00:33:35 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-5014-gf9597c7f93 03:23:41 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5014-gf9597c7f93 05:19:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-557-g6e16503 (34) 07:19:51 <05icoson> https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/15sr6vb/looking_for_new_mods/ 11:49:05 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 11:54:36 <06pleasingfungus> hm, channel poll: is there a design reason for berserk/frenzied monsters to continuously make shout-level noises? 12:02:52 downside for berserk? 12:03:01 <03implojin> i saw that code the other day and thought it was odd but i doubt anybody has an intuitive grasp of the noise propagation code, it probably has an impact on moths of wrath pulling threats towards the player's position? 12:03:48 <06pleasingfungus> geekosaur: monsters, not players! 12:04:05 <06pleasingfungus> yeah it likely has an impact (though i think most stuff in zot is already pretty loud) 12:04:12 <06pleasingfungus> but, i mean: should it? 12:27:19 <04dracoomega> I wasn't really aware that they even did that, tbh 12:27:34 <04dracoomega> I mean, berserk things tend to be scary enough anyway 12:27:37 <06pleasingfungus> same! i feel like maybe i knew in 2018 and then forgot 12:28:00 <04dracoomega> I am not sure how much practical difference it makes? Certainly there is loud things going on in Zot anyway. ...probably affects Spider, though? 12:28:06 <03implojin> it might be intended to setup interesting positions / dangerous situations, by luring nearby monsters towards a location where the player has just had to deal with something that berserked? 12:28:15 <04dracoomega> ...wait, do beserk spiders still 'shout'? 12:28:23 <03implojin> bears, spriggan berserker, queen bee, moth of wrath, snorg, rupert bear: icecv, D4-D8, lair, spriggan berserker: swamp, depths, queen bee: that one lair vault? moth of wrath: spider, vault 12:28:42 <06pleasingfungus> yes, at spider shout volume 12:28:58 <04dracoomega> I am not sure I even knew there were different 'shout volumes' 12:29:04 <06pleasingfungus> implojin: i would bet anything that it exists for similationism/verisimilitude 12:29:14 <03implojin> this would have been entirely opaque to the player before the noise bar and it certainly predates that 12:29:25 <04dracoomega> Really, noise is very fuzzy in a bunch of ways, and while the UI that has popped up to display it since I was last active is very nice, I think I also don't pay as much attention to it as I ought to 12:29:28 <06pleasingfungus> haha, yes, shout volumes are another crawl crime 12:29:47 <03implojin> hard agree that it feels like an ancientcrawl simulationism thing 12:29:59 <04dracoomega> I mean, my gut feeling is that it's been like this for ages and is 'fine'? 12:30:43 <04dracoomega> I was going to ask "How loudly does a skyshark yell anyway?" but certainly if you have a berserk skyshark in Lair, you already are quite interested in Not Being There already 12:31:20 <06pleasingfungus> i mean it’s fine but loke 12:31:22 <06pleasingfungus> like 12:31:27 <06pleasingfungus> you know what’s better than fine? 12:31:32 <06pleasingfungus> removed 🙂 12:31:49 <06pleasingfungus> (will do so shortly) 12:32:00 <04dracoomega> Really? 12:32:05 <06pleasingfungus> yes? 12:32:14 <04dracoomega> Mostly I'm curious what you think the advantage of doing this is 12:32:31 <06pleasingfungus> why keep it? it’s an incredibly opaque/spoilery mechanic, it’s extra code, and it brings no happiness or excitement for players 12:33:07 <04dracoomega> (Are there no messages about them shouting?) 12:33:34 <06pleasingfungus> short answer is no 12:34:11 <06pleasingfungus> long answer is, for berserk (but not frenzied!) monsters, there’s an occasional “the foo rages” message 12:34:21 <04dracoomega> Oh, the 'rages' thing is what makes noise? 12:34:22 <06pleasingfungus> but the noise triggers every turn, regardless of that. 12:34:25 <06pleasingfungus> nope 12:34:27 <04dracoomega> Oh, huh 12:34:35 <06pleasingfungus> yeah it’s big weird 12:34:45 <04dracoomega> Like, for trasparency reasons, I could see them just periodically doing the equivalent of shouting 12:34:53 <04dracoomega> Maybe even worded more clearly that it's loud 12:35:03 <04dracoomega> "[So and so] roars in fury!" 12:35:13 <06pleasingfungus> we certainly could but i don’t see any particular need 12:37:12 <04dracoomega> (index suggests that the noise actually matters a lot when it's dragons who are berserking, regarding moth of wrath threat levels. I am... a little less certain myself, but maybe reflexively wary?) 12:37:21 <05icoson> I just tested this quickly with a regular orc and am not really seeing noise? 