00:19:49 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-147-gc54845c05a: checkwhite 10(51 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c54845c05a06
00:22:58 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-148-gd53c39881d: unbrace 10(27 seconds ago, 4 files, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d53c39881d78
00:30:45 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-163-g159c032296 (34)
00:55:11 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-163-g159c032296
01:31:11 <Cbrotell> Stable (0.31) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31.0-12-g77e489cdc1
02:05:56 <Kelbell> Stable (0.31) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31.0-12-g77e489cdc1
02:05:56 <Kelbell> Stable (0.31) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31.0-12-g77e489cdc1
02:17:55 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-149-g6edc389b38: Show revivify when you don't have enough blood 10(9 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6edc389b38d3
02:21:04 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-150-gbb02d20f2f: Tweak a Jory death message 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb02d20f2ff3
02:44:24 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-163-g159c032296 (34)
02:44:24 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.32-a0-163-g159c032296 (34)
03:00:03 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
03:00:03 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
03:23:47 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/3531 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3531
03:23:47 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3531 * 0.32-a0-164-g5cba561378: Bugfix corrosion display for weapons in webtiles 10(59 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5cba561378e6
04:30:51 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
05:02:26 <Henzell> Stable (0.31) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31.0-12-g77e489c
05:32:42 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-163-g159c032 (34)
06:40:52 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> was thinking about DracoOmega's issues with lack of ally buffs
06:41:21 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> I think giving allies resistance might be a useful and interesting effect
07:36:40 <Discord|> <05i​coson> @pleasingfungus just one more general thought about steel elves based on the monstercrawl implementation: it would overall be a lot cleaner for players and for UI stuff if it didn't matter which hand held which weapon. I realize there are many ways in which this is tricky and the current implementation gives a lot of flexibility. But I wonder if that flexibility adds much. E.g. possible changes: if SE player is holding one weapon, UC is
07:36:40 <Discord|> unavailable, and empty offhand always and only does aux punch. If SE player is holding two weapons, hit order is randomized
08:19:36 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-164-g1ab3b3d67e: Reenable glowing players; let them burn monsters. 10(14 hours ago, 5 files, 53+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ab3b3d67eec
08:19:36 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 {dolorous} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-165-g213f8e78ad: Don't crash 10(12 hours ago, 3 files, 17+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/213f8e78add4
08:19:36 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-166-g95744da64c: Use 100 power again; cut scorch damage in half. 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95744da64c53
08:19:36 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-167-g9f7f327383: Remove extra fire activation randomness. 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f7f32738392
08:19:36 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-168-gd3c1882f84: Give burned monsters 3 turns of Corona afterward. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d3c1882f8418
08:42:25 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> advil: yes, i agree completely and am already planning to change that
08:42:36 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-169-gf940b4271b: Randomize Corona turns to 1d3; add msg for it. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f940b4271ba2
08:44:19 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> hence the aux punch change i pushed to master last night, disabling it with a held weapon per folx’ expectation
08:46:54 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> @wheals i saw your commit comment but just woke up
08:47:01 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> will debug shortly 🙂
08:47:28 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> current list of planned changes is: - randomize hit order (which weapon swings first) - if you’re holding at least one weapon, don’t give a uc or aux punch attack  - maybe allow reaching even if only your off hand weapon has reach, or disable reaching if your offhand doesn’t have reach (latter is maybe simpler but feels sad)
08:49:35 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> after that i think i’ll be pretty close to merger
08:50:31 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> though at least two (2) devs are on record as disliking the current theme, which makes me a little sad and would be good to resolve
08:50:44 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> (maybe three? i forget draco’s take)
08:53:25 <Noisytoot> why not reach only with weapons that can reach (if you have a weapon with reach in either hand and try to do a reaching attack, you only use that one. if both weapons can reach, you use both)?
08:54:37 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> that’s ideal but might he harder to code
08:54:48 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> *be
08:55:12 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i’m planning to take a quick pass at it but don’t want to put a ton of time into it
09:12:56 <Discord|> <05i​coson> sounds great, I'd missed seeing the aux commit you mentioned
09:13:24 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yeah, not sure what to do about the reaching special case
09:14:31 <Discord|> <05i​coson> my instinct is that a reaching-targeted attack with reaching+non-reaching wielded should only attack with the reaching weapon at that range, but attack with both at melee range (maybe this is what Noisytoot is describing)
09:14:51 <Noisytoot> yes
09:16:52 <Discord|> <05i​coson> I don't think wielding 1 reaching should enable double reaching though
09:20:14 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-170-g8572ec517d: Turn glowing into a 3-level mutation. 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8572ec517d92
09:30:38 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> to be clear, this is the current behavior - the catch is you can’t reach if your only reach weapon is in your offhand
09:30:56 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> but that’s a smaller ui annoyance than other issues, and probably less critical
09:40:14 <Discord|> <03w​heals> about https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues/3081, would anyone be too broken up if statue mf/op/grey drac were just allowed to swim normally?
