00:24:44 Hello, made an account on akrasiac a few hours ago and ran into some issues. Are one of the server admins available to help me out? 00:30:48 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1338-gb567cfdca4 (34) 01:49:10 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 04:19:04 -!- kf_ is now known as kf 04:23:31 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5140-g5775ae71e1 05:31:10 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1338-gb567cfd (34) 10:16:54 <05icoson> zegma: I might be able to help (sorry, not on IRC at the moment though, probably a PM there if I appear to be on will go into the void) 10:20:44 <05icoson> I do see an account with that name registered at 2023-12-20 15:06:32 10:24:18 <05icoson> hm, I wonder if there's currently a bug with changing email 10:24:28 <05icoson> which would be unfortunate 10:40:49 03advil02 07* 0.31-a0-1339-g40f9ea6007: fix: correctly show email in change email ui on webtiles 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/40f9ea60070b 10:41:09 <05icoson> zegma: having looked into this, likely you were going to ask about "email set to null" messages you were getting. There was a bug in this UI, but any email change still went through 10:41:52 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1340-g7095806d71: Fix iron giant not having a quote 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7095806d7198 10:46:58 <05icoson> zegma: also I can say that your current email in the db is the same one you signed up with 10:47:14 04Build failed for 08master @ 40f9ea60 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7291441683 10:47:28 04Build failed for 08master @ 7095806d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7291449751 10:51:20 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1340-g7095806d71 (34) 10:52:46 <05icoson> uh, did ogre get accidentally removed? 10:52:57 <05icoson> (at least, I'm not aware of any intentional ogre removal?) 10:53:11 <05icoson> What species would you like to be now? ogre _That species isn't available. 10:53:51 <05icoson> hm, I see it did get removed 10:54:06 <05icoson> I have to say, there's a ton of changes happening that just aren't getting discussed here, and I don't really like that 10:54:26 <05icoson> anyways, its removal wasn't done right and broke the tests 10:58:39 <05icoson> (Esp this close to a feature freeze / release) 11:01:42 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1341-g9953226333: Turn Oni drunken brawling into a real mutation 10(3 minutes ago, 9 files, 24+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/995322633327 11:01:42 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1342-g273af0913d: Fix a test failure 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/273af0913dd8 11:01:42 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1343-gcd514f47d3: Silence a compiler warning about shadowed variables 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd514f47d3dc 11:15:36 <06pleasingfungus> yeah, sorry, seems like discussion has fully moved to roguelikes discord at present. not sure what power i have to change that 11:15:46 <06pleasingfungus> i am merely a passenger on the dracoomega / regret-index train 11:15:56 <06pleasingfungus> choo choo 12:05:54 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1343-gcd514f47d3 (34) 12:16:44 <06regret-⸸nde※> I had tried in the past to get much discussion going on here without much success beyond essentially being public DMs with PF- meanwhile, in the roguelikes discord there's been varying degrees of access to implojin, gammafunk, hellmonk, and elliptic 12:18:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> (which alongside me, draco, and PF makes seven or so devs) 12:19:45 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I guess also the extremely rare words from ebering and nicolae, they've been clearly unavailable the last few months) 12:21:19 <06regret-⸸nde※> draco and I essentially went where the other devs were >_> 12:26:58 <06regret-⸸nde※> all of the big recent systematic changes (armataur regen rampage, removing meteoran and adding gems + explore regen to humans, moving 2xPotion tongue to ogre and altering it to a new race with less "dumb brute" associations, the poison + transmutations -> alchemy merger) were done with several days discussion with several other devs in said other channel, plus the input of experienced players with 30-streaks or nearly / all 12:26:59 combos won 12:30:44 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also I guess chaos brand revamps and lower level talisman balance) 12:35:10 <08wormsofcan> the alchemy change sounds like a substantial change this late 12:36:04 <08wormsofcan> not familiar with the amount of bugs that skill shifting like this creates though 12:36:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> that at least was heavily assessed in a public branch that was reviewed by multiple devs 12:39:25 <08wormsofcan> reading up on the sticky flame changes also sounds a little sketchy to do them for this release 12:39:35 <05sastreii> I was as confused as advil: i mean usually changes like those were widely discussed before being merged, and now i can barely keep up with the updates (even now that i’m very active). IMO those seems fair changes to me but i’m no game designer and i’m fairly new here, but idk they seems a lot in a really short timespan 12:39:40 <08wormsofcan> reading a lot of "i'm not sure how strong new sticky flame" comments 12:43:18 <06pleasingfungus> hm? as in, they think it's weak, or they think it's too strong? 