00:46:15 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1354-g0f3f92e71e: Fix broken build 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f3f92e71e8c 01:34:18 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1354-g0f3f92e71e (34) 01:47:52 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 04:24:10 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 05:30:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1354-g0f3f92e (34) 05:38:02 <03implojin> strongly agree with all of this, my presence in The Other Discord happened as a reaction to dev changes being discussed there; i've tried to steer conversation back to #crawl-dev a few times but people keep having conversations there so that's where conversations happen so people keep having more conversations there.... 06:39:53 <03implojin> oh, wow, i really like these wall tiles. have they been added to the game yet? might do a commit adding them if not 06:42:16 <05sastreii> Thanks! I don’t recall them being added yet 07:31:09 <05icoson> I've wondered occasionally if there would be a way to do some automated stress testing of indirect deaths; still not clear to me what form that takes exactly but it'd be nice 07:42:19 New branch created: pull/3412 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3412 07:42:19 03David Lawrence Ramsey02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3412 * 0.31-a0-1355-gf41b85507c: Don't list Meteorans in the aptitudes menu. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f41b85507c17 07:43:38 <05icoson> well, on balance, it's a bit hard to blame google for dropping something like this 07:43:38 <05icoson> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1187767407465468045/Screenshot_2023-12-22_at_9.42.35_AM.png?ex=65981599&is=6585a099&hm=8c5ec70da09b48ba1afe52e9b487f3a5fbee3f3efebdf454424ea65292bf1726& 07:45:37 <05icoson> although in october the dev of alphaman replied to a 9 year old question 08:05:19 DoNotCum (L8 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:7) 08:12:26 DoNotCum (L9 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 08:12:41 DoNotCum (L9 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 08:12:49 <07zureal> nice username you got there buddy 08:29:13 <08nicolae> i mean, it'd be worse if it was the opposite. you shouldn't be doing that while playing crawl. 08:32:05 <06pleasingfungus> my wife had the same take 09:09:22 <06pleasingfungus> mirroring from roguelikes: from DracoOmega > I am sad at monsters not drinking potions, tbh. Like, okay, maybe it sucks that they drink your loot, but I liked the ocassional combinatorics of a monster pulling out a worse-than-usual trick with such things 09:09:50 <06pleasingfungus> my response: i get where you’re coming from, but I actively dislike that combinatoric 😛 if we want to have extra scary versions of enemies sometimes, we can, but we already have uniques and out of depths and monsters wearing found items and vaults that put enemies in tough situations. Playing around the possibility that an orc warrior !berserking sucks, though! good play means you have to consider it for every applicable 09:09:51 monster, but you won’t, so it just feels bad to die to it when in theory you could’ve played around it. Making it visible just means you have to x over every applicable enemy instead, which also sucks! if we want more combinatorics, i’d 10x rather have some kind of procgenned uniques ala diablo/qud (Red-Skull the bombardier beetle?) than go back to monster potions. 🙂 09:12:35 <12ebering> I liked the occasional worse than usual monster, but "wait it out" was often the tactical play. I had thought about removing mosnter potion drinking and replacing it with levelgen adding a small per monster chance of giving them some dispellable but infinite duration enchant 09:13:13 <12ebering> from like might/haste/agi, plus once they don't have to mirror player potions there are new opportunities 09:13:23 <12ebering> this is riffing on brogues monster variants 09:14:00 <12ebering> (also this is perhaps procgenn unique "lite") 09:19:04 <06pleasingfungus> oh no, now discussion is ongoing in both channels 09:19:21 <06pleasingfungus> i don’t have the energy to manually mirror 😦 09:21:40 <06pleasingfungus> i’ll grab one bit. CarefulOdds suggested you could make mons potions visible and purple ala curare; i noted > i considered that a little just now. it’s an interesting idea, but i’m just not sure it turns into a fun or fair challenge. if i’m going to be killed by something much scarier than normal, i’d rather it be something visually distinctive and memorable (“a wyvern on d:3?!”) than “normal enemy with a 09:21:41 potion” 09:23:33 <06pleasingfungus> think that’s also my response to the inf duration ench thing; adding names to mons is cheap and, if we want to start adding mutators to them, players deserve to be murdered by something with a name 09:24:03 <06pleasingfungus> (though it’s still unclear to me that we want randuniques - just think they should have names if we do add em) 09:24:31 <06pleasingfungus> also the ench should 100% not be dispellable. yara’s is busto enough as is! 09:24:36 <06pleasingfungus> 🙂 09:39:13 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1355-ga19005be0f: Fix missing Sticky Flame status descriptions in webtiles 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a19005be0fa5 09:45:22 <12ebering> rip to the spirit of discussing here I'm tryin 09:45:35 <12ebering> don't have the bandwidth for fast channel while xmas cookin 09:51:20 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1355-ga19005be0f (34) 09:53:45 <05icoson> even a small amount of mirroring is tremendously good, thanks 🙂 09:54:33 <05icoson> I have no expectation that discussion won't happen there, esp. if it involves players who don't have an account here 10:05:20 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1356-gade28b54fc: Actually set weight of ARTP_ENHANCE_TMUT to 0 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ade28b54fc3b 10:19:53 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1356-gade28b54fc (34) 10:30:38 <04dracoomega> I'd been thinking a little about that 'summon a pond and a fish' spell mentioned the other day, and while it would be nice for summon/alchemy to get a spell, and 'making liquids' definitely feels in their purview, I also sort of feel like... if we wanted it to be ~5-ish, there's some awkwardness with both Leda's and Eringya's making large amounts of liquids in the same school at the same levels already. (I mean, synergy with 10:30:39 Eringya's isn't bad, but...) And somehow my mind gravitated over to lava pools instead. And what if instead of a single pond, it made several small ponds, and the lava fish it summoned had essentially a blink-bolt style leaping attack that it would use to attack things between said ponds, since it can only do the leap if there's somewhere in line to land. And we can call it a Pyranha or something 😛 10:30:59 <04dracoomega> And some of the positional play is lining enemies up where it can leap back and forth over them 10:35:08 <06pleasingfungus> wow 10:36:59 <04dracoomega> Could maybe even push some enemies away from pond spaces on cast, so that it was easier to find room for to place them. Like, the ground cracking and lava bubbling up from beneath. 