00:31:55 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-290-g598725c5f2 (34) 01:35:54 <02Monkooky> big fan of celestial apes 01:41:01 dracomuter (L27 FoFi) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 696: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Tomb:3) 02:06:12 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-290-g598725c5f2 (34) 02:06:12 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-290-g598725c5f2 (34) 02:16:20 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 02:16:20 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 03:16:43 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-313-g1e3d793fa3: Allow vampires to always shapeshift 10(33 minutes ago, 5 files, 7+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e3d793fa3c7 03:16:43 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-314-g88f6d5a977: Bugfix double poison immune mutation text 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88f6d5a97773 03:16:43 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-315-ge44b9d8e64: Remove an unnecessary vampire form check 10(15 seconds ago, 3 files, 0+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e44b9d8e6450 04:31:29 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 04:51:28 <09gammafunk> I think they're working but the page hasn't been updating because its configuration isn't updated for 0.32. I can probably fix this later today once I look up how it's done 05:31:21 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-290-g598725c (34) 05:48:36 Hello! I'm interested in running my own server (private as first step). I've searched about minimum and recommended heardware requirments (CPU, RAM, disk space) already - but there's now info about it on the Web. Can someone give me some advice what hardware is appropriate for server? If there's server owners/admin - let me know about your load on server in general? For example - each 10 players online give us this or that load. Thanks! 06:01:51 <05icoson> for a private server, I would recommend starting with the smallest option your host provides (and then scale if needed), e.g. I would imagine that a private server with a few players would run just fine on a digitalocean $6/mo droplet (1GB ram / 1 cpu / 25GB disk; the 25GB might not ultimately be enough even for a small server though) 06:04:48 <05icoson> the official servers are extremely varied I would say 06:05:44 <05icoson> CBR2 is currently like 16cpus + 32GB ram + 1TB disk, cao remains a potato (though with a recent disk replacement) 06:07:33 <05icoson> though tbf it's a fully hosted potato box, which makes a big difference 06:08:25 <02Monkooky> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara 06:10:45 Wow, 16CPU/32GB is rather great! Ok, thanks, icoson. I believe, wrapping all the stuff in Docker container is good, isn't it? It's a bit mess in my head from last night reading =) I'm going to boostrap a new istance at the weekend. 06:11:30 <05icoson> currently there is no really great docker setup, I'm not sure I can recommend that 06:13:06 <05icoson> (it would be nice if that existed, but it's non-trivial to do) 06:23:15 <07zureal> CBR2 is actually 2TB of storage now, after the last upgrade 🙂 06:23:15 <07zureal> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1206953734656106577/image.png?ex=65dde242&is=65cb6d42&hm=039d7fa11bdfe935a392175fadb491b46275dad1ad4863e8e7de4864870fa71c& 06:23:38 <07zureal> I believe in excess, clearly 06:30:46 Yeah, Docker would be nice, but it brings additional maintaining expense. I think, minimal/recommended requirments could be added in project wiki (Github), just 1 paragaph is enough. I've searched for that for 30 min and even registered @ libera and entered this chat =) 06:30:55 <02sentei> I have been running a fork server from a docker container with volumes for persistent storage, works pretty well for me: https://github.com/Rytisgit/dgamelaunch-dcss-forks-server 06:34:09 @sentei interesting... And how do you update your server and container when the time has come? New stable version release, for example 06:35:57 And as I can seem you are not up to date with the main repo, so probably the diff is going to expand 06:37:11 This seems like a dangerous path 06:39:08 <02sentei> if the files which need to be updated are baked into the image, then simply update the image, push to dockerhub or similar and then you can have the server pull the new image and restart the docker container, otherwise you can exec into the running image and run a script 06:59:09 @sentei , your repo is behing - but the most changes are simply formatting. Only bin/publish*.sh seems to be container-specific, bin/publish.pl - brings some more options and directories with configs. I appreciate you've made it possible to run it in Docker. Is it worth to sync with the main repo in near future? 07:03:50 *behind 07:08:51 <02sentei> for my uses, it has been running fine, but I will update it to match the main repo 07:42:11 qwarkbark: FWIW crawl.montres.org.uk is i3-4150T with 4GB memory 07:43:02 But we have at most 4 simultaneous games; it used to be a Raspberry Pi 3. 07:52:51 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-292-g56b2e88d28: Add foul flame. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 45+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56b2e88d28fd 07:52:51 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-293-g1d1fc56e0a: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(12 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d1fc56e0a83 07:52:51 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-g166adb7196: Reflavour glowing mutation as foul glow mutation. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 20+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/166adb7196d2 07:52:51 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-295-gc9bef7db84: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(22 hours ago, 6 files, 29+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9bef7db8481 07:53:55 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-316-g86d9027f53: Allow bloodless vampires to lose poison 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86d9027f53ab 08:06:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-291-gde4d33178e: Rework glowing mutation into foul glow mutation. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 17+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de4d33178e2a 08:06:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-292-gc369657121: Add foul flame. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 45+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c369657121c9 08:06:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-293-ga03a9ab01e: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(13 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a03a9ab01e4f 08:06:28 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-gbd6251796f: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(22 hours ago, 6 files, 29+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bd6251796f6b 09:08:00 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-317-gf62547c6c3: Tweak Vp vampiric bite 10(9 seconds ago, 2 files, 9+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f62547c6c3e1 09:45:37 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-g8136f24813: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(23 hours ago, 6 files, 33+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8136f248139a 10:13:49 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-g5d482649ba: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(24 hours ago, 6 files, 33+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d482649ba12 10:14:52 03elliptic02 07* 0.32-a0-291-gfdec872538: Fix reversed logic for octopode offhand punches 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fdec8725385a 10:16:45 <05icoson> huh, do you have a chroot in the container? 10:18:06 <05icoson> I guess the commit title "its limping along! (no chroot docker version with trunk working)" implies no 10:19:04 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-292-g3931deb8f3: Rework glowing mutation into foul glow mutation. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 17+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3931deb8f3e4 10:19:04 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-293-gdbc21d3775: Add foul flame. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 45+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dbc21d377529 10:19:04 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-gcc029f435b: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(15 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc029f435baa 10:19:04 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-295-g90a2d2714a: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(24 hours ago, 6 files, 33+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/90a2d2714aeb 10:32:32 <05icoson> haha wow, it looks like this is modifying my testing container to actually be usable, I'm impressed 10:33:46 What is going on? I didn't catch it. 10:34:14 <05icoson> in sentei's fork of dgamelaunch-config 10:34:44 <09gammafunk> I really need to merge my own changes to dgamelaunch-config into master so I can have cdi run off of it 10:34:52 <05icoson> there was a prior docker setup there (which I wrote, somewhat painfully) but it was really designed for testing a standard non-dockerized server setup 10:35:27 <05icoson> @gammafunk yes, at some point I would really like to merge the permission stuff 10:35:30 <05icoson> at least 10:35:37 <09gammafunk> maybe I can try to get that done this week 10:35:38 <05icoson> so that other servers can use it 10:36:00 <09gammafunk> even the bot situation is improving, since cdi is going to become official and will be tracked 10:36:09 <09gammafunk> I don't need separate launchers for a "bot" install 10:36:23 <09gammafunk> instead I set bot arguments in the dgamelaunch.conf, import those into the normal launchers 10:36:35 <09gammafunk> and just have those check for bot user and add the args when applicable 10:37:06 <09gammafunk> so having the bot stuff in there is less weird without these separate launchers to maintain 10:37:18 <09gammafunk> also I don't then need links to the bot-only installs in lobby 10:38:08 <09gammafunk> ok, I'd like to fix this CDO trunk page problem, I need to look up how to fix this (hopefully it's in discord history) 10:39:10 <09gammafunk> heh > Presently there's a repository that manages the web files for non-wordpress > pages on CDO like the splash and download pages. This repo is cloned to > ~/dcss-website, and the origin repo on github is maintained by chequers, > who can grant push access to new users. It's best to update the files in > the dcss-website/site in the repo, make a commit for the change, and then > copy the download.htm file to 10:39:10 the live ~/website directory. > > Ideally you'll also push the commit to chequers' origin repo. In the future > we'll probably move the website repo to the github crawl group and better > integrate it to the CDO website directory to avoid manual copying. 