01:03:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-747-gc8563f6773 (34) 01:03:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-747-gc8563f6773 (34) 01:13:52 <03wheals> i actually ran into the same mgrid bug while testing beogh revival, though it didn't fully lock the game for me 01:16:48 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 01:16:48 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 01:44:41 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-2387-g6dfb316b6e 01:44:42 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-2387-g6dfb316b6e 01:56:10 New branch created: pull/3695 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 01:56:10 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 * 0.32-a0-748-g1dc7d5c367: Allow aux attacks to receive bonuses from lash 10(78 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1dc7d5c36761 02:01:28 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 * 0.32-a0-749-g5e26a18867: Don't let lashed aux attacks ignore shields 10(64 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e26a1886797 02:02:32 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 * 0.32-a0-749-g05877dc0f0: Don't let lashed aux attacks ignore shields 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05877dc0f07c 04:31:34 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 05:13:28 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3687 * 0.32-a0-735-g8787c2cdcc: Stop autofire from hitting immune targets 10(13 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8787c2cdcc12 05:32:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-747-gc8563f6 (34) 07:03:38 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-796-g2fdedb9813: Refactor actor_is_susceptible_to_vampirism 10(53 seconds ago, 9 files, 23+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2fdedb981362 07:13:11 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-797-g63b99a21c4: Use a unique flavor for blood drain damage 10(68 seconds ago, 3 files, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/63b99a21c474 07:23:47 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-748-ga50f3326c4: fix: convert some string `+`s to `make_stringf` 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a50f3326c405 07:23:47 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-798-g4bf945efcc: Ramove gaining extra blood from killing Jory 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bf945efcc03 07:43:05 <05icoson> I guess this is the official github stance on homebrew python link issues: https://github.com/actions/runner-images/issues/9471#issuecomment-1984202712 07:44:31 <05icoson> it will be fixed in a runner update that I guess hasn't happened yet 07:45:12 <05icoson> %git c6129fcb3f4 07:45:12 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.31-a0-637-gc6129fcb3f: build: fix macos CI (7 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c6129fcb3f40 07:46:23 <05icoson> guess I already fixed it 🤔 07:47:47 04Build failed for 08master @ a50f3326 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8316118912 07:53:27 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-749-gf73a246b04: fix: reorder some CI steps 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f73a246b04ad 07:59:04 <06pleasingfungus> infamous…! 07:59:14 04Build failed for 08master @ f73a246b 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8316269156 07:59:20 <06pleasingfungus> ty for looking into it, @icoson ! 🙂 08:20:53 <05icoson> I wonder if we need to explicitly use homebrew python for macos ci 08:22:12 New branch created: pull/3696 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3696 08:22:12 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3696 * 0.32-a0-750-gc1b3f61355: Display chance for wand of warping to blink 10(66 seconds ago, 5 files, 18+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c1b3f6135580 08:22:58 <05icoson> I should know better than to hope I don't need to do ci adjustments in a branch 08:23:16 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-750-g93cc127212: fix: possibly unbreak macos CI pip3 call 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93cc1272122b 08:24:20 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-798-g3e7fae84c6: Ramove gaining extra blood from killing Jory 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3e7fae84c699 08:29:12 <05icoson> there must have been some big runner upgrade a few days ago 08:29:34 <05icoson> other stuff is def broken as well that was getting preempted by this 08:41:17 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-751-g66263ccf9e: fix: update some CI python versions 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66263ccf9e86 08:41:17 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-752-gbdd6c9c6ed: fix: convert CI macos pyyaml dep to homebrew 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdd6c9c6edab 08:44:58 04Build failed for 08master @ 93cc1272 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8316446352 08:54:00 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-753-g424f3ba4f7: fix: update requirements files for webserver tests 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 115+ 49-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/424f3ba4f7b4 