00:32:48 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4850-gd9e8576752 03:23:24 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4850-gd9e8576752 05:07:15 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.30-a0-329-g85436e0 (34) 09:20:48 Hey all - just wanted to check in before putting in what would be my first PR 09:21:53 Small edit to crawl_sendkeys_proc() to make keycodes work. Currently they're treated as strings. Changing the lua_isstring() call to lua_type(ls, argi) == LUA_TSTRING. Maybe analagous changes to the other checks in the same if/else block 09:23:56 New to lua and open source dev so any feeback welcome. Only seen the docs/guides so far 09:27:12 <10PleasingFungus> can you talk a bit more about why you want this? 09:28:19 <10PleasingFungus> not sure i understand, sorry 09:28:42 I want to send keycodes from my RC file with crawl.sendkeys(). Cntl-F, Cntl-T. Seems like I need keycodes to do that 09:29:32 IDK if it's current but the LUA API at https://doc.dcss.io/modules/crawl.html says int keycodes are supported 09:29:54 <06advil> I think I see the issue, this code has a lua gotcha case 09:30:01 <06advil> namely isstring returns true on numbers 09:30:06 currently sendkeys(6) sends "6", instead of keycode 6 for cntl-F 09:30:11 yep exactly 09:30:45 could also fix by swapping the if/else order to check for numbers first. Idk unintended consequences of either fix though 09:30:54 <06advil> isnumber returns true on (some) strings 09:31:11 <06advil> I think what I would suggest is doing an explicit number check first and keeping isstring after that 09:31:51 <06advil> e.g. checking against LUA_TNUMBER 09:32:19 <06advil> also might be possible to make this code accept the extended keycode syntax that macro defs can take 09:33:00 as in parsing the string for \{#} ? 09:33:13 <06advil> yeah 09:33:20 <06advil> but first thing probably is to fix the bug in this code 09:33:22 I'm happy to try but seems dicey :) 09:33:59 Cool I'll put in the fix you described. Needs an issue in mantis or just the PR? 09:34:35 <06advil> just the PR, though a description of the bug in the PR is probably good 09:34:41 <06advil> (we don't really use mantis any more) 09:35:03 Awesome, thanks! 09:35:06 <06advil> that is, a bug report would be a github issue, but it doesn't need both an issue and a PR 10:08:28 <06advil> hm, is it intentional that creeping frost uses BEAM_ICE (which substantially reduces the impact of rC) as opposed to e.g. BEAM_COLD? It gets this via ZAP_FLASH_FREEZE 10:08:48 <06advil> wondering because (as someone on reddit noticed) this isn't apparent at all from the spell desc 10:09:21 <06advil> for that matter also true of rime drake's flash freeze 10:09:43 <06Ken> I put together a more detailed proposal for changing magic staves, would be interested in opinions or feedback - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qHmixzniA_VAw5kjE7yjuzcMMykzNI-pq_cSFl8FSD4/edit# 10:14:26 <10PleasingFungus> advil: no, it wasn’t intentional and i’ve vaguely considered fixing it 10:14:56 <10PleasingFungus> discovered it a few weeks (?) after they were added 10:15:26 <10PleasingFungus> ken: cool! don’t have a ton of time right now but will try to look later 10:15:29 <06advil> tech upside of a proposal like that is that it would force someone to completely rewrite stave code (ancient and weird) 😛 10:16:45 <10PleasingFungus> i have no idea if it was intentional for rime drakes. vaguely think i didn’t care much one way or another for them? 10:16:59 <10PleasingFungus> but it’s been like 8 years, w/e 10:17:12 <06advil> it looks like it's only those two cases that use that zap 10:18:01 <06advil> so a very simple tweak would be just to change the beam type 10:18:27 <06advil> it's a nerf to rime drakes but they're really impactful at a depth where there's not necessarily a lot of rC? 10:23:11 <06advil> oh, a bunch of higher end uniques cast flash freeze too 10:23:22 <06advil> seems more appropriate for antaeus 10:33:32 <06Ken> appreciate it! and no big deal if you're too busy :) 10:48:49 I wonder if it's possible to have some type of penalty (that can't be gimmicked away by unwielding and stuff) that makes other schools "worse", to compensate for stronger end game mages? 