10:39:21 <09gammafunk> would be good to update these release instructions 10:39:34 <09gammafunk> and to maybe include a reminder about the cdo trunk page config and how to do it 10:42:53 <05icoson> I think I know if you don’t figure it out 10:43:15 <09gammafunk> ok it's ~/bin/update-trunk-indices.py it seems 10:43:25 <05icoson> Yeah 10:43:37 <09gammafunk> let me take a stab at it, but I can ping you if I get stuck 10:43:46 <09gammafunk> (and hopefully I can update our release doc to mention this for next time) 10:48:12 <09gammafunk> ok, page updated! I'll update the release doc in a bit 10:57:43 Can we also have a new players wave into the game? =) More players, more games, records, competitiveness. Maybe everyone interested could run streams on Twitch (for example, set a period for several days to spike live stats for DCSS), more Twitter/Reddit activity? 10:59:01 <05icoson> the tournaments (one of which just ended) kinda do that, though they aren't specifically tailored towards bringing new players in 10:59:55 Yep, exactly. Something is missing for attraction. 11:02:13 <09gammafunk> I mean, that's up to any community member who wants to put the effort into said streaming/waving/activity :gammafHeh: 11:03:02 <09gammafunk> Devs and server admins have more than enough on their plates around release time (and really at any other tie) than to try to also run special activities themselves 11:04:03 <09gammafunk> We do have a few community members who regularly stream, including during tournaments, but it's a lot of effort to try to coordinate any kind of event, and the tournament stretches our resources thin as it is 11:05:41 <09gammafunk> Apparently I'm actually converting the release guide to markdown and rewriting a bunch of it, but it's pretty well overdue. There's a lot of stuff in there that doesn't track with how we do releases these days 11:05:53 <09gammafunk> Including, of course, the inevitable mention of CRD.... 11:10:27 Yep, I agree, devs and admins are doing big work, so very thanks for them. And that's my "point of pitty". So much work, but some specific of the game makes a barrier (yes, crawl is a bit oldschool and hard to begin for most of youngsters). But I believe, the main reason is simple - it's really hard to know the game exists. One can be interested and amazed with the game, but I don't know how it can it be done in certain steps. 11:12:56 I think it might be instructive to consider that NetHack has comparable levels of online play and its existence is about as common knowledge as any traditional roguelike 11:18:39 <09gammafunk> @icoson in case you have time to look into this: cdo's trunk builde is ~120 commits behind master for some reason. I can poke later this evening 11:22:38 One extra idea for players (not really for beginners, but why not) - weekly tournaments online, maybe anchored for equal seed and/or class, running just between "new version tournaments". The main idea is to give ppl tools for competition and on the other hand - make it possible to watch running games, compare leaders and so on. That's what the audience really like to watch in general. Probably players themselves of community streamers could comment 11:22:40 it in a meaningfull manner (As you know, things on the screen flashes quickly sometimes, but some new tools for WebUI can help to make a clear "big picture", what is going on and who's doing well right now, IDK). 11:25:13 I can try to dive into the project, but I hardly do something difficult in C/C++. I used to write some HTTP API backends with Python 11:28:53 there were a few things like that back when preseeded games were added (crawl challenges) iirc 11:35:29 <05icoson> people have run tournament-like things in between release tournaments, crawl sudden death challenge and crawl cosplay challenge (which is still going on) 11:36:00 <05icoson> a subcommunity I'm in for several years when I was just a normal player had monthly (I think?) combo challenges that were very fun for a while 11:36:24 <05icoson> I do think energy for something that is ultra-regular doesn't necessarily persist 11:36:36 <05icoson> weekly is a lot, over a longer time period 11:37:02 <05icoson> crawl cosplay has a pretty dedicated group of volunteer organizers; even they at some point almost called the whole thing off when they had gone through all the uniques 11:37:21 <05icoson> anyways, we are very excited for community members to run these things! 11:38:18 <05icoson> dev energy is not going to reliably support us doing more than we currently do along these lines I suspect 11:39:39 <05icoson> the subcommunity monthly challenges I mentioned were great for a while but reached a complete saturation point after a few years (can't remember exact timeframe) 11:40:34 <05icoson> cpo's weekly challenge is also nice: https://crawl.project357.org/#lobby 11:40:52 <05icoson> that one is relatively automated I think 12:14:52 <02sentei> it originally was done with chroot but I changed it to a non-chroot version to simplify code, since you left a note saying it was unnecessary, and it simplified the code,: I suspect that if you were really containerizing crawl, there wouldn't be much point in running dgamelaunch in a chroot. Just go with a non-chroot setup. 12:35:28 <05icoson> yeah, arguably just running it in a docker environment accomplishes everything a chroot already does 13:13:32 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-g3f8472a6a7: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(18 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f8472a6a780 13:13:32 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-295-g15d3ebad88: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(27 hours ago, 6 files, 33+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/15d3ebad8879 13:17:39 <02Monkooky> ...what's with this commit appearing so many times 13:20:06 <04dracoomega> Seems to be something weird about how the bot is interpreting updates to a pull request's commits 13:20:56 it re-shows force pushes 13:21:19 if it were smart enough it could probably show that too, I've seen other bots do it 13:21:26 <06pleasingfungus> it’s a good commit. 