08:54:50 <05icoson> this requirements setup feels a bit brittle, I wonder if it's really the right way to do things in 2024 09:00:35 04Build failed for 08master @ bdd6c9c6 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8316539230 09:04:26 04Build failed for 08master @ 424f3ba4 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/8316596844 09:06:24 <05icoson> lol I never updated the flake8 test when I refactored webtiles code location 09:11:44 Ge0ff (L27 MDCA) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= mons->damage_total) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 249 failed. (D:12) 09:11:44 Ge0ff (L27 MDCA) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= mons->damage_total) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 249 failed. (D:12) 09:12:48 Ge0ff (L27 MDCA) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= mons->damage_total) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 249 failed. (D:12) 09:12:48 Ge0ff (L27 MDCA) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= mons->damage_total) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 249 failed. (D:12) 09:13:09 <12ge0ff> :berserk: 09:13:52 <12ge0ff> The fix allowed me to exit Crypt without a crash, but now it's crashing on another floor during the orb run 09:23:56 <03wheals> odd 09:23:59 <03wheals> !crashlog 09:24:07 <04Cerebot> 27954. Ge0ff, XL27 MDCA, T:76634 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Ge0ff/crash-Ge0ff-20240317-161235.txt 09:24:24 <06pleasingfungus> very cursed game 09:29:09 <03wheals> this would be a lot simpler if i just remembered how to do save editing 09:30:01 <03wheals> though I'm confused how this monster didn't get updated by the fix under the tag minor check 09:31:48 <05icoson> it also seems like requirements.txt really isn't designed to handle multiple python versions (currently at the "how did this ever work at all" phase) 09:38:32 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-754-g14b72cc9fe: fix: further update webtiles tests 10(5 minutes ago, 7 files, 51+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14b72cc9fea4 09:38:32 03advil02 07* 0.32-a0-755-g6ff4911247: fix: remove 3.12 from ci webserver testing 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6ff4911247d8 09:48:01 <05icoson> whew, finally 09:48:01 <05icoson> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1218964065746157721/Screenshot_2024-03-17_at_12.47.51_PM.png?ex=660993c0&is=65f71ec0&hm=2180ada6cce7cc221e24cda779cc66a661ecb074e075e8c22a74b41ff0d5d01a& 09:58:09 <06dolorous_84348> @Monkooky I have another updated port of one of your old pull requests, the Qazlal Upheaval friendly fire one (it's easier to test on my end than the spellforged talisman one). Do you mind if I put it up? 10:04:29 <06pleasingfungus> hurray! 10:08:20 New branch created: pull/3697 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3697 10:08:21 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3697 * 0.32-a0-754-g09659911af: Correct how the display_char option handles gems and gold. 10(24 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/09659911af12 10:26:14 <02Monkooky> go for it! 10:33:29 <06dolorous_84348> Thank you. 10:39:09 New branch created: pull/3698 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 10:39:10 03Monkooky02 {dolorous} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-756-g4417570bd7: Remove Upheaval friendly fire 10(5 months ago, 3 files, 34+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4417570bd7e9 10:39:10 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-757-g66b12f8ca9: Remove now-unused variable. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66b12f8ca95d 10:39:10 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-758-g0b7bc04974: Disable prompt when self-aiming Upheavel. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b7bc0497405 10:39:10 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-759-g7c5fe03aaf: Refactor Upheaval/Disaster Area's target skips. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c5fe03aaf7f 10:44:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-758-g57e7f26c4a: Disable prompt when self-aiming Upheaval. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57e7f26c4aeb 10:44:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-759-g6c9cc5821f: Refactor Upheaval/Disaster Area's target skips. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c9cc5821fa8 11:15:21 <03wheals> i saw that PR and wondered whether it might be better to check and set origin_spell instead of a new beam type 11:15:33 <03wheals> though that's also a bit odd because it's not an actual spell for the player 11:17:48 <06dolorous_84348> I'm not certain, but I'm also not familiar with all of the intricacies of the beam code. 11:18:17 <06dolorous_84348> Although I know enough to get this working again, obviously. 11:19:20 <03wheals> either way works, i think it's just a matter of personal preference which one is cleaner 11:19:42 <06dolorous_84348> Okay. The refactor duplicates some of the logic of the targeter, but the change from the targeter to the element type necessitates that, as far as I can tell. 11:19:45 <03wheals> or in other words, "implementer's choice" :) 11:20:39 <06dolorous_84348> Indeed. I'd been looking at it for a while, and something about the "keep Invocations at this extremely specific spoiler-derived value to not blow up your elemental allies" just seemed wrong. 