00:31:21 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4778-g1c48639af6 03:21:43 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4778-g1c48639af6 03:50:11 -!- Discord|3 is now known as Discord| 05:06:57 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.30-a0-51-g784eafc (34) 07:46:53 New branch created: brandedqb (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/brandedqb 07:46:54 03hellmonk02 07[brandedqb] * 0.30-a0-51-ge5fa8f7b9f: feat: Allow branded quickblade generation 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5fa8f7b9f14 07:47:58 New branch created: pull/2708 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2708 07:47:58 Branch pull/2708 updated to be equal with brandedqb: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2708 07:50:05 New branch created: pull/2709 (5 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2709 07:50:05 Branch pull/2709 updated to be equal with hermitcraft: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2709 08:16:23 New branch created: montyhall (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/montyhall 08:16:24 03hellmonk02 07[montyhall] * 0.30-a0-52-g99e45dfa0f: feat: Upgrade dk_xom_monty_hall 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99e45dfa0f08 08:16:24 03hellmonk02 07[montyhall] * 0.30-a0-53-g5f799ba0b1: checkwhite 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f799ba0b180 08:17:27 New branch created: pull/2710 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2710 08:17:27 Branch pull/2710 updated to be equal with montyhall: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2710 10:02:44 <10PleasingFungus> > Conjure Blastsparks (L3 Conj/Fire/Tloc). Conjures a cloud of blastsparks on the caster’s tile, which explode when disturbed by motion or when exposed to flame. Everything in the radius is burned, and adjacent creatures are pushed away. Replaces Conjure Flame. 10:07:16 <09gammafunk> how does disturbed by motion work, exactly? 10:07:37 <09gammafunk> the player moves only? 10:08:01 <09gammafunk> and I guess how does explosed to flame work as well 10:12:13 <10PleasingFungus> player or monster moving into the tile 10:12:25 <10PleasingFungus> any fire beam hitting the tile 10:12:42 <10PleasingFungus> presumably incl throw flame passing through 10:12:54 <10PleasingFungus> the concept here is 10:13:23 <10PleasingFungus> conj flame is strong, but feels bad to players - the smoldering mechanic is unintuitive 10:13:26 <09hellmonk> ??throw flame 10:13:27 <04Cerebot> throw flame[1/1]: Level 2 fire/conjuration spell, identical (with only difference being range) to throw frost. Does 2d9 damage at max power. To-hit: 8+power/10. Removed as a player spell in 0.25. 10:13:32 <10PleasingFungus> flame wand 10:13:32 <09hellmonk> ?? 10:13:52 <09hellmonk> what about evoke reaching flame weapon through the tile 10:14:06 <10PleasingFungus> i’ve decided that doesn’t count. 10:14:13 <10PleasingFungus> because i don’t care. 10:14:25 <10PleasingFungus> someone else can make it happen if they really want. 10:15:29 <09gammafunk> so the idea is the player hurts themselves a bit with this spell but damages the mosnter and knocks it away? 10:15:34 <10PleasingFungus> well 10:15:40 <10PleasingFungus> that’s one option 10:15:42 <09gammafunk> or can they cast and move off? 10:15:46 <10PleasingFungus> yes 10:15:48 <09gammafunk> hrm 10:15:54 <09gammafunk> that is somewhat confusing, given the desc 10:16:07 <09gammafunk> I see why it needs to work that way 10:16:08 <10PleasingFungus> is it? can rephrase desc 10:16:12 <10PleasingFungus> first draft 🙂 10:16:21 <09gammafunk> it sort of seems like it implies you'd trigger it by moving off, yeah 10:16:44 <10PleasingFungus> if you cast it with 2 spaces between you and an enemy (3 spaces away), you can move off and out of blast radius before they trigger it 10:16:48 <09gammafunk> sounds like a more fun spell 10:17:21 <09gammafunk> explosion radius 1 (sorry, didn't read the details) 10:17:23 <09gammafunk> er 10:17:38 <10PleasingFungus> if you cast it with 3 spaces between, you can move back, recast, move, move, and have the monster trigger both, getting hit twice and then knocked back by the second one 10:17:43 <09gammafunk> I guess it didn't actually say 10:18:29 <09gammafunk> how does it choose the knock direction, random? 