13:25:01 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-292-g751ec8d2e7: Tweak punctuation. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/751ec8d2e716 13:26:05 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-293-g49d71c0668: Rework glowing mutation into foul glow mutation. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 17+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/49d71c066805 13:26:05 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-294-ga7951e1157: Add foul flame. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 45+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a7951e115773 13:26:05 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-295-gca8a57e575: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(18 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca8a57e5756d 13:26:05 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-296-gba5436d41f: Add foul flame melee attack flavour for monsters. 10(27 hours ago, 6 files, 33+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ba5436d41f9e 13:34:56 <06dolorous_84348> I know I've been force-pushing a lot, but I think I finally have it working and cleaned up code- and commit-message-wise. I'm still concerned about damage numbers (I'm not good enough at playing this game at high levels to test it there), but having nothing be immune to foul flame should be compensated for by its being limited to melee attacks, its being tied to glowing, and its being a tier-3 DS mutation. Also, the only monster 13:34:57 it shows up in is the rare Pan lord, although the monster bot does handle it if it's added to monsters (tested by temporarily adding it to the sun demon). 14:02:17 <06dolorous_84348> Also, the thing about Zin's removing the cosmetic orc mutation when the other gods don't gave me an idea. Given the discussion awhile back about how to put little bits of lore in-game, assuming things go that way, there could be one bit of graffiti saying "Chaos upon you, Zin! I chose to be an orc! It's not an impurity!" Or something along those lines. 14:11:29 zin doesn't remove your mutations usually 14:12:47 Maybe Zin's mut->cmut does it? 14:13:44 <04dracoomega> I mean, very specifically in this case, Zin undoes any physical orcification if the player worshipped Beogh and then abandoned for Zin for some reason 14:13:54 <04dracoomega> This is an entirely cosmetic effect 14:14:55 <04dracoomega> The graffiti thing is cute. I know Index's interest in decorative historical tapestries and various tiny text snippets like those sort of depended on feeling she had enough different things they could say or depict, and this is a fairly high bar probably 14:24:28 <06dolorous_84348> Maybe there should be a wiki page or something to collect such bits of lore? 14:25:03 <06dolorous_84348> 🙂 14:30:39 <06regret-⸸nde※> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Decoration-type-spree-for-0.32#apocryphal-tapestries 14:31:09 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I've been a little slow in getting all the steps of the new decorations in, so a bunch of this page is done and a bunch of this page isn't) 14:31:32 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also been waiting on tile offerings) 14:32:46 <06regret-⸸nde※> (but I'd be up for divine tapestries or... message board murals? with enough material, yes; I'm just letting ideas for that trickle in and percolate while I adjust giant chunks of vaults slowly forever) 14:34:36 <06dolorous_84348> I should have guessed there was one. (I've had trouble finding particular wiki pages.) Coolness. 14:34:51 <06dolorous_84348> I have some ideas. I just need some time to get them written down. 14:35:49 <06dolorous_84348> Lore-wise, anyway; tile-wise, I'm not all that good at them. 14:38:02 <06dolorous_84348> And the part about Yred being part of a triumvirate... so there were three gods of good even in those long-ago days. Which god of good filled Yred's old slot, I wonder? 14:39:54 I've always felt Ely was in some sense different from 1 and Z 14:40:32 <06dolorous_84348> That sounds right. 15:48:20 <06dolorous_84348> Just stuck in a few more god fragments on the wiki, referencing Zin and orcishness, very old TSO who marked all orcs as evil and old Beogh with the sea of blood (which fits the new lore about orcs' exodus to the dungeon; I'm guessing the surface orcs are either extinct or extremely few in number and living in hiding?), and a bit of anti-good god and pro-Yred/whoever sentiment (probably written by some sapient undead or 15:48:21 demonspawn, right?). Hope I have the right idea. 16:11:09 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-293-g817a28345e: Fix hostiles beyond able to follow the player through portals (various) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/817a28345ea7 16:11:09 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-294-gd28b14363d: Charge artefact text to account for Mountain Dwarf ability (ge0ff) 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 13+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d28b14363dd7 16:23:05 -!- ssm__ is now known as ssm_ 16:25:02 <02Monkooky> man it's lookin kinda difficult to make tentacles attack on kraken turn 16:27:05 <06pleasingfungus> can you copy spectral weapons 16:27:13 <06pleasingfungus> fineff.cc etc 16:27:48 <02Monkooky> hm, that's a very different approach 16:27:53 <06pleasingfungus> probably don’t literally want a fineff but could use similar logic? 16:27:57 <06pleasingfungus> idk what you have in mind 16:30:25 <02Monkooky> so, right now i'm looking at move_child_tentacles which is kalled on kraken turn and iterates through each tentacle and moves that tentacle 16:30:39 <02Monkooky> with the thought of calling something akin to _melee_attack_player when it bumps 16:31:12 <06pleasingfungus> sure, sounds reasonable? 