11:22:44 <06dolorous_84348> It just took me a while to get to it and figure out a solution to the problem with blowing up whatever Upheaval was aimed at, regardless of whether it should or not. 11:53:26 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-757-g6668342b44: Constify variable. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6668342b4461 11:53:26 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-758-g485f78a853: Remove now-unused variable. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/485f78a85379 11:53:26 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-759-g2d5b9e60bd: Disable prompt when self-aiming Upheaval. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d5b9e60bd7b 11:53:26 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-760-gf8d414d95f: Refactor Upheaval/Disaster Area's target skips. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8d414d95f9a 12:21:07 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-757-ga0ff7ae4cc: Readd the Disaster Area radius limitation. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0ff7ae4ccf3 12:21:07 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-758-g82d6237c10: Constify variable. 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/82d6237c1091 12:21:07 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-759-g2afe0861ec: Disable prompt when self-aiming Upheaval. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2afe0861ec15 12:21:07 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3698 * 0.32-a0-760-gea66dcc923: Refactor Upheaval/Disaster Area's target skips. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea66dcc9235b 12:21:36 CaptHook (L1 MDFi) ASSERT(valid_cursor_pos(pos.x, pos.y, region)) in 'libutil.cc' at line 404 failed. (invalid cursor position 38,-7 in region 1, should be 1,10 in region 2) (D:1) 13:05:39 03Monkooky02 {dolorous} 07* 0.32-a0-756-ge6bea51fa9: Remove Upheaval friendly fire 10(5 months ago, 3 files, 34+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6bea51fa9b5 13:05:39 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-757-gc677e9a310: Readd the Disaster Area radius limitation. 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c677e9a31032 13:05:39 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-758-g8d7d3c4e6d: Constify variable. 10(81 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8d7d3c4e6dee 13:05:39 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-759-g1cb27b7edc: Disable prompt when self-aiming Upheaval. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1cb27b7edc33 13:05:39 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-760-g6b6a0ea73c: Refactor Upheaval/Disaster Area's target skips. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b6a0ea73c86 14:46:24 <04dracoomega> I exist. After a fashion. 14:46:46 Existing is always a good thing... I hope/ 14:46:52 <04dracoomega> I like existing! 14:47:21 <06regret-⸸nde※> Nonexistence is comfy too. 14:47:31 <06pleasingfungus> welcome back! after a fashion 14:47:39 <04dracoomega> (Apologies for self-caused bugs fixed in my absence. Not sure how much energy I have for Crawl things at present, though I can at least say words) 14:47:48 <06pleasingfungus> (hopefully a cool fashion. like bell bottoms.) 14:47:50 <06pleasingfungus> never apologize! 14:48:52 NormalPerson7 (L24 SpWr) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Abyss:3) 14:49:03 <04dracoomega> I remember looking at that pacification floor return assert at one point, being unsure whether it was safe to change the order dactions were processed on level load (which would have fixed that but risked breaking something else), and then forgetting about it >.> 14:50:40 <06pleasingfungus> rip 14:50:40 <04Cerebot> rip 14:50:50 Seems like wand of roots and tentacled starspawn don't go well together... 14:51:33 <04dracoomega> In what sense? 14:56:33 as in that caused a crash 14:58:15 <02Monkooky> uhhh, did any of the tentacle reworks get in 14:58:52 <02Monkooky> or is that all still sitting in pr 14:59:09 !crashlog 14:59:18 27956. NormalPerson7, XL24 SpWr, T:92111 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/NormalPerson7/crash-NormalPerson7-20240317-214852.txt 15:00:00 <04dracoomega> I was still in tentacle hell when last I was doing work, a couple weeks back 15:00:02 <04dracoomega> Nothing got merged 15:00:13 <04dracoomega> Of course, constriction changes did get merged a while back 15:00:17 <06pleasingfungus> tentacle hell... 15:00:22 actually looking at the log it looks like it happened just after tele kicked in 15:00:54 <04dracoomega> Yeah, something to do with clearing invalid constrictions 15:01:19 <04dracoomega> I'd seen a similar crash a couple times without being able to reproduce myself 15:01:43 <04dracoomega> One was shortly after merging and I was like "If I wait a little, a few more may give me more actionable data" but then it mostly never seeme to happen again 15:02:20 <04dracoomega> (Previous ones involved constrictions being cleared after taking stairs, but I