00:24:48 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1549-g5ff9445e89 (34) 01:34:15 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 04:22:40 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 05:21:34 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1549-g5ff9445 (34) 06:48:02 Salticid (L17 OnAl) ASSERT(mons.type != MONS_NO_MONSTER) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 2806 failed. (Swamp:3) 07:09:30 -!- dulot_34_ is now known as dulo_t-34_ 09:12:21 <06dolorous_84348> If anyone thinks Oni need a boost, I have an idea for one. Have them handle poison a bit differently: not poison resistance, but slowed poison damage like the Chei passive. And flavor it as poison tolerance or something similar, since they're supposed to be drinkers and they've probably had their fair share of bad stuff. 09:21:15 <05icoson> FYI I’m pretty sure one server is on a python version too old to support f strings (and my personal pref is for % over basic format strings) 09:26:42 <06pleasingfungus> dolorous: thematic 🙂 currently suspect oni are more likely to want a nerf than a buff (they just got a ton of buffs!), plus they already have a lot of complexity, their big hp pool already helps vs poison, and it’s nice to not trample on gods’ exclusive mechanics when possible. 09:27:58 <06pleasingfungus> (though that last one is the weakest point - slow poison isn’t really chei’s most distinctive or central ability, so i can imagine us re-using it somewhere sometime.) 09:32:04 <06dolorous_84348> Okay. I got to thinking about it after rereading the initial Oni commit log mentioning reflavored shoutitis, and whether a boost would be needed to compensate if they got that. 09:32:06 <06pleasingfungus> (i had a branch that put it on a mut…) 09:32:13 <06pleasingfungus> ahh, gotcha 09:34:32 <06pleasingfungus> hm, i wonder if a badmut that made poison damage apply instantly would be interesting… 09:35:34 <06dolorous_84348> Interesting in the most horrifying sense 🙂 09:45:01 <06dolorous_84348> Although if nerfing Oni is likely, I definitely like the idea of reflavored shoutitis. 09:48:39 <06dolorous_84348> And, for the record, while I'm talking about ideas mentioned in commit logs, regret-index's mention of possibly letting plain orcs ride wargs sounds nice too. 09:54:00 <04dracoomega> I know that elliptic suspected giving them shoutitits would be more obnoxious than it would actually be bad, so I've been hesitant. Have seriously considered moving their armour apt back to -2, though. They did technically get a fairly large survivability bonus already and people seem to be finding them pretty strong. 09:54:50 <04dracoomega> (Though speaking of Chei, I have wondered if they could use something to make new sticky flame less awful against them in a similar way that they have with poison, or if that's just something you have to put up with as a worshipper of Chei now) 10:00:12 <06dolorous_84348> Well, maybe the dialogue for reflavored shoutitis could be used for an oni unique (tweaked Erolcha as you mentioned, or someone new). 10:01:04 <06dolorous_84348> As for Chei, I haven't played Chei worshippers much, but "Worship Cheibriados: Go slow, and burn to death fast!" doesn't seem to fit him thematically. 10:06:06 <04dracoomega> (Like, I could make how much sticky flame you shake off per move proportional to the movedelay of the movement you made, rather than special-casing anything for Chei. It might make sense? Not sure) 10:06:20 <06pleasingfungus> that sounds reasonable to me 10:06:46 <06pleasingfungus> many of chei’s effects are already undocumented in game 10:06:58 <06pleasingfungus> stuff that’s in the un-displayed god-passive logic 10:07:06 <06pleasingfungus> so it’d be nice to avoid adding more 10:07:12 <04dracoomega> I don't know if it would be intuitive or not that, say, spriggans need to run a lot further to shake flames off 10:07:35 <04dracoomega> (And I don't want it to work this way for enemies. Pretty sure that would just feel weird) 10:07:51 <06pleasingfungus> why? 10:10:44 <06dolorous_84348> Going back to -2 armor for oni sounds fitting. Their shapeshifting aptitude of -1 is a bit odd, given that oni are supposed to be shapeshifters and -1 is the same aptitude as humans; maybe it could be +0? But something else would probably need to be nerfed then. 10:11:08 <04dracoomega> Hmm.... trying to articulate exactly why, and wondering if it's sort of 'vibes'. Fast things become 'kiteable' for more spaces than previously (but trying to kite fast things was always worse for the reasons of them hitting you, I guess). Feel a little weird for slow lumbering things to shake it off immediately if they move a space. It becomes a little less bad against a few things it was really terrible against (ie: harpies) but is 10:11:09 maybe still 'bad enough'? I wonder if it would feel a little more muddled/inconsistent from the player's perspective, I guess. 10:13:58 <06pleasingfungus> i guess it’s not obvious to me why we care about spaces that an effect applies for, rather than the time it lasts - latter is what multiplies damage dealt, right? 