16:34:03 <02Monkooky> but there's an awful lot of code surrounding _melee_attack_player , or dealing with bumping player allies, or dealing with bumping friendlies 16:35:36 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-292-g751ec8d2e7 (34) 16:36:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-294-gd28b14363d (34) 16:37:51 <02Monkooky> maybe in the morning this'll be easier 16:39:22 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-295-g33d090a6ea: Fix spelling. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33d090a6eaa7 17:01:30 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-295-g33d090a6ea 17:02:57 <04dracoomega> I swear, since Crawl started auto-redirecting 'artifact' in searches (some many years ago), I will simply never remember the spelling convention there >.> 17:05:02 <06dolorous_84348> It took me awhile to get used to it, and I still have to google a lot of the other Australian spellings to make sure of things. 17:40:41 <08wormsofcan> jellofish 17:40:41 <08wormsofcan> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1207124218437959710/jellyfish.png?ex=65de8108&is=65cc0c08&hm=4b3170d32fe438cb7b291a430720874850f937622b431960c7ede09ecf04da36& 17:41:39 <06regret-⸸nde※> ooooo 17:42:04 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...it's a shame PF isn't that satisfied with formless jellyfish as a design, since that's a great tile 17:42:39 <04dracoomega> It does look lovely 17:47:42 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...though, I wonder if it'd be fine if it was just swapped out of V for some other designs and had its numbers tweaked upwards, keeping a ranged debuff fish for Shoals and a between-jelly-melee-and-eye-debuffing variety monster for Slime but keeping its homes further away from vampire knights in Depths / Crypt) 18:04:18 <06pleasingfungus> plausible… but poor v 18:04:34 <06pleasingfungus> wormcan: sick 18:18:56 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> formless jellyfish has felt fine to me after the most recent buff fwiw 18:19:26 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> like it's still not the most exciting design to be "hornet with blink" but it does work I think 18:20:53 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> paralysis is scary enough that meleeing it with other dangerous monsters around feels not ideal even though it's short enough it's not likely to kill you from full health or whatever 18:21:02 Oneirical (L20 FeHW) ERROR in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 1782: Unknown monster spell 'Vhi's Electric Charge' cast by Ognian (Vaults:4) 18:26:33 <06pleasingfungus> classic ognian 18:35:51 <04dracoomega> ???? 18:36:01 <04dracoomega> Did something get bessed up when rebasing? 18:37:49 <06regret-⸸nde※> my current V-thinking was to help some of the very same-y bands by having a deep [shapeshifter] troll that uses the liquid reaching talisman design whenever that exists (since trolls have better shapeshifting apts than most of the rest of their apts), and a yaktaur sigilcaster that haunts with sigils of binding (because then even if a yaktaur / captain walks in and gets stuck it can still keep firing arbalest bolts at the 18:37:50 player, though this might need some screwing with vault warden equipment) 18:38:45 <04dracoomega> Also that recurring 'repel missiles aura' enemy, once repel missiles itself is tweaked 18:41:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> some sort of pest-like vortex that keeps sweeping up all the loose missiles and equipment everywhere but which is tolerated because it's tame to the equipment owners and not to intruders 18:41:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also as a lead-in into those armoury gyres whenever those designs get settled) 18:48:54 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-296-gbfd232f637: Fix apostles still getting player Vhi's instead of monster Vhi's 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bfd232f637da 19:01:25 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-318-g589f7f2069: Expel poison when you return bloodless 10(61 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/589f7f2069ae 19:26:31 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-297-gb47861556a: Make exactly one type of fountain not count as a watery feature (elliptic) 10(30 hours ago, 15 files, 19+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b47861556a4d 19:26:31 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-298-ge446cd8fad: Vault review again again 10(15 minutes ago, 24 files, 326+ 309-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e446cd8fad10 19:26:31 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-299-gfced3f9c7c: New formless jellyfish tile (CanOfWorms) 10(60 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fced3f9c7c9d 20:34:20 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-300-g7f9cf8a452: Rework glowing mutation into foul glow mutation. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 17+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7f9cf8a452ec 20:34:20 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-301-g997c81d6db: Add foul flame. 10(2 days ago, 9 files, 46+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/997c81d6db20 20:34:20 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-302-g299eda8f7b: Add foul flame melee attack for players. 10(25 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/299eda8f7bcf 20:34:20 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-303-ge834997af1: Add foul flame melee attack weapon and flavour for monsters. 10(34 hours ago, 15 files, 87+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e834997af165 20:34:20 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-304-g72cbe35d31: Add foul flame weapon attacks to Pan lords, rarely. 