00:31:05 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4778-g1c48639af6 03:22:26 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4778-g1c48639af6 05:10:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.30-a0-123-g91d0c66 (34) 06:41:45 <06advil> !crashlog 06:41:45 <04Cerebot> 24669. phantasmist, XL22 MeAK, T:21919 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.29/phantasmist/crash-phantasmist-20220917-060336.txt 06:41:55 <06advil> !crashlog haaayden 06:41:57 <04Cerebot> 1. haaayden, XL15 GhGl, T:20984 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/haaayden/crash-haaayden-20220917-052547.txt 06:45:47 <06advil> extremely puzzling: this char encountered a glowing shapeshifter on D:5, and it really doesn't replicate in the seed (despite the level appearing to be the same as far as you can tell from the morgue): https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/btonasse/morgue-btonasse-20220917-114150.txt 06:47:03 <06advil> I even went to the point of replaying that seed up to D:5 on cxc in case there's a server-specific issue, but still nothing 06:49:30 <10PleasingFungus> no chaos clouds? 06:49:36 <06advil> ah hm 06:49:39 <06advil> that is an idea 06:49:51 <06advil> since there was a kobold demonologist 06:49:59 <10PleasingFungus> uhh 06:50:05 <06advil> that summoned a chaos spawn 06:50:09 <10PleasingFungus> so chaos spawn, yes… 06:50:22 <10PleasingFungus> that’s some spectacular luck 06:50:47 <06advil> heh yes 06:51:26 <06advil> I wonder if it would make sense to do any kind of depth check for that chaos effect, though this has got to be extraordinarily rare 06:52:02 <06advil> it produced basically max ood monsters very quickly, death drake, shadow dragon, etc (though the player actually killed the thing!) 06:54:10 Stable (0.29) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29.1-1-gd02db6906a 06:57:11 <10PleasingFungus> feels hard to justify doing anything in response to this 06:57:24 <10PleasingFungus> it’s just such a super corner case 06:57:24 <06advil> yeah 06:57:43 <09hellmonk> You could just not have "turn monster into a glowing shapeshifter" in the chaos effect pool 06:58:17 <06advil> but it's funny 06:58:38 <06advil> (I particularly like it when orc friends get it) 06:58:44 <09gammafunk> you could, but you can't stop a poly result of a monsters turning into a basic shifter 06:59:00 <09gammafunk> I guess in the case of that reddit post, we maybe think it was some kind of chaos effect that specifically got glowing? 06:59:07 <09hellmonk> It's actually extremely easy to stop that as well 06:59:14 <09gammafunk> yeah 06:59:17 <09hellmonk> by disallowing shapeshifter as a poly result 06:59:18 <09gammafunk> could go that route 06:59:24 <09gammafunk> wasn't clear how that d:5 shifter god made, and that game hadn't finished yet 06:59:27 <09gammafunk> although let me check now 06:59:31 <06advil> it's finished now 06:59:43 <09gammafunk> ah I see 06:59:45 <06advil> I've been looking through the morgue and replayed the seed, so I think the chaos cloud hypothesis is pretty certain 06:59:46 <09gammafunk> find out where it came from? 06:59:57 <09hellmonk> I don't think this is a pressing issue but it is very easy to make not happen if you don't want it to happen 07:00:04 <06advil> it's definitely not from the seed, and there was definitely a chaos spawn around right before 07:00:25 <09gammafunk> do those leave clouds just when they move? 07:00:30 <09gammafunk> or is it only upon death 07:00:34 <09hellmonk> On death iirc 07:01:04 <09gammafunk> hrm, seems fairly unlikely that the player could have killed one, made a cloud, then not have seen the chaos effect, but I guess that just has to be the reason 07:02:02 <06advil> in the morgue it appears they do see it 07:02:08 <09gammafunk> aha 07:02:08 <06advil> but didn't notice it later 07:02:27 <06advil> probably xv did show the flag and they just didn't notice for some reason? 07:02:54 <09gammafunk> I saw that their note log got "Noticed a shadow dragon" which sort of confused me 07:03:07 <09gammafunk> didn't think you'd get that if you witnessed a monster polymorph, but maybe you do 07:03:24 <06advil> ah, hm, yeah I see that too 07:04:02 <06advil> but it looks like you get "noticed" for all the ood forms it turns into 07:04:37 <06advil> some of this is pretty classic "wow this game gave you a lot of opportunities to walk away from this thing..." 07:05:37 <06advil> the death drake form killed them 2k turns before they saw the shadow dragon one too, so maybe they just forgot 07:05:42 <06advil> (?) 07:05:50 <10PleasingFungus> lol 07:05:58 <10PleasingFungus> ‘rough floor, huh?’ 07:14:43 <06advil> 9477 | D:5 | Noticed a shadow dragon 9481 | D:5 | Noticed an eleionoma 9487 | D:5 | Noticed an alligator snapping turtle 9487 | D:5 | an eleionoma changed into an alligator snapping turtle 9491 | D:5 | Noticed a stone giant 9491 | D:5 | an alligator snapping turtle changed into a stone giant 9495 | D:5 | Noticed an iron troll 9495 | D:5 | a stone giant changed into an iron troll 07:14:43 9498 | D:5 | Noticed a fire giant 9498 | D:5 | an iron troll changed into a fire giant 9499 | D:5 | Noticed an alligator snapping turtle 9499 | D:5 | a fire giant changed into an alligator snapping turtle 9503 | D:5 | Noticed an azure jelly 9503 | D:5 | an alligator snapping turtle changed into an azure jelly 9512 | D:5 | Killed an azure jelly 07:15:59 <06advil> possibly not uh optimal xl8 felid play 07:16:36 <06advil> but getting ood kills is fun I guess 07:21:37 <09gammafunk> wow was all that already in the dump? 07:21:46 <09gammafunk> really did not read that carefully enough 07:23:07 <06advil> I think their interim dump was before some of that happened? 