00:21:27 <jfcaron> I only have one "not yet recognized" scroll (amnesia) but in a shop it's still showing up with random text.
00:21:43 <jfcaron> I thought when only one was left it auto-IDed by elimination.
00:25:18 <jfcaron> As soon as I buy it it becomes IDed.
00:42:02 <Discord|> <12e​bering> You need to actually see the item outside of a shop to trigger the auto id
01:31:15 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4616-ga6c816d1e0
04:23:34 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4616-ga6c816d1e0
04:38:26 -!- voker57_ is now known as voker57
04:54:29 <perryprog> ebering: the monster seems to be guessing where you are with perfect accuracy, though
04:57:01 <perryprog> When moving to follow you, not when attacking you, I assume*
05:17:09 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur
09:29:35 <sempervivum> Change my view: long blade stabs shouldn't cut off hydra heads, lore-wise
09:34:47 <geekosaur> I think "stab" is lost by that point? that is, it may be good lore but rather hard to implement in the code
10:02:12 <Pinkbeast> OOI what makes you think that?
10:02:36 <geekosaur> which of us?
10:04:11 <Pinkbeast> You.
10:06:37 <geekosaur> just that I've seen too much crawlcode. I imagine implementation which affects to-hit and adjusts the damage roll, but properly distinguishing stabs from slices would require an AF_*
10:09:00 <Discord|> <03w​heals> nah, I'm pretty sure the stab_type is a field in the melee attack struct
10:09:00 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> "stab", in context of attacks on unaware/defenseless enemies, is a code term
10:09:21 <Discord|> <03w​heals> that said i don't think we'll change the behavior for that lore
10:09:25 <Pinkbeast> geekosaur: So, complete guesswork. (AFAICT it would be pretty straightforward).
10:09:27 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> if you stab with an axe - which works just as well as long blade "stabbing" - you should not be taken to be actually stabbing with a pointy bit
10:09:31 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i don't think it's even good lore
10:09:45 <geekosaur> well, I did say "I think"
10:09:47 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> if you "stab" with a long blade, you should be taken to be doing a vicious slash on an unaware enemy
10:09:54 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> a coup de grace type move
10:09:54 <geekosaur> I'm not actually keen on digging that deep into the code
10:10:22 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> just as if you "stab" with a battleaxe or a great mace or what have you
10:11:11 <Pinkbeast> geekosaur: Right. What I'm getting it is that wild guesswork doesn't actually provide very much useful information..
10:11:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wild guesswork rules
10:12:18 -!- tiobot is now known as Guest8539
10:23:57 <sempervivum> i was just saying, if you've caught the hydra completely off guard and ripped it apart like a ripe choko or whatever, i feel like you should be competent enough to point your blade in a direction that doesn't also cut a head off
10:27:22 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> at that rate, you might as well say that you should be able to do the same while they are alert - just chop at the body and legs
10:29:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> or that skill at swordsmanship should play into things, or that the # of heads should affect the rate of them getting in the way, etc
10:29:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> hydras are a silly mechanic regardless, but I don't see any particular reason to make them more complex
10:41:22 <Rosstin> Will this work? I'll find out regardless I suppose
10:41:25 <Rosstin> Tourist guides say that travelers simply must visit [@_random_dungeon_location_@|@_random_hell_branch_@] when traveling through these lands.
10:43:28 <Rosstin> Hydras are silly but still very fun, to me at least. Have you played Hydra Slayer?
11:27:00 <Discord|> <12e​bering> Rosstin: if _random_dungeonlocation and _random_hell_branch are keywords in the database then they will expand correctly
11:27:29 <Discord|> <12e​bering> so it should work
11:27:43 <Discord|> <12e​bering> good news: job interview next week!
11:27:48 <Discord|> <12e​bering> bad news: job interview next week!
11:27:57 <Discord|> <12e​bering> probably won't be looking at pf's damage branch this weekend etc. etc.