09:40:51 <Discord|> <03w​heals> the weirdest thing about the current status quo is that merfolk and octopode statues get the stealth bonus from being in water even though they can't swim
09:41:01 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I didn't have strong negative feelings about theme, for whatever that's worth. Sort of like "Maybe it could have been something more fun/fancy", but not enough to actively push against it. I'd certainly be up for them being something else, mind you.  I will say that in my playtesting game (which got far enough to get 1 rune last night) that attractitis felt almost invisible, though. I think I saw it happen like... once by D:3
09:41:01 <Discord|> (where it still didn't matter). I realize it's probably happening more often than that, but the combination of auto-explore speed it often feel indistinguishable from just coming around a corner into something relatively close by, and a bunch of the time I didn't even notice anything was up until I later on saw clouds somewhere else.
09:41:22 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I was actively surprised at how little it was noticable
09:41:26 <Discord|> <03w​heals> i guess we could also have statue form suppress specifically that mutation (is there even a way to have a specific form suppress a specific mut right now?)
09:43:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Out of curiousity, are there other forms this applies to right now, too?
09:43:56 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Can snake naturally swim? I assume Storm probably flies)
09:44:28 <Discord|> <03w​heals> yeah, this is the only one
09:45:04 <Discord|> <03w​heals> there are some forms (like snake) that give everyone the ability to swim, some that turn off swimming for anyone, and some like blade hands that don't affect swimming at all
09:45:53 <Discord|> <03w​heals> but statue is the only one that stops you from swimming (which mostly means not fumbling), but still lets you survive underwater
09:46:22 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I can see the flavor logic of a statue not naturally swimming, but I'm not really married to this particular behaviour either.
09:46:35 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> pumice form…
09:47:11 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> draco: yeah, “attractitis was minor” is a consistent theme from feedback
09:48:35 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> could make it trigger with a higher chance (1/2? 2/3? 1?), but unclear if that’d help. could cut it, esp since the theme is a bit goofy, but i worry a bit about pushing folx more towards ranged combat
09:49:20 <Discord|> <05i​coson> that sounds fixable
09:50:02 <Discord|> <05i​coson> one thing monstercrawl does is automatically move weapons around between the slots to ensure that position doesn't matter
09:50:29 <Discord|> <05i​coson> so if I were implementing this in the monstercrawl setup I would just autoshuffle (invis to players) so that a single reaching weapon is always in the regular slot
09:50:51 <Discord|> <05i​coson> but there are definitely other ways to do it
09:51:22 <Discord|> <05i​coson> basically if the principle is slot doesn't matter to player, then there's no reason not to adjust slot to what is most convenient for implementation purposes
09:51:46 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> cunning
09:52:39 <Noisytoot> how can a statue move at all?
09:53:22 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> very carefully!
09:54:08 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I do kind of think if you want to keep attractitis, then it definitely needs to be more noticeable. I'm not exactly sure if 'localized higher chance' is the best way to handle this, since it still felt pretty unnoticable even when afterward I could see that it demonstrably did happen. I dunno if maybe happening still rarely, but in 'bursts' makes this more obvious? (But if it's 'the first time something comes into LoS', it often
09:54:08 <Discord|> won't be able to grab multiple things with it at once either....)
09:56:50 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-164-gad12e124b7: Add SentientSupper to the CREDITS 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ad12e124b74c
09:56:50 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.32-a0-165-g93939002d8: Bugfix corrosion display for weapons in webtiles 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93939002d8b9
09:56:59 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> "Does it need to be limited to the first time you see something?" I wonder. Just randomly cast Lesser Blink Enemies Encircling every now and again >.>;
09:57:25 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> Draco and I talked about an "Aura of Resistance" spell before deciding that people would annoy themselves constantly in fights waiting for the allies to cast it before using stuff around those allies- mostly rPois allowing trying to use meph / olgreb's / scrolls of poison, the last of those being a possibility for most characters. even if it was a constant buff on that apostle it could be dispelled, or apostles could keep
09:57:26 <Discord|> falling out of the LOS of one another after enough time....
