00:12:44 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1620-gcbf77bbcfc (34) 01:31:35 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 04:22:57 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 05:06:15 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1620-gcbf77bb (34) 07:04:14 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1621-gd28174fed3: Fix a slew of frightening issues with pacified monster pathing 10(17 minutes ago, 5 files, 89+ 73-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d28174fed39d 07:04:14 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1622-g688b343257: Fix pacified good neutrals not acting like they were pacified 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/688b343257a3 07:28:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1622-g688b343257 (34) 08:43:51 <06pleasingfungus> lmao 08:44:07 <06pleasingfungus> really incredible that any part of this game works at all 09:26:08 <05icoson> hi everyone, fyi I have the covid so I'm afraid you should probably expect me to be extremely unuseful for bugfixing / tournament setup 09:29:06 <12ebering> oh no 09:29:10 <12ebering> be well, rest up 09:29:12 <05icoson> the biggest issue I am aware of that needed some time is that ncurses builds on mac seem to be pretty broken with recent macos; I think it is most likely changes as a result of security patches for https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2023-29491, but I've had a lot of trouble finding any discussion or confirmation of this 09:29:16 <05icoson> thanks! 09:30:24 <05icoson> (crawl uses system ncurses on macos, changing this might be one thing to try as a quick measure for a release -- though I'd rather not add a dep on homebrew or w/e in th long run) 09:44:47 <04dracoomega> @pleasingfungus Given your expressed distaste for ghost_demon, I am wondering if you think I should not use it for orcish apostles? Like, they are intended to be generated as curated randuniques, more or less. And you can already give arbitrary spell lists to a monster, and their base AC/EV doesn't really have to change (and can be handled in decent part by equipment I give them), but their base damage (and probably will) and maybe 09:44:48 some other things does need to be able to be randomized across a lot of depth of opposition. I could probably do this by special-casing monster functions in a similar way that Hep ancestors do, and using custom props to store the given values (since it can't just be derived from HD). But I'm not convinced this is actually better than ghost_demon by the end of it, though? Thoughts? 09:45:22 <06pleasingfungus> that sounds like a good use for ghost demon 09:46:16 <06pleasingfungus> my feeling is that ghost demon is overkill and an overcomplication for monsters where basically just one thing varies, eg ugly thing colour or randlich spellbooks, and all other stat changes derive from that 09:46:26 <06pleasingfungus> but if you're varying a bunch of stuff then it's much more justifiable 09:46:53 <04dracoomega> (Were randliches ghost_demons while they existed?) 09:46:53 <06pleasingfungus> i think i used to be more strongly anti ghost demon than this, but it was years ago and i've mellowed 09:46:55 <06pleasingfungus> yes 09:47:00 <06pleasingfungus> well, for part of the time 09:47:00 <04dracoomega> Huh. Did not know this. 09:47:17 <06pleasingfungus> %git 508f34152df 09:47:18 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.17-a0-1600-g508f34152d: De-ghost-demonify spellforged servitors (9 years ago, 7 files, 85+ 76-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/508f34152df8 09:47:30 <06pleasingfungus> %git 1b2b1d9c2ed211807859ba968a5f9e46b537d850 09:47:31 <04Cerebot> PleasingFungus * 0.17-a0-1599-g1b2b1d9c2e: De-ghost-demon-ify liches/aliches (9 years ago, 6 files, 210+ 231-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b2b1d9c2ed2 09:47:33 <06pleasingfungus> ^ there we go 09:48:15 <04dracoomega> Was there some ancient reason not to be able to give arbitrary spell lists to monsters that was later changed, or was it just never done that way 'just because', I wonder? 09:50:14 <06pleasingfungus> think it was a just because - don't think they were ghost demons for long before i came at them 09:53:17 <04dracoomega> Fair enough. Just wanted to check with you before I started to hammer out implementation details here. 09:54:55 <06pleasingfungus> thanks! 🙂 10:18:50 <04dracoomega> Though speaking of hammering, I was also lightly wondering about the seemingly-fated return of Mountain Dwarves and wondering if they could use a mild gimmick. Like, Beogh was already half of Hill Orc's gimmick and that's not a unique thing they're going to have anymore. Obviously +3 invo on a non-evil race is relevant, but I suppose I already felt like hill orc was often 'worse than minotaur at the fighty thing, and while much 10:18:51 better at spellcasting, still not good ENOUGH that you really want to be doing the two things together or playing them as a pure caster compared to other species.' I mean, maybe people disagree here (it's part of why I'm asking), but orcs always felt the least distinct of the 3 big 'armor fighty dude' species. 