11:45:16 <Rosstin> What job are you interviewing for Ebering?
11:45:16 <Rosstin> (Every background starts with at least one piece of gold, right? Or is there a monk or something that starts with none?)
11:47:56 <Discord|> <12e​bering> no background starts with gold in crawl
11:48:14 <geekosaur> that's what I thought
11:48:25 <geekosaur> only possibility that seemed to make any sense was Wn
11:48:30 <Rosstin> Ah maybe that was removed around 0.14 or something
11:49:14 <phoneCebolla> .14 :O
11:49:21 <geekosaur> I don't recallany background ever starting with gold
11:49:27 <phoneCebolla> are you back from the dead friendy?
11:49:30 <geekosaur> and I've been playing since 4.0b26
11:49:56 <phoneCebolla> wowsers
11:50:11 <Rosstin> "Prior to 0.14, fighters did not start with a potion of might and most starting weapons were of a lower tier: short sword instead of cutlass, mace instead of flail, hand axe instead of war axe, and falchion instead of long sword. They also started with 20 gold."
11:52:07 <Discord|> <03w​heals> %git c9b3623f6ee9
11:52:07 <geekosaur> huh
11:52:07 <Discord|> <03w​heals> !git c9b3623f6ee9
11:52:07 <Discord|> <03w​heals> rip
11:52:07 <Rosstin> I've been playing off and on since about that long, but it all gets confused and blurred together heh heh.
11:52:07 <Discord|> <03w​heals> the funny thing this was also when gold was in score
11:52:07 <geekosaur> someday maybe I'll look at rewriting that to not download the wholerepo. seems like it should be able to get most of what it needs from an ordinary fetch
11:52:07 <phoneCebolla> do monks get a discount on gozag joins
11:52:07 <Rosstin> I think so yeah
11:52:07 <Discord|> <12e​bering> free
11:52:07 <geekosaur> yeh, free
11:52:08 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> kilobyte * 0.14-a0-450-gc9b3623: Nerf quitrobin by removing starting gold. (8 years ago, 1 file, 0+ 26-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9b3623f6ee9
11:52:08 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> kilobyte * 0.14-a0-450-gc9b3623: Nerf quitrobin by removing starting gold. (8 years ago, 1 file, 0+ 26-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9b3623f6ee9
11:53:57 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wow, healer got $100
11:54:01 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i wonder why
11:54:06 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> is this balance…?!
11:54:32 <Rosstin> Yes
11:54:44 <Rosstin> It was intended as balance
11:54:45 <phoneCebolla> healers also start with a buncha money in nethack
11:55:24 <Rosstin> Obviously not great balance, although I suppose it was enough to buy a potion or something if you found a particular early shop
11:55:34 <phoneCebolla> it inspires people to play badly (protection racket), ensuring that healer winrate stays low
11:55:49 <Rosstin> I had the most insane protection racket strategy
11:56:19 <Rosstin> It involved transforming into a female grey dragon, laying a bunch of eggs, raising them into adults, getting them to devaur the dwarven shopkeepers, and using the resulting money to buy protection
11:56:38 <Rosstin> Worked really well
11:56:56 <phoneCebolla> ... how often did you manage to pull that off. were you scumming for GDSM wishes?
11:57:03 <Rosstin> Pretty often?
11:57:05 <phoneCebolla> it takes soooo loooong to raise a dragon, also
11:59:00 <Rosstin> They don't need to be adults
11:59:00 <Rosstin> Even a young one can eat a shopkeeper
11:59:00 <Rosstin> Basically you just play as normal
11:59:00 <Rosstin> Try to identify polymorph control
11:59:00 <Rosstin> Try to find a polymorph tile on the way to the bottom of Dwarf
11:59:00 <Rosstin> If you do, lay those eggs and raise those dragons
11:59:00 <Rosstin> Also, incubus/succubus dancing to max your level, after you hit around level 10-14
11:59:00 <Rosstin> I've never gotten above level 14 with normal XP
11:59:00 <Rosstin> The requirements are absurd
11:59:08 <Rosstin> I've never done jelly farming, though. Now THAT'S tedious.