12:43:24 <06pleasingfungus> also, do they mean vs the player or vs monsters? 12:47:35 <06regret-⸸nde※> sticky flame as a newly alchemy player spell has been assessed multiple times as a very big initial burst of power that falls off rapidly and still has its holes- it scales poorly with power (the intensity doesn't go up, just impact damage), it needs even shorter range than ramparts and doesn't immediately push monsters away than IMB, it doesn't work on wraith / shadows, and one needs a fair bit of weapon / defense skilling 12:47:35 support to be standing one's ground to keep it active against hydras / mambas 12:48:38 <06regret-⸸nde※> (and even in orc-ish it's still single target) 12:48:38 <06pleasingfungus> when will gamers realize the combined power of bsig + sflam 12:49:00 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also it has antisynergy with meph!) 12:49:45 <08wormsofcan> a lot of comments on monster new sticky flame about being unsure if it's too strong 12:49:57 <06regret-⸸nde※> while the impact damage numbers may be adjustable it's mostly just a question of "do we want venom mages to flee from every pre-lair wight band"- 12:49:59 <06regret-⸸nde※> oh 12:50:36 <06regret-⸸nde※> azrael did lose it two days later 12:52:08 <06regret-⸸nde※> bombardier beetles have a description and their spell has a description that are both meant to directly tell the player how it'll wear off when moving, and as a slow ranged monster with weak melee it'll tutorialize by either walking away or moving towards 12:53:30 <06regret-⸸nde※> maybe the status light could be a little different? though the fact it's currently just Fire affords space to display Fire+++ 12:55:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...and thinking over various options, I'm not sure it wouldn't just be thought of as giving old sticky flame a new name >_>) 12:57:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> since bombardier beetles are meant to be essentially ball pythons in terms of their danger levels and mechanic demonstration they might be reasonably made weaker soonish (though they're nowhere near priests or gnolls in the last batch of hours) 12:59:07 <06regret-⸸nde※> sun moths lost bolt of energy recently to focus on sticky flame and were so sparsely placed they've got a lot of competition versus everything else already accepted as major threats in spider; balrugs were already cautiously used because of a speed 12 fireball'er (even if they don't feel nearly as intimidating as they did like a decade ago) and are only used in vaults behind runed doors before depths (or Elf summons and Elf 12:59:08 hasn't really changed being Elf) 13:00:00 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also searing wretches lost the effect because it used to do nothing on them and they're meant to focus on searing) 13:00:10 <06regret-⸸nde※> main concern would be deep elf pyromancers, I guess 13:13:58 <06regret-⸸nde※> (as a random anecdotal note, I've gone over to reading the roguelikes discord channel backlog from while I was asleep and note that: implojin and elliptic were talking about armataur and human regen; PF and elliptic were talking with Draco about Mercury Vapours and what substances might be parseable as weakening more than the living; gammafunk and hellmonk were talking about the size of hell ends relative to the rest of the 13:13:59 branches these days) 13:14:48 <05icoson> my take: dev discussion happening primarily in a non-(adequately)-logged, non-public setting that requires such constant attention is long-term corrosive to an OSS project like this one. All devs are (or can be) here, the active devs do actually check here as far as I can tell.. I'm far from the only person to complain about this over the last while, as this has been an ongoing issue. This discord doesn't get such immediate responses, 13:14:49 and tbh I think this is probably the appeal more than specifically who is where. Personally I'd rather open this discord up if that would help than de facto have discussion move to the roguelikes one. As a side note (and this is also a complaint that is far from unique to me) I don't think it's ideal