10:37:21 <06pleasingfungus> could make it summ/earth/fire 10:37:27 <04dracoomega> Was thinking the same thing, actually 10:37:29 <06pleasingfungus> finally a replacement for magma bolt 10:37:33 <04dracoomega> Yes! 10:37:36 <04dracoomega> And the bolt is a fish 10:37:39 <06pleasingfungus> been wanting a new earth/fire spell forever 10:37:42 <06pleasingfungus> ha 10:37:43 <06pleasingfungus> more bolts should be fish. 10:37:47 <04dracoomega> Haha 11:48:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> (my immediate thought on the randomized monster boost thing is that this is basically what every vault with oods or Themes or equipment is trying to do. my immediate thought on summon lavafish is that I guess I can settle with two fish under glyph F for now :P) 11:55:45 <06regret-⸸nde※> (oh, right, my second thought on the randomized monster boost thing is to have something like how the rakshasa or floating / glass eye band works for grabbing a random non-banding monster works, except to have it for something that could give a bunch of random buffs to a thing) 11:56:38 <06regret-⸸nde※> (xommoth? scales vortex for snake? some kind of lowly vassal in orc or pan?) 11:57:10 <06pleasingfungus> yeah, that first thought is what i was trying to express earlier 11:57:29 <06pleasingfungus> we already have so many mechanisms for ‘take a monster and make it more dangerous’ :p 11:58:43 <06regret-⸸nde※> (though we have a lot of buff-other designs in crawl already on haste and might and the haste+mightness of berserk and there's not many other easy buffs around...) 12:00:51 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...it'd probably be a nightmare to give monster inventory anything like, but now I'm just imagining the weapons vortex vague idea I had for V / Pan to be about giving everybody who can wield a weapon exact copies of one overstatted weapon) 12:07:30 <04dracoomega> That's cute 12:07:46 <04dracoomega> Probably a bit fiddly to code, but I imagine not impossible 12:08:41 <04dracoomega> Have the weapon-granting spell save the monster's normal weapon in a prop, give them the new fake one, and some mechanism to restore the old one if they or the weapon vortex dies 12:13:17 <06pleasingfungus> hm 12:13:38 <06pleasingfungus> i would probably implement it slightly differently 12:13:50 <06pleasingfungus> but it could be doable 12:14:00 <06pleasingfungus> thanks discord 12:14:48 <06pleasingfungus> anyway i would be for it only if it looks funny in console 12:14:48 <06pleasingfungus> er 12:14:51 <06pleasingfungus> in tiles* 12:14:53 <09hellmonk> Wonder how different this would be from some kind of ignis fire champion thing but in spell form 12:15:03 <06pleasingfungus> the weapon thing? 12:15:06 <09hellmonk> give them all some dumpy slaying and then an extra brand 12:15:10 <06pleasingfungus> clearly it should give out polearms 12:15:16 <06pleasingfungus> suffer! suffer!!! 12:15:40 <09hellmonk> Yeah if you are giving them pole or launcher then it's a bit more unique 12:16:47 <06regret-⸸nde※> sadly the obvious sprite does not have any polearms actually in it, but also it's weird enough it should cover for that anyway 12:16:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1187836149985726514/grand_avatar.png?ex=6598559f&is=6585e09f&hm=2bdf5e640054be30d46899ebbe428cdb83a92a1f65c704d448b00cd30492bf09& 12:17:02 <06pleasingfungus> does have a launcher! 12:17:31 <06pleasingfungus> and could probably edit a spear over that sword if we wanted 12:17:42 <04dracoomega> I don't think literally every weapon it has needs to be visible 12:17:49 <04dracoomega> It sells the idea well enough 12:18:05 <06pleasingfungus> no they should all be visible. stick 27 weapons in a 32x32 tile 12:18:20 <04dracoomega> (Frankly, giving a lot of people launchers that don't otherwise have them sounds pretty scary sometimes, but fun) 12:18:47 <04dracoomega> I wonder if there are any artifact weapons that would be fun to hand a bunch of fake copies out to monsters. How many are fun and actually work for this? 12:19:07 <09hellmonk> Dark maul 12:19:10 <04dracoomega> 'Everyone gets a mace of variability" >.> 12:19:24 <04dracoomega> What happens next, nobody knows! 12:19:36 <06regret-⸸nde※> rift 12:19:43 <04dracoomega> Help 12:20:30 <09hellmonk> The monster is called rift wizard and it hands out copies of rift 12:20:33 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...looking at the unrand list and I'm wondering if spectral not-polearms would still be any interesting or if everybody's just stuck behind floating weapons) 12:20:35 <09hellmonk> Original name do not steal 12:20:59 <04dracoomega> How does the damage of monster spectral weapons work, I wonder 12:21:04 <04dracoomega> I don't actually know 12:24:12 <06pleasingfungus> same as players 12:24:27 <06pleasingfungus> it’s cleave% of the monster’s normal attack basically 12:24:37 <06pleasingfungus> like they were cleaving with that weapon 12:25:37 DoNotCum (L10 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 12:26:17 <04dracoomega> Why is it always and only you? 12:26:24 DoNotCum (L10 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 12:26:27 <04dracoomega> And not even on the same floor anymore 12:26:35 DoNotCum (L10 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 12:26:43 <04dracoomega> Like, I have looked at several of these crash logs without insight 12:26:56 <04dracoomega> But it's strange that it keeps happening in different places 12:27:20 <04dracoomega> Because it feels like if it were happening this widely, to monsters on different floors, that it should also be happening to someone else, right? 