10:49:11 Something like increased fail rate for spells that aren't in the school of your stave? (I don't really like that though, just spitballing) 10:50:15 <06advil> huh also SPELL_FLASH_FREEZE (but not the zap in general) appears to tone down its damage if you are already frozen, which creeping frost doesn't 10:52:13 <06advil> and rime drakes have a breath timer 10:52:39 <06advil> so they already have some other balancing 10:53:36 <06Ken> Something like that could be pretty neat. Or a vulnerability to the opposite school where appropriate? Not sure, though. 10:54:10 <06advil> (fyi irc users won't see any discord reply indication) 10:58:34 <09bh> Traditionally all proposals should be framed as reforms to cast aspersions on crawlcode 11:04:01 <09hellmonk> staves in the shield slot tbh 11:05:04 <06advil> I've always been fond of that idea, though in the meantime someone added orbs 11:06:27 <09hellmonk> pros: eliminates staff swapping for resistances, makes a clearer tradeoff between sh defenses and spell power instead of melee damage and spell power, maybe encourages some more "hybrid" gameplay, technically counts as dual wielding 11:07:20 <06Ken> Does kind of put pure spellcaster main-hand in a weird place. I guess you'd look for a randart with a lot of +int? 11:07:28 <09hellmonk> cons: mages will just wield sky weapons 11:07:52 <06Ken> Or protection, in which case you've done this weird thing where your offhand is increasing your damage and your mainhand is mainly a protective tool. 11:07:58 <06Ken> Personally I like my proposal :D 11:09:33 <06advil> it's not inconsistent with this proposal, though the enchanting would need a different balance maybe 11:09:51 <06advil> shields already accept enchant armour (not that that is a good idea) 11:10:22 <06advil> I am not sure how much use staves really get, so it may be not a big change to the status quo for the main hand 11:11:10 <06advil> I guess one version of the off-hand staves would have them not do damage though, which is less consistent 11:11:49 <06Ken> There are also some randart staves that wouldn't balance right in the offhand. 11:11:59 <06Ken> I'm thinking of the Elemental Staff and Olgreb? 11:12:09 <06Ken> Though I guess you could just make those quarterstaves or something. 11:12:12 <06advil> those aren't really staves as implemented 11:12:21 <09hellmonk> Think the main concern with enchanting is just how you make it work with enhancer caps, the actual concept there is fine 11:12:39 <06advil> they are both OBJ_WEAPONS, WPN_STAFF 11:12:39 <09hellmonk> I think 11:13:36 <06advil> staves are their own object type, OBJ_STAVES 11:14:23 <06Ken> There any docs I can read about enhancer caps? 11:14:54 <06advil> that's part of what I was alluding to with that "tech upside" comment above, you'd essentially have to turn them into real weapons to get your proposal to work without even more pain 11:16:03 <06Ken> Hee hee. It occurs to me that 'shaving yaks' is less of a metaphor in DCSS dev than it would be elsewhere. 11:28:17 03advil02 07* 0.30-a0-330-g8f2769a82d: feat: make creeping frost damage fully resistable 10(4 minutes ago, 4 files, 23+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8f2769a82d71 11:31:01 ragingrage (L27 DjEE) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Coc:1) 11:31:30 <06advil> alright I changed it, mb they need a buff now though (though frozen bypassing rC is already not nothing) 11:53:37 <09gammafunk> I think this proposal is a bit confused about the problem it's trying to solve. It's saying that stave decisions are not terribly interesting, which I agree with, but proposes increasing enhancement via enhant weapon scrolls which would only increase the problem 11:53:55 <09gammafunk> It seems a bit more interested in what the enchantment and brand scrolls rather than what staves do 11:54:06 <09gammafunk> *brand scrolls do 11:56:26 <08nicolae> hey mage what that stave do 11:57:47 <09gammafunk> presuambly you might find an arbitrary staff and enchant it, thus making you keep it, but you'd have an enchanted weapon that requires a school you don't train, so unless that staff can actually compel you to use that other school (essentially switch schools), you're probably not going to divert a lot of skill away from your spells to use melee with the staff 12:00:23 <09gammafunk> making brand weapon change the staff into essentially another item with