12:37:37 <05icoson> also not getting the "rages" msg for it for some reason 12:37:40 <06pleasingfungus> someone else tested in roguelikes discord and reproduced 12:38:05 <06pleasingfungus> imo if it matters it should be made obvious 12:38:12 <06pleasingfungus> and if it doesn’t matter it shouldn’t exist 12:38:24 <05icoson> oh, does it only produce noise with that msg?? 12:38:31 <04dracoomega> I mean, I can agree with that way of putting it 12:38:46 <06pleasingfungus> my rule of thumb with removals is, if this wasn’t already in the game, would we want to add it? 12:39:52 <04dracoomega> Maybe it sounds funny from someone who rocked the boat so much back in the day (and is still working on a pile of things right now >.>) but I wonder if my default stance is that unless I have a specific reason to change something that's been a certain way for a while and may have ripple effects, I tend to side on leaving it be? But what you say also makes sense. 12:39:53 <06pleasingfungus> could add a normal or fancy shout when monsters go berserk, if we wanted, but i’m just not sure it’s a complication that enhances gameplay 12:40:32 <05icoson> ah, what I missed is that this is only when moving 12:40:42 <04dracoomega> Wait, only when moving??? 12:40:42 <06pleasingfungus> sorry yeah forgot that bit 12:40:45 <06pleasingfungus> yes 12:40:48 <04dracoomega> ???? 12:40:51 <04dracoomega> Okay, that's way more weird 12:41:02 <04dracoomega> I assumed it was just 'constantly generated noise while berserking' 12:41:09 <03implojin> good reason to toss it for inconsistency 12:41:10 <04dracoomega> Which seems a fair bit more intuitive 12:41:18 <06pleasingfungus> i think the idea is they’re like 12:41:20 <06pleasingfungus> stomping 12:41:23 <04dracoomega> Okay, if it's just when moving and not when staying still, that's really weird and I entirely support removing it 12:41:24 <06pleasingfungus> or something 12:41:43 huh. I assumed it was constant shouting 12:41:55 <06pleasingfungus> there are a few things in crawl that are load bearing and need special care, and other changes that would be a pain to undo (usually for save compat) 12:41:56 <04dracoomega> I mean, so did I 12:42:04 <06pleasingfungus> re earlier discussion of ripples 12:42:12 <06pleasingfungus> but most of crawl is pretty durable to changes 12:42:21 <06pleasingfungus> it’s a huge old ship and it doesn’t turn very fast 12:42:42 <06pleasingfungus> you can stick a ridiculous overturned frog unique on d:6 and it’s not that big a deal 12:42:50 <06pleasingfungus> overtuned* 12:42:59 <04dracoomega> Haha. That is a lot less of a systemic change than some things, you realize 😛 12:43:05 <06pleasingfungus> oh for sure 12:43:17 <05icoson> this seems removable to me 12:43:33 <03implojin> i mean the actual ripple effects of this will probably be that monster packs with spriggan berserkers, moths of wrath, and maybe bears? will be less likely to cause wandering mons to path towards the player's position? but mons will still be pathing there anyway from shouts? 12:43:42 <03implojin> seems removable 12:43:43 <06pleasingfungus> my desktop is occupado at the moment so someone can get some millikates by beating me to the punch 12:43:54 <06pleasingfungus> otherwise i’ll do it later 12:43:57 <05icoson> probably a reason noone knows about this because the noise bar is from the player's perspective 12:44:48 <05icoson> in a quick testing the noise only went into the yellow on the bar when moving next to the player 12:45:17 <05icoson> also, I would suspect (without really checking closely) that this mostly isn't audible that far outside of los anyways? 12:46:15 <06pleasingfungus> also think there’s usually enough going on when monsters are rampaging around that it’d be hard to spot the extra noise 14:19:28 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-560-g5dfe9fa82d: Don't mark monster swiftness as dispellable 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5dfe9fa82d39 14:19:28 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-561-g8b3d0925a8: Rework elliptical swiftness 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 42+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8b3d0925a845 14:26:42 <09gammafunk> These commits aren't crediting elliptic enough 14:26:58 <09gammafunk> I want him to be blamed 14:28:37 <09hellmonk> call the status belliptical 14:28:53 <09hellmonk> died to an orc warrior (doubly bellipticaled) 14:29:06 <03semi_tonal> i think only 1 out of 4 sources of monster swiftness is natural (even if it's the most