12:27:57 DoNotCum (L10 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 12:29:08 DoNotCum (L10 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:8) 12:37:50 <06pleasingfungus> could be related to rcfile 12:38:00 <06pleasingfungus> could be a well deserved curse for that username 13:30:11 DoNotCum (L11 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:10) 13:47:00 <06pleasingfungus> !crashlog DoNotCum 13:47:01 <04Cerebot> 11. DoNotCum, XL11 DECj, T:10665 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/DoNotCum/crash-DoNotCum-20231222-203010.txt 13:47:11 <06pleasingfungus> !crashlog DoNotCum -2 13:47:13 <04Cerebot> 10/11. DoNotCum, XL10 DECj, T:8883 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/DoNotCum/crash-DoNotCum-20231222-192908.txt 13:47:20 <06pleasingfungus> it's always after an imb 13:47:38 <06pleasingfungus> they cast imb, then walk (i think), then the game crashes 13:48:11 <06pleasingfungus> specifically, they kill something with IMB 13:49:36 <06pleasingfungus> monster_iterator already checks if a monster is alive 14:00:17 <03semi_tonal> it looks like a hybrid bot account, so it being something to do with the rcfile lua does sound pretty feasible 14:01:00 <04dracoomega> There's definitely something in the log about checking threat levels of monsters, and the crash is on something about checking threat levels, but I have no idea if an .rc file can interact with the core game code in any way that could cause a crash 14:01:25 <04dracoomega> Since the stack trace itself doesn't seem to be calling any lua 14:01:26 <03semi_tonal> almost definitely it can, rcfile lua has had ways to cause crashes in the past 14:02:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1357-g3537ca1da6: Blastmotes: explode on wait (elliptic, Implojin) 10(4 minutes ago, 6 files, 19+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3537ca1da663 14:05:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1358-ga1c90ae492: Randomize blastmote push order (acrobat) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1c90ae492bf 14:07:22 <03implojin> that rc is checking monster threat from c_interrupt_activity, would not surprise me at all if that's crashy somehow 14:13:50 <09gammafunk> hah, even qw doesn't use that one 14:14:06 <09gammafunk> and it uses pretty much every other hook 14:14:21 <09gammafunk> that's triggered when you take a long action and get interrupted, presumably? 14:14:56 <03implojin> i tried to look for documentation of c_interrupt_activity when i was writing ff.rc and i think the single example anywhere on the web was a post by dshaligram from when it was originally written, iirc 14:16:59 <09gammafunk> @implojin hooks are (supposed to be) officially documented in dat/dlua/userbase.lua, and that one does have something: lua --- Activity interrupt table. -- Maps activity names to interrupt functions -- When crawl needs to interrupt an internal delay it looks up the delay by -- name in this table and if a function is present, calls it with the -- parameters name, cause, and extra. The function returns true to interrupt, -- false to 14:16:59 express no opinion, and nil for "don't interrupt". Return nil only -- if you really know what you're doing. -- @table chk_interrupt_activity chk_interrupt_activity = { } 14:17:04 <09gammafunk> ah, actually 14:17:06 <09gammafunk> that's chk 14:17:17 <03implojin> yeah, i figured it out eventually 14:17:19 <03implojin> but 14:17:41 <09gammafunk> but the c_... one does have something too: lua --- Internal activity interrupt hook. -- Entry point for chk_interrupt_activity -- -- Notice that c_interrupt_activity defaults to *false* whereas -- c_interrupt_macro defaults to *true*. This is because "false" really just -- means "go ahead and use the default logic to kill this activity" here, -- whereas false is interpreted as "no, don't stop this macro" for -- c_interrupt_macro. -- 14:17:42 -- If c_interrupt_activity, or one of the individual hooks wants to ensure that -- the activity continues, it must return *nil* (make sure you know what you're -- doing when you return nil!). -- @local 14:28:26 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1359-g04589416ad: Add stop_summoning_prompt on evokers (dilly) 10(77 seconds ago, 2 files, 32+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/04589416adcc 14:41:43 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1358-ga1c90ae492 (34) 14:45:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1360-gf40074dcd0: Add kittens 10(82 seconds ago, 14 files, 33+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f40074dcd01f 14:50:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1361-g9dc51933c8: Fix: leaky boulders (particleface) 10(89 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9dc51933c873 15:10:14 New branch created: pull/3414 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3414 15:10:15 03Sean Dewar02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3414 * 0.31-a0-1362-g4f8e3ece09: Fix some issues with Dimensional Bullseye and Portal Projectile 10(7 hours ago, 9 files, 4+ 47-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f8e3ece0962 15:10:15 03Sean Dewar02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3414 * 0.31-a0-1363-g1159ea1793: Fix some duration descriptions 10(57 minutes ago, 3 files, 31+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1159ea1793b7 15:15:29 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1362-g32b5b8ab40: Add always_show_gems 10(8 minutes ago, 7 files, 57+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32b5b8ab4076 15:19:45 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1360-gf40074dcd0 (34) 15:48:55 03Implojin02 07* 0.31-a0-1363-g282adc679d: Enable default gem autopickup 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/282adc679d92 15:49:52 <03implojin> not at all certain that's the canonical way to add a new item type to default autopickup, but we seem to handle default autopick for several existing item types that way, so 15:49:53 <03implojin> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 16:00:08 <06pleasingfungus> i mean, this is only the second time we've added a new item in the last... maybe the last decade? 