'm not really sure why Duel has been kept around in general if it's an inherently majorly complex effect that in effect just exists to let people cram down potions of heal wounds / ambrosia on a long delay or work around about half of TRJ's spawns. 10:25:12 <12asciiphilia> @gammafunk I found an interesting build while browsing the CDI server's archive. What is it? https://crawl.dcss.io/crawl/meta/crawl-bot-git/ 10:41:18 <09gammafunk> Ah, for the last couple years I've been developing qw heavily (see ??qw and https://github.com/crawl/qw), and that special installation was to run qw on CDI that its games could be tracked but not track games for any other user. CDI was formerly a development-only server not tracked by Sequell or CAO scoring, so I needed a separate installation that I could add to Sequell/CAO scoring but not have this installation available to other 10:41:18 users on the server. So I extended the dgamelaunch-config scripts to have a notion of a "bot" user and a bot installation. The user designation was necessary to allow qw to be launched with slightly different options so that it could disable the lua throttle and have more memory available to clua. And then the launcher only allowed the bot installation to be launched if the user was a bot user. Now that CDI is tracked officially, I no longer use the 10:41:18 separate bot installation like the one you linked. I just run qw off of trunk (or whatever stable version), but I do use the bot user to launch it with those special args for lua 10:42:12 <02Monkooky> I really don't think this is correct at all? Duel is hugely useful. It exists to kill one guy safely, and also cram down potions of heal wounds/ambrosia 10:42:46 <09gammafunk> This hasn't been published to our official dgamelaunch-config repo, since I'm the only one using this functionality, but I will publish it to the repo soon. Not sure it would be useful for you at all, except possibly as an example to how to add new DGL user flags and set up a custom launcher etc. You have to be careful about adding new dgl user flags because webtiles also looks at these flags to determine things like admin users, so 10:42:46 you don't want to use a flag that could conflict with this 10:42:51 <02Monkooky> but the kill one guy safely part is really the meat of it 10:44:35 <09gammafunk> Additionally I've extended the scripts to have a notion of a "wizard" user that has lesser priveleges than an admin user, but does get the -wizard option added to its launch arguments so that this type of user can run wizard mode. I used this on CDI when it was development-only, for longtime users who helped us a lot with testing things. But now that CDI is an official user I've disabled such wizard users for now, since they might 10:44:35 inadvertantly cause cpu issues through wizard mode 10:44:48 <09gammafunk> Wizard mode isn't really designed to be sane in terms of cpu on a production server 10:45:07 <09gammafunk> Maybe if we had good usage of something like linux cgroups we could allow it 10:45:34 <09gammafunk> Would be neat to look into something like that, but I'm not familiar with those setups 10:46:38 <09gammafunk> Conceivably we could do things with linux cgroups just in general to prevent individual users from hogging cpu/memory resources, but again I don't know the limitations of those sorts of setups nor the best practices for making them 10:46:52 <09gammafunk> Probably way longer of an answer than you wanted! 10:50:56 <12asciiphilia> Ah, so it was a bot-specific server configuration. Interesting. A long time ago (probably over 5 years ago), I briefly used a bot that played Crawl automatically through Lua scripting. I remember being impressed by how quickly the bot could kill monsters compared to humans. However, it seemed to put a lot of strain on the server, so I stopped using it after a few tries. 10:51:06 <12asciiphilia> A dedicated bot server would certainly avoid such issues. It sounds like a good solution. 10:51:12 <12asciiphilia> Regarding wizard mode, some Korean players have expressed interest in running it on a public server rather than a personal Crawl build. They want to conduct experiments and test features or damage while everyone can watch together. This is quite intriguing. 10:54:06 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1301-g0fe9cc0fda: Only do Xom dances if you can wear boots. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0fe9cc0fda4f 10:55:18 <06dolorous_84348> If you want to add those, feel free 🙂 11:06:05 <09gammafunk> Well, to be clear in this case: I run qw currently on CDI, but to prevent high cpu I use delay feature to wait 100 or 200ms between actions. It still uses more cpu than an average user, but it won't utilize 100% cpu of a vcpu that way. 11:08:27 <09gammafunk> Yes, it was very convenient for those longtime community members I granted wizmode for when CDI was only for development. However its possible for wizard mode users to do weird things that take up a lot of cpu, so if the server has normal users just trying to play the game, it's not advised to hand out wizard mode to people who aren't careful 11:09:57 <09gammafunk> On our public servers now, we generally only have admin users who are the server owner and then people who are on the dev team. And we on the dev team mostly use that for rebuilds and don't mess around with wizard mode much 11:12:59 <12asciiphilia> Why do you use wizard mode for rebuilds? Does it mean the same as using it to catch bugs? 11:14:08 <12asciiphilia> Does wizard mode include any build-related features? 11:17:48 <09gammafunk> No, wizard mode isn't related to rebuilds. However admin users (who have a specific flag user flag in the user sqlit3 database that is checked by the dgl launcher script and by webtiles itself) are given access both to the rebuild urls and wizard mode. 11:18:15 <09gammafunk> Whereas the wizard users (who use a different flag value) only got access to wizard mode and not to rebuild urls (or anything else) 11:18:51 <09gammafunk> The rebuild urls are simple cgi scripts run via the webserver, completely outside of webtiles, and they are just front ends that call the dgl rebuild script with appropriate arguments 11:19:23 <12asciiphilia> maybe trigger-rebuild.pl? 11:19:25 <09gammafunk> So I'm saying that us admin users, who are typically just the server owner and dev team members, don't use wizard mode 11:19:29 <09gammafunk> yes 11:19:52 <09gammafunk> *we don't use wizard mode very much, since we don't want to cause server issues 11:20:30 <09gammafunk> trigger-rebuild.py is run via apache or nginx as a cgi script and lets the user select a version to rebuild. It's only made available to admin users 11:20:50 <09gammafunk> er, trigger-rebuild.pl 11:24:46 <06pleasingfungus> i mean, it’s extremely cool 11:26:22 <02Monkooky> honestly you could ban healing in duel and it'd still be worthwhile 11:26:40 <02Monkooky> (though much less so and much less often) 11:29:26 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> fwiw I strongly suspect that the average player doesn't use duel correctly enough for its existence to be a net positive for their survival chances 11:29:38 <06pleasingfungus> good 11:29:57 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> there are a LOT of deaths inside duel arena 11:31:02 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I don't think that's necessarily a problem, there are probably other abilities that are similarly hard to use too) 11:31:53 <06pleasingfungus> also, if we think that the 'safe' way to use duel isn't that interesting, then really we should be happy if players are mostly using it 'unsafely' 11:32:23 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'm not personally a huge fan of duel's design but my impression is that people generally find it cool 11:33:03 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I also don't have an opinion as to whether it blocking enemy summons makes it more or less cool) 11:34:33 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> oh, you even already mentioned the cool factor, I hadn't seen that specific line from 10 minutes ago 😛 11:35:54 <02Monkooky> here's a thought- on duel completion revert to pre-duel hp/mp 11:37:50 <02Monkooky> stops the 'duel as a chance to chug' use cases, makes it noticeably stronger when used to actually separate out a meaningful part of a fight 11:38:16 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> in addition to blocking summoning, or without that? 11:39:13 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I sort of like it, though there are going to be some details to work out with effects that change maxhp/maxmp - I guess can just keep the same ratio of hp/maxhp probably? 11:39:57 <02Monkooky> I think it's worthwhile independant of summon blocking, and also makes the summon blocking much less problematic- so, no real opinion on interaction summon blocking 11:40:43 <02Monkooky> yeah this makes sense. Might be some weirdness with death's door too 11:41:35 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yes, start ddoor right before leaving the arena 11:42:06 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> though possibly ddoor's weirdnesses would already handle that attempt at abuse, not sure 11:42:28 <09hellmonk> ddoor could just block the healing in that case, probably? 