common one)? gastronok, maurice and gnoll boudas cast it as a spell, and in past dispellable-ness reworks i'd deliberately tended towards making monster enchantments always dispellable unless there was a particularly good reason for them not to be 14:32:38 <03semi_tonal> since previously there was lots of inconsistency, things like frenzy weren't dispellable (it's usually "natural" from a dart, but then was very weird that discord wasn't dispellable) 14:32:47 <06pleasingfungus> i could make it a different status but i don’t want to 😦 14:32:56 <03semi_tonal> i was going to suggest that, heh 14:32:59 <06pleasingfungus> noo 14:33:10 <03semi_tonal> can see the reasons against it but i feel like it might be the way... 14:33:16 <06pleasingfungus> also it’s annoying that it’s not actually the same speed as player swiftness 14:33:43 <06pleasingfungus> anyway imo the reason not to is because you have to describe it in some obtuse way to differentiate 14:33:50 <06pleasingfungus> maybe 14:34:00 <06pleasingfungus> like the current one is ‘covering ground quickly’ 14:34:18 <03semi_tonal> there's already swift vs sprint spells, so that the monster desc doesn't say that they'll be slowed down afterwards, yeah 14:34:22 <06pleasingfungus> (also why does maurice cast swiftness???) 14:34:58 <03semi_tonal> i feel like there are probably a lot of "why does maurice" questions without good answers 14:35:37 <03semi_tonal> maybe he used to cast it to flee! 14:35:42 <03semi_tonal> although i guess that was teleport self 14:37:16 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-558-gc65fdffd30: Mostly remove obscure berserk shouting 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c65fdffd304b 14:48:41 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-558-gc65fdffd30 (34) 14:51:56 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-559-g03b8d61ab2: Fix: make frenzy references consistent 10(13 minutes ago, 31 files, 97+ 97-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/03b8d61ab241 14:52:26 <06pleasingfungus> speaking of swiftness, here's a totally undocumented thing that folks here might remember: in some circumstances, the Swift status does not affect move speed. What are those circumstances? 14:53:07 <04dracoomega> In water 14:53:19 <04dracoomega> (Maybe there's something else, but that's the most obvious) 14:53:23 <06pleasingfungus> yep 14:53:30 <06pleasingfungus> anyway that's not in the spell description or the status 14:53:40 <04dracoomega> I mean... the status gets greyed out when in water? 14:53:47 <04dracoomega> And there are messages 14:54:14 <06pleasingfungus> it's not something the player could know or reasonably anticipate before it happens 14:54:40 <04dracoomega> I mean, it should be in the description if it isn't, sure 14:54:59 <04dracoomega> Or are you thinking it just shouldn't be? 14:55:05 <06pleasingfungus> ding ding 14:55:19 <06pleasingfungus> what possible reason does it have for existing? 14:55:57 <09hellmonk> It's so you would cast the flight spell with it for more speed 14:56:09 <04dracoomega> I assume it was because you're doing controlling the air around you to lift you and make you move faster and this explicitly doesn't work when there's not air around you 14:56:26 <06pleasingfungus> is the implication that you're fully submerged? that seems wrong 14:56:32 <06pleasingfungus> (with certain niche exceptions) 14:56:43 <04dracoomega> Well, the implication is that your legs are submerged 14:57:04 <04dracoomega> Which is why you're slow in the first place there 14:57:52 <04dracoomega> And you're still using those primarily to propel yourself 14:58:23 <04dracoomega> (Legs/tail/whatever :P) 14:58:27 <06pleasingfungus> i was about to say 😛 14:58:34 <04dracoomega> "The part wot moves you" 14:58:58 <06pleasingfungus> why can't the wind just push you along? i do think "things in the water being pushed by the wind to move faster" is sort of a classic play 14:59:02 <06pleasingfungus> ⛵ etc 14:59:12 <06pleasingfungus> the wind is at your back and everything's OK 14:59:28 <04dracoomega> I am now just imagining the physics of this on a player and how it might just pitch them head-first into the water 😛 14:59:43 <06pleasingfungus> the dream 14:59:52 <04dracoomega> Like, I wonder if part of the mechanical intent also was that you couldn't just directly counter the move speed penalty with a move speed increase 15:00:20 <04dracoomega> It does contribute to water feeling a little more relevant for such characters, I think 15:00:57 <04dracoomega> (I'm not super married to it or anything, to be clear, but I do think there's some actual relevant