16:00:12 <06pleasingfungus> unclear how far canon extends 😛 16:02:52 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1362-g32b5b8ab40 (34) 16:06:51 <04dracoomega> So, there's a fairly wild idea I've been mulling over in my head for a while, and the more I think about it, the more I like it. 16:07:18 <04dracoomega> We talked the other month about how it was slightly awkward that Necromancy's 3 'make derived undead' (ie: Animate Dead, Death Channel, and Simulacrum) were packed so close together, but you can't really make Animate Dead level 3 and Death Channel was already not considered good enough at level 7. And while simulacrum may have been really strong pre-nerf, I feel these days that it's not compellingly better than just using animate 16:07:19 dead + death channel considering you have to heavily splash a school you probably otherwise don't care about, plus do more micromanagement. (I've tried a few times and it always felt a little lackluster, tbh). And, of course, Infestation is probably approximately as accessible and overrides simulacrum, too... And it struck me when thinking about other summons - what if it wasn't a necromancy spell at all? But, say... Ice/Alchemy instead (are alchemists 16:07:19 not famous for making short-lived creatures that are abominations against god, after all? :P). Revamp the spell to distinguish it from necromancy by not actually requiring the death of the creature. A melee range touch spell (similar to a super freeze) that creates a couple simulacra of the touched target over the next few turns. Like, does damage and makes a couple blocks of ice nearby that transform into simulacra of the touched creature over the 16:07:20 next few turns (a little like how aspiring flesh work). I think it might also help it feel a lot more differentiated from the other spells that animate dead currently. 16:07:26 <04dracoomega> (No need to touch monster Bind Souls, which already works well.) 16:07:56 <04dracoomega> (Independently wondering if the greater ease of access now means that Irradiate ought to be moved to level 6, but unsure) 16:13:15 <06pleasingfungus> re nerf 16:13:18 <06pleasingfungus> you mean 16:13:19 <06pleasingfungus> %git fa959c11ff1a15a3c9db4c1e4197c00a7727c28c 16:13:20 <04Cerebot> hellmonk3 {GitHub} * 0.30-a0-108-gfa959c11ff: nerf Simulacrum (1 year, 3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa959c11ff1a 16:13:24 <06pleasingfungus> ? 16:14:00 <04dracoomega> I mean, that's somewhat ancillary of this. I am just saying I heard people say it was very strong back then and not now, but I never used that version myself, so I cannot comment 16:14:23 <04dracoomega> I think the 'packed overlapping spells in the level range' is an independent unfortunateness 16:15:01 <04dracoomega> It's not that it's independently weak, but rather that it overlaps with similar nearby things that are easier to use 16:15:09 <06pleasingfungus> possible 16:15:15 <06pleasingfungus> does seem like it depends on what you find in a given game 16:15:36 <06pleasingfungus> part of the advantage of redundancy is that you can have a playstyle without needing to find a specific spell 16:16:06 <06pleasingfungus> simulac clone could be an interesting effect 16:16:26 <06pleasingfungus> i am interested by that pitch 16:16:39 <04dracoomega> I feel like the odds of finding simulacra as your first/only ally creation spell and being able to path towards it is unlikely in practice, even if your general point is true 16:16:42 <06pleasingfungus> not 100% sure there's a forcing problem that requires the change, but think the change might be independently interesting 16:16:53 <06pleasingfungus> oh, certainly not the only ally spell, but it could easily be your highest-level and most powerful one 16:17:01 <04dracoomega> Yes, yes, it's like "This is bad, need fix" and more "This may be more interesting than the current status quo" 16:17:08 <04dracoomega> Er, LESS like that 16:17:19 <06pleasingfungus> think i'd be more into the pitch without the damage component 16:17:28 <06pleasingfungus> delayed clone is quite complex and distinctive enough on its own 16:17:36 <04dracoomega> I thought the analogy to freeze as an iconic Ice spell would actually feel sort of natural 16:17:57 <04dracoomega> It's not obligatory to this, of course 16:18:05 <06pleasingfungus> could poll others. my impression of recent spell and monster designs is that we have been tending strongly toward complexity 16:18:11 <06pleasingfungus> and i am trying to gently push back whenever possible 🙂 16:18:32 <06regret-⸸nde※> were af_drag or blastminers that complex? :P 16:18:47 <04dracoomega> That is fair! That is actually why I leaned to one of the simplest targeting/damage methods that already has precedent, so ice players will be familiar with it ^^; 16:18:49 <06pleasingfungus> more complex than alligators were 🙂 16:18:50 <06regret-⸸nde※> (or b beetle 3) 16:19:03 <04dracoomega> Rather than any new thing on that front 16:19:21 <06pleasingfungus> the less moving parts a spell has, the easier it is for players to understand it, for us to design UI for it, etc. 16:19:24 <03implojin> suspect that if it grants multiple simulacra it's likely to feel powerful enough to not require the damage component to be appealing 16:19:27 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1363-g282adc679d (34) 16:19:56 <04dracoomega> That may be true, sure 16:20:31 <06regret-⸸nde※> (need that Other: part of spell number data so people could see just how many simulacra one could actually make) 16:20:57 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...could do with that either way, really) 16:21:27 <04dracoomega> I tried briefly to see if I could include the pain burst damage numbers in Fugue's damage directly, but there's no way to list it in the full single-spell description and not also try to put it in the damage column in your spell list and wildly overflow it 16:21:38 <04dracoomega> Without more changes 16:21:53 <06regret-⸸nde※> three spells that want Other! 16:22:01 <04dracoomega> Almost assuredly more 16:26:51 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-1363-g282adc679d (34) 16:43:18 wrt spell availibility it is possible for kiku not to give you animate dead and to give both, 1 or (unlikely, 10% of the time?) none of dchan/simulacrum. I bring it up because there might be kiku games even where you aren't using the animate spell of your choosing and the redundancy helps a bit there I think 16:48:45 <04dracoomega> Frankly, the fact that Kiku can currently give you no way to actually animate your wretches beyond necrotize (even if this is a bit unlikely) feels like a mistake 16:50:13 <04dracoomega> Fugue being added even makes this problem somewhat worse 16:50:48 <04dracoomega> Would there be anything wrong with ensuring you are gifted Animate Dead? Like, the most core workhorse spell of the whole thing. 