00:27:30 <06mumra> Right, I hadn't even thought about where yaks actually come from ... so maybe China or Tibet make a lot of sense, along with descent from a monastic martial order 01:21:44 <06mumra> I did reach the same conclusion pretty quickly about scrolls, but does a weaponised version of amnesia sound interesting as an effect in its own right? Basically make some proportion of the player's spells unavailable. Could perhaps be an aura rather than a targetted hex; or even draining-like so you can't just run away to wait it out 02:54:41 <06mumra> !tell NormalPerson7 someone posted in Roguelikes discord, small bug with Freeze getting truncated in the damage tables 02:54:41 <06mumra> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1240240931878473749/crawl_2024-05-15_18-24-40.png?ex=6645d7e0&is=66448660&hm=3f0b9ddbe32f2f61805dbae98f2706f025ff6d9c711c7c2e6ef8ca5bd79b9270& 02:54:42 <04Cerebot> docpaisley: OK, I'll let normalperson7 know. 03:32:49 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 05:21:54 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1175-gca21d12 (34) 07:19:24 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1176-gf824865791: Add still more colours for Blorkula's dialogue. 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 72+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f824865791b3 07:20:01 <06dolorous_84348> For the record, Blorkula's non-rainbow colors are finally up to 100 entries. 08:39:19 Morgoth2127 (L3 GrMo) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D (Sprint)) 09:06:06 <07zureal> I've got a user saying that someone is creating crawl accounts on cbr2, spamming a huge number of messages and causing their game to crash. Is there a strat to deal with this particular situation? 09:09:52 <05icoson> they can disable chat (or block a specific user, but I'm guessing this is someone creating new accounts?) 09:10:02 <05icoson> you can try to ban the ip 09:10:11 <07zureal> yup, they ban, but new accounts are being created after ban 09:10:33 <07zureal> disable all chat is an option for the user? 09:11:08 <05icoson> I believe it's /block [all] 09:11:14 <05icoson> it's unfortunate as it will prevent beem from working 09:11:53 <02Monkooky> think it's worth setting up a default rate limit? I think this is the second time we've seen this problem 09:12:11 <05icoson> the bug that is being exploited was semi-reported a few weeks ago but I haven't had any time to look into it, sorry 09:12:39 <05icoson> I think for this one just a size limit for chat would do it 10:17:43 <04dracoomega> At first brush, it sounded potentially interesting, but the more I thought about it, the more it felt like it was kind of just a weaker Silence/Sap Magic that requires you to recheck your spell list every time it happens. A lot of characters that regularly use spells tend to know a lot of spells they're not regularly using (at least beyond earlygame), so it seems fairly likely that this disables things they weren't going to miss 10:17:44 anyway. Except you have to rescan your spells each time it happens, because maybe this time it hit something important. Perhaps there's some logic for consistent selection and a timescale that makes it feel meaningfully different than the other spellcasting blocking effects, but I suspect it would have to lean into that fairly hard to work. Like... I dunno, block your X highest-level spells using an XP-based timer that you had to actually work off? 10:17:44 Not sure quite what I think about that. (Then I guess that also needs protections against higher level spells that you can't realistically cast, so people don't just memorize uncastable level 9 spells to 'protect' their important lower level ones....) 10:18:55 <06dolorous_84348> What if it blocked only spells of a particular school? 10:19:22 <06mumra> Yeah was considering things along both of these lines actually 10:20:17 <06mumra> Although, memorising a "junk" level 9 spell just to make this one threat less likely to hit your primary spell, is maybe something you don't really want to waste 9 spell levels on 10:20:22 <04dracoomega> (Regarding 'debuff you work off with XP', I had in general been thinking to tinker with the current temp bad mutation system at some point, so that it was possible to inflict a specific bad mutation (or subset of them) consistently. And then use this in a few limited places for what essentially boils down to that medium-term strategic debuff that isn't nearly so much of a brief-but-overwhelming-mess that wretched stars' corruption 10:20:23 pulse currently is) 10:20:37 <04dracoomega> I think there's some potential there 10:21:46 <04dracoomega> A monster whose threat in that space is a lot more consistent and predictable, but still has some of that "I need to deal with this for a few battles until I can fix myself" dynamic 10:22:38 <04dracoomega> (Wretched stars work okay in the Abyss, but the rate at which irrelevant things mixed with dangerous things come and go is kind of dizzying and hard to keep track of) 10:24:03 <04dracoomega> Dedicated blasters may not realistically have the spell levels, but I think a lot of hybrid characters that still have spells they care about would 10:24:39 <04dracoomega> (Could just exclude spells with >X% fail from consideration by whatever logic the effect uses) 10:25:16 <04dracoomega> Which is not the most elegant, but sometimes one has to make concessions 10:39:54 <06mumra> The other option I was thinking was, as dolorous suggested, affecting all spells in your highest-trained spell school. Which would be very predictable and non-cheeseable but potentially a lot more serious impact 10:43:06 <04dracoomega> Honestly, that's kind of cute, really. There's a nice cleanness to it. 10:43:14 <04dracoomega> "You forget all about Earth Magic entirely." 10:43:23 <04dracoomega> "What's a rock again?" 