00:13:36 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-18-g89e19f1974 (34)
01:10:31 <Cbrotell> Stable (0.31) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-b1-18-g61460d1e46
01:31:56 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
01:31:57 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
04:24:03 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1
13:18:24 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I don't suppose anyone knows off the top of their head what the significant difference is between dactions above NUM_DACTION_COUNTERS and those that aren't? Comments refer to the former as 'counted' monsters, but it's not clear to me what that means and several below it seem to do similar things?
13:22:15 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Oh, is this just to let you be able to query in advance how many things the daction would apply to?
13:25:36 <Discord|> <05i​coson> did you grep NUM_DACTION_COUNTERS?
13:26:08 <Discord|> <05i​coson> there's various handling (including serialization) that's different that you can find that way
13:31:18 <Discord|> <05i​coson> tbh I would guess no one knows how to use the counter code any more so no one has added to those in years
13:32:13 <Discord|> <05i​coson> it looks like if you add a daction below that point, there's some code that will automatically set a counter with the number of matching monsters
13:32:17 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Yeah, I searched up all uses of NUM_DACTION_COUNTERS but it was still a little unclear to me the reasoning
13:32:33 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> The best guess I had is, essentially, just keeping track of how many things would be affected
13:33:01 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> ('Counters' made me think it was a kind of timer, at first >.>)
13:33:57 <Discord|> <05i​coson> other code then uses query_daction_counter to check the counters
14:54:59 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out the exact mechanism by which interlevel recall removes the recalled monster from its original floor. Considerng I was the one who wrote that entire system >.>
15:01:55 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I wonder if I should have figured out how to use excursions originally and just delete them directly instead of the next time the level is loaded. Would probably have avoided a slew of bugs
15:02:33 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I still don't properly understand how to use excursions :P)
15:24:02 <Discord|> <05s​astreii> martyr's knell spell icon
15:24:02 <Discord|> <05s​astreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1196942967773069372/Schermata_2024-01-16_alle_23.22.34.png?ex=65b97701&is=65a70201&hm=d95eac6da9762970e7091914011e58d3c31607456b6be6f213b4da36d1ab8536&
15:24:03 <Discord|> <05s​astreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1196942968016351352/Martyrs_Knell.png?ex=65b97701&is=65a70201&hm=123e38932cf8ce8a45860b8b4944f91a87a87b7f74806b19bac20cde6633b204&
15:54:16 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> To quote the feedback from roguelikes discord: "dope"
15:59:19 <NotCheibriados> 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-19-g28bc0835a1: Catch lost Lair gems, adjust a Spider gem 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 42+ 44-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28bc0835a156
15:59:20 <NotCheibriados> 03regret-index02 07[stone_soup-0.31] * 0.31-b1-19-g70c676f13a: Catch lost Lair gems, adjust a Spider gem 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 42+ 44-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/70c676f13a62
16:11:53 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> @regret-⸸nde※ By the way, was this an outcome you realized for door vaults after the outer runed door change? I hadn't considered how it would be possible to make a lot of noise to found out what's inside
16:11:53 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1196955009947029614/image.png?ex=65b98238&is=65a70d38&hm=f24ae6ebed8b00d33d1bd24f47b57457f2085868bb4ef2d20a9da69863675f01&
16:22:56 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> V is the only branch with frequent enough noise / mark to really make it a problem but that's also the branch that already screws with runed doors innately due to convokers
16:25:26 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (the player could hypothetically deliberately try to see what's inside but that also loses the free diagonal chokepoint provided by the sectional doors, and in several branches both not_door_vault_due and not_door_vault_mu will provide ambiguity at the lack of a noise response)
16:25:57 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-19-g28bc0835a1 (34)
16:29:51 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> To be honest, not_door_vault_due only looks like it provides said ambiguity in D. I assume shapeshifters that shift to the right monster can open doors
16:30:34 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> testing for not_door_vault_mu is the only real concern I'd have
16:30:38 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> *??player ghost
16:30:38 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  unknown monster/item: "player ghost"
16:30:41 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> *??ghost
16:30:42 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  ghost (W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-2 | AC/EV: 0/0 | undead, doors, evil, fly, unbreathing | Res: poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm, napalm | Vul: holy | XP: 1 | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
16:30:49 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> *??killer klown
16:30:50 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  Killer Klown (p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 118-170 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30 | items, doors, see invisible | Res: will(160) | Vul: silver | Corpse | XP: 3023 | Sp: blink [!sil], throw klown pie (3d20) [!AM, !sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
16:31:25 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> could easily add in the next version another door vault that also doesn't open doors
16:31:58 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> losing tactical advantage from sectional doors isn't all that much of a loss, but testing for a free treasure box is a fairly decent gain. I guess just opening the door vault and dispersing monsters with teleport if they're not butterflies is fairly free already though
16:32:49 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> You can't wake them up by just shouting, though, keep in mind
16:32:53 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> yeah, maybe another variant helps. Trying to put an additional opaque door inside would be an ugly hack
16:32:56 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Takes ?noise or something similarly extra
16:33:09 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> could also make the butterfly version offer less rewards
16:33:13 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> yes it's several layers of doors, although are doors lower attenuation than normal rock walls?