11:42:32 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yeah 11:42:44 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I think ddoor already blocks most healing 11:42:57 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> so depending on implementation of the hp reversion you might get it for free 11:43:03 <09hellmonk> consistent w/ other ddoor mechanics and you'd only really want to cast ddoor there to abuse it 11:43:29 <09hellmonk> I think the only ddoor healing that works is revivification 11:43:38 <09hellmonk> Unless something else got added recently 11:43:58 <09hellmonk> and that is ofc special cased to paralyze you when you do it 11:44:32 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> one thing I like about HP reversion is that it lets us do something like have oka heal you or give you increased regen or something inside the arena without it affecting outside 11:44:33 <02Monkooky> Hm. It would be really strong to ddoor to win the fight, with the intention that ddoor would expire before the hp reversion hits 11:45:07 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I guess that could be a thing too if durations are controllable enough, sure 11:45:54 <09hellmonk> I wonder if it's much of a problem though 11:45:56 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I don't remember enough how deterministic various things are to know whether that's practical 11:46:13 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> so would tend not to worry about it unless people report it's practical 11:46:23 <06pleasingfungus> door oka tech sounds somewhat limited for a few reasons 11:46:26 <09hellmonk> or at least, if it's more of a problem than casting ddoor and then going upstairs 11:46:35 <09hellmonk> after killing some guys 11:47:12 <09hellmonk> you have duel access more frequently but also you have to cast a level 9 spell with oka 11:47:25 <09hellmonk> idk 11:47:30 <06pleasingfungus> oka heroism helps you by increasing your armour skill 11:47:34 <06pleasingfungus> it's synergy 11:47:37 <09hellmonk> true! 11:47:53 <09hellmonk> This will be great for my fds muhu 11:48:09 <06pleasingfungus> this post was fact checked by real MiFi patriots 11:52:40 <09hellmonk> I guess another way to think about this tech is that it turns duel into a "kill any one monster for free" ability if you can cast and successfully time the duration of a level 9 spell 11:53:20 <09hellmonk> which is strong but probably not game breaking, since there are other conditional kill monster abilities 11:53:36 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> possibly we could just make killing the monster in arena instantly kick you out of arena 11:53:59 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> since I think the delay is mainly intended to give you some chance to heal... 11:54:58 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> and then the timing would be impossible or near-impossible anyway 11:55:20 <09hellmonk> Yeah that would work 11:55:36 <02Monkooky> would want to drop anything on the arena floor at your feet- throwables etc 11:56:10 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> oka folds up the entire arena into a paper bag at your feet, yeah 11:56:29 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I had also forgotten about monster loot) 11:58:57 <06mumra> could also revert all durations to their pre-duel conditions as well (although i immediately think this would be problematic for various effects) 11:58:59 <03semi_tonal> the delay is pretty much just supposed to be for looting yeah, i think i shortened it substantially from whatever it was initially at one point so sounds fine to shorten it further 11:59:19 <03semi_tonal> it was just easier to do that than move the loot back out of the arena with you or whatever, that'd also be an option though 11:59:37 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I thought about durations but it sounds a lot more likely to cause issues yeah 11:59:45 <06mumra> so it's like "that just happened in a branch of time that never really existed" 12:00:24 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> since we have lots of duration-related things stored in player props and such too... 12:00:56 <06mumra> yeah exactly 12:01:07 <06mumra> so revert props and well and cause loads of other side effect issues 12:01:44 <04dracoomega> I'm not sure that would really be necessary in most cases anyway? Like, reverting health is already a big enough deal that if you somehow manage to carry some buff from inside the Duel outside, does it matter? 12:02:02 <04dracoomega> It seems a considerably more marginal usage 12:02:29 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'd suggest just trying the "restore HP/MP ratios" thing on its own, maybe alongside some minor buff on entering the arena (boosted regen or a free heal wounds effect or something), and only worry about ddoor abuse or shortening the delay on return or whatever if those things seem important to address? 