assume its a manifestation of the same problem) 15:02:46 <04dracoomega> But clearly constrictions are usually cleared without issue, or this would be happening way more frequently 15:03:24 I wonder if doesn't help that a starspawn tentacle was being constricted 15:03:52 <04dracoomega> (When I took out 'duration constricted' tracking entirely, I changed the constriction list from a map to a vector, so basically all the code for iteration and removal is 'new') 15:04:07 <04dracoomega> Very possible some of it is non-obviously incorrect in some scenarios 15:04:21 right I see, the recent constriction changes 15:04:23 makes sense 15:07:40 fwiw the crashes I've seen are all "going downstairs" or "teleported in abyss" 15:07:55 either way it's "a new region" in some sense 15:09:21 <04dracoomega> Yes 15:10:06 <04dracoomega> Well, I did manage to replicate it with an abyss shift myself now 15:10:13 <04dracoomega> So maybe that means I can debug it 15:20:50 <04dracoomega> Okay, actually the logic for this seems rather mangled and I wonder how it got this way 15:21:50 <04dracoomega> (Almost certainly my fault in some fashion, but enough stuff got rewritten/rearranged that there no clear throughline to exactly how it was before this) 15:22:21 <04dracoomega> There currently seems to be no way to end constriction against an actor that doesn't exist, since the only method to do so has to dereference the mid of that actor 15:22:45 <04dracoomega> If this is the case, I'm genuinely surprised this crash doesn't happen more often 15:29:38 <04dracoomega> Haha, I never noticed this part of the crash dump before: Standing on/in/over feature: Constricting bad monster[2621]. Constricting bad monster[2622]. Constricting bad monster[2619]. 15:30:14 <06pleasingfungus> you're a bad, bad monster... 15:32:49 <04dracoomega> Okay, I was like "Why didn't that fix it? I was sure that should fix it?" but the remaining crash was from my debug statements themselves, whoops 15:33:05 <04dracoomega> (Which were also still trying to dereference a null pointer) 15:35:15 <06pleasingfungus> hurray! 15:35:22 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-761-g2cddf732a9: Fix a crash with ending constriction after level transit 10(51 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2cddf732a967 15:35:28 <04dracoomega> Not sure how much energy I have for Crawl things at present and then immediately goes bugfixing >.> 15:35:31 <06pleasingfungus> yes 15:35:34 <06pleasingfungus> i was about to find that one to quote 😛 15:35:37 <04dracoomega> Haha 15:35:47 <04dracoomega> But it would be irresponsible not to try! >.> 15:35:48 <04dracoomega> <.< 15:35:52 <06dolorous_84348> Energy comes and goes. 15:36:20 <04dracoomega> Yes. I'm certainly not going to make an attempt to keep anything close to the pace I'd otherwise done recently. Even without being sick, I'd been pushing it, tbh 15:36:27 03Aliscans02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-762-g903ea0f9b0: Correct how the display_char option handles gems and gold. 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/903ea0f9b0b4 15:37:31 03SentientSupper02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-763-g5810ea11cc: Show player as immune to charming with clarity 10(17 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5810ea11cc8d 15:37:31 03SentientSupper02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-764-g77bb6d37f3: Show undead players as immune to polymorph 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77bb6d37f390 15:37:33 <06pleasingfungus> sentientsupper has been making it rain PRs... impossible to keep up 😛 15:37:38 <06pleasingfungus> need a full time dev just on PR watch! 15:38:36 <06dolorous_84348> And then there are the old PRs, and the new PRs that need reviews from people who understand a lot of the underlying code... 15:39:00 <06pleasingfungus> i do think that reviewing PRs is significantly harder than writing your own code 15:39:07 <04dracoomega> The thing with either complex or significantly balance-affecting PRs is that someone kind of needs to be willing to take 'ownership' of them for a while 15:39:26 <06pleasingfungus> writing code requires you to understand the problem, both in terms of game design and implementation, and to spend time to think about the best solutions 15:39:39 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-765-gfba4d74c8c: Update CREDITS for bjo* 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fba4d74c8c69 15:39:40 <04dracoomega> (Monkooky's kraken PR ended up with me spending days deep in tentacle code fixes and still wasn't out when I got sick >.>) 15:40:04 <06pleasingfungus> reviewing PRs is the same, but you also need to read and understand someone else's attempted solution (always tricky), and there's less intrinsic motivation (since it's someone else's goal, not yours) 15:40:18 <04dracoomega> Will probably still get back to that at some point, but would like a bit less troublesome to implement things for a bit ^^; 15:40:26 <06dolorous_84348> Although if it's a common goal, it helps. 15:40:27 <06pleasingfungus> it's very important to support community PRs for the sake of the game's long-term wellbeing... but so hard 15:41:41 <06dolorous_84348> And it's hard enough with your own code, if you don't think of every single thing you have to hook up to make things work properly. 