16:33:22 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> I seem to recall them being so
16:33:30 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> in terms of noise
16:33:46 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> they are, but three doors is still "thicker" than one rock wall
16:34:08 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> I know that e.g. dig for victory needed 3 rock walls in all directions to reliably prevent monsters waking up due to noise except in the most extreme case of e.g. alarm trap immediately adjacent
16:34:35 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> 3 doors = 2 walls
16:34:37 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> For noise purposes
16:34:44 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> (I just double-checked)
16:34:59 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> ??how loud
16:34:59 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> how loud[1/1]: Alarm trap/shield of the gong: 40. Singing sword: up to 35. Shatter: 30. Lightning (storm clouds, chain lightning), scroll of noise: 25. Qazlal: piety/10 up to 16. Shout, maximum melee attack: 12.
16:34:59 <Sequell> PTOANNNG!
16:35:00 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> honestly, scrolls of revelation covered for most of this anyway
16:35:16 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Thanks Sequell
16:35:28 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> welp
16:35:41 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> some secret techs must remain
16:35:45 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> But yes, I would expect from these numbers that ?noise and up work, and nothing below does
16:36:12 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> dang I think that entry is still wrong, singing sword can go up to gong noise
16:36:12 <Sequell> PANG!
16:36:12 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> PTOANNNG!
16:36:40 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> I like that we get double g*ng * in this channel
16:36:56 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Whispering quietly like they're overeager dogs or something
16:37:05 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (unless we want to make door_vault be runed doors around a transporter that leads to reverse_door_vault)
16:38:15 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> I'm not really sure this matters much. Like, on the one hand, yes it's cheaper (if still some effort) to reveal the contents. But ?relevation already let you see inside if it really mattered, and is still the better option for this (since it's better if they're not awake and immediately opening all the doors
16:39:07 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> revelation did change the status quo, yeah
16:39:43 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> Doorvault has kind of existed in a weird limbo for a while now anyway, imo. Like, it's almost never worth it to open unless you're very strong and/or cocky, and the rewards are usually minimal anyway. It was a great historical joke, but I kind of feel it's sort of an amusing relic at this point anyway
16:39:54 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> As much as I loved the horror of old doorvault (and kind of miss it on some level >.>)
16:40:18 <Discord|> <04d​racoomega> But it's an experience that I suspect is very hard to recreate in modern Crawl
16:40:49 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> runed door in front of three pressure plates where one opens up enemies and one opens up items
16:42:27 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (...and the last one spawns a couple of traps?)