10:18:43 <10PleasingFungus> away from center 10:18:49 <09gammafunk> right but in a corridor 10:19:02 <10PleasingFungus> …i’ve been unclear 10:19:22 <10PleasingFungus> anything in the center of the blast, on the sparks, doesn’t move 10:19:26 <09gammafunk> right, I see now 10:19:26 <10PleasingFungus> only stuff adj 10:19:32 <09gammafunk> it pushes away stuff adjacent to that center 10:20:00 <10PleasingFungus> if you cast with a monster adj or only 1 space away and then move off, when it follows, you both get burned and you get knocked another space back 10:20:05 <09gammafunk> ...is this reverse gells 10:20:11 <10PleasingFungus> this is called grenade jumping 10:20:22 <09gammafunk> come on, we don't have a fully 3-d engine yet 10:20:25 <09gammafunk> you know we're only 2.5d 10:20:43 <10PleasingFungus> like all clouds, vanishes outside los and when offlevel 10:21:05 <09gammafunk> hrm 10:21:28 <09gammafunk> so you can creat a gap with this grenade jump if you use it with a monster adjacent and move back 10:21:51 <09gammafunk> cuz you get knocked one further? 10:22:20 <09gammafunk> which seems cool, just clarifying that this would be the outcome 10:23:04 <10PleasingFungus> ya 10:23:06 <09gammafunk> although perhaps this is slightly worrying in terms encouraging lots of chars to use it for this purpose (should be less a problem in 0.30 presumably though) 10:23:18 <10PleasingFungus> well 10:23:24 <10PleasingFungus> it does also explode you 10:23:32 <10PleasingFungus> and it is 3 schools 10:23:36 <09gammafunk> right but presumably with low spellpower and high level chars 10:23:39 <10PleasingFungus> still might be strong for l3 10:23:41 <09gammafunk> you aren't going to care about this 10:24:04 <10PleasingFungus> eh, at high level, is this sort of gambit that exciting? idk 10:24:12 <09gammafunk> but that supposes that greating a gap is some very useful thing, which it is probably much less so in a post-aoo-minus-random-energy world 10:24:31 <10PleasingFungus> idk if i’m reverting aoo 10:24:39 <10PleasingFungus> there’s been a burst of enthusiasm for it 10:24:45 <09gammafunk> uh oh, he read the aoo-positive reddit post! 10:24:46 <10PleasingFungus> leaving me baffled 10:24:48 <09gammafunk> lici! 10:24:48 <10PleasingFungus> lol 10:24:51 <10PleasingFungus> not just that 10:24:53 <10PleasingFungus> but yes 10:25:01 <09hellmonk> attack of poopertunity 10:26:41 <09gammafunk> I do sort of worry that gap-making would be a reason to keep this low level spell on higher level chars, but perhaps this not such a big utiilty and it's loosely connected with the idea that maybe we need more good "universal" spells 10:26:57 <09gammafunk> definitely sounds more fun than cflame 10:27:43 <09gammafunk> this is probably a spell we don't want to give to monsters, since that pushback behaviour is like a silly version of fear (and fear is already silly) 10:28:01 <09gammafunk> monster fear, that is 10:28:43 <10PleasingFungus> i think a monster version would need to look quite different 10:28:56 <10PleasingFungus> eg it could do a thorn hunter style thing where it sprays a bunch of blastsparks between you and it 10:29:16 <10PleasingFungus> (not that the thorn hunter thing works particularly well) 10:29:27 <10PleasingFungus> but this is one of those spells that expects the player to retreat, and retreating monsters are... 10:29:40 <09hellmonk> questioning if this needs to actually be a conjuration and not like fire/tloc or fire/air/tloc 10:29:43 <09gammafunk> this is rather unrelated, but on the subject of tloc type spells/effect, I made a joke about a player singularity "form" that turns the player into the singularity, and I wonder if that would work. Like some kind of jacked tree form 10:29:50 <09hellmonk> since fire is very heavily siloed into conj 10:30:51 <09gammafunk> ooh, thanks for the idea hellmonk 10:31:02 <10PleasingFungus> i want it to be 3 schools but don't care that much about which ones, other than fire/tloc 10:31:12 <10PleasingFungus> fire/air/tloc is fine 10:31:32 <09gammafunk> multi-level zot stair vault that's an "elevator" vault where you just go into a disconnected and very small room 10:31:37 <09gammafunk> and each room is filled with cobs 10:31:47 speaking of aoo, I verified empirically in a recent game that the demise of random energy leads to silly things like being tempted to keep my qblade delay at exactly 0.4 on a spriggan 10:31:55 <09gammafunk> lets you travel through like 3 levels of zot 10:32:04 clearly remove spriggans (and felids) 10:32:20 <10PleasingFungus> i'm scared to ask 10:32:25 <10PleasingFungus> what is the 0.4 delay qblade tech 10:32:39 <10PleasingFungus> is it just being able to more easily tell when monsters will get a move 10:32:58 at 0.4 you have trivial safe melee kiting without annoying 10:33:00 *annoyance 10:33:06 hit, back up, hit, back up 10:33:23 <10PleasingFungus> oh, 0.4 + 0.6 10:33:28 yes 10:33:45 I trained to 0.3 and then was annoyed by 0.3 + 0.6 being not exactly 1 10:33:48 <10PleasingFungus> my solution is remove spriggan. what do you think 10:33:59 I have greatspriggan now so all in favor of it 10:34:05 <10PleasingFungus> this is the sort of bold thinking that will bring crawl into the next generation 10:34:53 should also remove felid since lack of random energy makes it safe (but tedious) to melee kite with 0.8 move delay and 0.8 (or lower) attack delay too 10:35:09 <09hellmonk> Imo spiral staircase vault with abyssal shit. Junji Ito moment 10:35:32 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, with random energy, wouldn't kiting with spriggan at 0.3 attack delay be equally tedious 90% of the time? 10:36:08 <09gammafunk> I think he's saying it's not tedious at 0.4 but is at 0.3 10:36:08 I mean, it's far less efficient 10:36:14 <09gammafunk> because at 0.3 you have to wait a turn? 10:36:16 as well as being more tedious 10:37:23 <10PleasingFungus> sure, both with and without random energy, right? 10:37:24 and really in practice you don't usually get a qblade on D:3 on your spriggan, instead you are working out how to melee kite with 0.7 delay etc 10:37:54 <10PleasingFungus> sure, agree it's unfortunate you can actually do the math now on the 0.7 delay case 10:37:58 and it's just far easier/safer without random energy 10:38:57 there was one fun thing where I had 10 HP as a spriggan against a shadow imp and had a 1x3 pillar and had to carefully (but perfectly safely) pillar dance it for a couple hundred turns 10:39:06 and with random energy I would just have died trying to do it 10:40:12 <10PleasingFungus> ...very unclear to me that you would have 10:40:17 <10PleasingFungus> maybe i'm misunderstanding 10:40:34 well I needed to avoid line of sight 10:40:46 <09gammafunk> *??shadow imp 10:40:46 <04Cerebot> shadow imp (5) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 9-13 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 6 | demonic, doors, evil | Res: will(10), cold++, poison, miasma, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy | XP: 11 | Sp: pain (d14) [!sil] | Sz: little | Int: human. 