12:03:43 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (I want some minor buff on entering the arena because it will at least make it less sad when I see players use duel on a monster that is essentially on its own already) 12:06:01 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> (or when people use it when almost dead instead of teleporting or whatever) 12:08:33 <06mumra> crazy idea: okawaru grants you an "avatar of okawaru" who you control for the course of the duel, with whatever properties we want to assign them, if they die you die but otherwise your player is kept safe and untouched 😂 (yes probably far into the realms of impossible to implement) 12:13:01 <04dracoomega> That feels rather against the spirit of Okawaru, anyway, imo 12:13:08 <04dracoomega> If you aren't even allowed to have a buddy at any point 12:14:17 <04dracoomega> But some sort of bonus for starting a duel would be nice - honestly even just instant healing feels like it might be pretty nice. Get the option to be like "You wouldn't be able to handle me when I was healthy!" and get a do-over on something 😛 12:14:18 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> more on theme to place you in the arena and reward you for going there yourself, yeah 12:14:42 <06mumra> i'd think of it more like ... an exosuit that you are controlling rather than an actual summon .. but yeah point taken 12:14:57 <04dracoomega> (And then you can't use it for out of duel healing, but it does give you a better shot at it being correct to try and duel something scary if you're not in a great spot) 12:15:32 <06mumra> it was more a flight of fancy (but maybe an interesting idea for another god in a different context) 15:36:49 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1301-g0fe9cc0fda (34) 17:06:49 vico (L27 GrEE) ERROR in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2466: infinite handle_monsters() loop, mons[0 of 1] is hellfire mortar (Abyss:3) 17:10:44 !crashlog vico 17:10:45 3. vico, XL27 GrEE, T:77693 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/vico/crash-vico-20240525-000649.txt 17:15:15 <04dracoomega> I wonder what's going on there. (I had been going to say that it was possible I'd missed some corner case where it's possible that mortar's behavior code exits without using energy, but that [0 of 1] thing up there is giving me pause. Does this really mean there's no other monsters at all, somehow? That doesn't seem to match the log, though, does it?) 17:15:40 doesn't match the log, no 17:16:22 <04dracoomega> Or is that just '1 monster that still has energy to act'? 17:16:37 <04dracoomega> It might be, I guess 17:17:02 what I noticed was that the cast message seems incomplete. shouldn't it say "With a deafening crack, the ground splits apart in the path of your chthonic artillery!"? 17:17:22 or does the "rumble" message say that happened out of view somehow? 17:17:56 also it says it aimed at an entropy weaver but hit a lurking horror 17:17:57 <04dracoomega> What, I see the cast message in the log? 17:18:33 <04dracoomega> Oh, wait, am I looking too early? 17:18:49 yes, they cast it twice 17:18:59 <04dracoomega> I think what is happening there, actually, on the most recent cast is that they cancelled it to cast Shatter via quiver or something instead 17:19:08 the first had the "split" message, the second seems like it just says "The dungeon rumbles" 17:19:30 <04dracoomega> Yeah, that's shatter 17:20:10 <04dracoomega> (But really, my immediate suspicion on reviewing the hellfire code is that Abyss terrain morphing may be displacing the mortar from its intended path entirely) 17:23:03 <04dracoomega> There seems to be no protection for it being off its saved path entirely (which usually isn't possible, but may be in the Abyss) 17:23:10 that woyuld fail to surprise me 19:40:07 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 19:40:07 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 19:41:59 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1302-gd3ef473dfc: Expand Xom hair messages beyond eyebrows. 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d3ef473dfc27 21:51:12 <12asciiphilia> https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Acrawl%2Fdgamelaunch-config%200.25&type=code It seems that the files chroot/data/dgl-default.crawl-$VERSION.{macro,rc} are moved to dgldir/data within the container. However, in practice, the files in dgldir/data/crawl-$VERSION-settings/ are used in the actual service. What is the purpose of the files chroot/data/dgl-default.crawl-$VERSION.{macro,rc}? Is there a process where these files are copied 21:51:13 to dgldir/data/crawl-$VERSION-settings/? (I couldn't find any.) 21:53:13 <12asciiphilia> It seems that dgldir/data/crawl-$VERSION-settings/init.txt is the same as chroot/data/dgl-default.crawl-$VERSION.rc, hmm... 21:56:25 <12asciiphilia> If that (chroot/data/dgl-default.crawl-$VERSION.{macro,rc}) are the default values for the rc and macro of each version, I want to create a single configuration file for all versions (0.11~0.31) and copy it to each version's name for use. I'm not sure where to include this copying process. 22:35:17 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1302-gd3ef473dfc (34) 22:57:49 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1302-gd3ef473dfc 23:14:19 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1302-gd3ef473dfc (34) 23:55:23 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1302-gd3ef473dfc