03:31:59 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5199-gb287095a7e
05:30:43 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1018-gb024fe6 (34)
05:33:39 <Discord|> <06m​umra> Curious ... been refactoring spell_range to clean up some bugs and inconsistencies i found. In the check for Vehument bonus there's a comment  && spell != SPELL_HAILSTORM // uses a special system  Now I can't see anything in cast_hailstorm that relates to this nor any obvious reason why it shouldn't get a range bonus ... am I missing something and maybe I clarify that comment if there's a good reason why it's an exception?
05:49:36 * GenTooMan sews on discord....
06:05:08 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> from the initial Hailstorm commit, 03648482: "Currently, Veh does not add a fourth ring, that would almost double the number of affected squares."
06:06:04 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> so yeah, the comment is misleading - H's range never changes
06:22:44 <Pinkbeast> OOI, and I appreciate there may be no answer to this, what _is_ the rationale for whether a god uses Invo or not? (Beyond obvious cases like "no active abilities"...)
06:23:25 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1019-g55a6d9f8c3: Fix typos. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/55a6d9f8c3ef
06:23:25 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1020-g9de2d02d68: Fix punctuation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9de2d02d6848
06:34:05 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 9de2d02d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8849003769
06:38:32 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> In some cases, philosophy? IIRC, Trog doesn't train Invocations because more Invocations means more magic points, and Trog's hatred of spell magic comes into play there.
06:42:15 <Pinkbeast> I suppose now I look at the set of not-Invo gods most of them wouldn't make a lot of sense with Invo
06:43:22 <Pinkbeast> Thanks. Bit of a silly question, really.
06:43:47 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> No problem. And it's not silly; sometimes these things need to be hashed out.
06:54:27 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> it’s a balance consideration in some cases
06:54:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> adding or removing invo dependency was a way to weaken or strengthen a god
06:55:10 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> eg j is a stronger swap because you don’t need to train invo to take advantage of it
06:55:29 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> t is stronger because you can go full melee… etc
07:17:56 <Discord|> <06m​umra> On the other hand - flame wave gets an entire extra wave with an increased radius on that final wave to boot
07:19:01 <Pinkbeast> PF: mmm, that I've had on my mind given the next big thing on my list is decks for everyone which kind of implies Evo Nemelex...
07:22:40 <Discord|> <06m​umra> I also discovered a couple of other spells (noxious bog, frozen ramparts) also specifically don't use vehumet's extra range but are special cased in a different way, so I at least move the list of exceptions into one place with this refactor 🙂  (Maybe should add an additional spflag to say "don't change this spell's range, even though it still gets the power boost"
07:27:10 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> but flame wave needs you to spend an extra turn to get that extra wave! how often will you even want to be flame waving for 4 turns in a row, or have enemies at distance 4 by that time? 🙂
07:27:20 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> that was my thinking about why it was justifiable
07:27:30 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i'd also be fine with it buffing hailstorm, tho
07:27:32 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> (as a player I wouldn't mind a niche spell, which I often ignore, get a buff)
07:28:11 <Discord|> <06m​umra> On my last FE playthrough with Veh I feel like I used it a lot
07:28:19 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> neat!
07:28:30 <Discord|> <06m​umra> it's essentially free, if there are any stragglers still left around
07:28:43 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> does the radius matter?
07:30:09 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> more range is always good
07:30:50 <Discord|> <06m​umra> i'm not sure how much but it does nearly double the affected tiles (48->80)
07:32:13 <Discord|> <06m​umra> which is nearly as many tiles as the first 3 waves combined
07:32:34 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> fr: Veh buffs hailstorm, but in a different way. You would be able to hit the tiles right next to you, so the spell becomes more spammable and less tricky to use
07:33:09 <Discord|> <06m​umra> oh nice, then that comment would actually be accurate as well 🤔
07:33:46 <Discord|> <09h​ellmonk> Make vehumet expand the whole donut so it hits at 3-4 range but not range 2
07:38:52 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Old Nemelex did use Evo, and decks were actual items at that time. You also had to hoover items off the floor and sacrifice them via prayer (the "Your body glows with a rainbow of weird colours and disappears." messages are derived from this), and the really old Nemelex required you to carry around a portable altar, set it up, and put all the items on it to sacrifice them.
07:43:16 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> lmao
07:43:21 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> into hellmo’s thing
07:43:37 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> not sure if i’m serious
07:44:12 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> dolorous: i think pinkbeast might know that…?
07:44:53 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Sorry, wasn't certain.
07:45:28 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> For the record, back then the flavor of the portable altar was interesting, but the actual gameplay was a pain.
07:45:36 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> (Hence its removal.)