10:18:52 <04dracoomega> Found myself wondering a little about trying to lean into them being heavy armor casters - something hill orc is already theoretically leaning more towards than most species, but maybe not ENOUGH? What do people think of something like 'Runic Casting: You cast spells through runic inscriptions that are much less affected by encumberance, but the total number of spell levels you can know at once is much lower than other species'. Keep 10:18:53 MD's old +2 fire apt (which nobody since has matched), possibly lower a couple other magic apts. Make them 'the species most likely to choose to cast in plate' 10:19:00 <04dracoomega> (I know index had been interested in adding egos that were like 'archmagi' of elemental schools and 'archimagi' of conj/alch that would only generate on scale/chain - normally less appealing caster armours. This could be a natural fit with that.) 10:25:56 <09hellmonk> Are you imagining the encumbrance reduction using a significantly different formula than sturdy frame? That is a pretty fitting mut already imo 10:27:01 <09hellmonk> Unsure about the fewer spell levels thing. Definitely plays differently. Might be frustrating if you get no amnesia? 10:29:56 <04dracoomega> I guess I had thought that I wanted to focus on the spell aspect of encumbrance specifically, though perhaps it doesn't have to make them particularly better at dodging anything if their dex/dodging is low enough and Sturdy Frame would be fine. (I admit, I wondered for a moment what the actual consequences would be of leaning into this theming of runic magic being sufficiently non-vocal that it was also immune to silence. Like, how 10:29:57 strong would that be, considering it still wouldn't apply to scrolls or god abilities, which are the usual panic-buttons you're afraid of being silenced >.>) 10:30:37 <09hellmonk> ah, yeah if you want them to keep full dodging penalty then they would need a new mut 10:33:02 <09hellmonk> Immunity to silence for spells is pretty marginal outside of tar but it does let you do a few cool things if you learn the spell or have a lot of scrolls 10:36:13 <09hellmonk> ime hill orc heavy armor casting worked fine but your mp kind of sucked for a long time bc of the spellcasting apt. They were really good with sticky flame like 12 versions ago. Melee hill orc was just insanely biased toward axes so it felt very one dimensional in terms of weapon choice compared to mi 10:36:29 <09hellmonk> But presumably md will also have a flavor apt pushing axes 10:37:47 They had equal axes and M&F, FWIW 10:40:38 <04dracoomega> Yeah, like... I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, but I do feel that MD could use something above just 'very slightly apt-shuffled HO, with no Beogh' 10:41:27 <09hellmonk> And you just added a "gets drunk" species too smh 10:41:53 <09hellmonk> Running out of dwarf stereotypes 10:42:07 (dunno if our mountain-dwarf.yaml which tries to bake in the global Spellcasting/Evo/Invo changes is any use to you as a starting point) 10:52:11 <04dracoomega> I actually just spent a while trying to find that and was about to say "I'm pretty sure MD removal was too old to even have one of those" before realizing you probably meant Stoat Soup. (I mean, I don't think anyone should feel beholden to exactly the apts that old MD had, and I'd probably want something that wasn't just apts, anyway) 10:53:44 <09hellmonk> I think gooncrawl also did a plate casting species (crab maybe?) that straight up took no spell failure penalty from body armor. Don't remember the details very well 10:54:12 <09hellmonk> Remember thinking it was a bit too one dimensional at the time 10:54:41 <04dracoomega> (Something kind of directly amuses me about dwarves being the flat-out best at using Animate Armour - as incredibly minor a point as that is :P) 10:55:40 <09hellmonk> New unrand: the +5 dwarven plate 10:55:56 <09hellmonk> It's just 0er 5plate 11:22:32 <05icoson> Iirc this is an exact implementation of classic MD: https://github.com/rawlins/crawl/blob/monstercrawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/species/monster-mountain-dwarf.yaml 11:22:46 <05icoson> (Why is MD return fated??) 