10:44:03 Consumeair16 (L18 GnFi) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Shoals:4) 10:45:16 <04dracoomega> I think 'consistently hitting your highest school' is still more gameable than you think, but something like "Weighted random pick based on level, excluding skills that are more than X% lower than your highest" probably works fine. I think the player doesn't need to know the specifics, since it will still almost always hit something they've invested in (and rather than needing to check your spells, the message can say what skill is 10:45:16 hit) 10:45:29 <06mumra> The only thing then is it's basically the same as a Ru sac 10:45:49 <06mumra> Right yeah 10:47:26 <06mumra> (I made a quick test implementation already and weighted random pick based on level was already the first thing i came up with anyway, so yeah just factoring skills into the weights is straightforward) 10:47:31 <04dracoomega> I don't think it's particularly like a Ru sacrifice, even if they both disable a school 10:47:41 <04dracoomega> The context is completely different 10:47:56 <04dracoomega> Might as well say that being hit by a moth of wrath is the same as worshipping Trog 😛 10:48:22 <06mumra> Sure 🙂 10:50:40 <06mumra> Also the way I did it, it just tries to take out 1/3 of your total spell levels. So memorising more spells doesn't necessarily help anyway since it just increases the total number of spell levels that get disabled 10:51:13 <06mumra> Adding a level 9 spell could mean that one gets taken out instead of your lower level ones. On the other hand you could just lose all you low level ones when you'd have only lost one of them otherwise 10:52:15 <04dracoomega> When you said 'highest school', I assumed you meant the skill that was the highest 10:52:47 <04dracoomega> Rather than what spells you knew 10:53:08 <04dracoomega> (Training something high to dodge a debuff isn't really a concern in the way that memorizing something could be) 10:57:44 <06mumra> Yes I did mean that, as a possibility. Just saying that the simpler version just weighting based on spell level is already not that gameable (especially if spells with high fail chance were ignored as well) 10:58:59 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-1177-g2d7b844e09: feat: configurable chat message length limits for webtiles 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 21+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d7b844e09c6 11:00:06 <04dracoomega> (Incidentally, 'yaktaur scribe' probably works for me. Though to be clear, they probably should still have a crossbow instead of a staff or anything :P) 11:02:02 <04dracoomega> Also, I ought to look into whatever happened with that blind formula again... ^^; 11:03:21 <04dracoomega> I think I am finally going to get down to coding up Dith stuff for real, either today or tomorrow. Another conversation in #dcss yesterday about Dith's current state got me thinking that I really ought to tackle that before some of the forgecraft things I'd been tinkering with, tantalizing as some of those may be. 11:09:13 <06mumra> Oh definitely still a crossbow, although i felt some other minor differentiation like giving them a robe might be nice 11:09:59 <04dracoomega> Sure, seems fine 11:17:07 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1178-gf2d3ae65d4: Add yet more colours to Blorkula's dialogue. 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 64+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2d3ae65d44f 11:23:37 <06mumra> Mmm would be nice to get blindness merged ... my feeling at this point is, aside from maybe a last bit of formula tweaking, it could start getting player feedback 11:26:01 <06mumra> There's like one implementation detail I'm not quite happy with: for Manifold Assault you won't be able to see your real to hit for targets several tiles away 11:27:38 <04dracoomega> I kind of wanted an enemy actually using it, since the effect mostly doesn't exist otherwise. (Vague idea of skysquid in Shoals and/or maybe a lower-level holy that spawns during normal runs somewhere that has bolt of light and something but hadn't really fleshed that out yet). I'm not sure how much feedback it actually can get when it's only on wands on light and player ghosts, though that's still something. 11:28:08 <04dracoomega> But I hadn't really given that enough direct thought or work myself yet 11:31:19 <06mumra> Yeah. I thought about adding in a couple of vaults of "early monster with wand of light" theme just to give it a bit more use. Moon trolls ended up with dazzling flash because I was just testing it there for some reason but hardly anyone is going to see that 🙂 Tho there is a good chance of people getting it in Zot from Klowns and chaos effects 11:33:13 <04dracoomega> Oh, right 11:33:59 <04dracoomega> (I also probably want to use it as part of Dith wrath, eventually. Would be nice to get away from just summoning undead/demons, especially since I want to make Dith not be classified as evil) 11:37:13 <06mumra> I did put it on Zin and Gozag wrath as well. Zin is obvious I think, on Gozag it's meant to be like the player version of gold distraction 11:55:40 <08wormsofcan> what if the temporary spell amnesia effect also created a spellforged servitor that casts the spell 🤔 11:55:43 <06mumra> One idea about a holy: I already have these rock fish sitting in a branch pretty nearly finished, "silver fish" makes another nice play on words and can be a favourite pet of Zin 11:58:47 <06mumra> Sort of like they're sucking the spell out of you and turning it against you ... and you have to defeat it to put it back in your memory? 11:58:57 <08wormsofcan> yeah 12:00:08 <06mumra> It's a really nice image 🙂 ... It's way more complicated tho (just restricting spell usage temporarily is implemented really simply) 12:02:13 <08wormsofcan> yeah that kind of gimmick is probably better reserved for a unique 12:16:33 <04dracoomega> Making a hostile servitor that casts stolen spells is cute, but I think a fundamental problem is the inconsistency in what the servitor is actually able to cast, code-wise. Though funnily enough, what I've been planning to do with Dith spell mimickry actually might work with this idea a lot more naturally. 