15:42:16 <06dolorous_84348> See: making the umbra from foul shadow actually increase your stealth as an umbra source is supposed to, which I only caught recently, I'm ashamed to say. 15:42:26 <06dolorous_84348> But so many other bits in there. 15:42:44 <04dracoomega> Do want to do something about RevMP. I know initial expectations were that it was undertuned, but I wanted to see if that bore out in practice first, and it seems to have. Folding some +MP into the gizmo property would do something, but I wondered if there was another answer. Like, as something linked to the rev mechanic, I want you to actually feel the rev part. I know spellcasting is not the most natural fit for that, but I kind 15:42:44 of think its good if some facet of coglins can directly link the two of them. Wondered a little how crazy it would be to, instead of scaling mp regeneration, you get an increasing cost reduction to spells you cast specifically while revved up. So you have to rev up first, but then you get to have more burst to unload with immediately afterward? 15:43:28 <04dracoomega> (The Yred/Dith umbra code thing, by the way, dates back from when I was expecting to have Dith rework ready to go in the same patch, and had planned to take it away from Dith entirely. But then Beogh took forever and I never got to it and just forgot about that part ^^; ) 15:43:40 <04dracoomega> Somewhat telling how long it took anyone to report it 15:43:54 <06dolorous_84348> No problem. Rewriting gods is hard work 🙂 And I haven't played Dith in ages myself. 15:44:13 <06pleasingfungus> did you see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3666 ? 15:44:28 <06pleasingfungus> some interesting discussion there 15:44:32 <04dracoomega> I actually kept abreast of #dcss chatter from bed, believe it or not 😛 15:45:09 <04dracoomega> I don't think I really like the idea of RevMP changing how rev itself works, honestly? 15:45:49 <06pleasingfungus> agree 15:45:51 <04dracoomega> The extra charge of misc evocables is interesting for the unrand, at least. Not sure how complex that is to implement. 15:46:08 <06pleasingfungus> looks like you already changed it to scale up as you rev? 15:46:13 <06pleasingfungus> rather than only turning on at full rev 15:46:17 <04dracoomega> Yes 15:46:30 <06pleasingfungus> pity, that was going to be my suggestion 😛 15:46:31 <04dracoomega> Both RevParry and RevMP were switched to work that way within a day or two of going live 15:46:44 <04dracoomega> Per elliptic's suggestion 15:46:55 <06pleasingfungus> think i was doing a pretty good job of keeping abreast of trunk changes for quite a long time until the Great Flood of late '23 / early '24 15:47:01 <06pleasingfungus> many mysteries to me in that time... 15:47:06 <06pleasingfungus> anyway 15:47:06 <04dracoomega> Hehe 15:48:20 <06pleasingfungus> my intuition is that revMP is a bit narrow (requires you to care about hitting things and then casting spells afterward), and that cost reduction doesn't change that? possible i'm overlooking something 15:48:27 <04dracoomega> An interesting thing about a magic cost reduction when revved to me is that for a lot of spells this is normally not the ideal time to start unloading your mp pool - after you've already engaged in melee). So it might create a certain positive tension of wanting to fight for a bit and then throw out the booms that makes it feel more distinct to have instead of 'mp regen, but slightly different/worse' 15:48:55 <04dracoomega> Well, I think a cost reduction creates more burst potential than regen does? 15:49:01 <04dracoomega> Which can be exciting 15:49:06 <06pleasingfungus> ah, good point. i guess i should say that the current setup requires you to care about casting spells and then hitting things, and the cost reduction requires the reverse [the thing i originally said] 15:49:13 <06pleasingfungus> which is, as you said, normally not ideal 15:49:23 <04dracoomega> And the power of it can be scaled to some degree with that in mind 15:52:16 <04dracoomega> I suppose maybe a usability downside of this system that r-i points out is that you rev down while casting and at some point that makes your spells cost most again and I don't know if that threshold would catch people off-guard? 15:52:24 <06pleasingfungus> seems hard to balance something that's very narrow but extremely strong in that niche 15:54:09 <04dracoomega> I do quite like the general idea of a 2nd rev-interaction (besides RevParry which at least seems fineish?) that benefits more casty stuff somehow, though. 15:54:22 <04dracoomega> Whatever form that takes 15:54:52 <06pleasingfungus> sure 15:54:59 <04dracoomega> Certainly open to alternate suggestions 15:55:23 <06pleasingfungus> sadly i have no ideas 15:55:34 <06pleasingfungus> only critiques and nitpicks 15:55:36 <06dolorous_84348> I can't think of anything at the moment either. 