for that channel either for dev discussion to dominate it 13:21:17 <05sastreii> Strongly agree with that 13:23:31 <08wormsofcan> yeah I do not bother reading backlog in roguelikes because I barely check it once a week 13:23:32 <03wheals> i think the main concern in the past over opening up this channel (well technically it's open right now, but getting to the IRC channel seems complicated enough that in practice people don't come) was moderation 13:23:49 <03wheals> I'm happy enough to lend a hand with it though 13:24:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> Draco and I would agree a fair bit with the principle- we had both been talking here before! There's a bit of a problem that design discussion can spiral out easily from a random inquiry about the power level of X or if Y vault is supposed to look / be like this, though, and I'd worry about how much a new channel would be adopted here actually producing much of note instead of just making two new places to monitor >_> 13:25:20 For what it's worth, I generally agree with a fair bit of that. I initially wanted to keep my dev discussion here, and greatly resisted doing much talking in #dcss, but the truth of the matter is that, well, that is where a lot of the relevant conversation was already happening. In a vacuum, I agree that conflating 'beginner asks for help' and 13:25:20 'devs discuss balance changes' into the one channel is non-ideal, but I think there's at least two essential practical problems here: 13:25:21 1) You can't easily transplant an existing conversation community from one place to another. Even if you say "You people should go here for this", many of them either won't or won't participate nearly as actively in the 'new' place. I'm reminded a little of the well-known social media platform problem of "This place sucks, but it's also where 13:25:21 everyone is." 13:25:22 2) The flow of conversation from 'player encounters something' to 'people (and devs) begin discussing the design of it' is SO natural and automatic that I think even if we tried to enforce more separation between topic scopes, we'd still constantly end up with either relevant design chatter happening in #dcss or just a lot less of it happening 13:25:22 period. (ie: "Oh, this is more of a -dev topic." and then most of the people in the first conversation not moving over to participate in any other) 13:25:52 <05icoson> I don't think this discord needs a new channel, what I meant by opening it up was letting more players who like to participate in design discussion register here 13:26:06 <05icoson> (without an invite) 13:26:06 And I think there's actually a tangible benefit to active, veteran players being involved in some of these discussions, whether they're devs or not 13:27:14 <09hellmonk> Sorry, I spent a long time posting in there before joining dev team so it's force of habit from me. Can try to punt design question over here a bit more 13:29:27 <08wormsofcan> i think it would be more prudent to gather initial feedback from the roguelikes, but once you feel you have enough for a concrete proposal, continue the discussion here (by summarizing the important parts of the roguelikes discord) 13:29:51 I find myself wondering a little if like... if some of the concern is a lack of logging or easy way to see discussed topics if one wasn't there, if it would help for like a... mostly read-only summary channel of "Major things discussed and agreed/semi-agreed future changes". So that people not involved could have a better idea what was going on. 13:29:52 ...but I think in practice, asking people to write 'meeting minutes' whenever chatter gets sufficiently active is doomed to failure >.> 13:30:43 Like, "Every now and again it'll happen" but that doesn't really help a lot 13:33:19 <08wormsofcan> personally i've done very few code changes but i've always brought them up here before actually going through with them just to make sure everyone else is aware of whatever it is i'm planning on changing (and to get it logged) 13:35:02 <05icoson> I do think over time since both have existed, the balance between here and roguelikes #dcss has shifted back and forth occasionally, and I've tried to nudge it when I can (incl now); I agree it isn't realistic to expect no dev discussion to happen there or to try to redirect an in-progress discussion without breaking its flow, but I think this channel still reaches a larger group of devs more reliably, if sometimes with less immediate 13:35:02 responses. I actually think the irc logging (at least in principle) makes it easier for the community to keep up. So personally I'd rather have duplicated discussion than it not being here 13:35:44 <05icoson> as a side note from reading old irc logs I'm pretty sure a variant of this same debate was raging between the email list ppl and the irc ppl in the old days (before I was involved) 13:36:25 <08wormsofcan> email...... that's ancient history... 