00:50:28 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30-a0-696-g2367cd04db (34) 00:54:22 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-696-g2367cd04db 04:23:32 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4850-gd9e8576752 05:22:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.30-a0-696-g2367cd0 (34) 09:19:42 <03TZer0> Just threw someone out of my server by the name N-word + Darts. 09:19:52 <03TZer0> DCSS, not Discord. 09:23:00 <08nicolae> ah, i think that particular name has made an appearance before 09:28:11 <10PleasingFungus> further discussion in #admin-private if needed 11:30:38 <09gammafunk> huh 11:30:53 <09gammafunk> til from qw that s is the same as . 11:31:22 <09gammafunk> the command list mentions this, but also says Del does the same 11:32:20 <09gammafunk> on my keyboard the delete key returns unkown command 11:33:16 <09gammafunk> and interestingly the backspace key is attacking to the west 11:34:23 <09gammafunk> oh, I see. Del is referring to numpad Del, which is also numpad . 11:37:55 <09gammafunk> also just noticed that / and * now display a SHIFT/CTRL indicator in the message pane, I assume that's a somewhat recent addition, helpful 11:38:39 <09gammafunk> wasn't really aware of / at all, but * I of course knew about 11:38:47 <09gammafunk> not sure what's up with the backspace thing though 12:15:35 <10PleasingFungus> fyi, @advil , have you seen the stuff about \- (unknown items listing) no longer working? i'd be happy to try to fix it if you give me a point in the right direction 13:28:07 <08nlavsky> @PleasingFungus in case you still need a pointer re \-: check known-items.cc:102. In the switch statement - falls through to Ctrl-d, which is a key for resetting to default. 13:29:39 <08nlavsky> (it was changed in 6c2b13695a7772f9) 13:41:33 <06advil> probably the removed code there should be restored without the cases 13:43:19 <06advil> and without the resetting check 13:45:28 <10PleasingFungus> thanks! will take a look after lunch, if no one else beat me to it 🙂 13:45:32 <06advil> I just did it 13:45:34 <10PleasingFungus> wow 13:45:45 <06advil> I think I didn't see that there was a fallthrough there 13:46:25 03advil02 07* 0.30-a0-697-g50ae3c0e08: fix: restore the unknown items toggle in \ menu 10(88 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50ae3c0e086c 13:49:44 <08nlavsky> TIL that \\ does the same thing as \- 13:50:08 yep. I didn't even know about \- for that 13:51:23 <10PleasingFungus> \names 13:51:34 <10PleasingFungus> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues/2952 is an interesting pitch 13:52:01 <10PleasingFungus> essentially, "we should try to centralize dev discussion for crawl on a new, github-hosted forum" 13:52:56 <10PleasingFungus> i'm going to write them a nice note explaining why we don't want to do this. 13:54:21 <08nlavsky> It's an interesting idea, but people are still gonna discuss development in other places. So instead of N places to check where will be N+1 (the problem No 4 in their proposal) 13:54:25 <10PleasingFungus> https://xkcd.com/927/ 13:54:39 <08nlavsky> (lol) 13:57:03 <09hellmonk> The real answer is to make tavern 2 13:58:17 <09gammafunk> Do wonder how well that github discussion forum works 13:58:19 <09gammafunk> looks kind of cool 14:03:21 <10PleasingFungus> it's probably fine 14:04:17 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.30-a0-698-g96b69d01bc: Clarify hell lord unrand descriptions (powerbf, #2912) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96b69d01bc88 14:11:04 it's okay. we enabled it but it doesn't get much use 14:11:38 03kate-02 07* 0.30-a0-699-g0bb7008f9d: Clarify Octopode Beastly Appendage description (#2919) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0bb7008f9df7 14:12:21 <10PleasingFungus> oh yeah, i should replace bapp 14:13:52 <05kate> also a reasonable fix! 14:15:55 <09hellmonk> Goblin form tbh 14:16:39 <10PleasingFungus> going goblin mode in 2023 14:16:47 <10PleasingFungus> entering my goblin era. getting goblinpilled 14:18:13 <05kate> @PleasingFungus did you see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2946 ? it seems like a decent idea to me (as a disliker of there being so many xp evokers) 14:18:38 <10PleasingFungus> i talked with sdy about it on discord - it seemed reasonable. i glanced at the PR briefly and the vaults changes need to be revised 14:18:46 <10PleasingFungus> also