07:45:53 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> "a portable altar"? 🤔 How long ago was that?
07:46:57 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> I couldn't remember offhand, but according to the Crawl wiki, it was removed in 0.3.0.
07:46:58 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> before my time
07:47:01 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> ha
07:47:35 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> %git c8a0422ee
07:47:35 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> haranp * 0.3-a0-284-gc8a0422eec: Removed portable altars. Nemelex prayers will now sacrifice everything on the current square. (This will need some interface improvements to prevent players from 'p'ing away their stash...) Also removed some unused enums and enum values. Breaks
07:47:36 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> ..savefiles. (17 years ago, 12 files, 16+ 164-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8a0422eec77
07:48:53 <Discord|> <12g​e0ff> it was an actual misc item!
07:54:04 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> I suppose the only way you could bring it back in a sense is if you had another god with one worshipper, and that worshipper carried the altar to that god around because the god was just so obscure that they had no altars anywhere else.
07:55:05 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> (It would only be used for worship, not sacrifices.)
07:55:51 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> in a certain sense, beogh has portable altars.
07:55:59 <Discord|> <06m​umra> You could just have it as flavour text when you're using nem abilities. "You set up your portable altar and start shuffling the cards..."
07:56:29 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Altars that can smite as well as move 🙂
08:54:04 <Pinkbeast> I do know that (indeed I've played 0.18 which had decks for everyone) but thanks, I'd rather be told things I do know than not be told things I don't know
09:08:22 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> wise.
09:24:28 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Yeah, hailstorm honestly feels pretty safe to buff this way to me (and Veh has mostly been on the overall lower end of god power regardless).
09:25:25 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (...Not that what it does is immediately obvious to me, but in the difficulty of figuring out what potential new holies feel appropriate theme-wise for fixing that set, I am suddenly deeply tempted to steal from Pathfinder's juggernauts, which are crosses between mobile shrines and tanks.)
11:25:26 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/3783 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3783
11:25:27 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3783 * 0.32-a0-1021-gb2e380733e: Add Zin vs. Nemelex temple overflow vault. 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 88+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2e380733e06
11:33:58 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3783 * 0.32-a0-1021-gcd6c31906a: Add Zin vs. Nemelex temple overflow vault. 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 88+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd6c31906af8
11:42:29 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1021-g52f7614869: Make Cigotuvi's Monster's constriction less absurd 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/52f761486914
11:49:58 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 52f76148 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8852853805
12:03:45 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1022-g0e4aabf6a3: Fix spelling. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e4aabf6a3b2
12:03:45 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1023-g9cce12141b: Fix capitalisation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cce12141b27
12:12:28 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 9cce1214 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8853061148
12:13:53 <geekosaur> someone gonna have to hack up our mac build rules again, brew and pip are having a tiff over who owns pyyaml
12:14:24 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1024-ge4ad002853: Don't Bestow Arms to monsters wielding unrandarts 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e4ad0028539b
12:19:42 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ e4ad0028 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8853183276
12:19:59 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> The build projects for Android, etc. also appear to need adjustments, since the new file mon-aura.cc was added.
12:27:29 <geekosaur> @robertxgray ^^
12:28:12 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Sorry (I really don't generally know how to touch almost any project/build stuff that I'm not directly using >.>)
12:28:33 <geekosaur> (the vc and xcode builds are always in dire need of attention)
12:29:43 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Neither do I, but I remember this being needed when mon-grow.cc was removed.
12:30:14 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Adding/removing files can get wonky.
12:30:24 <geekosaur> yes, but removal is easy, just remove the relevant lines. it's addition where it's unclear wehat magic hashes etc. need to be added
12:30:52 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Good to know.
12:32:55 <geekosaur> just have to wait on robertxgray to patch up the android project, which is in CI
12:33:11 <geekosaur> the other projects are not, thankfully, as nobody knows how to maintain them
13:06:34 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1025-geaffa7765d: Don't let AF_SWARM trigger from attacking firewood (riverfiend) 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eaffa7765d30
13:12:58 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-1026-g23695124c3: Add another pasta type to unrands. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/23695124c3dd
13:14:39 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Argh. Should have said "artefacts" rather than "unrands" there.
13:18:19 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ eaffa776 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8853687717
13:19:57 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 23695124 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8853759074
13:30:53 <Discord|> <06m​umra> There's another effect I was experimenting with (which is why I was digging into the spell range stuff) - a magic dampening aura that halves the range of all your spells. The current monster theme is a "deafening maw", basically a disembodies mouth creating a cacophony of noise. By the same logic that silence prevents spells altogether, something creating a loud enough noise to drown out your voice also "drowns out" the magical affect
13:30:54 <Discord|> (and affects invocations and scrolls, but not evokables of course).