13:37:04 <03wheals> as long as the usenet people get properly updated on the goings-on we should be good 13:37:28 <05icoson> didn't you hear that google is killing usenet 13:37:38 <06pleasingfungus> i'm also going to push back a bit, gently, against the premises: > dev discussion happening primarily in a non-(adequately)-logged, non-public setting that requires such constant attention is long-term corrosive to an OSS project like this one... i agree completely that discord is a terrible long term solution to storing discussion history, and that it is likely that much of what happened in the roguelikes discord (and all 13:37:39 other discords) will eventually vanish down the memory hole. with that said... The roguelikes discord is public. In fact, it is significantly more accessible than IRC for many (most?) modern users, who already have a Discord account set up and have no experience with IRC. Furthermore, the roguelikes discord search - while bad! - is leagues away better than the official crawl-dev IRC logs. I can generally find what i'm looking for in #dcss logs. I 13:37:39 long ago gave up on searching #crawl-dev. 13:38:26 <05icoson> I don't think I'm willing to call any discord server truly public 13:38:41 <08wormsofcan> wow, roguelikes discord search better than #crawl-dev discord search??? 13:38:43 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...the s-z.org/crawl-dev logs have been very awkwardly non-functional for a while, search wise 13:38:53 <05icoson> also don't agree about discord search vs grep 13:38:57 The point about discord search is actually incredibly true, now that you mention it. Lately, I have *repeatedly* gone back over literal years of player commentary on specific spells and monsters to see what the response and opinions on them are, which is very valuable 13:39:27 <05icoson> (s-z.org in particular is broken and neil no longer has access to it) 13:40:13 <08wormsofcan> what's the current log repo then 13:40:31 <05icoson> also, yeah, roguelikes discord search is completely useless for finding dev discussion 🙂 13:40:55 <06pleasingfungus> advil: i don't have the IRC logs in a grep-accessible form 🙂 13:40:58 <09hellmonk> You just have to search my posts and agree with them ✅ 13:41:12 <05icoson> that is a you problem 😛 13:41:16 <06pleasingfungus> ................ 13:41:25 <05icoson> (they're very easy to get?) 13:41:26 <06pleasingfungus> i'm very confused about whether we're trying to have a serious conversation or not 13:41:36 <06pleasingfungus> i mean, i literally don't know where they are or how to find them 13:41:41 <06pleasingfungus> and it seems like many other people here are in the same state 13:41:54 <06pleasingfungus> but i think i'm bowing out for now 13:42:05 <05icoson> as it happens, all the info is in the irc channel topic 13:43:01 <08wormsofcan> can we put that info in either the discord channel topic or #rules-faq too 13:43:03 <05icoson> I guess the rules-faq pin here does need to be updated 13:45:16 <05icoson> (tbh I'm not sure that search at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ does work) 13:46:01 <06regret-⸸nde※> that has only very slightly over two years of logs, while the non-functional s-z.org one has the rest, and also I've been waiting for that search to actually produce a result for several minutes now 13:46:47 The search definitely hasn't been working for me when I tried it (including now) 14:00:31 <05icoson> alright, I've fixed the cao log search (it is not guaranteed to be very fast) 14:00:58 <05icoson> s-z.org I have less control over but it's easy to download those; probably we should post a tarbell somewhere since I don't think that site is ever returning 14:01:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> thank you for fixing that! 14:01:29 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...though, uh, 14:01:42 <05icoson> (tbh I didn't really expect to be running chei myself longterm, but I am) 14:01:58 <06regret-⸸nde※> my favourite devs, gâ€‹ammafunk, hâ€‹ellmonk, and pâ€‹leasingfungus 14:02:17 <05icoson> the discord bot inserts some weird character there so it doesn't ping people I think? 14:02:54 <05icoson> cao does not really like that character either 14:28:11 <05icoson> if anyone does want the s-z.org logs in an easier format, for now I have put a tarbell here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r5ce8j4t56irtuff9jpro/crawldev-logs-10-22.tar.gz?rlkey=khwa23zy82jtanco7uhqkcbe2&dl=0 14:28:18 <06pleasingfungus> thank you! 14:29:08 <05icoson> it's possible in principle to host them on cao too but my impression is that that search implementation doesn't really scale very well, and so I'd be nervous about cpu on that server 14:29:28 <05icoson> (I think it concatenates all files and uses perl to search?) 