11:23:18 a possible result of the Beogh rework opening Beogh to non-orcs 11:24:13 there was some light discussion of heavy armor casting approaches in the other chat a few months back, including giving hill orcs sturdy frame, etc, but looking at EV merfolk, melee gargoyles' innate AC, *kind of* draconians' innate AC and onis' sheer strength + HP (although the latter are seen more as pure casters by many), it doesn't change the 11:24:14 core "skilling into two methods of killing that scale off different stats" thing for non-gnolls, and bears gameplay similarities to the innate AC pure casters 11:24:23 that said, any change that allows those rarely-mentioned apts to actually come up in practice more often is still interesting and IMO an improvement, however it pans out! being the best animate armor caster would be neat 11:35:03 <05icoson> Well, haven’t parsed the context but definitely agree that the classic apt-only version is really uninteresting 11:43:41 <04dracoomega> Context was the Beogh rework I'm working on, which incorporates the much talked-about orcification idea, which goes hand-in-hand with Hill Orc not being a player species anymore 11:44:09 <04dracoomega> And several people thought it would be amusing to replace them with Mountain Dwarves returning (but I think they could use just a little bit of spice in the process) 11:45:00 <04dracoomega> Something functionally similar to current Hill Orc, but with a Twist(tm) 12:01:49 <06regret-⸸nde※> (another part of it is that hill orc lags noticeably behind its obvious comparison point of minotaur, despite its position above minotaur in the character selection screen, because of the common minotaur berserker advice) 12:01:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> !lg * !boring !bot cv>=0.25 crace=minotaur|hill_orc s=crace 12:02:03 <04Cerebot> 703926 games for * (!boring !bot cv>=0.25 crace=minotaur|hill_orc): 478283x Minotaur, 225643x Hill Orc 12:02:22 <06regret-⸸nde※> !lg * !boring !bot cv>=0.25 god=beogh 12:02:26 <04Cerebot> 31520. Sirjeffry24 the Executioner (L11 HOFi of Beogh), mangled by a warg (led by the wrath of Beogh) on D:10 on 2024-01-11 17:58:01, with 9485 points after 11106 turns and 0:14:10. 12:04:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> personally speaking, 12:04:50 <06regret-⸸nde※> I've argued a little bit with Draco recently that it'd be an equally funny thing if the gimmick for bringing back dwarves was to position them slightly to the left of mountain dwarves and make their main non-apt gimmick more lava orcish instead 12:04:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> and call them volcano dwarves or magma dwarves 12:10:36 <06regret-⸸nde※> (alongside a more straightforward -4 armour er mutation it'd probably just be something much simpler than old temperature, like "at 66% health you get a free fire enhancer, earth enhancer, and your melee gets a half-resistable lava-splash aux") 12:18:26 03Aliscans02 {wheals} 07* 0.31-a0-1623-g4e6510e29d: Tell the player about MF_SECONDARY_SCROLL in menus. 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 13+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e6510e29d1a 12:18:26 03Aliscans02 {wheals} 07* 0.31-a0-1624-gc8d6b64c82: Make "!" in the identify scroll menu identify the first unknown potion. 10(5 weeks ago, 3 files, 28+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8d6b64c820b 12:18:26 03Aliscans02 {wheals} 07* 0.31-a0-1625-g1a3bd5dcfb: Fix InvMenu::load_inv_items(). 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a3bd5dcfb5c 12:43:06 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1625-g1a3bd5dcfb (34) 12:51:13 Hello. Used to play years ago and cannot log in. I would like to recover my password. 13:52:38 <06pleasingfungus> rip 13:53:40 <06pleasingfungus> @regret-⸸nde※ / @dracoomega - were you planning to merge the blazeheart/fugue spell icons that wormcan posted on the 7th, or would you rather I take em when I get a chance? 13:54:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> I'll do it 13:55:19 <04dracoomega> It slipped my mind in how mired I have been on these fascinating code dives lately >.> 13:55:35 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I had wondered if we were getting anything further icons at the time and then got distracted with my own ridiculous tilework) 13:55:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> e.g. 13:55:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1195108826022674502/sphere.gif?ex=65b2cad4&is=65a055d4&hm=46513d6f422cd7b8d26352bbaec6f2941f6f8047e4e34d5a9c33235ad0b32323& 14:01:02 <06pleasingfungus> oooh 14:01:09 <06pleasingfungus> spinny 14:01:35 <06pleasingfungus> anyway, ty! just didn't want to step on anyone's toes, but also wanted to get a few last changes in before i get sucked out of a plane 14:08:54 <04dracoomega> I do hope that isn't literal 14:09:00 <04dracoomega> The news hasn't been great on that front lately ^^; 14:10:07 <06pleasingfungus> oh, i'm flying on an alaska airlines 737 max-9 on sunday 14:10:24 <06pleasingfungus> (unless they cancel the flight. they've cancelled all the flights for that model & airline up through saturday) 14:10:30 <06pleasingfungus> so it's going to be exciting! 