12:23:04 <Rosstin> Running "python3 -m pip install pyyaml" seems like it may have solved my issue with yaml dependency on mac. Although I don't know enough about why that fixed it to contribute to the INSTALL.md
12:23:14 <Pinkbeast> It seems like it might be easier just to steal all the shoo
12:23:28 <Pinkbeast> p's money with a dog than this elaborate dragon scheme
12:23:52 <Pinkbeast> Rosstin: It's possible the dependencies give you python 2 yaml
12:23:55 <Rosstin> But you get ridable silver dragons and also silver dragon armour out of the deal
12:24:30 <Rosstin> Yeah Pinkbeast it's something like that, something to do with python2/3 and pip/3
12:26:21 <Rosstin> I don't know very much about python/bash so I'm a bit blind
12:26:25 <Rosstin> Installing commandline dependencies are like nethack to me. "Install python2.7 so you can install homebrew so you can install curl so you can install the commandline package you need"
12:27:28 <Rosstin> They have played us for absolute fools
12:36:21 <Rosstin> Hm, [foo|bar] doesn't seem to work for the welcome messages in miscname.txt for some reason
12:36:40 <Rosstin> Maybe something about the method that's printing the welcome message
12:40:13 <Rosstin> @_something_@ works fine though
14:01:42 <NotCheibriados> New branch created: pull/2485 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2485
14:01:42 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2485 * 0.29-a0-276-gf0f3088: Add many new welcome messages to miscname.txt. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 374+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f0f30888263a
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin Murphy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-268-g314987d: some speak for lodul, and grum 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 32+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/314987de5594
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin Murphy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-268-g7775392: Add some death and banishment quotes for Erica and Nikola. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 38+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/777539215e75
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin Murphy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-269-g66ecf5c: Add %%%% before Erica killed and Erica banished sections. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66ecf5cf3e34
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin Murphy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-270-g407c4a5: Remove some white space lines. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/407c4a594abb
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-272-gb2e3fd1: Add speech, death, and banishment lines for Maggie, Margery. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 44+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2e3fd1976db
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-274-gbf6604d: Merge branch 'rosstin-monspeak1' into rosstin-monspeak-3 10(3 days ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bf6604d7ea81
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-278-g0f631b8: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/rosstin-monspeak2' into rosstin-monspeak-3 10(3 days ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f631b838ce5
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-279-g1fb1144: Fix bad voiceline for Lodul. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1fb11441a9d9
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-280-g96f7a0b: fix weights 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96f7a0b6a232
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> 03U-DESKTOP-2MKRQ21\rosst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-272-gaa19483: Add speech, death, banishment quotes for Azrael, Jorgrun, & Sojobo. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 86+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aa194833e556
14:15:31 <NotCheibriados> ... and 3 more commits
14:22:22 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-288-g6666575: Remove personal todo messages from PR. 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/666657553b5a
14:30:23 <Discord|> <12e​bering> Rosstin: new PRs or force-pushing and updating existing PRs are both preferred workflows over closing one and opening a new one containing both the old one and new stuff
14:30:30 <Discord|> <12e​bering> happy to help if it's not clear how to do that
14:30:41 <Rosstin> Sorry about that
14:30:56 <Rosstin> I'll follow that procedure in the future
14:31:39 <Rosstin> Was hoping to simplify by having a smaller total number of similar PRs
14:33:47 <Discord|> <12e​bering> if you've got a theme of changes it's fine to batch them (so like all unique speech you think you're going to do for the next little bit is one PR, etc. etc.)