10(34 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72cbe35d3185 20:41:04 <06dolorous_84348> Had to revamp this again after finding out that the main difference between attack weapons and attack flavors is that you only get warnings for the former. 20:41:30 <06dolorous_84348> So now Pan lords get it as a fake weapon instead (like SPWPN_WEAKNESS and the like). 20:46:16 <06dolorous_84348> Although all the code is in place to make real weapons of it (tested via wizard mode). 20:47:50 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> @dracoomega I played a beogh game, it's certainly far better and cooler than oldbeogh (but still not for me because of my general dislike of allies) but I did have one serious interface grievance - I kept on being offered a new apostle and having no way to compare it with my existing apostles or to compare my existing apostles with each other because one or more of my existing apostles were dead. I actually considered keeping a 20:47:50 notepad document open with a paste of all the information on all of my existing apostles at all time to avoid this... anyway, if it is at all feasible to let the player see full information about their dead apostles (both xv and what their equipment is) it would be a big improvement I think 20:49:25 <04dracoomega> I agree. This is something I theoretically want to do to improve the part of the religion interface that still lists their names (that tab is kind of pointless now; made more sense when you had a whole army). Just is a bunch of UI work that I was putting off for some future time. I agree it would be helpful. 20:50:07 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yeah, either in that tab or in the descriptions of the dismiss abilities 20:50:32 <04dracoomega> I think the tab being able to list all of them in short form at once might be the most convenient to the player 20:50:47 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I'm not really sure what short form means here 20:50:59 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> there's a lot of data in xv 20:51:07 <08wormsofcan> having both seems like a good idea 20:52:51 <04dracoomega> Well, rather than the full xv thing (which has a lot of details that are constant between apostles, while not indicating equipment currently at all) I was thinking of essentially a compressed form of like... Name, HP, damage, equipment, spells list. (You wouldn't be able to examine the spells here, but surely the player already know what the spells their apostles do, right?) And then we can maybe fit all 3 of them on the same 20:52:52 page, I think. 20:53:00 <04dracoomega> Arranged in some aesthetically reasonable way 20:53:42 <04dracoomega> So you can see a sort of 'overview' of your followers 20:53:51 New branch created: pull/3537 (61 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 20:54:00 03advil02 {gammafunk} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-1-g479d3df719: docs: update changelog for 0.30.1 10(8 months ago, 2 files, 13+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/479d3df719fb 20:54:00 03PleasingFungus02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-2-ga47d9c1c2b: Finalish changelog update 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 73+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a47d9c1c2b93 20:54:00 03PleasingFungus02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-3-gcd52a999dc: Hide all traces of the time machine (Cilian) 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd52a999dc66 20:54:00 03DracoOmega02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-4-g7434e74bc9: Fix a few errors in the changelog 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7434e74bc912 20:54:00 03DracoOmega02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-5-g8e64d3d7d4: Don't lie about Yred bound soul hp 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8e64d3d7d4a5 20:54:00 03PleasingFungus02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-6-g93d03552b9: Continue unmaking Meteorans (various) 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93d03552b970 20:54:00 03PleasingFungus02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-7-g63ac5cd49f: Cut some less-notable changes (gammafunk) 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/63ac5cd49f90 20:54:00 03PleasingFungus02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-8-gee41c27eb0: Fix a teyepo (cool 3) 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ee41c27eb052 20:54:00 03DracoOmega02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-9-g467895fc2f: Fix a possible crash with casting Sticky Flame at very low power 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/467895fc2f45 20:54:00 03wheals02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3537 * 0.31-b1-10-g7987dcde52: Show real file name for rc errors (#2536). 