09:57:53 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.32-a0-166-ge5b9942ccf: Parenthesize (wheals) 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5b9942ccf75
09:58:16 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> Oh, I was thinking as a player power of some stripe
09:58:24 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> draco: i was thinking about that, but i think that creates circumstances in which you want to kite enemies until they pull themselves toward you
09:58:38 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Does it?
09:58:47 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> ...thinking about that again reminds me that once the constriction + repulsion rewrite comes up, though, that an Aura of Repulsion would be somewhat reasonable, though...
09:58:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> sure. imagine you see a speed 10 ranged enemy at edge of LOS
09:58:56 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Oh, like, with individuals. I doubt one wants to kite until one gets surrounded
09:58:56 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> sure
09:59:24 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i have a very silly fix idea
10:00:08 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Aura of Repulsion could definitely be a reasonable thing, since we wanted another enemy to have that anyway
10:00:29 <Discord|> <05i​coson> semi-joke: just set their visible LOS to the attractivitis distance :gloweye:
10:00:45 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> ...player power isn't bad in theory but I think Beogh is pretty burdened as is on the ability front. maybe if it was on a summon (buff martyr?)
10:01:11 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> huh? attractivitis distance is LOS...
10:01:24 <Discord|> <05i​coson> kobold style
10:01:31 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i'm so confused
10:01:41 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> the distance which attractivitis can pull
10:01:47 <Discord|> <05i​coson> the distance they get moved to is what I meant by attractivis distance
10:02:05 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> the thinking behind player activated resistance aura (or whatever form it takes) is mainly that it helps ameliorate the 'oh an aoe spell goodbye friends' problem summoners have
10:02:32 <Discord|> <05i​coson> the non-joke part is that adjust LOS might be a way to bias against ranged also, but that design space is already taken
10:02:41 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> gotcha
10:03:08 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-167-g44130894da: New species: steel elves 10(3 months ago, 79 files, 2235+ 475-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/44130894dab3
10:03:08 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-168-ge36ad7f8e4: Steal blademasters for steel elves 10(10 days ago, 29 files, 78+ 78-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e36ad7f8e4c8
10:03:25 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> putting it on martyr would work!
10:03:58 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> could also be part of torchlight
10:04:06 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I have no idea what you may or may not have just done to steel elves there ^^;
10:04:40 <Discord|> <05i​coson> yeah the compare changes link looks like something went wrong
10:05:05 <Discord|> <05i​coson> although maybe it just got rebased on master with a lot of squashing?
10:05:46 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> no changes, just rebased onto master
10:06:45 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Ah. After i have a very silly fix idea, I thought that you pushed whatever that was, already squashed into the big commit or something
10:07:54 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> silliness ✅
10:08:22 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-169-g6c2cba92a4: Make your attraction apparent 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c2cba92a4c5
10:08:49 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> currently this applies to potions of attraction too, which might be excessive. i can refactor if that's an issue
10:09:32 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (By the way, I want to let my branch sit on experimental for another day or so to try and catch any obvious bugs I may have introduced with the backend rewrite, and after that would probably like to pull into trunk. I... think I'd rather not try and squash it heavily down again, though, not only because of some god entangling, but because I feel there's design process history in it that's actually useful to have for archeological
10:09:33 <Discord|> purposes?)
10:10:06 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> think the main issue there is probably making conflict conflict fixes more painful
10:10:15 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> (for you)
10:11:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> If it's just a measure of work for myself, then trying to split commits or figure out the right order of what squashes into what is also work. (I mean, I will probably do this in trivial cases, but y'know)
10:12:44 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> sure
10:12:55 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> think that overall keeping things split out is reasonable
10:13:02 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> just noting what i expect to be the pain point
10:14:04 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Sure, sure
10:14:41 <Discord|> <05i​coson> it's always nice if there are no intermediate commits that fail to compile, though (but it's not as if the repository history sticks to this, so it doesn't really matter)
10:15:14 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I don't think I'm aware of any (though may have forgotten, of course)
10:15:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> There are intermediate ones that fail debug tests, but that's not the same thing
10:37:38 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-170-g0eadad3aa9: Remove antique code 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0eadad3aa947
10:37:38 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-171-g88e960ce7c: Randomize launcher attack order 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 18+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88e960ce7ca7
10:41:49 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[two-swords-adventure] * 0.32-a0-172-g16bab06a87: Protect elves' delicate hands 10(54 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16bab06a87ac
10:44:22 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I was about to sit down to rip out the vestiges of the player/ally damage-contribution-for-xp thing, now that no allies steal xp anymore, only to realize this is still used to keep you from getting XP from things you weren't even involved in
10:46:17 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Maybe should still make all of these 'multiply by 2' things into 1s, though
10:59:14 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Hmm... I think if player allies banish a monster, they still currently only get 1/2 xp for it
10:59:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Maybe
11:00:06 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> interesting
11:06:08 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Regarding the glowing mutation: after splitting it into 3 levels and adding a corona effect when it hits, I thought I'd like it better than I do. I have an idea to make it more interesting, but it would push it firmly into demonspawn mutation territory. Both because of complexity (as Monkooky pointed out) and because of theme.