14:36:34 <06pleasingfungus> sounds plausible 14:39:07 <06pleasingfungus> in the spirit of dev discussion, here's a spell idea i had while putting my toddler to bed last night: Piraña Pool: summons a lil shallow water plus a melee water bud. Recasting wipes out older shallows. more useful in watery areas? situational? power increases pool size? 14:39:24 <06pleasingfungus> (background: was trying to figure out how to make 'swordfish' into a crawl monster) 14:41:43 <08wormsofcan> what spell level are you envisioning this 14:42:00 <08wormsofcan> seems like it'll take the role of leda's without the downside 14:42:50 <08wormsofcan> what if leda's summoned a mud shark buddy :PlogChamp: 14:43:17 <08wormsofcan> actually that does make it similar to bog as well since that one does have a damage component 14:44:17 <09hellmonk> Bog could summon bog fish 14:44:37 I would assume the pools of water would be smaller than those spells and maybe placed in a random location so you try to guide enemies towards that? 14:44:44 <09hellmonk> (also could remove the summon forest water chance of this spell happens) 14:53:13 -!- kate-- is now known as kate- 15:27:48 <09gammafunk> dang 15:27:59 <09gammafunk> I missed a big discuss 15:28:23 <09gammafunk> Not sure I have any solutions 15:34:36 <09gammafunk> Reasonable to open discord to dev discussion. My only concern is that we have a largely positive and productive tone, and I could conceive of there being problems with a few roguelikes regulars who would idly join. Meaning we might not be able to be as permissive as roguelikes discord 15:37:04 <09gammafunk> Am likewise not sure if we can easily dev shift discussions here but i can try myself 16:00:41 <06pleasingfungus> canofworms: was imagining it landing somewhere around lvl 4 to 6 or so, probably more like 4-5. 16:01:12 <06pleasingfungus> it seems a lot weaker than leda's, insofar as it'd affect the caster and wouldn't move with them? I'm not a leda's expert though 16:01:46 <09hellmonk> is the plan to make this multischool or pure summoning or what 16:01:47 <06pleasingfungus> i'd vaguely envisioned the pool being placed in something like 4-12 tiles on and near you, but i can also imagine it being placed somewhere else 16:01:56 <06pleasingfungus> wow, plans........ 16:02:32 <06pleasingfungus> think we could probably theme the substantive fish to be whatever school we wanted 16:02:40 <06pleasingfungus> if we wanted it to be multischool 16:02:48 <06pleasingfungus> ice seems vaguely natural but we do already have the incredible and wildly exciting summon ice beast 16:03:00 <09hellmonk> could just rework sib i guess 16:03:03 <06pleasingfungus> (i guess maybe we could replace that? rip elynae) 16:03:15 <09hellmonk> it got rekt by summon cap nerfs 16:04:36 <09hellmonk> this is sort of comparable to sls (gets to move in a small area instead of being fixed but ranged) and also sort of a variant of summon forest (in terms of doing terrain stuff and also scaling weirdly with an sbranch) 16:05:01 <06pleasingfungus> heh 16:05:26 <06regret-⸸nde※> the scaling meant for summon ice beast kinda hits ac very hard, since their af_cold still needs to have the base damage actually get through 16:05:27 <09hellmonk> I would say make it summon/tloc but I think it would not be ideal to have two of those at roughly the same level 16:05:31 <06regret-⸸nde※> *??ice beast hd:10 16:05:32 <04Cerebot> ice beast (Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 46-64 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 5(cold:10-29) | amphibious | Res: will(20), cold+++, poison, drown | Vul: fire | XP: 711 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 16:05:57 <06pleasingfungus> could imagine this being higher or lower level if we wanted 16:06:00 <06regret-⸸nde※> very high cold damage! but the hit of 5 has to actually work first 16:06:09 <06pleasingfungus> high level version probably needs to summon a piranha swarm 16:06:20 <06pleasingfungus> low level version is a little awkward if it's not in start book, 16:06:22 <09hellmonk> I mean you've got gateway at 7, not a lot of space for another summon/tloc spell to squeeze in 16:06:30 <06pleasingfungus> (as low level spells often are) 16:06:30 <06pleasingfungus> sure 16:06:32 <09hellmonk> prob better to envision a different school 16:06:35 <06pleasingfungus> sure 16:06:40 <09hellmonk> pure summon is fine ofc 16:06:47 <06regret-⸸nde※> give fedhas back water invo and make them plant pirhanas 16:06:49 <09hellmonk> though a little weird maybe if it places terrain 16:07:48 <09hellmonk> there is always summon lava fish and it makes lava and you do the terrain check so that it making lava is not bad somehow (not enthusiastic about that) 16:08:45 <09hellmonk> maybe it becomes summon/alch and the fish is made out of gold 16:08:46 <06pleasingfungus> wow 16:08:51 <06pleasingfungus> wait 16:08:53 <06pleasingfungus> it's a goldfish? 