00:30:15 Stable (0.30) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30.1-0-gc7a239f8c4 01:00:33 Stable (0.30) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30.1-0-gc7a239f8c4 01:12:42 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4926-gc5d0056c4d 03:22:43 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4926-gc5d0056c4d 04:29:33 <05sastreii> Oh, before i forget: so far i’ve made the phylactery and the dragon blood. If you have specific designs in mind for the other talismans let me know, otherwise i’ll just follow my instinct (I’m open to suggestions for all the devs here, if someone has ideas, obviously) 05:20:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.31-a0-214-gb37851d (34) 06:45:15 <09gammafunk> @pleasingfungus cpp // prevent on armour (since it's swapped infrequently) and rings (since // 2 slots reduces the pressure to swap) case ARTP_FRAGILE: return item_class != OBJ_ARMOUR && (item_class != OBJ_JEWELLERY || jewellery_is_amulet(item)); Does it make much sense to allow Fragile on amulets these days now that those are slow-equipping items just 06:45:16 like armour? 06:48:42 03elliptic02 07* 0.31-a0-215-g8be760b2a8: Fix display of mud in console. 10(14 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8be760b2a849 07:05:24 <06pleasingfungus> it does not 07:06:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-215-g8be760b2a8 (34) 07:09:26 <05sastreii> progress so far. more updates soon 07:09:27 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1124703316237090826/Schermata_2023-07-01_alle_16.08.15.png 07:11:58 <09gammafunk> :PlogChamp: 07:12:04 <09gammafunk> those look dope 07:40:30 <06pleasingfungus> oooh 07:40:42 <06pleasingfungus> into it 07:40:46 <06pleasingfungus> love that dragonblood phial 07:40:54 <06pleasingfungus> snake is having a great time 07:41:11 <06pleasingfungus> can the beast talisman be, like, a wolf head 07:42:00 <06pleasingfungus> this sort of thing, but not literally the one from The Witcher 07:42:01 <06pleasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1124711510019686501/91fE4dsNCXL.png 07:42:07 <06pleasingfungus> wolf heads are great 07:47:14 <05sastreii> Will be hard to make it different from the one from the witcher but i’ll do my best😆 08:01:40 <06pleasingfungus> haha 08:01:49 <06pleasingfungus> could also do a paw, a tuft of fur, that sort of thing 08:01:52 <06pleasingfungus> something wolfy 08:01:57 <06pleasingfungus> https://twitter.com/Chrysoperla2/status/1572345354099785728/photo/1 also i forgot i found this 08:02:01 <06pleasingfungus> re storm talisman 08:02:10 <06pleasingfungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1124716583110066326/FdIXuDPWAAEiPAc.png 08:03:53 New branch created: talisman-why-not (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/talisman-why-not 08:03:53 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-215-g916a98a20d: Tweak forms 10(4 weeks ago, 103 files, 1596+ 1302-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/916a98a20d87 08:04:05 <06pleasingfungus> @gammafunk ok, you can start on qw now 08:04:39 <05sastreii> Ooh nice, i had in mind something really similar 08:04:46 <05sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1124717239854174279/IMG_1108.webp 08:04:56 New branch created: pull/3176 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 08:04:56 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 08:06:16 <06pleasingfungus> wow, i didn't know anyone else played that game, ha 08:06:23 <06pleasingfungus> (i played a ton of eternal many years ago) 08:16:50 <09hellmonk> Make it look like the 3 wolf moon tshirt 08:18:15 <06pleasingfungus> lol 08:23:13 04Build failed for 08talisman-why-not @ 916a98a2 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/5431668758 08:35:28 <09gammafunk> cool, let me know when the experimental should be made and all that (plus usual stuff about needing a discord post based on the usual template) 08:53:20 <06pleasingfungus> will be ready once i fix tests 08:53:42 <06pleasingfungus> assuming test failure is relevant, i can’t easily check atm 08:59:43 <09gammafunk> yeah it is, looks like tag_upgrade and problem with the spellbook enum 09:00:17 <09gammafunk> however other builds succeeded, so should be easy fix 09:08:26 <06pleasingfungus> ok 09:08:32 <06pleasingfungus> am in the toddler zone atm 09:08:49 <06pleasingfungus> so will take a while to get back to things 10:21:41 <05icoson> there's also a warning in random-pick.h that I think is probably just a misindentation but you may want to double check if it matches what your intent was 10:22:04 <05icoson> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blame/talisman-why-not/crawl-ref/source/random-pick.h#L82 10:22:10 <05icoson> at ^ 10:24:24 <06pleasingfungus> hm, that file shouldn’t be changed i think 10:24:29 <06pleasingfungus> looks like an oops 10:26:54 <05icoson> maybe debug code (the chance prevents a die) 10:27:00 <05icoson> *change 10:28:13 <06pleasingfungus> i was trying to debug it at some point 10:28:19 <06pleasingfungus> ran into issues w talisman gen 10:43:37 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-216-g9a4033747c: Fix indentation 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9a4033747c99 10:43:37 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-217-g26cb5e276b: Fix the build..? 