10:14:07 <04dracoomega> Index and I had a concept pair for a reflavored (but mechanically unmodified) oni Erolcha and 'future' Erolcha (pending a name) that didn't make it for 0.31, but is reasonably on the to-do list for 0.32. 10:14:34 <06dolorous_84348> Sounds like a good idea for then. 10:14:37 <09gammafunk> Do you know which server? fstrings are supported from python 3.6, which was a 2016 release. CDO has 3.7, and CAO has 3.10, but this is likely a local version you installed. I preferred (and even still use sometimes) the format method over % because it seems better about formatting arbitrary objects as strings. 10:14:41 <04dracoomega> I think damage ticks once per turn from the enemy's frame of reference 10:15:40 <04dracoomega> Which mean that faster things take damage faster (and if they shake it off slower on top of that, will take more), while slow things will take even less if it goes in one action 10:18:41 <06dolorous_84348> One other oni-related bit: maybe add an unrand themed to them? Like a giant club (described as an "iron" giant club) with some electricity-related effect (given that oni are associated with thunder and lightning, and sometimes metalworking)? 10:20:09 <04dracoomega> I think index suggested making Skullcrusher a kanabo 10:20:18 <06dolorous_84348> That works. 10:20:37 <06pleasingfungus> huh, i guess i’d expect that to also scale w time taken… agree that shaking off sticky flame should only scale w time taken if damage does too 10:20:57 <06pleasingfungus> do players take more damage from sticky flame if they take faster actions…? 10:21:06 <06pleasingfungus> that seems wrong if so 10:21:56 <04dracoomega> Player damage taken is delay-scaled 10:22:08 <04dracoomega> Monster damage never was (and I'm pretty sure monster poison damage still isn't either) 10:22:25 <06pleasingfungus> i don’t want to think about monster poison damage. :p 10:22:40 <05icoson> I have planned to say that servers should update to a non eol python version on the next release; I’m not sure the methods are that different for arbitrary objects if they implement str/repr 10:22:43 <04dracoomega> (Old monster sticky flame also wasn't, for what it's worth) 10:22:59 <04dracoomega> I just raised damage numbers on it and added the shake-off mechanics 10:24:36 <04dracoomega> Is there actually any straightforward way to scale anything with how much time a monster took since its last action, though? I'm not sure there's a way to look this up off-hand. (Like, for monsters with different move/act speed, I don't think we can know if they moved or acted last, right?) 10:24:38 <09gammafunk> I suppose if you made that stipulation, we could all enjoy fstrings in 0.32 then 10:39:23 <06pleasingfungus> re old sticky: yeah i figured 10:39:48 <06pleasingfungus> usually we scale things based on their current energy used, i think? 10:39:51 <06pleasingfungus> unsure 10:40:03 <06pleasingfungus> maybe we don’t do this anywhere, which would be a vote against it :p 10:40:10 <04dracoomega> I don't think I've seen that happen, though I could look again 10:40:28 <04dracoomega> The duration of effects applied to monsters is scaled against their base speed, at the time it's applied 10:41:16 <04dracoomega> But that's not the same thing 10:45:51 <04dracoomega> Looking through all these, being engulfed by water has some weird delay shenanigans applied to it (presumably because it doesn't get its internal duration downscaled like most enchants, due to being an indefinite effect), and that's it 10:46:13 <04dracoomega> (And even that is still just looking at the monster's base speed) 10:55:09 <06pleasingfungus> trying to remember how cloud damage works. 10:57:13 <06regret-⸸nde※> "badly" 10:57:18 <04dracoomega> I don't think that's delay-scaled against anybody 10:57:59 <04dracoomega> From a quick re-scan of cloud code 11:00:44 <06pleasingfungus> ah, found it 11:00:46 <06pleasingfungus> the function is timescale_damage 11:00:48 <06pleasingfungus> in ouch.cc 11:00:57 <06pleasingfungus> cpp // Can we have a uniform player/monster speed system yet? if (act->is_player()) return div_rand_round(damage * you.time_taken, BASELINE_DELAY); else { const monster *mons = act->as_monster(); const int speed = mons->speed > 0? mons->speed : BASELINE_DELAY; return div_rand_round(damage * BASELINE_DELAY, speed); } 11:01:35 <06pleasingfungus> (used for clouds, constriction, and toxic bog) 11:01:45 <06pleasingfungus> seems vaguely reasonable to use the same function for mon sticky flame 11:02:25 <04dracoomega> Oh, it's done further down the line? 11:02:42 <04dracoomega> Oh, no, I just missed it earlier 11:03:27 <04dracoomega> Though for what it's worth, this only looks at the monster's base speed and not the delay of whatever they did 11:03:38 <06pleasingfungus> cloud.cc code is a twisty maze of many corridors… 11:03:48 <04dracoomega> (I guess this means that juggernauts take greatly reduced cloud damage after swinging at something?) 