16:08:59 <09hellmonk> it's a big 16:09:00 <09hellmonk> gold 16:09:00 For what it's worth, I'd been thinking of lowering SIB to level 3 (and maybe reducing the high-end HD scaling on it). It feels pretty outclass in a lot of situations, and while it's still SOMEWHAT useful to ice elementalist starts, I think that's mostly because you have nothing else that fills that role (and anecdotally, a lot of players in #dcss 16:09:00 say they don't even bother to learn it on IE). The more recent summon cap reduction hit it pretty hard on the whole. 16:09:01 <09hellmonk> fish 16:09:11 <06pleasingfungus> cruel world 16:09:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> such is fate 16:09:28 <09hellmonk> turns out that the good part of sib was you could make three of them 16:09:36 <09hellmonk> and they would just solo whatever 16:09:48 <09hellmonk> I think the spell is still useful but it def got hit very hard 16:10:00 (I still want to hit Guardian Golem before freeze, and ice beast just looks SO SAD by comparison) 16:10:18 <09hellmonk> and ofc guardian golem getting turned into a consistent bomb did not help it either 16:10:47 <09hellmonk> golem to 4 ice beast to 3 maybe enough for a quick fix if you don't have time for larger plans 16:10:51 I mean, guardian golem's current explosion damage is absurd, and adjusting a few things about it is in my plans (and maybe moving it to 4) but even then 16:11:02 Like, ice beast compared to lightning spire, also? :P 16:11:19 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...I'm not sure what damage gimmick it actually does, but I do actually love an alchemy goldfish both for why it makes water without tloc and also to hit a spell school combination lost with... summon scorpions?...) 16:11:37 <06regret-⸸nde※> (also gozag vaults can have goldfish aquariums) 16:11:41 Homunculus returns! 16:11:44 In fish form 16:12:35 <09hellmonk> if this ends up happening I do suggest cutting the water from summon forest for redundancy 16:12:41 <06regret-⸸nde※> sure 16:12:47 It's scenic, though! 16:13:03 (I think you only get it 1 in 3 times. Maybe could be less frequent, if so?) 16:13:05 <09hellmonk> place a plant or a toadstool ring or sth instead 16:13:21 Toadstool rings are cute 16:13:24 <06regret-⸸nde※> jeez, summon scorpion was removed in 0.14, back in 2014 16:13:26 <09hellmonk> yeah there is some kind of frequency check (plus an additional one for deep water?) 16:14:24 <09hellmonk> my notes say 50% chance to place a pond, 66% chance to make the pond 1/3 deep water if it makes one, sometimes fails to place it if there isn't enough space 16:15:33 Okay, well that could be lowered significantly if there's another pond spell. Might still like it as a rare effect, but could have other more common decorative stuff 16:26:33 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-1343-gcd514f47d3 (34) 16:48:17 <06regret-⸸nde※> also in the spirit of more crawl dev discussion: I'm not done with the ossuaries themselves, but the weeping skull and laughing skull monsters I mentioned 10 days ago are implemented locally and I'll probably be pushing them today. ended up changing negative energy clouds entirely into doing 10% of one's max HP per turn (new name of excruciating misery, still resistible with rN), and intend to use said clouds also for Boris 16:48:18 since he's been so plain for a long while now (and because dodging ioods by running into dangerous clouds is a good dynamic). 16:54:48 <09gammafunk> I need to make an official crawl-qw channel so I can talk with myself about qw 16:59:28 <06regret-⸸nde※> I don't mostly intend to talk to myself or anything :P 16:59:57 <06regret-⸸nde※> just reporting more recently on something that got little non-tile discussion in this channel not that long ago :P 17:02:46 <09gammafunk> That wasn't in response to you! 17:02:58 <09gammafunk> Just saying in general 17:06:23 <09gammafunk> I was going to ask after reading that, actually, if they use drain for that mhp effect or if it's just applied damage. But I need to read the link 17:07:32 <09gammafunk> Oh the link describes the original design with clouds 17:08:56 <06regret-⸸nde※> they also got catoblepas / ushabti style breath that skips over the living 17:09:30 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...they're still not super scary in my regular testing here, but they definitely prevent fleeing :P) 17:09:48 <06regret-⸸nde※> (or at least heavily interrupt it) 17:10:09 <09gammafunk> Oh I see 17:10:39 <09gammafunk> You are changing how the draining cloud type works 17:11:26 This feels like it should be obvious, but for some reason I am not sure how to make the Mercury Vapours targetter let you cast it on yourself 17:12:01 Other things based on the smite targeter seem okay with it, so I think there's some argument or setting *somewhere*, but I seem to be overlooking it 17:12:16 <06regret-⸸nde※> (clouds scale badly outside of narrow windows of the game and this should be a cloud design that could work anywhere unholy enough) 17:12:47 <06regret-⸸nde※> (feel free to toss them into any ghost vaults you want, since I'm not getting around to ghost portal for quite a few months at this rate :P) 17:13:03 <09gammafunk> Does it work the same way on monsters? 