10(6 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26cb5e276b9d 10:44:40 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 10:53:30 <06pleasingfungus> A major rework of transmutations is available for playtesting on CDI. This moves forms from being spells into new 'talisman' items, which can be evoked to enter a form. Many forms have also been changed or replaced. Further details in the PR description: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 . Try out some transmuters, and see how they feel! Does it feel like you usually find a talisman to switch to by the time your starting 10:53:30 form runs out of steam, but not so many talismans that you're drowning in them? Do you feel like you can switch to a weapon if you find a really sweet one without giving up on your transmuting playstyle entirely? Do some forms feel too strong, too weak, or just too confusing? Please send in your playtesting feedback - the most helpful comments are based on actual experience, not pure theorycrafting. To play, register and log in at 10:53:31 https://crawl.dcss.io/#lobby and click Reaching Rework under experimentals. You can also play on console via SSH on port 22 with user crawl and using the CAO key. The RC file used is that of your trunk RC, so use the trunk edit rc link to change your settings. All games played on CDI are not scored on CAO or Sequell. @gammafunk draft 10:55:07 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-218-g9766fe7267: Remove necromutation 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9766fe72678f 10:55:07 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 10:55:18 <06pleasingfungus> @gammafunk i do think we're ready for the experimental, don't think we have to wait for the tag upgrade issues to settle 11:05:35 <09gammafunk> cool 11:05:51 <09gammafunk> You'll just need to wait until I fully program qw to use the talismans 11:05:55 <09gammafunk> (joke) 11:06:13 <09gammafunk> gotta have the bot be the first one with a win on the experimental 11:08:28 <05icoson> this is maybe an obvious question, but did you consider goldifying these somehow even if they aren't spells? Adding 8 pseudo-evocables seems like potentially a step backwards in terms of inv pressure, even with dropping allowed 11:09:45 03Implojin02 07* 0.31-a0-216-g22e908daa7: Add ctrl+f stash search tags for some consumables 10(12 minutes ago, 3 files, 16+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22e908daa7a8 11:14:34 04Build failed for 08talisman-why-not @ 26cb5e27 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/5432306307 11:15:12 <06pleasingfungus> one could, but i’d rather allow for the possibility of artefacts 11:15:31 <06pleasingfungus> and i’m not yet convinced by the likelihood of inventory pressure 11:15:42 <06pleasingfungus> despite gammafunk’s lobbying campaign :p 11:15:57 <06pleasingfungus> we’ll see how the experimental reports 11:16:03 <03implojin> fwiw i tried playing a game earlier and i was thinking inventory pressure seems kind of bad in current trunk 11:16:51 <03implojin> at least on characters using evo, anyway 11:18:01 I wasn't saying the inventory pressure would be bad! I was just saying that it would decently often be more than 1 11:18:07 <06pleasingfungus> hm, worse than before? 11:18:24 <06pleasingfungus> i remain skeptical that it’ll be often >0 :p 11:18:29 <03implojin> my experience was that the new evokers seem kind of interesting to take, but holding them means more pressure on other slots 11:18:48 <06pleasingfungus> huh? 11:18:55 <06pleasingfungus> they replace old ones 11:19:02 <03implojin> did they? 11:19:05 <06pleasingfungus> they don’t increase the number of evokers in a game 11:19:12 <06pleasingfungus> do you mean spider sack? 11:19:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-216-g22e908daa7 (34) 11:19:36 <06pleasingfungus> or some other evokable? 11:21:16 04Build failed for 08talisman-why-not @ 9766fe72 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/5432339451 11:21:36 <06pleasingfungus> sigh 11:21:38 <03implojin> sorry, poor phrasing, i meant with the evokers rebalancing it seems like it's a good idea to keep more evokers on hand than before, sack of spiders if part of it but also the vane nerf means you're generally interested in holding more of them if they generate 11:21:53 <06pleasingfungus> holding… more..? 11:22:01 <06pleasingfungus> i don’t understand, sorry 11:22:34 <06pleasingfungus> 1) sack of spiders only appears in games in which boxes of beasts don’t; they’re in an item set 11:22:54 <03implojin> oh! 11:23:06 <06pleasingfungus> 2) are you saying the vane was so powerful that you could not bother carrying other items? 11:23:27 <03implojin> vane was very powerful yes, it being nerfed was good 11:23:46 <06pleasingfungus> like i agree that there’s probably too much inventory pressure at present, there usually is. that pr to remove silver boomerangs would be good to merge 11:23:58 <06pleasingfungus> but i’m still confused re your comments on evokers 11:24:10 <06pleasingfungus> and ‘holding more’ 11:25:58 <05icoson> I'm guessing you sometimes want to carry as many evocable types as you can, but I've lost track of how many that is given item sets 11:29:55 <03implojin> here's the morgue i was thinking of: 11:30:01 <03implojin> https://cbro.berotato.org/morgue/Implojin/Implojin.txt 11:30:40 <03implojin> maybe it's less pressure from elemental evokers, and more cumulative pressure from various consumable changes 11:30:51 <03implojin> that game was very much sitting and looking at inventory a lot 11:31:09 <03implojin> largely pressured by taking evo, i think 11:31:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-219-gfb515c16d7: Fix the build..? 