14:12:10 <04dracoomega> Oh boy 14:12:24 <04dracoomega> I am personally not a fan of excitement 14:27:29 <04dracoomega> @pleasingfungus Do you think that monster attack info in xv should show the multiplied value if the monster has Might? (On the one hand, this is a useful indication of how much it can actually do, and how strong Might actually is for beginners. On the other, I worry that people might think that was the 'base' damage and that Might still applied on top 14:28:35 <06regret-⸸nde※> I'd wonder about putting e.g. 30 (base 20), but I don't know if there's enough room for that offhand 14:28:50 <04dracoomega> (I am planning to give apostles a mega-buff when you're fighting against them, to sort of balance out "How do we make something a player threat to fight, but not overpowered to have as recurring ally", and in that case I think I want to show players what the 'real' damage the enemy will do is - especially because it's randomized per apostle!) 14:29:13 <04dracoomega> I mean, maybe just 20 (30) would be clear enough, I wonder 14:39:46 <09hellmonk> This has me curious if brillianced monsters display their real spell damage or not 14:40:36 <04dracoomega> Will check! 14:41:07 <04dracoomega> They do! 14:41:18 <09hellmonk> Interesting 14:41:36 <04dracoomega> Also, 'Will check' feels like an unintentionally ambiguous statement in the context of this game, now that I reread 14:42:21 <06regret-⸸nde※> after all the insanity of pacified monsters yesterday I'd be entirely willing to accept willpower checks against crawl's codebase 14:42:23 <04dracoomega> (Basically, brilliance multiplies the effective HD of a monster, which is passed along to the spell display code. Might's damage multiplication doesn't show up when looking at the damage of a monster's attacks and is only applied in melee_attack itself 14:44:51 <09hellmonk> Makes sense 14:46:22 <09hellmonk> Making might/ weak display in xv sounds like a good idea. Vaguely think we only need the actual damage number as long as it's clear that it is being boosted/reduced, but having both might end up being easier 14:48:12 <04dracoomega> I think this seems fairly clear and sufficiently concise to me: 14:48:13 <04dracoomega> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1195122014684467210/image.png?ex=65b2d71c&is=65a0621c&hm=d76a658c8c5b53e41e2f0fc032f80d085fb3efda0d913ebff34e4a1b1f116f17& 14:48:48 <09hellmonk> Yeah looks good to me 14:49:31 <09hellmonk> Maybe wants "boosted by might" somewhere 14:50:22 <09hellmonk> Just remembered that battlecry used to be a different status than might and the damage bonus differed depending on which tier of orc used it 14:51:39 <04dracoomega> It depended on the difference between the tier of monstere who used it and who received it, actually 14:51:50 <04dracoomega> So knights would give +25% to warriors and +50% to base orcs, I thnk 14:57:19 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1626-g5cb510d322: New Fugue and Blazeheart spell icons (CanOfWorms) 10(53 seconds ago, 5 files, 18+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5cb510d32230 15:12:58 HobbyADHD (L2 MiFi) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:1) 15:21:07 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1626-g5cb510d322 (34) 15:43:14 03Wizard Ike02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3120 * 0.31-a0-1626-ga9942deba1: Fix autopickup not being reactivated when shafting monsters 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9942deba137 15:43:14 03Wizard Ike02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3120 * 0.31-a0-1627-g0f4f9b9a36: Fix autopickup sometimes not reactivating when invisibility ends on a monster 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f4f9b9a3686 15:43:14 03Wizard Ike02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3120 * 0.31-a0-1628-g3f770363da: Fix toggling of autopickup when polymorphing monsters 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 20+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f770363da49 15:43:14 03Wizard Ike02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3120 * 0.31-a0-1629-g515c6926d5: Fix autopickup not deactivating when charming wears off invisible monsters 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/515c6926d5e5 16:07:12 <06pleasingfungus> would worry about text length but sounds good otherwise 16:27:05 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-1626-g5cb510d322 (34) 23:34:58 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1626-g5cb510d322 (34) 23:57:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1626-g5cb510d322