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7987dcde5293 20:54:00 ... and 51 more commits 20:54:04 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> I feel like you want AC and EV too at least 20:54:06 <04dracoomega> (Might even have room to look at an available recruit in the same page? Would need to try it out to see) 20:54:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> maybe crunching down the equipment into a +X weapon || AC || EV || resists line would help? 20:55:03 <04dracoomega> Well, EV at least doesn't actually scale at all currently and I think AC isn't random, either? (Though does go up with apostle level) 20:55:35 <04dracoomega> All their resists would be listed on the gear 20:55:42 <04dracoomega> They don't have any built-in ones 20:56:07 <04dracoomega> I mean, I haven't started trying to do this, so I'm not sure how well all the space will work out, but it was the general future plan 20:57:45 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> AC definitely varies in ways that are hard to understand from just the gear alone 20:58:49 <04dracoomega> I mean, that should be easy to include regardless, I guess 20:58:50 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> maybe will too? it's extremely opaque to the player which things are scaling with "apostle level" or how consistently that is increasing over time 20:59:33 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> since currently if you want to figure out what is going on with scaling you have to look at xv and then try to subtract out equipment, which isn't always easy 21:00:03 <04dracoomega> That is fair 21:00:10 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> certainly HP/AC/equipment/spells are the main things I was looking at though 21:00:37 <04dracoomega> I had wondered a little about mapping apostle power level onto like... a 'fake xl' and showing the player the xl or something somewhere, but wasn't sure that actually was particularly beneficial. 21:00:44 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> though I kept being confused by why my orcs without rPois weren't dying to poison clouds all the time 21:00:53 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> and checking that they didn't secretly have rPois 21:01:05 <04dracoomega> There should be no unusual protection from clouds or anything 21:01:12 <04dracoomega> No hidden rPois, certainly 21:01:20 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> probably their regen rate and HP is just high enough, yeah 21:01:31 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> just saying that that's the sort of things your players will wonder about 😛 21:01:39 <04dracoomega> Sure 21:02:22 <04dracoomega> Could maybe also embed this in the skill description for dismissing a given apostle, if someone wants to look at them specifically? 21:02:54 <04dracoomega> (Since I'm not sure how obvious the followers tab of the religion menu is to anyone, tbh) 21:03:15 <13qwqwqwqwqwqwqw> yeah, ideally you'd have something in both places 21:04:08 <08wormsofcan> ash has an extras tab I use to determine which curses to take 21:04:17 <08wormsofcan> not sure if other players use it regularly as well 21:06:47 <04dracoomega> Maybe I can print a message the first time each game the player recruits an apostle 21:06:57 <04dracoomega> And be like "Hey, you can use this to look at all of your apostles' stats!" 21:38:11 <06dolorous_84348> One other vague idea. Given the vault review commit comments about how necrophages don't do much, and other undead might be needed, I've noticed that there aren't any undead hound types; everything in the hound genus is of natural holiness, aside from the demonic hell hound and doom hound. 21:44:11 <06regret-⸸nde※> there's a lot of easy theme space for hounds, but the h glyph in console is overflowing and... I'm not sure it has any spare colour-glyph combos left? 21:45:06 <06regret-⸸nde※> (??glyphs[2] really needs an update after the new .yaml rewrite) 21:53:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-300-g409ee8c19d: Reroll apostle names to avoid the player ever having two identical names 10(82 minutes ago, 5 files, 27+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/409ee8c19dea 21:53:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-301-gfa6ab80fcc: Clear apostle list on game start 10(81 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa6ab80fcc3b 21:53:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-302-g6c3d6ff0d8: Don't mark your own apostles for vengeance (Oneirical) 10(80 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c3d6ff0d8ff 21:53:32 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-303-g8574905f7e: Don't let friendly monsters use manifold assault on targets you can't see 10(70 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8574905f7e1d 21:57:31 <06dolorous_84348> After manually checking, there are overlaps already. Lightgray 'h' is both bear and wolf, yellow 'h' is both hound and holy swine, and magenta 'h' is both felid and Natasha. Although bears can't spawn, and felids only spawn in the player-species-monster-equivalent-type vault, so the only real overlap in practice is hounds and holy swine. 21:58:04 <06dolorous_84348> And, yes, all the color combos of 'h' are taken. 21:58:27 <06regret-⸸nde※> holy swine at least... mostly don't appear at any point people would worry about them in comparison to hounds, besides the holy shoals ending 21:58:35 <06dolorous_84348> Point. 21:59:54 <06regret-⸸nde※> (it'd probably be good to do some glyph juggling there, though I'm wary of using the very last remaining glyphs of... j? and... U? just to split up an over-full glyph) 22:03:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> a list I wrote a a little while ago on much emptier glyphs as potential reasonably easier spaces for monsters, not count player species or genus dummies: 3 a for ancients (3? 4?) n for corporeal anthromorphic corpse eaters 4 Q for tengu (and other birdpeople?) 5 r for rodents 5 t for shelled things (turtles and crabs) 5 V for vampires 6 v for vortices 6 F for frogs and flying fish 6 K for kobolds 7 T for trolls 7 c for 'taurs 22:03:07 and satyrs 8 b for bats and birds and butterflies 22:04:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> (thus the thinking over... three vortex monster ideas for Elf and V, another troll, another yaktaur...) 