10(22 seconds ago, 3 files, 11+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb515c16d726 11:31:42 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 11:31:43 <03semi_tonal> i can think of an evocable to remove! 11:31:43 <06pleasingfungus> why are you holding ?bw and ?ew 11:31:51 <06pleasingfungus> wow, kate over here playing five-dimensional chess 11:32:07 <03implojin> long time of using a randart dagger before the arc blade, even dropping those wouldn't have helped much 11:32:07 <03semi_tonal> (not that it would help with inventory pressure but xom chesspieces have had it coming for a while...) 11:32:18 <06pleasingfungus> big time yeah 11:32:42 <06pleasingfungus> anyway i agree with implojin that we should reduce inventory pressure but i don't understand what consumable changes are relevant 11:32:46 <08nicolae> On the other hand, turning into a snake... everyone gets that. That's the dream. Limbs are for dorks. Ssssss 11:32:47 <03implojin> hmmm 11:32:48 <03semi_tonal> i think throwable types and brands are probably one of the best things to actually look at for inventory pressure though, as PF mentioned 11:33:06 <03implojin> placing more consumables on rotations might help 11:33:13 <06pleasingfungus> nicolae: was channeling you a lil bit there tbqh 11:33:40 <03implojin> (i don't have great ideas for how to go about that) 11:34:02 <03implojin> silver boomerangs are an easy pick 11:34:10 <03implojin> merge some dart brands, maybe? 11:34:28 <03implojin> or apply their effects to alternate ammo types? 11:34:36 tbh I was surprised when chesspieces came back 11:35:12 <03implojin> i suppose we could do ring of enlighten 11:35:15 <03implojin> save one jewellery slot 11:35:32 <03implojin> or just cut them both and maybe up the rate of enlighten potion gen? idk 11:37:38 <06pleasingfungus> hellmo wants to cut rings of fire and ice 11:37:51 <03implojin> sure, that sounds easy enough 11:38:13 <06pleasingfungus> makes me sad but i’m a terrible romantic about these things 11:38:37 <03implojin> i mean i'm all for keeping flavour that people like but inventory tetris is not a fun part of crawl imo 11:39:50 <06pleasingfungus> sure 11:39:56 <06pleasingfungus> i just like cool rings 11:40:06 <06pleasingfungus> they’re cooler than rf and rc rings imo 11:41:32 <03implojin> unrelated note: i was thinking about replacing boots stealth ego with an ego that, instead of adding stealth, muffles noise radius 11:41:36 <03implojin> good idea / bad idea? 11:42:25 <06pleasingfungus> what impact do you see this having on play? 11:44:26 <03implojin> well, the intent was for it to support raw stealth play without relying overmuch on hexes/gods/throwing, by reducing mons noise propagation behavior 11:45:42 <03implojin> stabbing with support is already powerful and maybe it doesn't need this, but players always seem to have questions about how to make stealth work, something like this might throw them a bone and let stealth standalone slightly more in the rare game where they happen to find it 11:46:16 <03implojin> maybe it should be an unrand or something 11:50:54 <08nicolae> i've solved the inventory problem. introducing, bags of holdi-- 11:58:37 04Build failed for 08talisman-why-not @ fb515c16 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/5432494048 12:08:20 <09gammafunk> @pleasingfungus you'll be happy to know it's another tag_upgrade failure 12:09:07 <09gammafunk> Looks good. The only change I need is for you to change "Reaching Rework" in that to "Transmutations Rework". And then would you mind posting it in the discord? 12:12:12 <09gammafunk> @pleasingfungus Never mind, I edited and posted it, thanks! 12:15:26 <03implojin> cutting boomerangs of dispersal might also help with inventory pressure? it's a really good emergency brand for any char that takes throwing but the fact that it generates fairly rarely means you tend to hold onto it and that's just one slot gone 12:15:37 <03implojin> maybe dispersal should be a scroll that alternates with something 12:19:53 <03implojin> or maybe throwables need to be goldified 12:23:34 <08wormsofcan> brilliance/magic as item sets 12:24:11 <03implojin> thinking further on this i don't really think i'm in favor of gutting throwables, it's nice to have the skill somewhat reasonably differentiated 12:24:48 <03implojin> but maybe goldifying throwables and evo would be enough to get rid of inventory pressure until someone makes a hat skill or something 12:26:18 <03semi_tonal> i don't think goldifying actually fixes the issue there, just spreads it over two menus instead of one 12:59:31 <03implojin> oh, hm 12:59:47 <03implojin> i didn't realize that enlightenment only gave one turn of sinv when i added that search tag 13:00:01 <03implojin> any objection if i give enlighten 5-10 turns of randomized sinv, or something? 13:00:30 <03implojin> (the enlightenment commit sounds like you might have wanted to do something like that anyway?) 