00:30:59 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4664-g6ac40a12b4 03:22:37 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4664-g6ac40a12b4 05:06:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-393-g47a863c (34) 05:10:24 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 12:18:05 <09g​ammafunk> @PleasingFungus re: moving troves earlier, do you think the ideal target for them is, say, mid game, possibly allowing a range from earlyish to midgame? As opposed to what they are now, which is quite often only useable late, in terms of having the cost 12:18:05 <09g​ammafunk> wondering if it works to scale the cost based on depth 12:22:11 <10P​leasingFungus> unsure, but that range sounds good 12:22:42 <10P​leasingFungus> imagining d:7-15, lair, orc, maybe 12:24:43 <09g​ammafunk> maybe we need to take inspiration from cogmind's new dsfs. Enter the trove on d:8 and find great loot, but you maybe exit the level into a garrison (orc:2 vault) 12:26:01 <09g​ammafunk> having achievable costs for somewhat early seems somewhat challenging, but I guess mostly it's just the work of going through all costs and finding lower alternatives. I wonder if troves need to "time out" in some way for this to work 12:26:29 <09g​ammafunk> vaguely suggests their being a timed portal 12:27:24 <09g​ammafunk> but that makes achieving some costs infeasable, if you'd have to buy something from a shop to enter the trove 12:39:43 <05k​ate> i don't know what the cogmind equivalent is like but that seems sort of like a variation on what gauntlets already are, i guess? can easily imagine a map that gives you more of the loot upfront (or biases it towards consumables since those are likely to be immediately useful) in return for a harder minotaur fight, for example 12:41:55 <09g​ammafunk> haha, I was really joking with that. Yeah, gauntlet is vaguely analogous to the concept. DSFs have you fight some somewhat hard foes, rewarding you with some quite high quality items (with a time crunch for successfully collecting it, not relevant to dcss probably) and then puts you either on the "next" level or in a somewhat dangerous branch 12:42:10 <09g​ammafunk> I wasn't seriously proposing making a trove involve combat though, probably that's well covered by existing portals? 12:42:31 <09g​ammafunk> (or was dumping you in orc:2 a serious idea, even if it's fun) 12:44:08 <05k​ate> ah i was interpreting it more as like, "a hard fight" in a general sense rather than into orc:2 specifically, heh 12:44:08 <09g​ammafunk> I mean, if people do like the idea of troves involving some kind of risk, that could be interesting, but does feel like something that's probably well covered by existing portals 12:44:14 <05k​ate> yeah, i just liked it as a potential gauntlet variation with a different balance of threat/loot placement 12:45:19 <09g​ammafunk> enter, get some loot, fight exactly one hard fight? 12:45:42 sounds like bailey in reverse? 12:46:41 <09g​ammafunk> yeah, I guess the innovative part is reversing the order that things happen, although it seems to me that with randomized loot, deciding whether to enter would involve knowing that you can already win the hard fight 13:10:23 Wonder if trove is moved earlier if there should be a mega-trove that you find much further late game (e.g., in the hells, pan, or other very late game areas) which has very strong loot 13:11:18 Because one exciting aspect of troves is that (sometimes) they have loads of Really Dope Crap and it feels like a reward for getting that far in the game (for the cases where you are > 3 runes in and were only just then able to open the trove) 13:13:29 <10P​leasingFungus> that's why you raid cerebov's house 13:13:46 true, they always have dope stuff 22:31:48 -!- mhcerri7 is now known as mhcerri