16:51:06 <04dracoomega> Like, even just getting Necrotize into Death Channel isn't exactly great 16:51:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I mean, replacing kiss of death with fugue in the gift list without further changes wouldn't add too much to current issues...) 16:53:20 <04dracoomega> I mean, I get the benefits of spell randomness, but it just sort of feels like a core god ability on a generally-considered-lower-power god shouldn't effectively require the use of another thing they're not guarenteed to provide 16:53:20 <06pleasingfungus> think there were some concerns about kiku being too predictable/consistent in the past, but maybe that was more about gift 2 16:54:34 <04dracoomega> (Like, I wonder at "If you're not gifted Animate Dead in the first spell batch, you will always receive it in the second?) 16:55:24 <04dracoomega> Maybe even giving the second batch at 4 stars instead of 3 (can anyone even cast any of those that early anyway?) 16:55:34 <04dracoomega> Dispel Undead, I guess 16:56:52 <06regret-⸸nde※> early dispel undead for... two or three monsters and ghost vaults? :P 16:57:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> we haven't gotten a lair ghost animal (yet) 16:58:13 <06regret-⸸nde※> (there are technically necromancer vaults in lair but there's only two ends with deriveds in reworked jungle_book and abominations in abyss lair) 16:58:52 <04dracoomega> Can the player expect to be 4 star by the end of Lair on average? 16:59:05 <04dracoomega> Probably if they don't get the altar late? 16:59:45 <04dracoomega> (I mean, maybe not if they're burning a lot of wretches, but probably they aren't doing that without animate dead) 18:06:06 <09gammafunk> I would definitely dispute the idea that kiku is a lower-power god. It's probably fair to say that gift variation changes kiku's early (say pre second gift) power substantially, but overall it's a strong god because of all the synergy it has with undead ally spells. It even held the global high score for a bit recently. 18:09:24 <09gammafunk> I think there's some merit to the idea that Wretches will get underutilized early on if animate dead isn't gifted, but it feels off to guarantee that spell. 18:10:14 <06pleasingfungus> solution: add a new low-level corpse-using necromancy spell. i call it corpse explosion and it's gonna be a blast 18:10:20 <09gammafunk> hell yes 18:10:30 <09gammafunk> finally, Silent implemented 18:10:42 <06pleasingfungus> wow, this is a diablo 2 reference (silent is also ftw tho) 18:11:02 <09gammafunk> wouldn't shock me to learn that megacrit got the name from diablo 2 18:11:31 <09gammafunk> it's a bit tricky to think of a different lower level corpse using spell though 18:12:31 <09gammafunk> Although it was (maybe???) a joke, something like corpse explosion is probably an example of the type of creativeness you'd need for a new lower-level necro spell that worked with wretches 18:12:43 <09gammafunk> because you probably can't make another one that just makes derived undead 18:12:44 <04dracoomega> Bone Shards returns??? >.> 18:13:18 <09gammafunk> ??kiku randbook 18:13:19 <04Cerebot> kiku randbook[1/5]: First gift: Up to four spells that you do not know and can cast from the following list: {Necrotize} (guaranteed if unknown and castable), {Kiss of Death}, {Sublimation of Blood}, {Cigotuvi's Dreadful Rot}, {Vampiric Draining}, {Animate Dead}. 18:13:24 <04dracoomega> (But honestly, 'Thing that does near you fires a missile at other random enemy' is maybe not unreasonable? It doesn't seem to care a lot about WHAT sort of death it came from, though) 18:14:20 <09gammafunk> ??cigotuvi's dreadful rot 18:14:20 <04Cerebot> cigotuvi's dreadful rot[1/1]: L2 Necro/Air/Poison. Rots the caster's flesh, draining them (65 points, similar to evoke invis) and dropping a a cloud of miasma on their tile. Gives one turn of miasma immunity. Better hustle! Replaces Corpse Rot in 0.30. 18:15:03 <09gammafunk> !learn edit cigotuvi's_dreadful_rot s/a a cloud/a cloud/ 18:15:03 <04Cerebot> cigotuvi's dreadful rot[1/1]: L2 Necro/Air/Poison. Rots the caster's flesh, draining them (65 points, similar to evoke invis) and dropping a cloud of miasma on their tile. Gives one turn of miasma immunity. Better hustle! Replaces Corpse Rot in 0.30. 18:16:09 <09gammafunk> sublimation of blood is kind of a funny gift spell for that early 18:16:16 <04dracoomega> Yeah, it's actually pretty terrible at low power 18:16:19 <04dracoomega> And only useful later 18:17:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I don't know that high score's inherent speed-running nature matters very much for the average three-rune player or 100%-progress-player, but Kiku is pretty low in the overall win statistics with e.g. "!lg * recentishish char!~~mune s = god / won". maybe if I was looking for people who've won, say, between twice and and a dozen times over the past year?... or maybe just more than once.) 18:17:14 <04dracoomega> ....wait, actually, Fugue will benefit from the wretches just dying on their own, won't it? 18:17:21 <04dracoomega> Or will it? 18:17:41 <06pleasingfungus> i have no idea how fugue works tbh 18:17:57 <09gammafunk> ??fugue of the fallen 18:17:57 <04Cerebot> I don't have a page labeled fugue_of_the_fallen in my learndb. 18:18:11 <04dracoomega> I mean, I am going to test it right now 18:18:37 <06regret-⸸nde※> it's wereblood but allies help and you get 2d5 pain explosions whenever you attack at slay(7) (which is now its cap instead of 9) 18:19:07 <04dracoomega> Fugue does not care about them 18:19:16 <09gammafunk> they're probably seen as firewood 18:19:20 <04dracoomega> (On reflection: since they do not grant xp) 18:19:22 <09gammafunk> ah 18:19:25 <06regret-⸸nde※> ha. 18:19:27 <09gammafunk> well, that's mostly the same thing 18:19:34 <04dracoomega> Pretty much 18:20:01 <09gammafunk> making wretches to just get that pre-stacked doesn't sound like great gameplay anyhow 18:20:24 <04dracoomega> Possibly not. (Though I'm not sure it's as effective as just turning them into zombies anyway) 18:20:27 <04dracoomega> Though one could do both 18:20:28 <04dracoomega> So.... 18:20:44 <09gammafunk> that's the thing about wretches, I guess, it's a bit more interesting if you're setting up some damage over time thing with them 18:21:02 <04dracoomega> I mean, it helps that you care about what corpses you actually get, also 18:21:07 <09gammafunk> right 18:21:50 <09gammafunk> which is really screaming "make derived undead" and not these sort of effects that don't care much about the details of the monster doing the dying 18:23:11 <04dracoomega> I'm not sure that "It currently makes you mildly less likely to have a way to activate wretches entirely from Kiku gifts" is a sufficiently compelling reason that a spell that everyone else can already use has to stay where it is, though. 