11:07:21 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> No, nevermind. Banish itself sets xp contribution properly, so I am wondering how that other codepath is even reached
11:07:53 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> ...wait, does this mean that the player gets double XP for banish kills?
11:08:13 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I think I must be reading something wrong, sorry, since I think that would trip an assert
11:08:29 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Instead of burning monsters with just ordinary fire, make it special fire (e.g. befouling fire) that damages monsters like fire, accounting for resistance, but with two alterations. First, undead and demonic monsters are undamaged, and second, holy monsters are extra damaged.
11:09:04 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Lore-wise, someone tried twisting cleansing flame to their ends (maybe new Yred?), but the good gods' adherence to law turned out to be what kept it from going unstable.
11:09:29 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> So it ended up being a failed experiment, but the beings infused with it escaped and bred true, hence demonspawn with it now.
11:09:55 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Or is that too complicated?
11:13:11 <NotCheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.32-a0-167-g3737fec271: Start shapeshifters with active talisman (#3494) 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3737fec2710b
11:13:11 <NotCheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.32-a0-168-gf394fe61d4: Let statues swim (#3081) 10(70 minutes ago, 3 files, 2+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f394fe61d486
11:13:11 <NotCheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.32-a0-169-gaa9fc57931: Combine swimming and water-safety for forms 10(59 minutes ago, 6 files, 6+ 44-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aa9fc579315d
11:13:11 <NotCheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.32-a0-170-g6027059026: Fix location effects when transforming (#3274) 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 22+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6027059026f0
11:14:50 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Twisted cleansing flame is sort of cute, but I think some of the problem there, on a mechanical level, is that holy monsters almost don't exist, while demons/undead are relatively common (and extremely common in some parts of the game)
11:15:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I mean, I am not independently opposed to more holy monsters existing in places that aren't Holy Pan, but even if we added a few more this would still be true)
11:16:35 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Point. Maybe undead and demons could just take less damage instead of being immune to it, then. Any fire resistance among demons would make it less damaging anyway.
11:19:15 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> Or even if fire resistance blocks all the damage, the corona effect on monsters would still occur, so you'd get something out of it even with fire-immune things.
11:27:49 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Repeatedly banishing 1000 hp rats to try and figure out what is or isn't happening here
11:28:37 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It's one of those situations where the correct result appears to be happening and I have no idea why
11:32:09 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> poor rats!
11:33:57 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Okay, so the part that looked like it was giving xp twice for banishment wasn't actually being hit because the actual death from banishment always has a NON_MONSTER source, even if the player is the one who did it. So the player is given xp contribution when banishment succeeds (in monster::banish()) and then gets no more in monster_die
11:34:11 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Instead, the bug appears to be that allies banishing things gives the player no xp at all
11:34:36 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since they aren't singled out in banish() and they still aren't the source by monster_die
11:36:19 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Is there a good reason banishment always has a NON_MONSTER source instead of the actual source of the banishment, I wonder? It feels like there might be, but I don't immediately know what
11:44:23 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since if is used an actual source, monster_die would already handle xp contribution for it instead of banishment having to do it additionally
11:45:40 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (The 'give contribution equal to monster's remaining hp' is already used for instant death effects like Maxwell's, I think)
11:46:11 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> ...wait
11:47:48 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Okay, there are complications with this T.T
11:49:28 <geekosaur> iirc bitd banishing a monster always gave half xp?
11:49:37 <geekosaur> (not only by allies)
11:50:23 <geekosaur> so banish had to do the xp and prevent monster_die from giving full xp
11:50:38 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Banishment has given full XP for like 4 years now?
11:50:49 <geekosaur> yes, it was more than 4 years ago
11:50:54 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> bitd?
11:51:00 <geekosaur> "back in the day"
11:51:03 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> ahh
11:51:19 <geekosaur> remember I've been playing this since 4.0
11:51:26 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i played crawl once.