impact there) 15:01:11 <04dracoomega> Even if it should definitely be described in the spell regardless) 15:01:34 <09gammafunk> Surprised crawl doesn't have oilslicks. Increase move speed but lower ev and accuracy 15:01:52 <03implojin> we need more terrain that does things 15:02:03 <06pleasingfungus> i wrote up a post about the problem with terrain 15:02:03 <03implojin> i'll try to get back to that branch someday 15:02:08 <06pleasingfungus> somewhere 15:02:12 <06pleasingfungus> or the problem with terrain in crawl 15:02:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-560-gd1292be0fd: Remove the Swiftness interaction with water 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d1292be0fd5c 15:02:25 <06pleasingfungus> if all crawl combat was in transporter vaults, we could have much more terrain. 15:02:50 <09gammafunk> Terrain maybe harder to design than any other thing in crawl? 15:02:51 <03implojin> could you link this? 15:02:58 <06pleasingfungus> let me find it 15:03:28 <06pleasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1141492449622118482/image.png 15:03:34 <06pleasingfungus> short post 15:03:38 <06pleasingfungus> hope u enjoyed 15:03:42 <03implojin> ty 15:03:43 <09gammafunk> Part of the problem is how random terrain placement is 15:04:09 <09hellmonk> will fix terrain problems in hellcrawl 2 15:04:12 <09hellmonk> coming soon tm 15:04:34 <09hellmonk> then i will add mega man battle network terrain to crawl (hope u like ice physics) 15:04:51 <09gammafunk> Every point you made is wrong but this space is too small to contain the reasons why 15:05:29 <06pleasingfungus> @??alligator 15:05:32 <04Cerebot> alligator (t) | Spd: 10 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 60-83 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Dam: 30, 15 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: will(40), drown | Corpse | XP: 822 | Sp: sprint [!AM, !sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 15:05:38 <03implojin> TODO: TMNT water level terrain physics 15:05:48 <06pleasingfungus> what on earth is happening with this energy set 15:05:51 <06pleasingfungus> why are alligators like this 15:05:58 <09gammafunk> Defusing bombs in the dam 15:06:25 <09gammafunk> Alligators got a lot of tweaks over the years 15:06:42 <09hellmonk> could probably cut the act energy and make their damage higher 15:07:10 <09hellmonk> or just like, make them fast 15:07:41 <06pleasingfungus> i'm already doing the second thing 15:08:11 <09hellmonk> there's like 5 special energy fields and very few monsters use more than one 15:08:16 <06pleasingfungus> yes 15:08:31 <06pleasingfungus> snapping turtles are also ridiculous in this way 15:08:41 <09hellmonk> I think the spellcast field was unused until I changed servitor/ demanded someone change servitor to use it 15:08:50 <06pleasingfungus> actually i think it might only be snapping turtles and merfolk impalers 15:08:57 <06pleasingfungus> @??merfolk impaler 15:08:58 <04Cerebot> merfolk impaler (m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%; atk: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 65-89 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 22 | weapons, items, doors, amphibious | Res: will(40), drown | Corpse | XP: 915 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 15:09:02 <09hellmonk> the merfolk one is somewhat justifiable 15:09:02 <06pleasingfungus> @??merfolk javelineer 15:09:03 <04Cerebot> merfolk javelineer (m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 61-84 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 12 | weapons, items, doors, master archer, amphibious | Res: will(60), drown | Corpse | XP: 922 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 15:09:19 <06pleasingfungus> somewhat, though i'm a bit leery 15:09:19 <09hellmonk> though honestly they could just have two attacks 15:09:45 <09hellmonk> @??snapping turtle 15:09:45 <04Cerebot> snapping turtle (t) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 47-68 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Dam: 30(reach) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: will(40), drown | Corpse | XP: 253 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 15:10:14 <09hellmonk> speed 8 because it's a turtle btw but it has to be fast acting because ???????? 15:11:04 <06pleasingfungus> great question 15:11:33 <06pleasingfungus> so here's the very funny thing 15:11:34 so it's snappy? 