12:53:55 <06mumra> Yeah i looked at the code before and it's rather awkward. I think some variation on Living Spell would make more sense here but there is still the problem that so many spells aren't castable or even reasonable to cast for a monster so it severely limits what can be affected either way 12:59:00 <06mumra> (Sorry I re-read what you said earlier and realised i slightly missed that point about spell schools, you can just have them forget the entire school, like just set the skill to 0. Actually such an effect could even be used against non-magic skills too...) 13:01:40 <06mumra> (I think that potentially it's rather more complex to do it that way though ... since skills have a lot of interactions with all kinds of other things, but there's already a convenient check for "is this spell castable"...) 13:40:03 <04dracoomega> I didn't mean 'Set skill to 0', but rather 'Cannot cast spells involving that skill' 13:40:16 <04dracoomega> 'Temporarily lose all Fire spells or whatever' 13:45:44 <06dolorous_84348> One quick thought. Since new Dith is supposed to lose the umbra, leaving it as Yred's thing, what about other sources of umbra? New "Brilliance" is of course associated with Yred now, but where does the ring of Shadows get its umbra from then? (For the record, I would prefer to not make the latter evil just because it has an umbra.) 13:53:46 <04dracoomega> I mean, something can be dark without being evil. I think the ring of shadows can just be 'magic' 13:54:14 <04dracoomega> (Dith losing it has as much to do with god differentiation as it does any lore reason) 14:49:17 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-1179-g5fb32589bc: Add a minimum maximum message size 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5fb32589bcaf 14:49:36 <06pleasingfungus> oops @icoson didn't realize you were already working on this; let me know if you'd like me to roll my change back 15:36:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1179-g5fb32589bc (34) 15:37:48 <06dolorous_84348> Okay. 15:38:11 <06dolorous_84348> Indeed. 17:00:26 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1180-g8d0d2ced60: Make MP property on randarts not always be exactly +/-9 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8d0d2ced60a9 17:00:26 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1181-g91d48be214: Boost Coglin base Will, replace Will+ gizmo property (Lici) 10(15 minutes ago, 5 files, 15+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/91d48be214a9 17:27:06 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1182-g4d507754ad: Add more colour names to Blorkula's dialogue. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 136+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d507754ade1 18:00:08 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1183-g37f40e56f2: Add still more colour names to Blorkula's dialogue. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 40+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/37f40e56f23c 18:31:15 <05icoson> yeah maybe, looks like that commit keeps the "disable chat" option that I added (by setting None or 0) from working? 18:31:56 <05icoson> later in that function, if not max_length: return # chat disabled! 18:32:26 <05icoson> there's a default of 1000 already set in webtiles/config.py 18:33:33 <05icoson> I will just revert, sorry 🙂 18:35:19 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-1184-gb41659da18: Revert "Add a minimum maximum message size" 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b41659da188f 18:35:27 <06pleasingfungus> hm, i tested it locally after the change and it worked 18:36:10 <05icoson> presumably after your change if you explicitly set it to 0, it gets converted to 1000 18:36:24 <05icoson> if you leave it unset, that would work, but it already worked 18:37:35 <05icoson> that is, what I implemented, is that if it's unset, it defaults to 1000 (https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/webtiles/config.py#L104) and if explicitly set to 0 or None it disables 19:00:55 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1185-ge5b5818aa0: Add yet more colour names to Blorkula's dialogue. 10(59 minutes ago, 1 file, 100+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5b5818aa015 19:01:53 <06dolorous_84348> I am officially "colored" out. 19:08:38 <04dracoomega> Blorkula would be proud 19:13:18 <09gammafunk> https://tenor.com/bUF1Y.gif 19:13:47 <07zureal> Shazbot 19:38:00 <06dolorous_84348> There are some entries that are synonyms (e.g. periwinkle and sorcerer's violet) or overly vague in what colors they describe (e.g. iris and taupe), but I choose to chalk it up to Blorkula's being a little crazy when he uses them together. 19:38:46 <06dolorous_84348> Besides, there are a bunch of different shades of periwinkle regardless of its being a defined color, and who knows which one everyone means? There aren't color police in the dungeon, after all. 20:32:34 <08nicolae> there will be once gammafunk lets me make a background 20:32:50 <08nicolae> also, there should be a hexes/necro spell called Hexsanguination 21:41:41 <04dracoomega> I am surprised at how many cases there are to handle a player shadow casting things they were either only able to cast for a single month back in 2014 or never 22:35:23 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1185-ge5b5818aa0 (34) 22:58:30 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1185-ge5b5818aa0 23:34:16 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1185-ge5b5818aa0 (34) 23:55:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1185-ge5b5818aa0