10:40:50 <09gammafunk> pain spell 10:40:55 <10PleasingFungus> yes, i know 10:41:11 and it was a pretty small pillar and ranged AI etc 10:41:44 <10PleasingFungus> sure 10:41:53 like when it goes around once side of the 1x3 thing and you dodge around the other, you don't actually know which way it will go around to find you 10:42:37 <12ebering> whispers "spellcasts of opportunity" 10:42:43 <12ebering> ducks and runs 10:42:53 <10PleasingFungus> shadow imp has a less than 10% chance per turn of casting pain (17/200). when it does, it has to beat your MR (assume that's middlingly likely against a low level spriggan), and then it'll roll some amount of damage. with random energy, will that amount of damage be higher than your regen rate? 10:43:21 <10PleasingFungus> that is, on the turns that it gets the extra move + gets the small chance to cast + beats your MR 10:43:28 what does "with random energy," have to do with it for the last thing 10:43:29 <10PleasingFungus> i mean beats your william. whatever 10:43:31 no, you don't understand 10:43:38 the random energy isn't for the move + cast 10:43:49 it's because I literally have no idea how much energy it has or which side of the pillar it will appear on 10:44:11 and I can't instantly dodge 10:44:24 with non-random energy, things were relatively regular 10:44:48 also my regen was really slow :P 10:45:05 <10PleasingFungus> we're talking about a scenario like this? 10:45:05 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1016403610160091196/unknown.png 10:45:37 yes, except in the open, like those were the only 3 walls anywhere around 10:45:41 <10PleasingFungus> ok 10:46:27 like even without random energy I ended up giving it a couple opportunities to cast 10:46:39 <10PleasingFungus> ok 10:48:04 like this is just a random example which is on my mind because I spent like 5 minutes there 10:48:30 but in general it feels really bad to me that enemies can be predicted so much better now 10:49:20 obv random energy was quite unpopular because players don't like getting double-moved, and I don't have a great suggestion 10:51:51 <10PleasingFungus> gotcha. i still don't fully understand this specific example, but i agree that this sort of really granular tracking of non-displayed information is something we try to discourage, as with piety etc 10:51:52 <10PleasingFungus> because it sucks 10:52:34 mainly I just don't think that aoo is a replacement for it - I think something like aoo is fine (though as I've said before, I'd add some chance of the aoo taking energy from the monster and thus creating a space), but I think it's only relevant to one aspect of random energy 10:53:32 <10PleasingFungus> i sincerely wish some other dev would lift this burden from my shoulders 10:53:39 <10PleasingFungus> i am exhausted and enervated by the whole thing 10:53:44 <10PleasingFungus> i wish only to make cool spells and kill players 10:56:24 <10PleasingFungus> i am also enfeebled 10:56:34 <10PleasingFungus> just status effects goin everywhere, basically 11:10:09 <12ebering> just make cool spells 11:10:42 <12ebering> re-adding random energy but only a random chance to gain energy 11:15:16 <10PleasingFungus> ebering i want winrate to go up. 11:16:03 <10PleasingFungus> the number is too low! I want the number to be larger. 11:22:42 <12ebering> sorry I'm a winrate hawk 11:22:54 <12ebering> we've gotta raise interest rates at the bank of gozag etc etc 11:22:56 <10PleasingFungus> wow 11:23:08 <10PleasingFungus> i'm a bear, by which i mean i'm goin berserk over here 11:45:08 <09gammafunk> berserker artificer? bad meta imo 12:00:18 <08nicolae> i would accept this burden but my game design chops are not as choppy as yours 😔 12:00:47 <08nicolae> i would help how i can but i still have the transmuter challenge to finish 😰 12:01:17 <10PleasingFungus> lol 12:01:22 <10PleasingFungus> no worries 12:01:23 <10PleasingFungus> i just like complaining 12:01:28 <10PleasingFungus> in reality i'm just going to go add new spells anyway 12:01:36 <10PleasingFungus> then kate will remove old ones and everyone will be happy 13:06:27 the cycle of life 13:06:39 hellmonk is that an intentional Minecraft reference in your hermitcraft branch name 13:07:42 <09gammafunk> the good news is that nicolae also can't help with the design of this new fire spell until he's won all of FE, Cj, and Wr 13:08:17 <09gammafunk> !greaterplayer nicolae 13:08:25 <04Cerebot> Unwon backgrounds for