00:15:28 <Cbrotell> Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30-a0-737-gf23d94013f (34)
00:54:20 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-737-gf23d94013f
01:31:19 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4850-gd9e8576752
04:22:24 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4850-gd9e8576752
05:06:40 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.30-a0-737-gf23d940 (34)
10:52:03 <aesen> gong
10:52:03 <Sequell> GONNNNG!
10:52:20 <aesen> question
10:52:25 <perryprog> answer
10:52:29 <aesen> thank you
10:52:30 <perryprog> np
10:52:36 <perryprog> ... lol
10:52:44 <aesen> gong
10:52:44 <Sequell> GONNNNG!
10:53:22 <aesen> is it intentional that e.g. Fighter doesnt get any extra dex instead of str for choosing a short/long blade weapon
10:58:37 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> there is currently no case in which a background gets different attributes depending on weapon choice
10:58:52 <aesen> then the choice seems like a trap
10:58:58 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> why?
10:59:28 <aesen> you get a much bigger advantage for choosing a weapon based on Str scaling than Dex
10:59:31 <aesen> on e.g. Fighter
10:59:34 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> How much bigger?
10:59:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> I'm curious about what you believe the number to be.
10:59:55 <aesen> lets see
11:00:33 <aesen> Mi starts with str 20, dex 9
11:00:40 <aesen> probably fine for Mi
11:00:42 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> A human starting with a long sword has damage rating 11, vs damage rating 12 with a flail.
11:01:41 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> In general, fi starts with 4 more str than dex. Each point of an attribute (str/dex) gives a +0.025x (additive) multiplier to the base damage of the weapon.
11:03:31 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> At XL 1, if your species has a base of 10 str and 10 dex, then you'll get a 1.2x damage multiplier for str weapons and 1.1x with dex. This effect diminishes with higher levels, as you get higher stats (so the proportionate impact of those 4 stats is smaller) and as slay / additive brands enter the picture. (Those aren't affected by your attributes.)
11:03:38 <aesen> thats 1 extra damage on rapier if the 4 points went to dex
11:03:49 <aesen> on e.g. a drac
11:03:56 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> OK.
11:04:06 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> In general, ever since dex scaling was added, players have wildly overestimated its importance.
11:04:15 <aesen> 1 is huge
11:04:22 <aesen> ??almost dead
11:04:23 <Sequell> almost dead[1/3]: Still entirely capable of obliterating you.
11:04:40 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> Some 1s are huge. Most aren't.
11:04:54 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> A rat does 1 damage. 🙂
11:04:59 <aesen> nerf pls
11:05:02 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> (wait, or am I thinking of a bat?)
11:05:03 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> @??rat
11:05:06 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  rat (r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-3 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | Corpse | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal.
11:05:06 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> @??bat
11:05:06 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  bat (b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-4 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | see invisible, fly | Res: blind | Corpse | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal.
11:05:11 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> ah, flying rats
11:05:12 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> anyway
11:06:28 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> Here's another argument you could make: since fighters are the 'shield background', and shields now scale with dexterity, it makes sense for fighters to have more dex in general (regardless of weapon choice).
11:06:47 <aesen> eh that seems too strong
11:06:54 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> However, fighters are also the 'heavy armour' background - they're the only background with more str than dex, I believe.
11:06:59 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> Oh, berserkers.
11:07:07 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> And CA 😛
11:08:16 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> anyway, I don't see any reason to think that starting lbl on fighter is a 'trap' at present. It seems plausibly right for many species, eg TeFi and MfFi.
11:09:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> We could adjust starting attributes based on weapon choice as you suggest, but that would be extra complexity, would be a pain to communicate to the player in advance, and opens a slippery slope of further questions. Should DrFi start with more dex too, because they don't have armour..?
11:09:21 <aesen> rapier is strong. could be 14% stronger though with that 1 extra damage
11:10:07 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> rapier on fighter is specifically marked 'not recommended'.
11:10:17 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> @??rapier
11:10:21 <Discord|> <04C​erebot>  Base accuracy: +4  Base damage: 7  Base attack delay: 1.2 | This weapon's minimum attack delay (0.5) is reached at skill level 14. | It is particularly good for stabbing helpless or unaware enemies. | This weapon falls into the 'Short Blades' category. It is a one-handed weapon.
11:10:36 <aesen> oh lol, didnt even see that
11:10:40 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> also, it'd do about 0.7 more damage on average at XL 1, not 1 more damage.
11:10:45 <aesen> how is it even a choice then
11:11:05 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> I don't understand the question.
11:11:42 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> Character selection is, among other things, a 'difficulty' selector. We let players make choices which are 'suboptimal', e.g. picking FE on Mf.
11:12:01 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> We say, 'this is not recommended, but if you want to do it, go wild'.
11:12:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> TrHW is another good example.
11:12:40 <aesen> impeccable choice
11:12:45 <aesen> would streak 20 of them
11:12:55 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> 👍
11:13:39 <aesen> to be fair the recommended vs not recommended backgrounds dont always make sense
11:13:55 <aesen> like reaver is trash on meteoran
11:14:00 <aesen> objectively
11:15:18 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> objectively
11:15:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wow
11:15:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you crunched the numbers. you did the math
11:15:36 <aesen> yep
11:15:41 <aesen> i mean the math is simple
11:15:53 <aesen> putting a spell that gives you -Move on a species that heals on explore
11:17:30 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> pretty reductive
11:17:36 <aesen> meanwhile e.g.  conjurer is pretty simple for meteoran
11:17:56 <aesen> cast mystic blast, move to regain mp, repeat until on top of orb
11:23:29 <aesen> anyway thanks for the input
11:26:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> sure thing! thanks for talking it through 🙂
11:26:54 <aesen> gong
11:26:54 <Sequell> GONNNNG!
17:52:43 <Discord|> <06a​dvil> does g*ng have a blocklist
18:13:06 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> that would be extremely appropriate
18:13:08 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> thematically
18:40:47 <gammafunk> a blocklist for g0ng? never!
18:40:49 <gammafunk> cang
18:40:50 <Sequell> cang
18:40:53 <gammafunk> ^ ban this
18:46:24 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> does seem simpler to just ban users
18:51:54 <gammafunk> I did want to make Cerebot simply do emote rections for g0ng and I guess anything else where it passes joke messages from Sequell, since that's less annoying
18:52:10 <gammafunk> on irc we have low volume so it's probably not a concern
18:53:14 <gammafunk> Cerebot currently uses the extremely technologically advanced method of having regex matches for all the Sequell joke behaviours like g0ng that it uses in addition to the useful ones for learndb and Sequell commands
18:53:58 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> toml sequell_patterns = ['^\?\?', '(?i)^[qr]\?\?', '[^?]\?\?\??\s*$', '^\?/',                     '^[!&.=][\S]+', '(?i)^rip\b', '(?i)\bgong\b',                     '(?i)^cang$', '^(?i)You die...']  Extremely important to make sure all of them are covered
20:48:29 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: zotstairs (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/zotstairs
20:48:29 <NotCheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07[zotstairs] * 0.30-a0-719-g752c2a6004: feat: Some new Zot stairvaults 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 149+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/752c2a6004a3
20:49:33 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/2977 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2977
20:49:33 <NotCheibriados> Branch pull/2977 updated to be equal with zotstairs: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2977