11:51:35 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> pretty good game tbh. could be better
11:52:41 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (The 'complication' is more that player kills always have a NON_MONSTER killer index, and it's the kill type used to determine whether that non-monster is you (or just nobody at all), but banishment specifically uses KILL_BANISH instead of, say, KILL_YOU, so it can't bake a source into it)
11:53:00 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Such that it is currently difficult to attribute a banishment kill to the player there
11:53:39 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It is... it is probably a fundamental architecture issue that kill type is a blend of 'Who is responsible' and 'What type of death is this' that don't always play well together
11:54:40 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Why we end up with weird things like KILL_YOU_MISSILE and KILL_MON_MISSILE instead of just a KILL_MISSILE that looks at an agent or something
11:56:03 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (And frankly, naming something KILL_YOU out of an enum with KILL_BANISHED and KILL_TIMEOUT sounds like the thing that is dying is you and not 'Killed in a mundane way by you)
11:56:51 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> but who is responsible if you confuse a monster and they shoot a bolt which bounces off a charmed donald's reflective buckler to hit your allied slime
11:57:05 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The game still has to figure that out somehow
11:57:29 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, I don't know who, but the game picks some answer 😛
11:58:12 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> In any case, I will make banish give xp for allied banishment in a similar place that it currently does for players, and leave this bigger questions to some distant future
11:59:14 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (There's a TODO in the function description for monster_die saying that it ought to just take an actor* agent from 9 years ago now >.>)
12:04:26 <Noisytoot> what changed in version numbering such that 4.0 is older than 0.31?
12:05:28 <Pinkbeast> Stone Soup 0.1
12:05:32 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> 4.0 is before Stone Soup itself started. The original Dungeon Crawl. (DCSS was originally a different group of devs sort of picking up the torch from the originals)
12:05:42 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Or, is it not?
12:05:50 <geekosaur> that's pretty much it
12:05:52 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I guess I don't remember what version number Linley's stopped at
12:06:01 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> And just assumed 'big number' = that
12:06:13 <geekosaur> bzr was main dev for 4.0b26 iirc, but by that point it had already changed hands several times
12:06:15 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since 4.1 was a different fork that petered out
12:06:58 <geekosaur> peterb and gr**nsnark each had forks of bzr's dev codebase, and combined forces to create dcss
12:07:06 <Pinkbeast> 4.x still called itself "Linley's"
12:09:13 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> yes some of this is documented in the History section of the manual
12:10:10 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> a couple years ago I collected what information we had about Linley crawl activity and the foundation of DCSS (the latter mostly being from greensnark's excellent writeup on CDO, which is linked in the History section, I believe, and is recommended reading for anyone interested in the history of DCSS)
12:10:41 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> But substantial portions of 4.1 were used in the creation of DCSS, not just e.g. 4.0x
12:22:50 <geekosaur> sorry, bwr not bzr
12:37:49 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-158-ga0501864f5: Fix Beogh conversion not being offered after abandoning your god 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0501864f594
12:37:49 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-159-gfcfbe8fe38: Remove a leftover from ally kills giving 1/2 XP 10(86 seconds ago, 5 files, 22+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fcfbe8fe385e
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-171-gb99cafbd75: Reenable glowing players; let them burn monsters. 10(18 hours ago, 5 files, 53+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b99cafbd7511
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 {dolorous} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-172-g77f8c784a0: Don't crash 10(17 hours ago, 3 files, 17+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77f8c784a0fb
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-173-g888c50a4bd: Use 100 power again; cut scorch damage in half. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/888c50a4bd55
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-174-g1197749918: Remove extra fire activation randomness. 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1197749918b8
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-175-g0ce74b8a47: Give burned monsters 3 turns of Corona afterward. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ce74b8a47dc
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-176-ge4179e23eb: Randomize Corona turns to 1d3; add msg for it. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 17+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e4179e23eb80
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-177-gf5f1cf731f: Turn glowing into a 3-level mutation. 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 13+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f5f1cf731fc4
12:48:18 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-178-gd822f0e514: Add befouling flame; use it to burn monsters. 10(33 minutes ago, 10 files, 63+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d822f0e5149b
12:52:29 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-179-g5d4028c40f: Unbrace 10(48 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d4028c40f98
13:18:39 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-178-ge3cf579437: Add befouling flame; use it to burn monsters. 10(63 minutes ago, 10 files, 67+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3cf579437a6
13:18:39 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-179-gfbabe1fef8: Move glowing to DS muts; it's at tier 2 for now. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fbabe1fef8e6
14:15:21 <thatboyheplaycra> Feature request 1: Add a tiny stun to lesser beckoning when you pull something non-adjecent. Feels akward when they attack you instantly
14:15:22 <thatboyheplaycra> Featire request 2: Mercy killing is against the law in some countries but you can make an exception for Gell's Gravitas
14:16:45 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> FR #1 there has been suggested a few times and mostly felt reasonable to me
14:17:41 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i pitched #1 and was told that beckoning was quite powerful already and didn't need a buff
14:17:56 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i haven't cast it myself in years, so i deferred action 😛
14:18:15 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> gell's gravitas is a key aspect of the iconic "gell's mage" build and cannot be removed.