16:14:40 <04dracoomega> Kind of want to try working on the Manifold Assault change soon (and a new level 4 combat translocation to replace it in the Warper book) as has been talked about a handful of times. I had thought I'd touch Gell's while I was at it, then saw SentientSupper independently doing something in that vein afterward. I find it kind of amusing that he wants to extend it to being able to cast it on walls, while I had actually been thinking to 16:14:40 restrict it to casting on creatures instead of general open space (among some other changes) 16:16:30 <04dracoomega> (I'd thought that needing a hostile creature as a focus point might make the effect of it slightly more intuitive, and reduce attempts to use it to rather poorly and sometimes invisibly try to shift things away from you in a certain direction. Also naturally self-limiting in that either the focus point dies or gets closer to you anyway) 16:17:24 <04dracoomega> I think with Manifold Assault being higher level, it might theoretically have a little more room to shine in its place at lower levels, with some touch-ups? 16:19:44 <06pleasingfungus> restricting possible targets might help with ergonomics - seems like you could make the autotargeter do something frequently sensible 16:20:14 <04dracoomega> Yeah 16:22:48 <04dracoomega> (Their changes to sorting order and penance bugfixes seem fine to just grab at the same time, of course) 16:34:51 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-765-gfba4d74c8c (34) 17:23:01 <02Monkooky> I think it would help, at a minimum, to get a bit of feedback, even if it's not a decisive yes/no 17:28:24 <06pleasingfungus> this is fair 17:28:33 <06pleasingfungus> and quite reasonable 17:34:10 <09gammafunk> I'm making a fork of dcss that will remove pull requests 17:34:14 <09gammafunk> and mimics 17:34:52 <09gammafunk> I think it will have more popularity than mainline in short order... 17:35:20 <09gammafunk> instead of pull requests I'll just implement whatever nicolae suggests 18:13:31 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 * 0.32-a0-748-g1fce895d6d: Allow aux attacks to receive bonuses from lash 10(16 hours ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1fce895d6dbb 18:13:31 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3695 * 0.32-a0-749-ga1516b53fd: Don't let lashed aux attacks ignore shields 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1516b53fdbe 18:27:30 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-766-g00dc8146b4: Fix spelling. 10(54 seconds ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/00dc8146b4e2 19:12:04 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3666 * 0.32-a0-719-g41e23fb7f8: checkwhite 10(71 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/41e23fb7f8d2 20:30:37 <04dracoomega> You're not incorrect at all, but there's been a handful of times where I feel I cannot articulate my reservations about something in sufficiently clear terms that it feels like I'd just be writing "I don't like it because of vibes" and that feels bad to say to someone, especially someone who put effort into something. I mean, it's bad to leave people hanging in silence for ages, too, but it is easier for inaction to happen rather 20:30:37 than action in these situations. 20:30:48 <04dracoomega> This isn't aimed at you in particular, to be clear! 20:31:37 <04dracoomega> But like, sometimes there are PRs that have clear and easy reasons to reject or ask for changes to, and sometimes there are PRs that just kind of... feel like not the best idea, but not in a way that makes it easy to say something objective about why? 20:36:58 <04dracoomega> (There may also be a certain amount of tacitly hoping someone else will do that first >.>; ) 20:44:09 <02Monkooky> I think I might type up a screed about the non-dev contribution experience, probably tomorrow 20:45:45 <02Monkooky> cause the current situation is really disheartening and makes it very difficult to stay motivated to contribute 20:47:06 <04dracoomega> I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses. I can totally see a number of ways in which it feels bad 20:47:16 <04dracoomega> And I apologize for my own role in that 20:59:12 <06pleasingfungus> screed is a good term 20:59:18 <06pleasingfungus> i agree the current situation sucks tbh 20:59:25 <06pleasingfungus> i don’t think a screed is needed for that 20:59:36 <06pleasingfungus> i’m just not sure how to make things better 21:00:18 <06pleasingfungus> both my own resources and those of the devteam as a whole are very limited 21:00:47 <06pleasingfungus> which pushes us to choose between a variety of bad options 21:01:14 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-799-ge2cd0583b9: Reallow checking of intrisinc rN for vamp draining 10(23 minutes ago, 3 files, 11+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e2cd0583b968 21:11:28 <06pleasingfungus> dcss fundamentally lives off the community. without healthy feedback to contributors, we can’t help them grow into full devteam members - and the devteam stagnating has obvious downsides 21:11:54 <06pleasingfungus> but without enough devteam resources, it’s very difficult to provide good and timely pr feedback 21:12:40 <06pleasingfungus> and it’s not reasonable to ask people to devote 100% or even 60% of their time to handling prs - esp for a volunteer project, that’s a recipe for burnout 21:13:36 <06pleasingfungus> so idk. i can try to go through and add fast sketchy comments, though probably not tonight (i’m about to run