22:04:10 <04dracoomega> Genus dummy monsters basically shouldn't be considered to exist, and I personally think it's probably okay to share a color between a unique and a non-unique monster so long as they have depth ranges that are comfortably apart from each other 22:11:18 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-304-g028c0f8d43: Checkwhite 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/028c0f8d43b3 22:14:03 <06dolorous_84348> The glyph list sounds like a good idea, and, yes, dummy monsters shouldn't count. 22:14:10 <06dolorous_84348> If things work out glyph-wise, then hopefully Yred can eventually be sending their followers barghests or something 🙂 22:16:54 04Build failed for 08master @ 8574905f 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7896639825 22:23:33 <04dracoomega> Huh. Barghests already have a chain motif, too 22:23:40 <04dracoomega> Like Yred has sort of doubled-down on 22:24:06 <06dolorous_84348> Indeed. 22:36:54 <05alexjurkiewicz> about crawl tournaments, I think Advil hit the nail on the head with "energy for something that is ultra-regular doesn't necessarily persist". Competitions like cosplay worked for a long time because the maintainer put in a heap of effort. It's hard to attract new players mid-season, so their numbers start at X and drop steadily. I think weekly challenge is successful. It requires no effort from me, has no persistent 22:36:55 leaderboard, and rewards any effort (you can be #1 on the homepage if you are the first death) 22:54:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-305-gcc768c7156: Fix Mountain Dwarf titles (particleface) 10(12 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc768c715645 23:02:22 <05alexjurkiewicz> Here's my branch for the webtiles client I've been working on: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/compare/master...alexjurkiewicz:crawl-ref:webtiles-client#diff-f064e44be5b5e96deae35d0f5c990b1273f7f19a19665998cdcd04034f1068b6 (I'll probably force-push to this branch in future, the anchor is to crawl-ref/source/webclient/README.md which includes quickstart instructions for local testing.) The test branch lets you connect the webtiles 23:02:23 client to any webtiles server -- CPO, CBRO, CKO, and CAO are supported natively. In theory, you should be able to complete a game of trunk now with this client on any of those servers. In practice, the tiles will only match when connecting to a local webserver. 23:02:30 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-306-gfed3edf829: Fix an || 10(74 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fed3edf829f4 23:04:02 <06pleasingfungus> wow! 23:10:10 <05alexjurkiewicz> The interesting code is in two places: App.tsx contains most of the logic which handles messages from the game client / webtiles server. And dungeonRenderer.ts is responsible for drawing the current view to a canvas. Performance is already acceptable, but there's incredible amount of redraw (the image is redrawn every time you move the mouse over the dungeon, and on every webtiles message). So there's lots to optimise. In terms 23:10:10 of key future work, the three big ones are: get autologin working/stable, complete dungeon rendering (most tile flags are not rendered, eg monster health, exclusions, status icons, etc), and get cross-version tiles matching 23:20:46 <06pleasingfungus> sounds awesome 🙂 23:21:13 <06pleasingfungus> in an ideal world, the status icons wouldn't be as duplicative as they are at present... but maybe that'd require more work on the server side 23:21:19 <06pleasingfungus> not sure if you're doing much there at present 23:34:41 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-306-gfed3edf829 (34) 23:36:13 <05alexjurkiewicz> Currently for each cell, the server sends a list of tile flags plus the tile index of several layers (bg, base, fg, cloud, doll, mcache). The client has hardcoded behaviour to render everything in the correct order. Intra-cell offsets for tiles are partially handled on both sides 😬 . It would be nice to push all rendering logic to one side or the other. I don't feel confident making this call .But I also suspect my preference 23:36:13 (put it all in JS) is not what the devteam would go for. I prefer pushing everything to JS because I only consider webtiles and I suck at C++ 23:37:24 <06pleasingfungus> ha 23:37:40 <06pleasingfungus> it seems impossible to push it all into js 23:37:47 <06pleasingfungus> because we also render in c++ for local tiles 🙂 23:37:52 <06pleasingfungus> and we'd rather not duplicate that, right? 23:41:21 <05alexjurkiewicz> remove it and use webtiles locally 😏 23:42:51 <05alexjurkiewicz> I'd recommend 2gb minimum. Compiling takes 1gb and you want to avoid OOMkills if there are games running while crawl compiles 23:42:54 <06pleasingfungus> ah, the electron app era of crawl… 23:43:24 <06pleasingfungus> dang, we take 1gb to compile? what on earth are we doing?! 23:43:30 <05alexjurkiewicz> linking i think 23:43:42 <06pleasingfungus> c… 23:43:57 <06pleasingfungus> i wonder how much work it would be to put the local tiles item menu in webtiles 23:44:07 <06pleasingfungus> very frequently requested for many years 23:46:21 <05alexjurkiewicz> i realised while trying to figure out better dungeon tooltips, the main issue is that the data you want to display is kept mostly serverside. The game binary doesn't proactively tell the webtiles client about that stuff. So the first step is to update tileweb.cc so that it pushes the data to client and keeps them in sync with the truth. Adding the list on client side is then trivial (at least in my current branch it is) 23:51:10 <06pleasingfungus> nice! 23:51:22 <06pleasingfungus> unrelated: 23:51:47 <06pleasingfungus> @qwqwqwqwqwqwqw idea: what if we give water form af_drag instead of reaching? 23:53:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> they do work together :P 23:55:46 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-306-gfed3edf829