14:33:55 <Discord|> <12e​bering> it's not like we're on a deadline and corporate will be mad
14:35:58 <NotCheibriados> 03Rosstin02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2481 * 0.29-a0-289-g0f3ffdf: Add death and banishment lines for Grum and Lodul. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 38+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f3ffdfec5d2
14:50:21 <Rosstin> Is the max number of runes recorded somewhere in the game?
14:50:21 <Rosstin> As a variable/constant?
14:52:08 <Rosstin> ah, obtainable_runes I think
14:52:11 <geekosaur> there's NUM_RUNE_TYPES in item-prop-enum.h, but note that it includes two runes that only appear in sprints
14:52:34 <Rosstin> In dungeon.cc     you.obtainable_runes = 15;
14:53:55 <Rosstin> And doesn't look like it ever gets modified by you missing a rune. (Presumably that can happen for some of the extended runes, yes? If you enter a floor with a particular rune and leave without obtaining it.)
14:57:13 <geekosaur> can't happen, there are no runes in branches that expire
14:57:13 <Rosstin> Gotcha
14:57:13 <geekosaur> closest you get is abyss and pan will keep throwing rune vaults at you periodically until you get the rune or win without it
14:57:13 <Rosstin> Ah I see, perhaps I mistakenly believed you could "miss" a pan rune
14:57:13 <Rosstin> But you can skip one and come back for it
14:57:35 <geekosaur> there'ssome talk about changing pan so you don't get infinite levels/infinite retries, but nothing done yet
14:57:47 <Rosstin> I have to properly do extended someday so I comprehend it
15:01:47 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you can absolutely permanently lose pan runes
15:04:02 <geekosaur> oh really. seems a bit wrong with infinite pan
15:04:02 <Discord|> <12e​bering> the unique floors all only show up once
15:04:02 <Discord|> <12e​bering> this has been true since........
15:04:02 <Discord|> <12e​bering> time immemorial?
15:04:02 <Discord|> <12e​bering> the demonic rune used to be infinitely regettable
15:04:06 <Discord|> <12e​bering> !lg * max=urune
15:04:08 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> 14384147. rob the Farming Axe Maniac (L27 MDGl of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 20 runes on 2007-02-12 18:23:28, with 1664409 points after 220303 turns and 1d+17:35:06.
15:04:12 <Discord|> <12e​bering> o
15:04:17 <Discord|> <12e​bering> !lg * max=rune
15:04:18 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> Unknown field: rune
15:04:23 <Discord|> <12e​bering> !lg * max=nrune
15:04:24 <Discord|> <04C​erebot> 14384157. 78291 the Farming Infernalist (L27 NaFE of Zin), escaped with the Orb and 267 runes on 2010-05-18 16:15:12, with 6222453 points after 841428 turns and 3d+7:07:56.
15:04:25 <Rosstin> Didn't someone get like 700 runes
15:04:32 <Rosstin> Ah there we go
15:04:32 <Discord|> <12e​bering> that one
15:04:39 <Rosstin> Farming Infernalist?
15:05:13 <Rosstin> Farming is some title you got for... getting a lot of runes or something?
15:05:29 <Rosstin> Or having an absurd amount of xp/skill?
15:05:32 <geekosaur> taking lots of turns iirc
15:05:44 <geekosaur> isn't it over 200000?
15:05:46 <Rosstin> Ohhh right. I vaguely remember that
15:05:48 <Discord|> <12e​bering> farming is added by sequell if you're over 200k turns
15:06:07 <Rosstin> The zot timer is a much better solution
15:06:25 <Discord|> <12e​bering> you can still be farming w/the zot clock
15:06:33 <Discord|> <12e​bering> it stops ticking after you've done a zig
15:06:49 <Rosstin> That's interesting
15:13:21 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you also get a zot refill with every pan floor, as w normal floors
15:13:34 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> and abyss doesn’t tick the zot clock
15:27:22 -!- stella is now known as mermaid
15:47:10 <perryprog> re: monsters have perfect tracking while you're !invis: it seems like a monster's foe_memory is always updated without a check that they can actually see you?