toddler bedtime) 21:14:05 <06regret-⸸nde※> (There is an extremely limited number of crawl devs actually active at quite a few times. Any given crawl dev is volunteering irregular, limited personal time with an irregular, limited scope of fresh codebase knowledge / design practice and interest / balance and testing perspective, with their own indefinite plans to fix up something heavily burdened with decades of prior content and specific intents. In return one gets 21:14:05 irregular, limited feedback beyond the immediate committing. To actually take in given PRs requires an extreme narrow alignment of the aforementioned factors, combined with the average submitter's design sense not matching that dev's own and either having to hash out all the feedback process or taking authoratative claim to actually get it solidified even though many submitters are unwilling to go through such.) 21:15:12 <06pleasingfungus> it’s unhelpful, but i do miss ebering 21:15:17 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I spent some of my earliest weeks on this return handling vault PRs. I'm not sure how many contributors I scared off.) 21:15:56 <04dracoomega> I was planning to go through a bunch of PRs after I finished my last big projects, but of course I landed on the kraken thing as like PR #3, got buried in it for days, and then got sick >.> 21:15:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Of course, I don't know how many of them were disappointed from it taking months instead...) 21:16:21 <06regret-⸸nde※> PR labels clearly need difficulty tiering. 21:16:38 <04dracoomega> I mean, that's sometimes hard to tell 😛 21:16:41 <02Monkooky> yeah there was a reason I opted to leave the 'how tentacles move' fundamentally unchanged 21:16:47 <04dracoomega> (Not that I couldn't anticipate a little here) 21:17:08 <02Monkooky> cause that didn't seem worth the effort, and probably would have made the PR harder to review if I'd attempted a fix 21:17:36 <04dracoomega> The thing is, even without changing that, the new kraken fight behavior highlighted how often they would randomly eat their own tentacles at seemingly random already 21:17:45 <02Monkooky> yeah that's true 21:17:54 <04dracoomega> Since you'd be engaging with them in ways that wasn't standing near the edge of sight and plinking them 21:18:09 <04dracoomega> And it felt like it mattered enough that I wasn't satisfied without trying to fix it 21:18:20 03SentientSupper02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-767-gb0416c464d: Display chance for wand of warping to blink 10(13 hours ago, 5 files, 18+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b0416c464d86 21:18:22 <02Monkooky> I can go back and try to fix that up 21:18:40 <04dracoomega> I had fixed a few things, last I was at it 21:18:54 <04dracoomega> (It was some really painfully work, let me tell you >.>0 21:20:23 <04dracoomega> I reduced the number of spontaneous tentacle deaths a decent bit, but there were still others left 21:21:15 <06dolorous_84348> I know I've been irregular with the patches of yours I've updated (even if I finally got to the one), and I should do better. Real life is overwhelming me more often lately. 21:21:42 <02Monkooky> no worries that's actually been a breath of fresh air 21:21:50 <06dolorous_84348> Good to know. 21:22:15 <02Monkooky> but yeah irrespective of tentacle hell my problems with the current contribution experience go beyond just the long delay 21:22:17 <04dracoomega> To be honest, I started to genuinely wonder if the attempted new design would be better off if krakens just summoned multiple solo tentacles in nearby water tiles. There are a variety of reasons that those are a lot less buggy (and we already have 'tentacle base emerging from water' tiles!). Have them retract if the kraken gets too far away. 21:22:36 <02Monkooky> yeah I also thought about that 21:22:48 <04dracoomega> Kraken pathfinding has problems as well, as it cannot understand how to get 'closer' to the player if the player isn't literally reachable by being adjacent to deep water 21:22:55 <02Monkooky> only reason for Not doing it was it seemed like more work 21:22:58 <04dracoomega> Even if it clearly has a path to get a lot closer 21:23:16 <04dracoomega> It was! ^^; 21:23:26 <04dracoomega> I have been known to be overly ambitious sometimes >.> 21:25:46 03SentientSupper02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-768-g0f6f1dd4b9: Fix cursed item background not being red 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f6f1dd4b927 23:01:45 <02Monkooky> I think, for me, what sucks most is the insane difficulty of getting feedback. You can't just slam a thing in trunk/experimental and see if someone complains- and you almost never get more than two people willing to do the work of downloading, compiling, and trying your branch. Feedback from the dev team is also usually pretty sparse, though I probably should be more obnoxious about seeking it. 23:05:38 <02Monkooky> this makes it very difficult to iterate on a design or to know if a design is worth polishing 23:08:15 <04dracoomega> For what it's worth, I wouldn't consider it obnoxious to seek direct feedback for things 23:09:05 <04dracoomega> Y'see, at least for me, it feels like there's