13:33:07 <Discord|> <06m​umra> I was feeling like this feels quite V or Zot, but I could imagine it as a holy as well (something like a floating giant silver head intoning the word of zin)
13:35:00 <Discord|> <06m​umra> The noise will bring lots of stuff as well but I realise that treads a bit on sentinal's toes in V
13:35:56 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Interesting.
13:55:32 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/3784 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3784
13:55:33 <NotCheibriados> 03geekosaur02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3784 * 0.32-a0-1027-g3a6b559522: add mon-aura.cc to Android project 10(81 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3a6b559522a1
14:01:04 <geekosaur> woo, can haz android
14:03:12 <geekosaur> someone still needs to get brew and pip out of each others' hair though
14:10:46 <geekosaur> …oh dear
14:11:04 <geekosaur> just found the comment in ci.yml about this. it breaks *constantly*
14:13:21 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> While some form of effect temporarily limiting spell range might be interesting in some context, doing so via 'loud noise' feels really off flavor-wise to me. There are other sources of enormous noise that have no spellcasting interference and the important thing for spellcasting is that the words were said and not specifically that anything heard them (after all, you can cast fireballs into someone else's silence aura as long as
14:13:22 <Discord|> you're not standing in it yourself)
14:15:10 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Implementation-wise, reducing 'range' on scrolls and even many invocations is probably hard, since there's no consistent range parameter to query and it would likely mean editing a ton of effects individually)
14:15:30 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Not impossible, but a lot of work
14:46:15 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> and not just up-front; it would be extra maintainence as well
15:05:18 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Finally got inspired on the apocryphal tapestries about gods again. Although it's another order versus chaos thing and a reference to Discordianism at that. (For reference: the main bad guy in Discordianism is Greyface, who figures all order is good, all chaos is bad, and there shall be no joy in life; Zin's color is silver, which is just a shinier version of grey; thus, having Xom worshippers refer to "the rise of Zin" as the
15:05:19 <Discord|> "curse of Silverface" seems appropriate).
15:06:31 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> I was hoping I'd be more inspired on that front, but at least I've put in another entry in the wiki that I think is fitting?
15:37:53 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-1026-g23695124c3 (34)
16:05:20 <NotCheibriados> 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-1027-g15cee8bff2: Vault review, mostly for new monster / revisions 10(17 seconds ago, 16 files, 138+ 110-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/15cee8bff218
16:11:06 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ 15cee8bf 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8855241826
16:25:49 <Henzell> Hillam (L14 OpSh) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Lair:4)
16:25:59 <Henzell> Hillam (L14 OpSh) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Lair:4)
16:26:08 <Henzell> Hillam (L14 OpSh) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Lair:4)
16:26:16 <Henzell> Hillam (L14 OpSh) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Lair:4)
16:36:33 <geekosaur> !crashlog Hillam
16:36:33 <Sequell> 4. Hillam, XL14 OpSh, T:17690 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Hillam/crash-Hillam-20240426-232616.txt
16:38:19 <geekosaur> player ghost casting metabolic englaciation?
17:28:19 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-1028-gf613fa27ca: Fix a crash with casting Metabolic Englaciation against the player 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f613fa27ca5a
17:38:07 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08master @ f613fa27 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8855824489
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21:59:41 <Discord|> <06m​umra> As in, increase its range normally, or 제프's suggestion to let it hit the tiles next to you? (I am assuming the former not the latter)
22:00:45 <Discord|> <06m​umra> And how do people feel about Frozen Ramparts and Eringya's Noxious Bog, both similarly special cased currently?
22:35:46 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1028-gf613fa27ca (34)
22:44:51 <Discord|> <06m​umra> Well the idea was it's a REALLY loud noise, basically a rift into a dimension of pure cacophony, and it's continuous which is why it has this oppressive effect. But yeah, for some reason I thought scrolls were already going through the same range code but I see they aren't. It wouldn't be terrible to change this for scrolls as they're all handled from one place but yeah invocations would be rather more problematic. Still a "range
22:44:51 <Discord|> suppression aura" for spells only is maybe still viable. And it's been a useful refactor anyway.
22:47:35 <Discord|> <06m​umra> Oh one more thing about spell range special cases: Servitors were also specifically not getting the Vehumet range bonus. I wonder if I should also actually let them get it? Purely from a UX perspective it seems bad to make the player have to think about two different ranges for the same spell. And thematically it would be appropriate for Vehumet to support your servitor as well.
22:59:01 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1028-gf613fa27ca
23:13:44 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1028-gf613fa27ca (34)
23:56:04 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-1028-gf613fa27ca