15:47:27 <perryprog> !source mon-behv.cc:616
15:47:27 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc#L616
15:51:49 <Discord|> <05k​ate> that's how invis has always worked afaik and it's intended behaviour that you can't use it to just immediately make things lose track of you if they're already next to you
15:51:49 <perryprog> ... oh
15:51:49 <perryprog> That seems a bit weird to me from an intuition standpoint. If I need to get away from Scary Thing and I have a bottle labelled "potion of invisibility", that seems like a good item to use to get the heck away from Scary Thing.
15:52:34 <perryprog> Maybe that wasn't as important before, but it seems weird that as far as I can tell !invis has effectively no impact on a monster tracking
15:52:36 <perryprog> you
15:54:28 <twelwe> invis -> go round the corner    always works for me?
15:54:43 <Discord|> <05k​ate> if you have some stealth and/or break los you're extremely likely to be able to get away yeah
15:55:14 <perryprog> Doesn't seem to twelwe
15:55:22 <perryprog> !source _guess_invis_foe_pos
15:55:22 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc#L38
15:55:31 <Discord|> <05k​ate> you just can't use it to immediately make things lose track of you if they're next to you, luckily you still get an extremely high offense/defense boost against them anyway
15:55:35 <perryprog> in fact, I can't even get _guess_invis_foe_pos to be called
15:55:40 <twelwe> sure it does. you can even invis dig diagonally away
15:56:46 <perryprog> I mean I am testing it right now—with low stealth for the record—and the orc is tracking me as if I was fully visible
15:58:39 <twelwe> stealth below 5 is basically useless
15:58:39 <perryprog> I dunno. I always figured !invis was supposed to be a near-guaranteed way to open a gap (somewhat) regardless of stealth, and that seems more important now with no random energy. I'm just surprised is all.
15:58:39 <twelwe> i usually run with at least 8, and have done invis->serpent lash escapes millions of times
15:58:43 <Rosstin> Interesting, how is serpent lash involved?
15:58:52 <perryprog> Two free moves
15:59:03 <twelwe> two diagonal moves usually
15:59:05 <Rosstin> Ohh the Wu Jian ability, gotcha
15:59:21 <Rosstin> I was thinking of Snakebite for some reason
15:59:48 <twelwe> you can also serpent lash on one side of a door, close the door on the other side, and monsters have a good chance to get lost
16:00:30 <twelwe> there are a million ways to break los but chugging invis isn't exactly one
16:02:00 <perryprog> Well if it's intended then I guess /shrug
16:12:21 <Rosstin> What would be a good way to determine the players best skill from stairs.cc? I am going to get to the bottom of this eventually...
16:15:30 <Rosstin> Ah! I got it
17:08:18 <Yermak> Mnoleg summons eyes with the only message "Mnoleg gestures". FR: make it be more elaborate.
17:51:44 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> reasonable
17:51:53 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i think that invis is a good mechanic but that it's unfortunately unintuitive to players
17:51:59 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> it's very strong, but players expect it to be even stronger
18:03:30 <perryprog> is good superpower!
18:12:12 <Rosstin> There are some incredible custom titles in skills.cc. Love the thought that went into these.
18:12:48 <Rosstin> else if (species == SP_VINE_STALKER && skill_rank == 5 && god == GOD_NEMELEX_XOBEH)
18:12:48 <Rosstin> result = "Black Lotus";
18:14:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> heh heh, those were relatively recent
18:14:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> fan suggestions
18:14:43 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> they're a little self indulgent but i think they can be funny
20:48:34 <twelwe> ive heard there is a rc option to start the game in the skills screen - is there a way to start there with every skill turned off? i went through https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=2891&type=bug didn't find what i was looking for
21:10:19 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> no
21:15:06 <twelwe> ok thanks pleasingfungus i think i'll make a monster macro