😛 15:11:36 <06pleasingfungus> @??alligator snapping turtle 15:11:37 <04Cerebot> alligator snapping turtle (t) | Spd: 8 (swim: 60%) | HD: 16 | HP: 120-165 | AC/EV: 19/1 | Dam: 50(reach) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: will(60), drown | Corpse | XP: 834 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 15:11:42 <09hellmonk> lol, lmao 15:11:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-561-gccde6106b6: Remove some dubious sprints 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ccde6106b64f 15:12:03 <09hellmonk> cut the act speed and compensate by giving them 1 more hd 15:12:10 <09hellmonk> balanced 15:12:15 <06pleasingfungus> 🙂 15:12:38 <09hellmonk> it's actually pretty surprising to me that nobody has used the spellcast speed thing to make some doublecasting monster 15:13:17 <06pleasingfungus> i feel like devs do not really think about fancy monster energy tricks often 15:13:20 <06pleasingfungus> which is probably for the best 15:13:55 <06pleasingfungus> also you and i are basically the only people who add new monsters since DO and r-i left 15:14:00 <06pleasingfungus> and grunt i guess 15:17:03 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-562-g758d19d7b2: Fix: keep cutting Blade's Wiz penalty (Namsan) 10(51 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/758d19d7b2b8 15:25:00 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-559-g03b8d61ab2 (34) 15:27:30 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.31-a0-563-gea3e70a90f: Tweak more early-game monster descriptions 10(33 seconds ago, 5 files, 12+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea3e70a90f55 15:29:09 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-559-g03b8d61ab2 (34) 15:35:17 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-563-gea3e70a90f (34) 15:38:48 <09gammafunk> I sort of added boulder beetles 15:38:55 <09gammafunk> I invented them 15:39:53 <06pleasingfungus> sure, that's fair 15:40:20 <09gammafunk> why add monsters when you can just add more boxes filled with existing monsters, I ask you 15:41:08 <06pleasingfungus> i respect this 15:41:12 <06pleasingfungus> design space must be explored 15:46:22 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-564-g1a6fb464ba: Remove attacks of opportunity 10(17 hours ago, 13 files, 14+ 129-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a6fb464badf 15:46:22 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-565-ge68524ca07: Add elliptic swiftness 10(17 hours ago, 12 files, 81+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e68524ca072a 15:53:44 <09gammafunk> @pleasingfungus feeling like this one is ok to try in trunk? 15:53:54 <06pleasingfungus> yes, though not quite yet 15:54:04 <06pleasingfungus> > - Decide on a duration > - Add hints mode support per old aoops > - Add a proper commit description 16:15:40 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-566-g14b729ccbc: Add a note on pursuing dur 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14b729ccbc5b 16:22:50 <03semi_tonal> late to the discussion about terrain, but i hope everyone has read this important wiki page https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:terrain_types 16:23:04 <06pleasingfungus> a classic! 16:24:00 <06pleasingfungus> my current favourite is "Time warping", because it takes something so evocative and otherworldly as "a place where TIME flows DIFFERENTLY" and turns it into something extremely boring 16:24:44 <03semi_tonal> that page and the massive spell reform page with a huge table are some of the real dokuwiki highlights for me 16:25:37 <03semi_tonal> wow i had forgotten that it was even codenamed "Immense", a thing of beauty https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:nsimmense:immense 16:25:47 <06pleasingfungus> i've posted my favourite many times (it's "Weapon Effects in .9 (Eronarn)" in https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:combat:weapon_reform) 16:26:20 <06pleasingfungus> i actually glanced through that 'immense' one the other day! i was hoping that somewhere in the huge pile of ideas in the old wiki, there'd be some good ones we could borrow, or at least sparks for good ideas 16:26:45 <06pleasingfungus> tragically... 16:27:23 <03semi_tonal> wow, good tables on this one too yeah 16:27:44 <03semi_tonal> and the family trees!!! 