i don't think it really needs comp 14:18:55 <10PleasingFungus> (re increasing charges) 14:19:01 <05kate> probably not, yeah, they're both very strong ones already 14:19:12 <10PleasingFungus> but the overall proposal seems good. (actually i think i proposed this specific set, so I'm biased) 14:19:28 <09hellmonk> Still vaguely interested in making xp evokers into unrands 14:19:48 <10PleasingFungus> i also want only one copy of each xp evoker per game, agree with hellmo 14:19:52 <10PleasingFungus> one copy max 14:20:02 03nlavsky02 07* 0.30-a0-700-g08127ecf53: fix: allow Enter to exit the skills menu when drinking !xp 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08127ecf534d 14:20:03 <10PleasingFungus> just such awful lootfeel to get multiples 14:21:22 <10PleasingFungus> re bapp, my standing pitch is 'effect that sets your UC base damage to [X]'. That means it naturally becomes useless once your UC skill is high enough (good for a lvl1 spell), and doesn't encourage other random characters to cast it. also removes the need for a ton of weird special cases undecided about theme. maybe you haunt yourself with a martial arts spirit (which makes their UC skill affect base damage, not yours)? that'd 14:21:23 probably be tmut/necro, though, which is awkward. open to ideas 14:21:32 <05kate> might try and take a pass at #2946 and a couple other PRs this weekend then (was also thinking of also implojin's robe unrand, hellmonk slime walls) 14:21:38 <10PleasingFungus> nice nice 14:21:47 <10PleasingFungus> lmk if i can help with anything 14:22:26 <10PleasingFungus> re unrands, two other ones that i want to look at eventually are ghost crab claws and iood bow 14:22:41 <10PleasingFungus> (re unrand PRs, that is) 14:22:49 <10PleasingFungus> both are cute ideas, no idea if they turn into something workable but i should make some time and dig into em 14:23:15 <10PleasingFungus> also by "i want to look at eventually" i mean "it'd be great if someone else looked at them wink wink". wink 14:24:04 <05kate> mmm, iood bow sounds dangerous 14:24:38 <10PleasingFungus> i like the idea of something else that shoots ioods. i guess nem orb card does this 14:24:48 <05kate> ioods are definitely very fun despite being a code nightmare though, yeah 14:24:49 <10PleasingFungus> ioods are just so very funny 14:26:16 <08nlavsky> The current name for #2920 is perfectly fine, but it feels like toga "Victory" should be called the robe of the Ascetic, because of parallels with the tourney challenge. 14:26:50 <05kate> ah i see it makes orblets of destruction, that has me potentially back on board just for being an excellent name 14:26:58 <10PleasingFungus> ooh! i hadn't seen that 14:27:13 <05kate> (and maybe low damage but rapid-fire would make it more distinct from the spell/orb card) 14:27:46 <10PleasingFungus> gamma had some concern about the idea, maybe something about you blowing yourself up by shooting the bow too fast? tbh that sounds like strict upside to me 14:28:56 <05kate> it looks like as implemented the orblets ignore each other instead of exploding 14:29:46 <05kate> messing with projectile code sounds scary but i'll add this to my list of ones to poke at if i get time! 14:34:45 03kate-02 07* 0.30-a0-701-g5e2a1faac7: Don't allow placing zigfigs on temp terrain (#2797) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e2a1faac733 14:44:52 <10PleasingFungus> this just makes me vaguely want to make these items evocable from inventory ^ 14:45:15 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.30-a0-702-gdf48620a09: Tweak hell unrand descriptions further (riverfiend) 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df48620a09ab 14:46:49 <08nlavsky> %git 3858e25e1 14:46:50 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.28-a0-365-g3858e25e18: refactor: Convert Sceptre of Asmodeus evoke to an ability (1 year, 5 months ago, 4 files, 52+ 55-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3858e25e18d0 14:48:19 <08nlavsky> re: "Why did we decide on that, again..?", ^ "allowing nice things like showing the fail rate, etc" 14:53:40 <10PleasingFungus> i guess what i'd really like for these unrands to have a design goal 14:54:28 <08nlavsky> the current behavior is consistent with things like randarts with +Blink/+Invis: in order to use such properties you need to 1) equip the item, 2) activate its power from the abilities menu 14:54:38 <10PleasingFungus> but anyway, the fail rate does not seem like a core part of the design 14:54:49 <10PleasingFungus> i guess my feeling is that these unrands could instead be consistent with the horn of geryon 14:57:36 <05kate> displaying the hp/mp costs was also a big reason to change dispater in particular, making it an xp evoker with no costs feels like it loses a lot of its theme if nothing else 14:58:12 <10PleasingFungus> sure, hp costs are fun 14:58:45 <10PleasingFungus> but any part of using these is sort of a pain, because in practice you're going to want to be wielding something else at any moment that you're not actively using the ability 14:58:49 <10PleasingFungus> so, swap city 14:59:06 <08nlavsky> the staff of Olgreb has an "evokable" ability too (in case its description needs a reword as well) 15:00:48 <10PleasingFungus> it already has a completely different phrasing 😛 +It can be activated via the 'a'bility menu to radiate toxic energy, with effectiveness depending on Evocations skill. 15:00:56 <05kate> maybe it could be one-time use and hellfire everything in LOS then break into pieces. finally, unrand consumables... 15:01:53 <09hellmonk> Make it an unrand orb 15:01:57 <09hellmonk> The orb of hellfire 15:02:22 <10PleasingFungus> sick 15:04:20 <05kate> that does sound fun, then we can even buff dispater by giving him a big demon trident or something as his actual weapon 15:05:03 <08nlavsky> Deja vu: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues/2400 15:05:13 <09hellmonk> Sceptre of Asmodeus probably in more pressing need of a rework since the effect is also not very good for something that you pick up in geh 7 15:05:13 <10PleasingFungus> heh heh heh 15:05:18 <10PleasingFungus> almost the anniversary! 15:05:44 <10PleasingFungus> ultimately neither of these are pressing because they're goofy extended unrands, so we should just rework whatever we have funny ideas for whenever we want to 15:19:50 @nlavsky: i'm absolutely not attached to the name or lore of that robe, I originally wanted to call it "silks of the victor" after the diablo item, but, alas 15:20:16 if somebody feels like bikeshedding some appropriate lore, go nuts 15:26:11 <10PleasingFungus> who is this victor, anyway? 15:26:50 tbh i kind of wanted to mix in some kind of hat of the vector as a matching set 15:27:42 hat of the vector> pointy in a specific direction? 15:28:07 <10PleasingFungus> it's certainly an interesting direction to go in 15:28:23 well i was playing with ideas like a masque of the danse that highlights a tile on a random vector and grants double damage to the next attack along that vector 15:29:59 but unfortunately, that naming wrecks the joke 15:31:53 i also have a throwable unrand dagger designed but i'm really not sure how oblique i have to be about references to hollow knight 15:33:00 shaw's needle may forever remain on the drawing board -.- 15:34:51 <10PleasingFungus> re danse masque, that seems like it breaks tab 😛 15:35:06 <10PleasingFungus> would be great for a game in which players do fewer than 10k attacks 15:35:25 is granting a bonus to not blindly tabbing really a dealbreaker for the design 15:35:34 i mean, positional magic is a thing 15:37:22 Shades of the WJC design conversation 15:37:28 <10PleasingFungus> i think it is a dealbreaker, yes 15:37:40 <08nlavsky> in theory, autofight could be changed to utilize the direction bonus 15:37:41 /shrug 15:37:46 <10PleasingFungus> crawl has literally hundreds to thousands of fights per game 15:37:54 not like there aren't dozens more ideas on the pile 15:38:04 <10PleasingFungus> 🙂 15:38:38 <08nlavsky> Tab/autofight is just a set of lua rules, so it should be possible 15:41:27 <08nlavsky> @Implojin, also, what's shaw's needle? 15:43:23 A widely beloved formicid huntress of jiyva once tailored the finest silks with 15:43:23 this needle, ere she was lost in the lands between her radiant monarchy. Daring 15:43:24 to track her verdant path, her forlorn retainers claimed to hear echoes of her 15:43:24 war cries -- the faithful among them digging hives to prepare for her prophesied 15:43:25 return, no matter if she should take an eternity and a day. 15:43:32 +7 dagger, spectral, hookshot, stealth+, *noisy 15:44:27 the idea is that it's quiverable with a beckoning effect attached when used at range 15:45:10 probably needs to have *noisy be guaranteed on a successful stab 15:45:29 gah one day I'll remember monster spell frequencies are /200 15:47:18 <08nlavsky> re shaw's needle: it sounds like a cool unrand idea! 15:50:10 <08nlavsky> "needs to have *noisy be guaranteed on a successful stab" - is it because hookshot is supposed to be silent/not wake up monsters? 