07:23:18 <06advil> with just the "Noticed a shadow dragon" line 07:23:35 <06advil> the death drake stuff must have been in there and I just didn't read carefully, because it was a fair bit earlier 07:24:05 <06advil> they did report it was a shapeshifter shortly after posting 07:24:36 <06advil> probably those "noticed" lines should report a shapeshifter if it is known to be a shapeshifter 07:26:02 <09gammafunk> oh ok, now I don't feel so bad 07:26:12 <09gammafunk> and yeah, agree re: the noticed lines 07:35:26 <06advil> ah, interesting, I hadn't fully realized this: if you lose sight of a shifter, and it changes form out of los, then when you immediately reenter view of it your monster memory does not include the shifter info 07:37:02 <06advil> so the later notice lines there still could be clearer, but given that, the initial "Noticed a shadow dragon" msg wouldn't change 07:37:19 <06advil> and the later ones do always come with a "changed into" note as well 07:45:33 <09gammafunk> and when crawl gives you these "this is a new monster" indicators in the general case, say normally when there's no shifter involved, the "FOO comes into view" is printed according to the same rules as log notes, I assume? 07:45:54 <09gammafunk> so you can always tell (ignoring shifters) if a monsters that has come into view is a monster you've seen before or not 07:46:42 <06advil> yeah, it looks like that; it also appears there's a timing issue where MF_KNOWN_SHIFTER isn't set quite yet when the messaging/note happens on a change 07:48:58 <06advil> and possibly this flag even gets cleared on every shift, and then set later if the shift happened in view 08:09:59 03advil02 07* 0.30-a0-124-g90ed53a01c: fix: tweak shapeshifter notes 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/90ed53a01cc2 08:10:00 <06advil> that should at least read a bit clearer for cases like this one 08:17:30 <06advil> I do wonder if the mechanism of losing the known shifter flag out of los is really adding much 08:19:08 <10PleasingFungus> it seems like a good quality of life feature 08:20:23 <06advil> you mean removing the mechanism? 08:20:41 <10PleasingFungus> no 08:20:46 <10PleasingFungus> keeping it 08:22:07 <06advil> other monster enters los stuff is pretty independent of that flag, if that's what you mean? 08:22:18 <10PleasingFungus> without that, if a known shifter leaves los, you have to check each monster that enters los to see if it’s marked as a shifter. with it, you can just watch for form shifts 08:22:43 <06advil> maybe we're talking about the opposite thing?? 08:22:56 <10PleasingFungus> possible 08:23:12 <06advil> when a monster shifts out of los and reenters los, you can't know it's a shifter until it shifts again 08:23:15 <10PleasingFungus> yes 08:23:17 <10PleasingFungus> that’s good 08:23:22 <06advil> why? 08:23:23 <10PleasingFungus> for the reason i just said 08:24:03 <10PleasingFungus> otherwise, you get new information when a monster comes into los and is already marked as a shifter, meaning you have to pay special attention to every monster you see 08:24:09 <06advil> uh 08:24:13 <06advil> I'm super confused 08:24:20 <06advil> it just shows as "shadow dragon shaped shifter" in the monster list etc 08:24:24 <06advil> this is not high cognitive load? 08:24:28 <06advil> maybe I'm misunderstanding 08:24:30 <10PleasingFungus> hard to write up a good explanation on mobile 08:24:53 <10PleasingFungus> i’m personally looking at the map and not at the monster list, most of the time 08:26:21 <10PleasingFungus> it’s not awful but it does seem like a downgrade over status quo 08:27:10 <06advil> if an unmarked shifter enters los and you know there was a shifter around (esp a glowing one), you still have the same question 08:27:19 <06advil> just no way to get an answer without waiting (probably luring) 08:28:20 <10PleasingFungus> yes, not knowing seems better 08:28:24 <09hellmonk> Status quo does have the opposite problem (I know a monster that just left and reentered los is a shifter but the game pretends I don't) 08:28:30 <10PleasingFungus> mm 08:28:34 <06advil> yes, also that 08:28:52 <06advil> (which is really what ought to have been happening in this case, except it was spaced over 2k turns) 08:36:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30-a0-124-g90ed53a01c (34) 11:09:17 03advil02 07* 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be: fix: remove a spurious file (Goratrix) 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/51eefa89be14 11:17:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be (34) 12:03:15 <09gammafunk> currently splitting up the single 10k lua file of qw into multiple source files, and I have to ask 12:03:18 <09gammafunk> why does so much code exist 12:03:32 <09gammafunk> down to my last 3k lines.... 12:03:32 gammafunk <3 12:03:54 <09gammafunk> yeah gonna also make a Makefile for it instead of my home-grown shell scripts, so stay tuned 12:04:30 <09gammafunk> but it's given me a new appreciation for how deciding where to put what functions and data into what (new) files is kind of nontrivial 15:24:18 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be (34) 16:02:40 <03wheals> maybe known shifter should be one of the monster tile icons 16:02:56 <03wheals> so at least tiles players can see it by looking at the map 16:10:49 <10PleasingFungus> not a bad idea 22:34:53 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be (34) 22:56:35 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be 23:42:51 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be (34) 23:54:14 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.30-a0-125-g51eefa89be