14:22:04 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I feel like the last time this came up in the other channel, a month or so ago, most people seemed in favor of it?
14:25:53 <geekosaur> in any case that was a drive-by
14:32:36 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> vroom vroom
14:32:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> hm, i didn't remember much discussion. don't feel strongly in any case
14:41:14 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-180-g23755db155: Revamp glowfire to trigger on attack, not dodge. 10(16 minutes ago, 4 files, 30+ 51-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/23755db155e9
14:42:20 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I don't feel strongly either, but it was a thing I considered trying (since I was going to do the manifold assault shuffle in 0.32 after all)
14:42:44 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> I remember taking part in that discussion with a stance that was positive for current beckoning
14:43:09 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> but I'll need to check what past me was thinking before I defend them
14:47:19 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> ok I found the conversation, but can't find anyone disagreeing with buffing lesser becky
14:47:21 <Discord|> <02M​onkooky> including me
14:53:47 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-181-g63e6f00e6a: Change glowfire references to befouling flame. 10(88 seconds ago, 4 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/63e6f00e6ace
14:55:53 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-182-g46021bb5ff: Also update debug message. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46021bb5ff38
14:57:09 <Discord|> <03s​emi_tonal> i'd definitely disagree with buffing it fwiw (and in particular with buffing it in that way! good riddance to all the old stuns on auxes and holy word and so on)
15:08:26 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-180-g7a9442109b: Revamp glowfire to trigger on attack, not dodge. 10(43 minutes ago, 4 files, 30+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7a9442109b64
15:08:26 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-181-gff022f52aa: Change glowfire references to befouling flame. 10(16 minutes ago, 4 files, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ff022f52aa76
15:55:27 <NotCheibriados> 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-171-g4625e66871: Decorate Pan a little further 10(42 seconds ago, 1 file, 250+ 112-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4625e6687145
15:55:28 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-182-ga82968e243: Make befouling flame use its own damage formula. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a82968e24306
16:04:53 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-160-gfc42c048e8: Unbreak orcish follower speech, adjust some lines 10(8 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc42c048e87f
16:04:53 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-161-gc45a256fdd: Cosmetic orcification 10(6 minutes ago, 4 files, 78+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c45a256fdda4
16:04:53 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-162-gbe9129ddbf: Adjust Mennas's description 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be9129ddbf0c
16:04:53 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-163-g957d043e57: Give Recall Apostles at *1 instead of *3, adjust keybinds 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/957d043e572d
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-172-gfea6deb580: Reenable glowing players; let them burn monsters. 10(21 hours ago, 5 files, 53+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fea6deb580f9
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 {dolorous} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-173-g202162adf1: Don't crash 10(20 hours ago, 3 files, 17+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/202162adf1b4
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-174-g7cba0dbd00: Use 100 power again; cut scorch damage in half. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7cba0dbd002d
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-175-g7ade9cf2f6: Remove extra fire activation randomness. 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ade9cf2f690
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-176-g56c6474bbd: Give burned monsters 3 turns of Corona afterward. 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56c6474bbdef
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-177-gd15e01ddcc: Randomize Corona turns to 1d3; add msg for it. 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 17+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d15e01ddccef
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-178-ga1ac499ecb: Turn glowing into a 3-level mutation. 10(7 hours ago, 2 files, 13+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1ac499ecb3c
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-179-g14f70d34bf: Add befouling flame; use it to burn monsters. 10(4 hours ago, 10 files, 67+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14f70d34bf64
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-180-gf13424663a: Move glowing to DS muts; it's at tier 2 for now. 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f13424663aaa
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-181-gd20b8ff8a9: Revamp glowfire to trigger on attack, not dodge. 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 30+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d20b8ff8a9f3
16:11:11 <NotCheibriados> ... and 3 more commits
16:34:55 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-171-g4625e66871 (34)
16:44:38 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-185-gc7d4509067: Adjust glowing mutation messages. 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c7d4509067b0
16:46:44 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-164-g38874781df: Fix Beogh conversion HP thresholds (Oneirical) 10(73 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38874781dfe2
16:46:44 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07[neoyred_and_newbeogh] * 0.32-a0-165-gfdee503fa7: Fix typoes (Oneirical) 10(61 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fdee503fa7c9
17:37:57 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-186-g2eea3611f1: Rename glowing to befouling glow. 10(11 minutes ago, 9 files, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2eea3611f1ca
17:44:14 <NotCheibriados> 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3530 * 0.32-a0-187-g6b729960e4: Change "foul fire" references to "foul flame". 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b729960e474
17:51:51 <Discord|> <06d​olorous_84348> I am officially sick of the glowing mutation for right now, but I've at least gotten the concept working well after overhauling it. (As for numbers, it's probably overpowered to an extent.)