a higher bar to "What I would post forever as a formal reply to a PR" and "Thoughts I might share in chat about a topic, if asked" 23:09:26 <04dracoomega> And I have definitely looked at some PRs multiple times and not been sure enough of exactly what to say to post any reply to them at all 23:09:41 <04dracoomega> But of course, that's impossible to differentiate from never having paid attention at all 23:10:24 <04dracoomega> From where you or any other contributer is sitting 23:10:34 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I can't speak for most other devs, but Draco and I had both come back to address pretty large matters of significant disrepair (vault stagnation, god rot, lingering spell issues, vanilla monster revisions) as immediate forecasted longterm projects other devs had not really gotten around to, and have only been barely managing to finish some but clearly not all of them, also. I did my part for my area of experience, at any 23:10:34 rate....) 23:11:10 <04dracoomega> I mean, I would put it more like "I filled my own plates up extremely full and didn't have a lot of room left afterward", for better or worse 23:11:49 <02Monkooky> I mean, I don't blame people for being busy and not getting to things, or for finding PR review unappealing 23:12:20 <04dracoomega> Like, actually merging and taking ownership of code and gameplay changes from non-trivial PRs take a fair bit of effort, but the feedback end of things does feel like it's in a terrible state and I wonder if there's anything that can be done to address it that isn't just ad hoc 23:14:35 <06regret-⸸nde※> (The feedback end of things devs make that just get in without these barriers is regularly still a pretty terrible state, to be honest.) 23:15:26 <02Monkooky> does seem to be the opposite problem, of too much feedback (some of it bad and ill-founded) 23:15:35 <04dracoomega> It's very scattershot, in my experience 23:15:49 <04dracoomega> Some things get remarkably little comment, despite being things regularly encountered 23:15:59 <04dracoomega> Not always easy to predict what those will be 23:16:00 <02Monkooky> I guess that's true 23:19:37 <04dracoomega> I keep mulling over in my mind how I/we could do better here and I keep coming back to the same issues of "Not wanting to give rejections that I cannot explain in some objective way (and honestly not liking doing that, even when I could give a clear reason)", "Technical changes that seem conceptually fine, but which require actual careful code review to have any useful feedback to give". I mean, is there really any point to "This 23:19:37 seems like a mostly fine idea, and at some point I might have the time/energy to check on it"??? >.> 23:19:50 <02Monkooky> Yes 23:19:53 <02Monkooky> absolutely yes 23:20:07 <04dracoomega> Well, that was emphatic 23:21:10 <02Monkooky> that would be fantastic to see; that tells me that I'm not just shooting my PR into the void, that it's worth trying to submit something polished and good 23:25:21 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Incidentally, I have wondered back and forth about whether or not making feature request issues of areas that would directly attract dev attention would be a good idea or not, considering the size of the backlog that stands....) 23:25:53 <06regret-⸸nde※> (It'd probably be a rejections magnet.) 23:29:09 <02Monkooky> 'I have not done serious review but am skeptical of this idea' is also good; it tells me I might want to expound more on my reasoning, or if I'm similarly inclined maybe just close the PR- but probably don't want to spend too long on the idea until said review has come in and it still feels better than the feeling that your PR has simply been ignored out of hand. 23:31:57 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-768-g0f6f1dd4b9 (34) 23:34:42 <02Monkooky> Also I wonder if this process could be reworked as more supervising than taking ownership- with the idea being if Monk submits some broken-ass new spell and it turns out to be broken and/or ass, the expectation is Monk will fix it or it gets reverted, rather than having someone else promise to keep it maintained (until version change anyways) 23:35:33 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-768-g0f6f1dd4b9 (34) 23:36:54 <06regret-⸸nde※> Such desires for quick and direct statements, while entirely reasonable, comes with... quite a few spread-out burdens. It's an immediate judgment as either vouching for its quality or condemning it, and it's a promise to look further into possible very tangled matters. From the evaluator's side there is a lot of easy space to overthink one's self into silence, or to come off as cruel and dismissive and passive aggressive 23:36:54 without meaning to. I guess these could be emphasized as "not final judgements" in a certain capacity, with e.g. PF having swept over 10 issues just a few hours ago...? 23:38:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> Also, I am highly doubtful the sprawling and tempestuous playerbase, regularly highly disconnected from even reading commit messages, will parse said actions as supervision compared to just partial ownership. 23:58:39 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-768-g0f6f1dd4b9