very little connection to what it was previously is pretty fraught as an idea. It lets you use brand weapon scrolls in some way, but not so much in the sense of "make a decent item better" and more in the sense of "make a nearly useless item usable if I roll the very small chance to get what I need" 12:04:29 <06Ken> Yeah - I'm not imagining this as a way of making melee staves more viable, exactly - just as a way of adding some more variety to the things you can do with staves while staying consistent with other weapons that're currently out there. I'm not sure I agree that changing, say, a staff of Fire to a staff of Ice is changing it to another item with little connection - it's still a spellcasting enhancement staff, just for a different element. 12:04:30 It enhances something different. But point definitely taken on the lattermost point - you've got a 1/7 chance or so to turn a staff of Nonsense into a staff of Something You Want, presuming there's one element you want above all. For me, part of what makes an item in Crawl 'interesting' is my investment in it - I like a demon whip I find, brandscroll to elec, and then enchant up more than I like one that I just find on the ground. The idea here is 12:04:30 that letting that same general flow work with magical staves might be a way to duplicate that 'interest' -- but that might be going about the problem the wrong way. 12:05:30 <06Ken> A more complex proposal might involve having an Evokable that improves with enchantment level? 12:06:08 <09gammafunk> yeah, it's a fun notion. It's compelling, the idea that you might find a staff of fire as an ice magic user, and because you found it early and maybe you found some way to make it better, that you'd e.g. end up using fire spells 12:07:30 <09gammafunk> However the thing to keep in mind about spellcasters is that they are limited by the spells they have, which is dominated by their starting spells, with what they find and what any possible spell gifting god providing increasing the possibilities gradually, but that happens as they're putting investment in skills they can actually use, tend to be skills represented in their starting book 12:07:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30-a0-330-g8f2769a82d (34) 12:08:18 <09gammafunk> so if I'm an IE and find a staff of fire, that may well do me very little good if I've found no good fire fire spells, or I have but they're too high level and I'd have to suddently train a lot of fire while not working with the skilling I need for my ice spells 12:09:01 <09gammafunk> transitions definitely happen when schools like conjurations get involved, or sometimes you have a very favorable apt in another school and you get transitional spells for that school etc 12:09:15 <09gammafunk> transitional in the sense that they're not too high level 12:09:53 <06Ken> Yeah. I'm also imagining that, say, the +5 Staff of Poison you find makes liminally transitional spells that much more appealing. 12:11:09 <06Ken> Though truthfully my mind was mostly on a fire elementalist finding a staff of fire and being able to level up with it in the way a lucky merfolk might find a nice early demon trident and keep enchanting it up. 12:15:16 <09gammafunk> oh, well, that staff of fire is just really good for that fire elementalist, like extremely good. Spellpower is pure damage, generally, but skill levels are expensive, and int levels slowly. So any item that just immediately increases spellpower (i.e. adds int or enhancer) with no investment becomes outstanding. Finding a staff of fire is like you just add a bunch of spell slaying. I guess you're trying to lower the enhancement at the 12:15:16 base level but making it better at the top end is probably not wise, unfortunately. And this doesn't really change much about decisions the FE makes about their staff of fire, it just makes number go up. Good feel to have number go up, but not really getting at the interest level of staves 12:19:37 <10PleasingFungus> eh suspect they’re fine 12:20:01 <10PleasingFungus> at advil 12:20:12 <10PleasingFungus> re frosties 12:20:21 How crazy would it be to remove enhancer staves 12:20:34 <09gammafunk> https://tenor.com/bhna0.gif 12:20:45 <09gammafunk> frosties 12:21:11 Not that I'm not necessarily a fan of that idea (though it seems possible) since I do like the idea of "magicy" weapons that do damage based on levels in evo/spell school 12:22:10 Could also make spell power bonus scale linearly with skill in evo, maybe? 