20:44:03 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> re steel elf theme alternatives:  the idea of 'gnomepunk' keeps coming up - little fella on a big exoskeleton. my big issue with that at present is the equipment question. do they wear boots on the robot parts? do they wear body armour that covers them completely? i'm not super interested in armour restrictions for the species, and it's not clear to me that the theme is intuitive/helpful if we don't add such restrictions.  one
20:44:04 <Discord|> 'split the difference' option would be to do a thing where the creature is normal-sized and living (for resist purposes), but reduced a husk suspended on a metal exoskeleton. Very "General Grevious", for the prequel 'heads. I wonder if that's too close to vine stalkers thematically, though...
20:49:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I don't think it needs armor restrictions. I see a sort of... backpack/exoframe kinda deal. Fits on anything, they otherwise use their limbs for things that aren't weapons.
20:50:06 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The actual metal/mechanical parts don't really cover them up and are technically a small part of them, so no need to do resist stuff that isn't otherwise wanted
20:50:47 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i'm having a hard time picturing this
20:50:56 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> this is a normal-sized species with doc ock robo arms?
20:51:14 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1206447395311849572/latest.png?ex=65dc0ab1&is=65c995b1&hm=865967b604f0f8cf9d10cb7020667d0551fe67c77d005df7559dac356d232c30&
20:51:29 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Haha. I was trying to pull up an image of what I have in mind, somehow getting normal backpacks and then being like "Maybe I'll just say it's like a Steampunk Doc Ock"
20:51:34 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> And then came back to you already saying it
20:51:42 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> ha
20:51:43 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Kinda, yeah!
20:51:55 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i'm confused about why they don't use their normal hands for weapons.
20:52:10 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Because this thing is better! It's so awesome, don't you see?
20:52:12 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Gnome voice)
20:53:18 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, it's demonstrably strong than wielding a weapon normally, according to the test branch ^^;
20:53:36 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> heh
20:53:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> it's not sparking joy in me at present. but who can say.
20:54:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I guess I was always a fan of tinker gnomes doing unwise things with combat technology
20:56:29 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> So it hits a soft spot of personal fondness. (And Rev is a natural fit for something like this, too)  But I mean, I'm not trying to say that you should make your thing in a way that specifically appeals to my own personal aesthetics better ^^;
20:56:55 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> tinker gnomes can certainly be fun. 🙂
20:59:12 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> While you're here, I seem to be unable to find the documentation for the new monster yaml (or even the commit that added it). Where did you put it and why am I blind? ^^;
21:00:46 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I have hit that frightening CONFLICT (modify/delete): crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h deleted in HEAD and modified in b688b288ff
21:03:09 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Ah, found it
21:06:53 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> ah, glad i could help 🙂
21:07:20 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i also have a monster importer that you could run instead of doing it manually, if you prefer
21:07:58 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Too late ^^; (Really, it's fine for just one thing anyway)
21:08:10 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I'm going to have to get used to the syntax regardless 😛
21:08:13 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> lmk if anything is unclear or wrong in the docs! ✨
21:09:06 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The only ambiguity I had was whether the enum prefixes were required in a couple cases, but I guess the answer is universally no
21:09:46 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> yeah
21:10:10 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> the only thing that uses the enum prefixes is corpse tiles overrides, which i specifically note (but hopefully you don't have to interact with those)
21:11:00 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Somewhat amazingly, the giant Beogh commit had exactly 1 other merge conflict besides mon-data.h ceasing to exist)
21:11:06 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (And it was trivial)
21:11:37 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> dang
21:11:40 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> kismet
21:11:52 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, there's still a bazillion commits after this, so we'll see
21:12:31 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since people seem to have been playing Beogh games without any major technical issues, I'm feeling pretty good that the backend rewrite is fine, because most problems it would cause should be major and obvious in any extended norma play, so I'll thinking about pushing this to master tomorrow
21:13:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (And doing some of the rebasing ahead of time)
21:14:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> sounds good
21:15:00 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> think steel elf sadly still needs more time in the oven
21:15:37 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I will play more of it! Both to see how Rev feels from the start of the game, and whether attractitis feels any more noticable with a non-stealth start
21:16:13 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I mean, I didn't train any stealth, but bridgand does start with a leg-up
21:17:00 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> also xposting my other vague thought, inspired by a suggestion from the legendary BountyHunterSAX:  > whenever a steel elf ends a turn without moving (by attacking, casting spells, drinking potions, etc), their next move is 2x slower. (or their next few moves, whatever.)  not sure whether it seems like a good idea, but it's certainly an idea