18:23:40 <04dracoomega> (Especially if it's already literally the hardest to cast) 18:24:27 <09gammafunk> sorry, which spell are you actually referring to by this? 18:25:26 <06regret-⸸nde※> simulacrum moving to alchemy to reduce the overlap + clashing use position it has between animate dead / death channel / infestation 18:25:48 <06pleasingfungus> note that we already special-case wretches to work for some other stuff that normally wants xp-giving victims (i think other necromancy stuff?) 18:26:00 <06regret-⸸nde※> (and not requiring killing, but being slowly forming blocks of ice) 18:28:03 <04dracoomega> I guess you can vampiric drain them (very briefly) 18:29:28 <09gammafunk> proposed new form of simulacrum might be fun. It feels like it works in a more hybridy type of character due to the range limitation, which is probably nice for Al 18:29:51 <09gammafunk> it might free us up to use simulacra with ne/kiku at a different spell level, too 18:30:38 <09gammafunk> which could help with our current early wretch utilization (EWU) problem potentially 18:31:46 <04dracoomega> You mean sort of like a... mini simulacra at lower levels? 18:32:08 <09gammafunk> right, just tossing out that idea really; you have to find a way to make that effect not be overpowered etc 18:32:23 <09gammafunk> making a simulacra for each wretch could easilly get out of hand 18:34:03 <04dracoomega> Something dying spawns a simulacra for exactly a single extra attack? Or downscales their HD based on spellpower instead of using the base form's HD to limit cold damage from being silly at low level? 18:34:35 <04dracoomega> (The '1 attack' thing does imply that you have to be summoning wretches straight on top of things, of course) 18:36:46 <09gammafunk> I guess I would be hesitant about making them different from normal simulacra to the point where they died upon melee. It does also possibly lead to frustration to have to set up multiple wretch->simu cycles to kill things 18:37:30 <09gammafunk> limiting hd could be a viable route to reign in damage 18:37:47 <09gammafunk> *??orc warrior 18:37:47 <04Cerebot> orc warrior (o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 24-32 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 12 | weapons, items, doors, fighter | Res: will(20) | Corpse | XP: 133 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 18:37:52 <09gammafunk> *??orc warrior simulacrum 18:37:53 <04Cerebot> orc warrior simulacrum (Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 4 | HP: 10-14 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Dam: 9(cold:4-11) | undead, evil, unbreathing | Res: will(5), cold+++, poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | Vul: fire, holy | XP: 7 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 18:38:25 <09gammafunk> those usually have a weapon so it's not quite that bad 18:38:30 <09gammafunk> *??orc warrior simulacrum hd:2 18:38:30 <04Cerebot> orc warrior simulacrum (Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 2 | HP: 9-13 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Dam: 9(cold:2-5) | undead, evil, unbreathing | Res: will(2), cold+++, poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | Vul: fire, holy | XP: 1 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 18:38:44 <09gammafunk> certainly helps even dropping 2 hd there 18:40:28 <09gammafunk> oh, now might be a good time to bring this up in case anyone else likes this idea; I wanted to make necrotize work by immediately creating a spectral of the target instead of creating a skloton upon death. This solves the currently annoying proplem of necrotize being a fairly bad damage spell that often makes a skeleton that doesn't get to do very much, since you killed the thing already. It's still a useful skloton, often 18:40:28 enough, but equally often it just isn't. You would get a spectral that started fighting the monster immediately, and probably you could no longer necrotize a monster once its spectral was summoned. It might need to poof quickly after its target died, haunt-style. This could even let us remove sklotons, which are not particularly interesting derived undead. 18:41:16 <09gammafunk> I guess that further decreases wretch utilization though! 18:41:44 <06regret-⸸nde※> (but I like all the tiles we have and the occasional vault implying the meat was used for something else but the skeleton was animated seperately!) 18:41:46 <06regret-⸸nde※> :P 18:42:03 <04dracoomega> I did feel in practice that the skeleton often lasts too little to bring it to the next battle, and by the time you're regularly fighting multiple relevant monsters at once, necrotize does too little damage to get you skeletons often 18:42:19 <09gammafunk> yeah, it feels like it's not the best gameplay loop 18:42:20 <04dracoomega> (So it's sort of like "Pain + minor benefit" more than anything else. Which, I mean, is fine) 18:42:39 <09gammafunk> so mini death channel (or think of it more like mini haunt) seemed a better one 18:42:41 <04dracoomega> But it's a sad wretch utilizer 18:42:52 <06regret-⸸nde※> (actual player-stuff-wise the necrotize skeleton's awful though I'd agree) 18:43:25 <09gammafunk> I'm not sure necrotize wretch was ever a thing people did a lot, but it's probably perfectly reasonable to do sometimes 18:43:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, you do it when you're unlucky and that's all you can do 18:43:42 <04dracoomega> I've done it before 18:44:10 <04dracoomega> But it's a lot slower to activate and gives less payoffs (actually, you often can't even necrotize a single set of wretches before some fall apart) 18:44:17 <09gammafunk> heh 18:44:35 <09gammafunk> well, you could make the spectral not die quite so aggressively 18:45:00 <09gammafunk> but I don't think it should have a very long lived timer; to be sure I haven't looked at the duration of the current skloton 18:45:24 <04dracoomega> Oh, so this was something you are planning to do, and not something you were originally planning to do before necrotize as it now exists existed? 