16:27:46 <06pleasingfungus> they simply do not make em like this anymore 16:27:48 <06pleasingfungus> yes!!!! 16:29:17 <03semi_tonal> also good to see that WJC is also fully pulled from this page 16:34:36 <06pleasingfungus> good ol "open ground attack" 16:34:56 <09gammafunk> remember the earlier iterations of WJC? 16:35:09 <09gammafunk> where weapons materialised next to you and you moved into them to wield them 16:35:36 <06pleasingfungus> i tragically missed out on that 16:35:39 <09gammafunk> not sure if PF was around as that was during his break iirc, yeah 16:35:43 <09gammafunk> but I'm sure kate remembers 16:36:06 <03semi_tonal> it sounds familiar although i'm not sure if i ever actually played it 16:36:12 <06pleasingfungus> anyway that sounds kind of sick in a video game powerup kind of way 16:36:21 <06pleasingfungus> i want to walk into the SWORD power up to get DOUBLE DAMAGE for FIVE SECONDS 16:36:28 <09gammafunk> elliptic encouraged me to consider cutting wjc but the author of the patch was around and spoke will elliptic and together they brainstormed current wjc 16:36:53 <06pleasingfungus> > Yet another thing to consider: are monsters going to use these? When players see that they have these perks, they'll expect monsters to get them too. This isn't a problem for stuff like reaching or staves blocking, but for things like axe cleave they will be hard to balance. — minmay 2011-04-17 15:32 16:37:11 <09gammafunk> I forget his nick, but we had quite excellent turnaround at implementing new designs, and once there was a solid wiki proposal hashed out, he made the update pretty fast 16:37:30 <06pleasingfungus> nice 16:37:46 <06pleasingfungus> > [per D&D]: Whenever an axe wielder kills a monster, they should get a free attack on an adjacent target. this is actually not a bad mechanic. i wonder why we don't have it somewhere 16:38:02 <03implojin> i was really impressed with how much effort the team at the time put into working with the wjc author 16:38:19 <03implojin> seem to remember the original wjc proposal being pretty disjointed 16:39:27 <09gammafunk> it was definitely a bit of being overly ambitious and not quite in the spirit of current dcss, which likes tightly designed things in terms of mechanics as well as scope that's not too broad 17:06:05 <09hellmonk> original wjc was a really cool concept that would have ended up playing very badly i think 17:08:00 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-567-g3744263039: Add a pursuit hint and disable in tutorial 10(56 seconds ago, 4 files, 14+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3744263039c9 17:08:11 <09hellmonk> >Could burn up when a fire spell crosses/lands on their tile, possibly adding extra damage or creating a weak flame cloud. 17:08:19 <09hellmonk> mega man battle network undefeated 17:09:29 <09gammafunk> it was actually on an experimental and people did play it a bunch 17:09:42 <09gammafunk> the author kept pushing a lot of changes 17:09:47 <09gammafunk> but yeah it was pretty wild 17:20:33 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-565-gd9f7f4a579: Feat: hot pursuit (elliptic) 10(18 hours ago, 15 files, 98+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9f7f4a579bb 17:34:50 <06pleasingfungus> hm 17:34:55 <06pleasingfungus> i was considering making wjc just work with rampage 17:35:00 <06pleasingfungus> but this seems fine for now 17:35:13 03Implojin02 07* 0.31-a0-564-g3b7de120b3: feat: Suppress rampage with WJC 10(26 minutes ago, 8 files, 33+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3b7de120b3c2 17:36:02 <03implojin> if you want to do that it's fine too 17:36:16 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-566-g3abf9ac5d9: Fix an ench check 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3abf9ac5d910 17:36:24 <03implojin> I've gotten so many requests for that, really it should have happened sooner 17:36:48 <06pleasingfungus> sure 17:36:50 <06pleasingfungus> fair 17:38:22 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-567-gdd26a7cc5a: Try a somewhat higher pursuit chance 10(84 seconds ago, 3 files, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dd26a7cc5a01 18:15:46 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-564-g3b7de120b3 (34) 18:25:29 <09gammafunk> @pleasingfungus > When you move away from an enemy, they have a 1/3 chance of entering hot pursuit, Looks like you in fact made it 1/10 chance? 18:29:33 <08nicolae> "Not to be confused with the similar-sounding apparel beloved of certain players, 'hot pursuit' is a new mechanic to encourage fun lines of play." 18:37:19 <06pleasingfungus> yeah 18:37:29 <06pleasingfungus> lots of number changes 18:38:18 <06pleasingfungus> nicolae: yesss? 18:38:39 <08nicolae> i was quoting it because it's funny 18:38:42 <08nicolae> emptyquote 18:38:52 <06pleasingfungus> tyty 22:57:21 03PleasingFungus02 07[swifter-than-swift] * 0.31-a0-568-g6d89223f59: Fix a chance (gammafunk) 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6d89223f5981 23:49:48 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-a0-564-g3b7de120b3 (34)