15:50:33 well, if noise isn't guaranteed at some point, putting silent beckoning on a dagger becomes free chain stabs 15:50:44 similar issue to 7 league 15:51:30 <10PleasingFungus> ah, the return of throwing daggers... 15:51:43 <08nlavsky> it might need Dra/Fragile to fix apport several enemies with hookshot, switch to another dagger, stab 15:52:09 sure, makes sense 15:52:15 <10PleasingFungus> dumb question: doesn't becky wake enemies? 15:52:18 fragile is thematically appropriate anyway 15:52:24 it probably does? i haven't checked 15:52:30 <10PleasingFungus> fairly sure it does 15:52:32 <10PleasingFungus> attract doesn't 15:52:35 in my head i was assuming daggerversion didn't 15:53:20 <08wormsofcan> grappling hook unrand...???? 15:53:24 yup! 15:53:33 <10PleasingFungus> grappling hooks are great, this is well established 15:53:48 games with grappling hooks > games without grappling hooks 15:53:58 <08wormsofcan> difficult topic to grapple with 15:53:59 tell me you played botw and didn't miss the hookshot, i'll call you a liar 15:54:00 <09gammafunk> bionic commando... 15:54:04 <10PleasingFungus> the game i'm working on has grappling hooks and they're easily one of the best things in it 15:54:39 <10PleasingFungus> on the other hand, axiom verge's grappling hook was a crime against god and man 15:54:40 <10PleasingFungus> so who can say 15:54:55 <09gammafunk> did botw of have the roc's feather? 15:54:56 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, i guess i'm a little unclear on how exactly this works. it's just +Beck? 15:54:58 man axiom verge 2 was such a disappointment 15:54:59 <09gammafunk> is so, lame 15:55:05 <09gammafunk> *if so 15:55:20 <10PleasingFungus> i'm confused about what you mean by "when used at range" 15:55:25 oh, that 15:55:29 <10PleasingFungus> you can't normally use a dagger at range, so this is an ability or an evocation or..? 15:56:29 well the idea was originally for a quiverable unrand quasi-throwing-weapon of something like (returning,grappling) but it evolved from there 15:57:00 i guess this iteration is a quiverable unrand that acts as its hookshot version when quivered, acts as a dagger when used to attack 15:57:28 <10PleasingFungus> i don't know what it means to be quivered, though 15:57:38 <10PleasingFungus> being quivered isn't really a state that makes items do something different 15:57:52 sure the code probably needs to be written but that's ok 15:57:56 <10PleasingFungus> an unrand throwing weapon of grappling honestly sounds like a much more practical idea. could even be an ego! 15:58:17 <10PleasingFungus> (poor sdynet's throwing ego consolidation PR...) 16:02:19 <08nlavsky> it could be done in a way similar to Asmodeus/Olgreb/Dispater unrands, so the player could quiver the dagger's grappling ability 16:03:29 <08nlavsky> hmm, these three unrands should probably autoequip their abilities into quiver 16:03:30 at this point i'm just used to having some idea that sounds easy but conflicts with 27 underlying implicit code assumptions, i'm sure it can be massaged to work eventually 16:03:45 <08nlavsky> ... when the player wields them 16:04:27 <10PleasingFungus> hm, sounds nasty for olgreb, since you might want to be casting spells with that, right? 16:04:36 <10PleasingFungus> and again, i really don't think the other two should involve wielding at all 16:04:43 <08nlavsky> although, messing with existing quiver is kinda bad 16:04:54 <10PleasingFungus> yes 16:24:20 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.30-a0-702-gdf48620a09 (34) 17:59:10 <06advil> Quivering is really a ui layer on top of other stuff, so the question is really whether it is thrown, evoked, an ability, or… 18:06:46 <10PleasingFungus> that’s what i was trying to express earlier, yeah. 21:40:12 <09gammafunk> ....huh. If you're confused while being a terrified fungus, you can confusion-move/attack 21:40:41 <09gammafunk> powerful ambrosia tech 21:41:44 <09gammafunk> wow cool, you can also confuse-move closer to e.g. a satyr while feared 22:03:48 <10PleasingFungus> seems cool 23:56:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-702-gdf48620a09