16:43:12 <geekosaur> nemelex_the_gamble
16:44:04 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> except one can still deliberately choose the other afterwards
16:49:36 <geekosaur> refigure the_gamble to be the Monty Hall Problem >.>
16:51:15 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> wrong god, xom's already got that one
17:35:46 <Discord|> <08w​ormsofcan> its_a_trap captures the door vault experience
17:35:57 <Discord|> <08w​ormsofcan> and possibly some other transporter vaults
17:41:38 <Discord|> <12e​bering> rip door vault
17:43:57 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> the change is two weeks old and revelation is six months old >_>
17:44:17 <Discord|> <12e​bering> I'm out of the loop
17:44:18 <Discord|> <12e​bering> 😦
17:44:27 <Discord|> <12e​bering> outside the door, as it were
17:48:18 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (maybe if opaque runed doors looked a lot more like clear runed doors then I'd be up for reverting it, but doors are a massive pain to tile so I'd rather the tile artists would do other stuff before something used solely just for wizard_prison and door_vault)
18:00:11 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> yeah I think door vault is mostly fine, certainly the door vault experience is still intact
18:00:58 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> would like to rework wizard prison's trigger to not need an opaque runed door as well, elliptic and I discussed it a while back
18:01:16 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> think it can be done
18:04:59 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (I wonder how long I should wait on dev responses to that decorations proposal list before I make formalized tile requests...)
19:55:21 <Discord|> <06p​leasingfungus> minus three days
20:49:06 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> Made a quick blog post about the tournament page: https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/0-31-tournament-page
21:14:12 <Discord|> <12e​bering> quick feedback I would like to elaborate on but I'm planning a strike next week for my day job so rip my time: crawl has a small but active and important to me community of visually impaired players, I can try to connect you with one of them but I don't want them to get left out of this flavor
21:23:33 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> I would be plenty up for listening to them, but I'm not immediately sure what this entirely entails, when safely designated-as-decorative glyphs for console and fanciful descriptions are already involved. A quick check of colourblindness tests on the tiles still seems fine for everything besides parsing the crystal as a wall, I guess?....
21:26:14 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (I guess more statue types around might mean edging closer to overlap with monster statues in console? was admittedly pondering making an entirely different elemental colour just to get the magic and chaos statues widespread options without hitting the main three statue colours, though I haven't actually checked if decorative versus hostile got different unicode glyphs or anything by default yet.)
21:54:50 <Lantell> Stable (0.31) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-b1-19-g70c676f13a
22:34:50 <Discord|> <08w​ormsofcan> how do the new features work with ctrl+X? many visually impaired players rely on that plus a screen reader to parse the map
22:35:50 <Discord|> <12e​bering> yeah, making an option to include them in ctrl+X
22:36:30 <Discord|> <12e​bering> or (much more work don't let it be a show stopper but a subsetqent thing) promote the ctrl+X menu from a terribly hacked InvMenu to its own menu class and support switching between a "tactical" and a "flavourful" mode
22:49:55 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> ...I did not realize ctrl-X existed and also wow this doesn't describe walls
22:51:57 <Discord|> <12e​bering> oh! I did some work a while ago to make it configurable
22:52:00 <Discord|> <12e​bering>  The ^x display can list a customizable set of features controlled with regular expressions. For example, to include all water in ^x set:     monster_item_view_features += water
22:52:07 <Discord|> <12e​bering> it doesn't describe walls by default
22:52:09 <Discord|> <12e​bering> but you can make it
22:54:15 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> even more pressure to make rcfile configuration actually an editable thing in-game, huh
22:56:33 <Discord|> <12e​bering> yeah :p
22:58:00 <Discord|> <12e​bering> so they should already play nice with ^x but in the last section of options_guide.txt (visually impaired options) maybe recommend a scenic setting (like monster_item_view_features += !floor which should work) so that people for whom your nice descriptions are most of the experience can find them
22:58:17 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> * nods *
23:00:56 <Discord|> <12e​bering> ❤️
23:04:02 <Discord|> <06r​egret-⸸nde※> (...hmm. is there a more easy encompassing term for "plants, pillars of salt, and immobile boulders" besides actually using "firewood" in game, which sounds really weird for the latter stuff for those not in the know? >_>)
23:16:39 <Discord|> <12e​bering> who is handling release? Alex from cpo pinged me on the cpo discord to ask for more than 24hrs lead time when the release is tagged
23:16:42 <Discord|> <12e​bering> @gammafunk
23:16:55 <Discord|> <12e​bering> (also the beta is now up on cpo)
23:34:29 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-19-g28bc0835a1 (34)
23:54:43 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-19-g28bc0835a1