18:45:48 <09gammafunk> this is something I wanted do after seeing and using necrotize 18:45:52 <04dracoomega> Ah, fair 18:46:47 <09gammafunk> anyhow, doesn't really help your current decision (actually arguably makes it worse!) 18:47:33 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I'd be a little wary of another level 1 spell providing allies considering how people were worried low-level allies are so strong versus aoop, not that I want to go as far as removing the three different L1/2 spells that do such, and also I guess it'd still do an MR check) 18:48:30 <09gammafunk> yeah, to be clear, this is a proposed replacement for necrotize and would still probably even be called necrotize 18:49:10 <04dracoomega> If you're worried about people using it to block aoops (I am not even sure this is a realistic concern), you could always spawn the spectral on the other side of the monster 18:49:16 <04dracoomega> Like, on the continuation of the beam 18:49:45 <06regret-⸸nde※> (probably the Optimal AOOP Avoidance concerns has died down with the latest rework anyway) 18:50:14 <04dracoomega> Here's a question, though. If it does this when you first hit the monster, what's to stop you from using your level 1 spell to make lategame spectrals down the road. Does anything? (I mean, it may not be the best use of your turns at that point for a dedicated necromancer, but on someone who isn't?) 18:50:58 <04dracoomega> I guess it's will-resistible, but I think it has a high multiplier? 18:51:05 <04dracoomega> Maybe it doesn't; I dunno 18:51:29 <09gammafunk> yeah, a valid concern, perhaps it simply doesn't work on monsters of sufficient hd, but there are potentially still weird useful targets 18:54:41 <09gammafunk> An aside, but I'm not actually sure that the spell need to directly damage the target at all after passing the will check. Making the spectral might be sufficient. 18:55:23 <04dracoomega> Alternately, what if instead of creating a spectral, it just made a specific 'torn soul' or something, that scaled with your power but logically capped out at something low? Like, this doesn't vary by monster as much, but let's be real - how many earlygame monsters actually vary all that much to the point that their base form matters over the course of a short battle? 18:55:53 <04dracoomega> I feel like most of the noteworthy properties come later 18:56:11 <04dracoomega> (I dunno, maybe that feels blander) 18:56:38 <09gammafunk> yeah, since it was to become a spectral, actual properties aside from speed and damage don't matter too much. Of course AC/EV matter a bit too 18:56:56 <04dracoomega> I feel like deeper in the game has more variance in that than early 18:57:22 <04dracoomega> Where if you take equipment and spells/abilities away, a lot of things are a lot closer to each other than they are later on 18:58:11 <04dracoomega> (Whereas later, there's huge differences in zombie quality between the more and less suitable things) 18:59:12 <06pleasingfungus> gamma: agree that if we changed necrotize to make a spectral on success, it wouldn’t need direct damage 19:00:12 <09gammafunk> yeah, you notice the relatively overpowered spectral/zombies that you create like hydra and (much later) shrikes etc with lots of speed or that have high damage attacks, and you notice/hate when you have really weak ones. 19:01:04 <04dracoomega> To be honest, in the earlygame, if (as you said earlier) you could only cast this spell on a given enemy a single time, and it also did no damage, I feel like... a lot of times one bad damage roll means you're kinda screwed. Like, you cast it against a gnoll and the gnoll immediately swats it and... and then what do you do? You don't have a spell anymore. 19:01:50 <09gammafunk> no, by a single time, I mean that you can't maintain more than one spectral 19:02:01 <09gammafunk> not that you can't try again after the spectral dies 19:02:08 <04dracoomega> Oh. I thought you meant like "You can only tear out part of a thing's soul once." 19:02:19 <09gammafunk> yeah don't think it needs that kind of limitation 19:02:29 <04dracoomega> Okay, sure, then it doing no damage is fine 19:02:34 <09gammafunk> you need it for skeletons for, I guess, thematic reasons 19:02:55 <09gammafunk> and well it's on-death anyhow etc 19:03:31 <04dracoomega> Yeah. (It's just, a starter spell just stopping doing anything after a bad roll has obvious awkwardnesses, as I'm sure you can see :P) 19:03:45 <04dracoomega> Maintaining one at a time is fine 19:03:57 <09gammafunk> right, my one-at-time limitation is solely to prevent snowballing with it 19:04:24 <09gammafunk> and one-at-a-time per monster even 19:04:42 <09gammafunk> seems fine that fighting 2 monsters means you have up to 2 spectrals (one from each monster) 19:04:55 <09gammafunk> but if you could make 4 spectrals from one monster, you have a balance problem 19:04:58 <04dracoomega> Oh, I thought you meant 1 in total, tbh 19:05:03 <04dracoomega> Communication is difficult! 19:05:08 <09gammafunk> well, I guess that's a balance knob! 19:06:05 <09gammafunk> maybe 1 spectral with its af_drain would be Quite Powerful in practice? but a spectral is not much different from its original monster (for these early game monsters especially, like you mentioned) 19:06:13 <04dracoomega> (To be honest, if there was a single skeleton limit, I wonder if necrotise would be fine to have the skeletons last a lot longer. You can't really snowball with that, just get a minor pet. And the damage trigger makes it naturally hard to use later in the game) 19:07:34 <09gammafunk> it might be fine balance-wise but it's definitely encouraging using the spell to always have an ally to lug around to fall behind 19:07:45 <09gammafunk> when you encounter the next monster 19:08:18 <04dracoomega> I mean, this is a thing you'd like to have, but I'm not sure how practical it is to try and ensure this 19:08:36 <04dracoomega> Since necrotise itself is going to steadily be a worse use of your turns, in a battle against something that is trying to kill you 19:09:25 <04dracoomega> And I kind of suspect that at the point where you're not actually killing things directly or quickly with necrotise and the thing you're aiming at leaves a relevant body, then it's then starting to be a problem to waste turns killing it ineffectively 19:09:48 <04dracoomega> Like, the skeleton doesn't have to be permenant, just... longer 19:09:53 <09gammafunk> sure, but if you fight some easy monster, still useful to have a free meat shield to immediately duck behind when a monster with e.g. los-range hex appears, for example 19:10:34 <04dracoomega> So much of necromancer long-term play involves trying to have meat shields in various ways. Does it really change much if ocassionally you can have one before animate dead, I wonder? 