21:17:47 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> For a second, I was like "That sounds awful; I don't get it?" but I somehow interpreted 'next move' as 'next action' and not just strictly moving your feet
21:18:19 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> And you'd just be trapped in a loop of super-slow
21:18:48 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I guess WJC moves still don't incur this penalty, since you're not standing still, even if you are attacking
21:19:01 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> yeah
21:19:32 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> also, amusingly, Blink would not trigger this (barring very bad luck), but would also not help cure it
21:20:12 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It's somewhat interesting. Not immediately sure on the exact degree to which this is bad (it is certainly bad, of course)
21:20:50 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> A very 'dig in and fight' sort of mechanic, though they're not the tankiest species to want to do that
21:20:51 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> it also triggers on rest, which seems w/e - core thing is that it shouldn't be bad enough that it needs a prompt, or last long enough that you'd want to walk back and forth before going back to autoexplore
21:20:53 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> yeah
21:21:17 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Notably bad for battles against multiple ranged things, I think
21:21:20 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> ha, yes
21:21:26 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Where you will always have several steps to take between kills
21:22:14 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I think even just one step is probably fairly impactful? (And it being just one step means that you need less in the way of indicators or status anything, I think)
21:22:30 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i think you probably do need a status
21:23:09 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I guess. (Like, I was thinking "You can't help but know what action you literally just took", but there is always the 'stepped away from the screen a bit")
21:23:45 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Still makes internal bookeeping easier
21:24:27 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> As I said, I don't feel like I have a great grasp on exactly how this would feel to play, but I am curious
21:25:37 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (At the very least, I think it would cause the player to make combat action decisions differently than other species to a degree that I don't think I feel like Rev currently accomplishes, while still being relatively low-friction?)
21:31:50 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> can take a shot at it after escaping ui hell.
21:44:34 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> What's the current circle of UI hell you're in?
21:47:14 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> randomizing the order of on/off-hand weapon attacks & displaying everything properly in the quiver
21:47:27 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> hitting v to reach, see cleave targets, etc
21:47:37 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> i'm getting there...
21:49:35 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I have hit the worst by-far merge conflict of this entire thing and it's from a one-line change
21:49:51 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> That has somehow created a baffling page-long merge conflict
21:59:05 <NotCheibriados> 03SentientSupper02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3529 * 0.32-a0-151-gd14356dee6: Nerf bloodcraze 10(11 seconds ago, 3 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d14356dee69d
22:01:02 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Well, I think that's done
22:02:05 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Less pain that I expected, actually
22:03:04 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Not going to push tonight, since I want to be free to be around for a while in case this will somehow unknowingly break something, but tomorrow)
22:03:38 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> 0.31 Tournament Results: https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/0-31-tournament-results
23:06:03 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Hmmm.... do we not get automatic crash reports from CPO?
23:27:47 <Discord|> <05a​lexjurkiewicz> CPO doesn't have an IRC bot, if that's what reports them
23:34:34 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Someone in #DCSS mentioned crashes they were having there, related to !lignification. I can reliably get it to crash whenever !lig expires, if I'm in a non-default form. Seems to have been caused by https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6027059026f005a40a62f5607685227131b2ecfe
23:35:01 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> It's easy to fix the crash, but that returns part of the message issue that commit was intending to fix
23:35:14 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-171-g4625e66871 (34)
23:36:02 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Since transform() won't break out of a forced form like !lig (or presumably hostile polymorph)
23:36:34 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (Anyway, automated reports are nice, but I have no idea what's involved with setting that up)
23:42:46 <NotCheibriados> 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.32-a0-172-gc5dd13f2a7: Fix a crash when !lig wears off while having a non-base default form 10(79 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c5dd13f2a747
23:46:17 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> if i add the steel elf slow move thing, undecided whether it would replace rev or attract (or both). the latter feels maybe more problematic
23:48:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Not sure how bad it'll be in practice, and that affects my opinion on that
23:49:07 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (As said earlier, attract probably makes a fine normal badmut (with probably higher frequency) if it doesn't make the cut here)
23:58:09 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-172-gc5dd13f2a7