17:13:22 <09gammafunk> Relevant to condenser vane 17:13:32 <06regret-⸸nde※> still works the same way on monsters 17:13:47 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...admitted in the commit I have no idea how to tweak condenser vane's formula too much >_> 17:14:19 <09gammafunk> Cool 17:14:19 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...you can LRD yourself but still can't fire p/mvapours on yourself?) 17:14:44 Yup! (I mean, I am trying to fix the latter, since there's actually a more reasonable reason to do it, but I'm not sure where the toggle for this is) 17:16:12 Pfff, nevermind 17:16:20 Okay, it's very obvious and just not in the place I was looking at all 17:32:04 03kate-02 07* 0.31-a0-1344-g841635c0e0: Mark the Arena branch as fully mapped 10(3 weeks ago, 2 files, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/841635c0e09e 17:50:03 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1344-g841635c0e0 (34) 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1345-g5278e7341f: Don't immediately affect the player by clouds from the Clouds card 10(6 hours ago, 5 files, 17+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5278e7341f07 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1346-g7abab0001e: Refactor applying Will/2 to players and monsters 10(3 hours ago, 8 files, 42+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7abab0001ece 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1347-g56cbf0ba3b: Energy Bolt -> Bolt of Devastation, now applies Will/2 (regret-index) 10(3 hours ago, 17 files, 46+ 39-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56cbf0ba3b63 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1348-g6d40cd707e: Shuffle a few Vehumet wrath spells to their correct levels 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6d40cd707edf 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1349-gc275714b29: Apply sticky flame reduction to trampling and dragging monsters 10(79 minutes ago, 8 files, 57+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c275714b2926 17:50:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1350-g85b50b08cf: Tweak Mercury Vapours in a couple of ways 10(17 minutes ago, 3 files, 18+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85b50b08cfac 17:51:56 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1351-g98b23dd7b7: Lint 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/98b23dd7b762 18:10:50 04Build failed for 08master @ 85b50b08 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7294819967 18:43:06 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.31-a0-1352-gc98d92de7d: Tweak Fugue of the Fallen description to improve clarity a little 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c98d92de7d7e 18:43:23 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1351-g98b23dd7b7 (34) 18:44:08 03David Lawrence Ramsey02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3406 * 0.31-a0-1353-g0a6a7edc33: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into alchemy-spell-spelling 10(4 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0a6a7edc3369 18:44:08 03David Lawrence Ramsey02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3406 * 0.31-a0-1354-gbffaa0916d: Fix punctuation in another new spell description. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bffaa0916dcc 18:50:41 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1352-gc98d92de7d (34) 18:55:49 <06pleasingfungus> copying a devnote from the other place ™️ archivally 18:55:56 <06pleasingfungus> > my current take is that probably the game would be better if both might and weak affected range and if (later-game?) ranged weapons were somewhat weaker, but that's a large and fiddly enough change that i don't want to do it right now. > > I also don't really want to do it later. life is hard. 18:56:23 <06pleasingfungus> also copying a note from acrobat 18:56:26 <06pleasingfungus> > In case anyone was wondering, CWZ admin, hong, is finally back. He's been going through a very difficult time with a lot of personal issues(family, health..) and a broken computer, but thankfully, he says things are somewhat better now. After being unplayable for a few days, CWZ has been revived, and updates to trunk version have resumed after a few months. I wish Hong nothing but the best in the future. 18:57:30 <06pleasingfungus> clearly just need a bot command that relays a chosen message from there to here……. 