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1364-gd47e5fa42b: Buff?: Clouds of negative energy -> clouds of excruciating misery 10(4 days ago, 15 files, 40+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d47e5fa42b0c 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1365-geb2fc1291e: New monster: weeping skulls, for Ossuaries / Abyss ( / Crypt vaults) 10(2 days ago, 21 files, 188+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb2fc1291ee5 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1366-g22ebceef79: Monster revision: Flying skulls -> Laughing skulls 10(2 days ago, 33 files, 206+ 135-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22ebceef7955 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1367-gdac2563cd0: New monster: burial acolytes, for Ossuaries / Crypt vaults / Kiku altars 10(26 hours ago, 14 files, 136+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dac2563cd0aa 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1368-g38fc4fe9c3: Nerf plain elf monster stats and xp 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38fc4fe9c3d3 19:11:26 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1369-g7de3fab2a5: Tweak & distribute new skulls & acolytes across portals & vaults 10(9 minutes ago, 15 files, 482+ 455-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7de3fab2a5de 19:15:40 <09gammafunk> My sense about necrotize even with longer-lived skeletons is that it's struggling to fill two roles: satisfying damage spell and satisfying ally spell, and it can't be particularly good at either in order to be balanced. So it's not especially fun to use a fairly bad damage spell to kill a monster and get a skeleton that you have a decent chance of taking to the next combat. Sometimes it just doesn't make it, a waste of a rare 19:15:40 skloton. Often it does and it's probably going to be of some assistance, but often not a lot because it's a skeleton. So the "mini haunt" idea is making it do the thing that feels more fun (fight monsters with your undead ally) and hopefully the ally it makes is even a little more interesting (e.g. it has a drain attack). 19:16:59 <09gammafunk> But yeah it's possible that extending the duration of the skeleton will improve things; maybe it won't be too "degenerate" to have a skeleton companion with you a bit longer 19:17:53 <09gammafunk> and, in other news, we seem to have a bunch of commits 19:18:00 <04dracoomega> We do! 19:18:03 <06regret-⸸nde※> s k u l l s 19:18:09 <04dracoomega> Fun skulls 19:18:12 <04dracoomega> Emotive skulls 19:18:28 <04dracoomega> (Skulls with a few really great speech lines, imo) 19:19:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> (it's kind of dumb because a lot of crypt ends are kind of dumb, but my main inclination of not removing skeletons is that they don't add too much additional complexity versus zombies but we have a lot of vaults that want multiple sets of undead things to go alongside the... ten now? other skeleton / skull monsters) 19:22:17 <06regret-⸸nde※> (but those clearly need some revisions anyway considering how unequal the notions of undead theme sets are (vampires have little, mummies have little without heavily hitting Tomb's space, "zombie-ish" corporeal undead are mostly boring, bones have tons, wraiths and spectrals have tons)) 19:24:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I guess mummies could join more with zombies but they're not adding much beyond a very very sparing amount of mummy priests or profane servitors) 19:25:51 04Build failed for 08master @ 7de3fab2 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7305584645 19:27:17 <09gammafunk> at this point we should give out a cheevo for anyone who makes a batch of commits that doesn't fail tag_upgrade=false 19:27:27 <04dracoomega> God, it's so easy 19:28:33 <09gammafunk> I like the laughing skull design, having only experienced them through reading the commit. They sound fund 19:29:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> just need to take every still-vanilla-ish undead and involve rN checks in some way and then rN can pretend it's getting closer to an actual resist 19:30:14 <06regret-⸸nde※> (pain-brand abominations?...) 19:32:36 <09hellmonk> vamp ghouls? 19:32:48 <09hellmonk> ig too close to jiangshi 19:43:31 <06regret-⸸nde※> draco and I have wondered back and forth about ghouls getting drain str & dex attacks since draining isn't very much of what ghouls interfact with, and whether it'd be awful to be statdrained down super low or if ghost moths show that's fine in lair branches 19:52:13 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1369-g7de3fab2a5 (34) 21:12:26 <09gammafunk> I should look at those sequell issues 21:13:28 <09gammafunk> huh, that commit certainly looks right 21:18:42 03regret-index02 07* 0.31-a0-1370-gf52a5a9ab3: Adjust new skull noise 10(61 seconds ago, 3 files, 22+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f52a5a9ab32a 21:34:17 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1370-gf52a5a9ab3 (34) 21:37:41 horredbonez (L14 DsIE) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Orc:1) 21:40:12 <04dracoomega> I was going to say "That's, uh... quite the log there" but also that's apparently 0.25 23:31:34 <06pleasingfungus> thinking more about twerfs or w/e we’re calling them 23:32:17 <06pleasingfungus> specifically thinking more about ideas for the little bit of extra complexity / downside i’d like to include along with dual wielding and slow wielding 23:33:09 <06pleasingfungus> currently wondering about attractitis. like shoutitis - chance to trigger when you first see a mon - but it’s attraction instead. tlocs em maybe 1-3 tiles toward you, doesn’t wake. 23:33:29 <06pleasingfungus> dangerous, sometimes good for stabbers and melee, often bad for ranged and casters. 23:33:39 <03implojin> clearly they must be twants 23:33:46 <06pleasingfungus> wow, rude 23:33:53 <06pleasingfungus> do we allow that kind of language around here? 23:34:29 <06pleasingfungus> (i’ve also been doing more thinking about themes and the ones that will be most exciting to players. gnomepunk is somewhere below the bottom of that list) 23:35:07