13:06:28 <03implojin> or is there still some kind of monster invis rework maybe happening and it's not worth spending any time on this 13:09:10 <06pleasingfungus> i like revelation exactly as is. i'd rather not make it more complex 13:09:19 <03implojin> ok! 13:10:06 <06pleasingfungus> re noise propagation: it could be interesting. i don't have a strong intuition about how it'd affect play, for better or worse. agreed it's easier to experiment with this sort of thing on unrands 13:10:24 <06pleasingfungus> but probably not terribly high risk to make it an ego, either 13:11:53 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-220-g2dcc952318: Don't let xom cast statue form / nmut 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2dcc952318e0 13:11:54 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 13:17:07 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-221-gb13485e9ee: Initialize default_form 10(9 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b13485e9eed3 13:17:07 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 13:18:10 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-222-gd2369954b2: Fix transmuter starting form 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d2369954b24f 13:18:10 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 13:18:48 <06pleasingfungus> ??rebuild 13:18:49 <04Cerebot> rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ https://cbro.berotato.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.kelbi.org/rebuild/ Bug gammafunk, advil, |amethyst, or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 13:18:59 <06pleasingfungus> @gammafunk does cdi rebuild automatically? 14:07:39 <06pleasingfungus> @icoson hi! non-urgent: could you please remove the 20 character minimum on tavern 2.0 posts? minimum post lengths have always been a bad idea on every single system that's implemented them 14:23:43 <05icoson> I don't mind lowering that (I've already adjusted the title minimum lower) but what is an actual use case for <20 char posts? I guess just "thanks" or something? 14:24:06 <05icoson> (i.e. I do not entirely agree that they are a bad idea...) 14:24:41 thumbs-up/down? 14:24:54 <05icoson> there's already a thumbs up feature, no need for a thumbs down feature imo 14:26:41 <06pleasingfungus> i wanted to post “this rules” on the yiuf 3d animation 14:26:59 <06pleasingfungus> sometimes you want more than just a thanks but less than a full ode 14:29:37 <05icoson> I set it down to 10 14:29:48 <05icoson> maybe could go lower 14:32:05 <06pleasingfungus> human communication is vast, rich, and multiflavored, and crude artificial bars like a character limit are a very poor match for it 14:32:21 <06pleasingfungus> also, if you have a minimum character count for a post, people will just add padding 14:32:28 <06pleasingfungus> which is much more annoying than short posts 14:32:36 <06pleasingfungus> in conclusion, the correct minimum character count for a post is 1 14:33:11 <06pleasingfungus> another use case: a new player asks "what's the maximum character level?" 15:14:48 <09gammafunk> yeah every 15 mins 15:26:05 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.31-a0-216-g22e908daa7 (34) 18:39:57 <09gammafunk> so is there currently no way to specify a comma in options that use comma as a separator? 21:39:21 03gammafunk02 07* 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf: feat: Add games.d to gitignore 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/58bb5d79cf3c 21:49:00 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf (34) 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-223-g68c6280aee: Nerf death form UC 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/68c6280aee84 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-224-gbdb512ea44: Fix missing siphon essence description 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdb512ea44bb 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-225-gfdb4bbe012: Let snakes fly 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fdb4bbe01237 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-226-g8456daa0aa: Redraw more things when training tmut 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8456daa0aac9 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-227-ga3001c4d32: Don't mark permaforms expiring 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3001c4d32c3 21:59:14 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-228-gf4dbe1ae50: Fix transform durations 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f4dbe1ae50df 21:59:14 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 22:16:58 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-229-ga881442d3c: Fix transform interrupts 10(9 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a881442d3cf2 22:16:58 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 22:26:21 03PleasingFungus02 07[talisman-why-not] * 0.31-a0-230-g2148338c87: Tone down storm form scaling a bit 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2148338c8724 22:26:21 Branch pull/3176 updated to be equal with talisman-why-not: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/3176 22:35:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf (34) 22:57:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf 23:15:22 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf (34) 23:55:42 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.31-a0-217-g58bb5d79cf