18:59:40 <06regret-⸸nde※> would be a decent stopgap measure :P 19:04:33 <05icoson> Ah good to know, hope hong is ok 19:39:15 TanisFugitVT (L19 OnSu) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'bloodspatter.cc' at line 173 failed. (where = (0,0)) (Slime:4) 19:58:51 That crash LOOKS like it's caused by a monster bleeding due to deliberate movement while it has barbs in it, but somehow that means it deliberately moved to 0,0 19:59:15 And I am not sure how this happens 20:11:34 I think the only NEW case for barbs being triggered when it used not to be is for tramplers and draggers moving themselves with their attack, but neither seems involved here 20:40:12 -!- The topic of #crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | https://github.com/crawl/crawl | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/, temporarily http://crawl.akrasiac.org/logs/cheibriados/ | People with +v have commit access, devs on bridged discord as well | General Crawl-related chat to #crawl | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please 20:40:12 -!- The topic of #crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??online for instructions, ??lg / !lg for play stats | PM Sequell for long queries | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV game replays: ??footv for instructions | #crawl-dev for dev discussion, #crawl-offtopic for offtopic 21:19:31 DoNotCum (L7 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:5) 21:21:42 <06pleasingfungus> wow 21:21:43 <06pleasingfungus> that username 21:21:55 <06pleasingfungus> i didn’t realize dcss was that kind of game… 21:22:06 <06pleasingfungus> as miyamoto would say, bad game design. 21:43:32 <09gammafunk> of course they're an elf player 21:47:08 <06pleasingfungus> !crashlog donotcum 21:47:10 <04Cerebot> 1. DoNotCum, XL7 DECj, T:5583 (milestone): https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/DoNotCum/crash-DoNotCum-20231222-041930.txt 21:48:38 <06pleasingfungus> …why is the player moving? 21:58:33 DoNotCum (L7 DECj) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2481 failed. (D:5) 22:07:19 Looking at the two crash logs, it's sort of weird that a different number of turns have passed, there's different prior messages in the log, but they crashed on the very same spot 22:07:34 Like a specific monster is coming into view that is internally broken somehow 22:07:41 And it's just asleep, right there 22:09:55 I don't suppose there's any way to just grab the last save file for them? 22:15:14 <06pleasingfungus> hmm 22:15:22 <06pleasingfungus> i can't remember if we can force a save backup for other people 22:15:27 <06pleasingfungus> could maybe ask an admin 22:15:33 <06pleasingfungus> ??cbro 22:15:34 <04Cerebot> cbr2[3/3]: You probably want {cbr2}, located at https://cbro.berotato.org/ . cbro was a server in Georgia, USA that was maintained by johnstein until late 2020, when cbr2 replaced it. Old cbro 0.16 experimental summary pages: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/experimentals/0.16/overview.html 22:15:38 <06pleasingfungus> ??cbr2 22:15:38 <04Cerebot> cbr2[1/3]: Server in Ohio, USA: cbro.berotato.org , Webtiles at: https://cbro.berotato.org/ ; ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at https://cbro.berotato.org/keys/ (no password access). Use glyph/sigil % for bots. Admins: ZureaL, advil, johnstein. 22:48:25 <09gammafunk> yeah, can't make a save backup for other users; would need an actual login to get a copy 23:15:24 Gryn (L19 BaFi) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'bloodspatter.cc' at line 173 failed. (where = (0,0)) (Shoals:4) 23:21:28 <06pleasingfungus> !crashlog Gryn 23:21:29 <04Cerebot> 2. Gryn, XL19 BaFi, T:31450 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Gryn/crash-Gryn-20231222-061455.txt 23:23:03 <06pleasingfungus> ah 23:23:49 <06pleasingfungus> cpp // Save these first because hurt() might kill the monster. hurt(monster_by_mid(barbs.source), roll_dice(2, barbs.degree * 2 + 2)); bleed_onto_floor(pos(), type, 2, false); someone forgot to do this 23:27:59 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-1353-ga852a4444a: Don't crash when barbs kill monsters 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a852a4444a49 23:31:13 04Build failed for 08master @ a852a444 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/7296960499 23:31:48 Oh, for the love of.... 23:32:22 Y'know, I didn't even notice that comment whatsoever. I just replaced external method calls with internal ones when I moved it inside Monster 23:33:41 (And while I tested it, nothing ever died during testing, so it seemed fine that I hadn't broken anything >.>) 23:34:59 Basically, I deleted all the 'mons.' in front of everything, then on a second pass saw a lone 'pos' and was like "Oh, that needs ()' 23:35:06 It did not need those 23:35:10 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-1352-gc98d92de7d (34) 23:39:31 <06pleasingfungus> joys of dev