11:05:09 <06pleasingfungus> yeah, cloud logic is goofy re mons - they only take damage when they take a turn 11:05:22 <06pleasingfungus> see also old pvap not doing anything vs slow enough mons 11:05:32 <06pleasingfungus> since the cloud would dissipate before they took a turn 11:05:33 <04dracoomega> I mean, that part seems fine-ish to me. (Not counting the pvap case) 11:05:50 <04dracoomega> But if their turn takes 4 times as long as normal, they still take normal damage 11:05:57 <04dracoomega> (Not too often an issue, but weird/unfortunate) 11:06:16 <06pleasingfungus> wonder how hard it’d be to change 11:06:23 <04dracoomega> Like, cloud damage being monster-turn-centric feels fairly natural to me since player cloud damage feels like it works the same way, you know? 11:06:50 <04dracoomega> Currently I think there is no way to know how much energy a monster is going to spend on its turn. I think most of these things tick before energy is even deducted? 11:07:07 <06pleasingfungus> no idea 11:07:19 <04dracoomega> Actually, I guess it could store how much was spent last turn, and look at that if enchantments tick at the start of the turn 11:07:31 <06pleasingfungus> yes, i was wondering about that 11:07:41 <04dracoomega> Seems like it... might work fairly reasonably? 11:07:49 <06pleasingfungus> maybe for 0.32 11:07:53 <04dracoomega> (Not something I care to touch this close to freeze, though, for reasons that I hope are obvious :P) 11:08:09 <04dracoomega> Almost sure to break some assumptions we don't realize 11:08:32 <06dolorous_84348> When exactly is the freeze? 11:08:36 <04dracoomega> The 5th 11:08:40 <06dolorous_84348> Thank you. 11:09:07 <06pleasingfungus> don't think it'll really affect you, since it's feature freeze, not bugfix etc freeze 🙂 11:09:46 <06dolorous_84348> I have some ideas; they'll just have to wait 🙂 12:19:34 <06dolorous_84348> One quick question. If you worship Yred and die with a non-destroyed corpse, you get a message about how you're raised as a zombie if you're not undead, or how you join the undead harvest if you are undead. But if you're a djinni or a gargoyle, you're non-living, so you can't do either of those. Any idea what message to use then, if any? 12:23:49 <06regret-⸸nde※> something about becoming fuel for the flame of the black torch? 12:34:16 <06dolorous_84348> Yes, that sounds good. 12:34:56 <06dolorous_84348> Thank you. 12:55:26 New branch created: pull/3449 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3449 12:55:26 03dolorous02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3449 * 0.31-a0-1550-g6f6504aaf7: Add Yred death message for nonliving players. 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f6504aaf7f1 14:49:22 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1550-g005a376ed2: Trim off a bit of Kirke and Josephine's depths 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/005a376ed2ec 14:49:22 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1551-gfc7f089eb7: Very slightly trim Ice Cave and Ossuary ranges 10(71 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc7f089eb773 14:49:22 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1552-g98767d6fda: Adjust species -> class recommendations re: Alchemy 10(24 minutes ago, 4 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/98767d6fdadd 14:49:22 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1553-g6f9dbf35b3: No more deriving undead from the already undead 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f9dbf35b3c7 14:49:22 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1554-gbdd0a2a65a: Caster tile updates by Sastreii 10(62 seconds ago, 4 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdd0a2a65af9 14:54:35 03dolorous02 07* 0.31-a0-1555-g5715333c33: Add Yred death message for nonliving players. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5715333c3306 15:08:14 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1555-g5715333c33 (34) 16:26:06 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-1555-g5715333c33 (34) 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1556-g4d2d64e67e: Describe goliath frog acid damage in xv 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d2d64e67e61 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1557-g4bb3443018: Block Chaos weapons from using Might/Weak on monsters with no attacks 10(61 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bb34430182b 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1558-g508479e61e: Fix a minor bug with mons_has_attacks() 10(59 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/508479e61e9e 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1559-g9d92c49a05: Very slightly reduce the odds of chaos polymorph (regret-index) 10(59 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9d92c49a05cd 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1560-ge2c2431d72: Give Protean Progenitors (and flesh) rPois, give flesh fast regen (r-i) 10(40 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e2c2431d7254 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1561-g72ca9f7c6f: Fix a terrible interaction between Noxious Bog and quicksilver 10(37 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72ca9f7c6f18 17:14:34 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1562-gf47e9a2960: Fix blastmote knockback (and maybe other things??) not clearing water hold 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f47e9a296011 17:19:38 <04dracoomega> @pleasingfungus Do you know what's supposed to be up with the assert in rampage code that keeps throwing warnings? I was going to just move it out of the switch statement entirely, but then noticed in the original commit that caused this problem that it was only for spret::fail and spret::abort and not other cases. I'm not sure if there's a reason we can't run it for success also, but wanted to ask if there was a reason you moved 17:19:38 it 17:20:55 <06pleasingfungus> i moved it because it seemed harmless to run it for all cases, but looks like the compiler is being Extremely Clever and noting that the assert will never fire in some cases 17:20:58 <06pleasingfungus> so we can move it back 17:23:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1562-gf47e9a2960 (34) 17:23:08 <04dracoomega> I mean, shouldn't it just be outside the case statement entirely? 17:23:18 <04dracoomega> Instead of inside it, but in unreachable code 17:37:34 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1563-g4ceaed913a: Tweak Pan Lords a little more, yet again 10(89 minutes ago, 6 files, 38+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4ceaed913a50 17:37:34 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1564-ge0190472d0: Trim a bit off of Aizul's deeper depths (Ge0FF) 10(79 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e0190472d0cc 17:37:34 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1565-ge1511139a1: Experiment: give bazaars non-hostile monster customers 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 32+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e1511139a1b2 17:51:35 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1565-ge1511139a1 (34) 17:55:58 <06pleasingfungus> oops. lol. yes 17:56:10 <06pleasingfungus> mind fixing it? i'm deep in another branch 17:56:39 <04dracoomega> Sure 17:59:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> (2rves going to immediately slam in after tourney? :P) 17:59:30 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1566-gba8647c523: Move an assert somewhere it can actually theoretically trigger 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ba8647c523b7 18:05:37 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1566-gba8647c523 (34) 18:21:40 <03implojin> the assert being placed there is now checking it before the rampage move has actually occurred 18:32:55 03Implojin02 07* 0.31-a0-1567-g7e4722a024: Fixup a rampage assert 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7e4722a02424 18:34:34 <04dracoomega> T.T 18:34:55 <03implojin> no worries, that code is not great 18:51:24 <06pleasingfungus> !clap all code is beautiful 18:51:25 <04Cerebot> 👏 all 👏 code 👏 is 👏 beautiful 👏 19:09:14 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1567-g7e4722a024 (34) 21:09:37 03ebering02 07* 0.31-a0-1568-g8e2b85f8ed: fix: dont place a god altar with polyominoes 10(60 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8e2b85f8ed8a 21:20:59 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1568-g8e2b85f8ed (34) 22:13:20 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1569-g8ca8a6932e: Lower protean progenitor Will (Prakerore) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ca8a6932e54 22:13:20 03yrdzrfxndfvh02 {regret-index} 07* 0.31-a0-1570-g93c622d222: add a vault for each hell branch (#3425) 10(7 days ago, 4 files, 85+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93c622d222f0 22:19:12 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1570-g93c622d222 (34) 23:35:03 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1570-g93c622d222 (34) 23:53:39 New branch created: a-monster-named-yaml (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/a-monster-named-yaml 23:53:39 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-monster-named-yaml] * 0.31-a0-1568-gaae8a92a8d: Move monsters into YAML (WIP) 10(2 minutes ago, 620 files, 17614+ 6680-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aae8a92a8ddd 23:54:43 New branch created: yaml-mons-exporter (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/yaml-mons-exporter 23:54:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[yaml-mons-exporter] * 0.31-a0-1568-gc979eb0ef4: Debug only: add a YAML monster exporter 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1593+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c979eb0ef4f8 23:55:18 <06pleasingfungus> if anyone wants to help me figure out the makefile tomorrow (maybe @icoson ?), all help would be appreciated - i'd tried copying the species-gen logic but ended up with circular dependencies somehow 23:56:43 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1570-g93c622d222