12:24:30 Or have an ability to evoke the stave to gain the spell power bonus and resist, but gain a detriment in other schools for a short time 12:34:25 <09gammafunk> there are seemingly a lot of directions you could go in for making the enhancer staff decision space a bit better, and secondarily (for me) to make the player connection to them a bit better, but it's a little hard to think of viable ideas that feel natural 12:36:26 <09gammafunk> being able to enchant them or have them be artefacts makes the player more connected with them but it's hard to see how this makes changes much about how the weapon type works 12:39:20 <09gammafunk> I was thinking that maybe enchantment could have a wizardry and enhancement effect combined (for just poison magic), so that you might move to poison magic with that +5 poison staff find, but that's probably a bad idea 12:40:29 <09gammafunk> I guess it would have to work so that at +0 it had a pretty small effect and at +9 it had the current effect level, maybe only slightly higher, ditto for wizardry, but these seems like it introduces balance problems potentially 12:40:56 <08nicolae> each staff generates with two random enhanced schools and a dehanced school. +ice +summoning -air... is it worth it if you're leaning on freezing cloud... 12:40:59 <09gammafunk> not sure that the enchantment route for staves is the way to go 12:59:35 New branch created: pull/2795 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2795 12:59:35 03bfaires02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2795 * 0.30-a0-331-gd9ad50fcf9: Fix int params to crawl.sendkeys() 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9ad50fcf946 13:00:54 woot - first PR. lmk if i did anything wrong 13:24:29 <06Ken> What about staves giving a manual style prof bonus to a school? 13:25:56 <10PleasingFungus> multiplying xp gained while held? 13:26:12 <10PleasingFungus> that’s design space we’ve moved away from over time 13:26:21 <10PleasingFungus> encourages really dubious play patterns 13:26:29 <10PleasingFungus> probably 13:26:50 <10PleasingFungus> ash style skill buffs seem more plausible 13:39:01 <06Ken> Could you do some kind of inversion here? Maybe too complex, but a low-level staff does more wizardry and less enhancement, and as it gets enchanted up the wizardry element goes down / stays the same but the enhancement goes up? 13:39:59 <06Ken> I could also imagine a Staff of Wild Magic that gave a -wizardry but +spellpower that could be kinda cool. 14:09:00 maybe call it the hat of the high council 15:05:28 03advil02 07* 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110: fix: fix and generalize some webtiles templating code 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ab09dc11090 15:18:32 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110 (34) 15:24:04 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.30-a0-330-g8f2769a82d (34) 15:29:29 <09gammafunk> @advil One thing I've come to dislike about tagging commit messages, particularly for the "fix" tag, is repeating the word fix with commit titles like "fix: fix a missing variable reference" and have been using titles like "fix: a missing reference" instead. Feels like with tags you are very constrained by that 50 char goal and it's also a bit sad to see a commit title beginning with "fix: fix ..." 15:29:40 <09gammafunk> but I'm not sure if my approach makes commit titles a bit hard to read 15:30:00 <09gammafunk> for the other tags they don't really duplicate a word you're likely to already put in the commit 15:30:27 <06advil> fair 15:30:40 <06advil> guess I should have gone with "generalize and fix" 😄 15:33:27 <09gammafunk> It's probably just something I shouldn't care about 15:33:41 <06advil> no, I agree it feels annoying, I do actually try to avoid it 15:33:58 <06advil> just failed with that one 22:34:55 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110 (34) 22:56:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110 23:48:10 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110 (34) 23:54:17 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-331-g8ab09dc110