nicolae: Abyssal Knight, Air Elementalist, Arcane Marksman, Artificer, Brigand, Chaos Knight, Delver, Enchanter, Fighter, Fire Elementalist, Gladiator, Hedge Wizard, Hunter, Ice Elementalist, Monk, Necromancer, Summoner, Transmuter, Venom Mage, Wanderer, Warper 13:10:20 <10PleasingFungus> one down! 13:11:08 <09gammafunk> I'm also forbidden to help withe design of trog and berserk 13:11:18 fourba (L16 GrBe) ERROR: range check error (100 / 16) (D:15) 13:12:43 !crashlog 13:12:44 24636. fourba, XL16 GrBe, T:30068 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/fourba/crash-fourba-20220905-201117.txt 13:14:53 !lg * gid=FishServ:cpo:20150924090052S -log 13:14:54 1. FishServ, XL27 DsHu, T:73454: https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/FishServ/morgue-FishServ-20151101-120735.txt 13:15:37 !lg * gid=FishServ:cpo:20150924090052S x=sc 13:15:38 1. [sc=0] FishServ the Slayer (L27 DsHu of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb on 2015-11-01 12:07:35, with 0 points after 73454 turns and 8:12:22. 13:15:47 anyone know what happened to the score there? 13:15:57 !lg * won sc=0 13:16:02 3. FishServ the Slayer (L27 DsHu of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb on 2015-11-01 12:07:35, with 0 points after 73454 turns and 8:12:22. 13:16:03 there's a few of these 14:08:42 vaguely wondering whether it might work to randomize enemy energy only on turns in which you stepped away from them 14:11:00 just as a way to add some randomness without letting that ogre that is 2 squares away from you get a move+attack turn while you are casting a spell at something else, etc 14:12:31 though I guess it might be tricky to do this without allowing double-spell turns, hm 14:12:54 (I was thinking you could just go and increment/decrement monster energy when you step) 14:33:40 <10PleasingFungus> how do we define "step away from"? 14:33:54 <10PleasingFungus> assuming you don't just mean adjacency 14:55:27 I'd assume in the same way that aoops define it 15:03:45 <10PleasingFungus> i wouldn't 15:04:04 <10PleasingFungus> since elliptic's been talking about scenarios where you're at some distance from the monster - eg lich/orc priest at edge of LOS 15:04:09 <10PleasingFungus> wonder if we mean 'grid distance increasing' 15:22:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.30-a0-52-g86a8295270: Maybe fix the famous serpent's lash mimic bug 10(57 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86a829527096 15:23:35 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.30-a0-51-g784eafce7f (34) 15:34:52 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.30-a0-52-g86a8295270 (34) 15:44:46 yeah, I meant grid distance increasing (and monster was in los of you before the move) 17:00:44 New branch created: too-late-to-rate (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/too-late-to-rate 17:00:44 03PleasingFungus02 07[too-late-to-rate] * 0.30-a0-53-g24e16457c5: Add UC damage ratings in the @ UI 10(72 seconds ago, 6 files, 80+ 39-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24e16457c599 17:18:35 New branch created: lasses-of-manassas (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/lasses-of-manassas 17:18:35 03PleasingFungus02 07[lasses-of-manassas] * 0.30-a0-53-gbbeab6cceb: Readjust Manifold Assault 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 9+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbeab6cceba3 17:44:58 <10PleasingFungus> oh lol 17:45:08 <10PleasingFungus> good trivia: conjure flame has a separate cast & effect noise 17:45:11 <10PleasingFungus> (3 and 2 respectively) 17:45:17 <10PleasingFungus> assume this dates to when it was targeted 🙂 22:05:34 hm, got a lua error in wizlab_borgnjor 22:05:44 You destroy the halazid warlock! 22:05:44 notify_dgn_event: Lua error: [string "global_prelude"]:339: attempt to index 22:05:44 local 'mon' (a nil value) 23:15:09 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.30-a0-52-g86a8295270 (34)